Newly diagnosed…

Hi there,
My cat's blood glucose was 517 and urine glucose was 1000. She is 15 and would be very difficult to treat with blood samples and injections. Some cats just don’t do well with such things. There are no ketones indicated in the lab work. The symptoms were significant weight loss, excessive thirst, and very profuse urination.

My basic and direct question is, how long can she last in this state? Is she suffering? Does the negative ketone level mean anything re an immediate prognosis? I just want to keep her comfortable and let her go when it is the best for her.

Thank you for any advice.

Msmriizd

 

Please reconsider trying to treat the diabetes. Most of us here thought our cats couldn't be wrangled into accepting the food change, tests and shots. The mods can guide you extremely well. There's no need for your kitty to feel uncomfortable, and we can help!

 

Oh, thank you for your kind words. I just can’t do this for a very good reason with no disrespect to others here who are intensely and lovingly caring for their kitties. I had one cat with dry eye which involved twice a day medication. Lost him 2/2022 due to this condition evolving into ocular cancer. I had another cat with restrictive cardiomyopathy which led to serious kidney failure due to the medications needed to treat the cardiac issues. Lost her 12/2022 after 3+ years as she had developed asthma. So, I am a bit burned out. This particular cat with diabetes has had a lot of problems with using the litter box since I first fostered her, too. I have made adjustments and forgiven a lot of house soiling. Thank you for your help!

 

@msmriizd
Hi where do you live maybe we can find someone who will take her

Please contact Diabetic Cats In Need they might be able to help your kitty
https://dcin.dreamhosters.com/rehoming/
Please e mail them

 

I am on the east side of Cleveland OH. Thank you for your kind response!

 

Please reach out to Diabetic Cats in Need ,

 

You might also like to add to your title NEED TO REHOME
Look to the right and you will see Thread Tools tap on that ,then tap in Edit Title add it then tap Save

 

While you are waiting to see if someone can take her please switch her to a low carb diet and feed food such as fancy feast pates.
I’m glad she had no ketones in the urine but that doesn’t mean they won’t appear if she is not getting insulin. I would get a bottle of Ketostix from Walmart or a pharmacy and test the urine every couple of days to check no ketones are appearing.
Please do contact Diabetic Cats in Need because she can’t be left indefinitely with no insulin without something happening.

 

Thank you. I looked up Ketostix and they are widely available. But this is a problem. Says fresh urine. She urinates on puppy pads, flattened cardboard boxes, the cement floor in my basement, on throw rugs I have designated for that, etc. These are longstanding habits but of course it got worse with the diabetes. Could I possibly press a strip into a wet puppy pad?

 

Thank you again. Someone in the Facebook group suggested a couple of dry foods because that is all she will eat. I am trying Dr. Elsey's Cleanprotein and I did see her eat a few pieces of it just now. Off topic sort of—- I find it interesting that so many use Fancy Feast pate for their sugar kitties. I have mostly used it for my cats that will eat canned food. But Maia my diabetic will only eat kibble.

 

Thank you for responding to me. I don’t like to be a naysayer, but my girl Maia would not do well with any changes. In 2019 she was hospitalized for the isotope treatment for hyperthyroid. It was successful, but she would not eat for a week plus, neither in the hospital nor at home, she was so upset. I do think she was abused before her rescue from the streets.

 

I would at least try pressing it into a wet puppy pad and follow the directions on the box

 

That makes sense and can’t hurt really! Thank you!

 

I will be picking up the test strips in a couple of hours. Thanks again for the guidance!

 

Oh you are welcome

 

Hi have you ever contacted DCIN ?
@msmriizd

 

Hi. No I haven’t. I don’t want to disturb her safe world here. It is wonderful that people are willing to take on this kind of illness. She would not do well anywhere else. When she had thyroid treatment in 2019 which involved a three day stay in the hospital, she was so upset that she didn’t eat for 10 days. She is a very “different and nervous” kitty. I so appreciate your caring about her, but I am making her life comfortable and familiar in my own way. Thank you and take care!

I know it sounds as if her not eating was dangerous re fatty liver, because I was extremely concerned. I kept both the referring vet and the thyroid vet busy with constant phone calls. In fact, the specialist let me have his cell phone number.

A LITTLE LATER…. I did look at DCIN and the requirement is the cat needs to eat canned food. As much as I’ve tried, and I have always fed my other cats canned foods, Maia would not ever eat canned food. Of course I wouldn’t want to starve her to find out if she would eventually eat canned, but I think that would be torture for her and cruelty on my part. Thank you again for caring! Maia sends purrs and meows!

 

You're too burned out to care for her? It isn't her fault that she got sick. You were willing to treat your other cats but this one ... meh, not so much. Giving insulin shots is actually easier than much of what you've already done.

This is a community that believes in treating diabetic cats, with experienced caregivers who will help you every step of the way. What you will not find here is support for willfully allowing any cat to suffer a slow agonizing death from a disease that is very treatable.

Just so you know, untreated diabetes is always fatal. Your cat could easily develop diabetic ketoacidosis, a condition in which toxins build up in the blood. The cat will become lethargic, nauseous, severely dehydrated and progressively weaker. She will vomit what little food she does eat because she will be unable to process it and will slowly starve to death. Eventually, she will experience panicked rapid breathing, her organs will start shutting down; she may have seizures and will slip into a coma and die. She will suffer. So you need to ask yourself how much you are willing to put her through before you euthanize her.

If you are unable/ unwilling to care for her, at least give her the opportunity to find a home with someone who will give her a chance.

 

I agree 100% with what you have said !

 

I haven't posted in a while. But I 100% agree with you. I agree with everything in this post

To the OP; please reach out if you need help caring for your cat. I'd be willing to try to find a home for them with some rescues that I volunteer at. I'm sure other members would also do the same. There is no shame in it. It can be a burden, and sometimes we assume that others are like us and at a place where we can provide that level of care. Please reach out if you need help. We'd all prefer that to the alternative (which is almost certainly an incredibly painful, terrifying death that no INTELLIGENT animal, let alone one which surely loves you, should EVER have to go through).

But to be clear; if you choose to not give treatment, she will die. A slow, painful, and unnecessary death. I firmly believe that no animal deserves that. Please; work with us. Let us help you! I'm not being judgmental, I actually just want to help!

@msmriizd

 

I just want to update yall, OP and I have been talking through direct message and they are interested in starting at a very low dose to prevent hypo and they are going to see if their vet agrees. I introduced the idea of a Libre as well. I did not advise a dose or anything like that that, but OP was discouraged by a few comments and was going to delete their account here . I'd be happy to post my messages so show I didn't break the rules and such, but like you all i was worried for the owner and kitty. I think with all the experts here, we can agree that you can find a way for insulin to work for this family where BG checks may be very difficult

 

I don't think you broke the rules at all. We are all just trying to help her and wouldn't want to see her kitty die .
I hope she doesn't delete her account
@Katsallday

 

@msmriizd
Please don't delete your account we all just want to try and help you

 

Awww, I’m not going away after all! I have a call into the veterinarian regarding next steps, but she is part time and will be in touch on Monday. I will update here when I know what we are doing going forward. Miss Maia does have quite a reputation and presence at the vet clinic and howls loudly enough to be heard in the next county, so this will be very interesting.

Please know I would never let any cat get to the point where it was suffering as graphically described above. I live 3.7 miles from an excellent specialty veterinary hospital that has an ER open 24/7. And my veterinarian is 3.9 miles, same direction. They are very good about accommodating pets during office hour emergencies, too.

I have been through felines with cancer multiple times, kidney failure, cardiomyopathy twice, etc., and I have never ignored them nor did a cat go without medical care. One time, unfortunately, my cat had a bad reaction to a dental cleaning and died right in front of me which haunts me to this day even though it was in 1992. I still don't believe it, but the vet (I quit going to this place) claims it was hypertrophic cardiomyopathy upon necropsy.

In the meantime, I’m feeding a low carb food which she seems to like, weighing her, testing urine for ketones and soon for glucose once the test strips arrive. They are just for pets and the Amazon reviews are decent.

I know Maia would give all of you a paws up if she could read! Thanks!

 

I am happy you are staying
It just breaks my heart when they howl at the vets. You are very sweet!
You have been through a lot with your other kitties. I'm so sorry you had to see your kitty pass away right in front of you.
Did you order the Alpha Trak meter?
If so I know the strips are very expensive. Most of us use human meter since that's what our numbers are based on.
If you ever want to switch to a human meter I can suggest one
When you start to test I can give you some links about testing that will help
Can I ask you your name ?
If you want to know which is the best insulin to ask for just as us.
We can give you more information about other things after you see your vet

 

You know what, I had a cat go into acute kidney failure after a dental extraction and she died days later. I thought it was just something the vet missed but maybe there is something causing it? She was only 4! Hm

 

If you ask me, the vet used too much anesthetic and of course in your case it affected the kidneys while mine was the heart. Last dental, the excellent vet I have now did a heart muscle test as well as the usual blood panel to make sure he could handle the procedure. Mine with the failed dental was only 6 by the way.

 

By the way Maia is adorable
I lost Tyler's brother 2 years ago to kidney disease, he was my heart kitty

 

Hi. Name is Sharon. Thank you for your kind words.
I thought the meters were like $20 @ Walmart or something. More to be explored, but for now I’m leaving it up to guidance from the vet and what I think Maia can handle, too.

 

Hi Sharon, okey dokey , just post if you ever need help

 

That makes a lot of sense, and it's something we didn't even consider! That cat was my husband's soul kitty. He was truly devastated. It's so hard to trust vets when things like that happen isn't it. I still go to that vet as they are more knowledgeable on diabetes, but it's a hospital with multiple vets there. I will never consider surgery there or using that one vet again.

 

Oh no, kidney is just so difficult in my opinion. I feel more in control of diabetes by being able to give insulin. I wish there was a shot for kidney disease

 

Me too , I did everything I could for Perry, binders, fluids, shots for anemia, all kinds of supplements. He was as 12 yrs old when he passed. I love Tyler like crazy but Perry was my heart kitty. He loved me like no other cat I ever had.
I still miss him so. Tyler isn't very affectionate , brat, only sycks up to me when he wants food lol. But sometimes he wants me to pick him up and rock him back and forth lol then he will turn his head and lick my nose and forehead , then sometimes he'll bite my nose, not hard though. He's a strange boy

 

I’ve lost one to kidney disease for sure, and the most recent one, in December, had restrictive cardiomyopathy plus kidney disease, and then developed asthma so I am not entirely sure what made her so very slowly decline at age 15 1/2, but she did outlive her prognosis plus snapped back so many times. I even had euthanasia appointments made and broken many times! I don’t know about where you live, but we have at least two home euthanasia resources here, A Gentle Farewell and Laps of Love. I have at least one of those on speed dial! :-(

Ooooh, I am sorry Perry was your heart kitty. It must really hurt. I know I still grieve for all of mine to this day, in different ways.

 

Tyler is still alive lol he's the one with diabetes but has been in remission since 1-24-21 knock on wood with the help of all the experienced members here
Perry was my heart kitty who passed with kidney disease

I actually never looked for home euthanasia , I'm in New Jersey , I'm curious now and going to look

@msmriizd

 

Thank you very much. I will be consulting with her vet on Monday.

 

Yes, Laps of Love is a national network I believe, but I don’t think Gentle Farewell is. It’s a wonderful gift, but I do have compassionate vets so I have let them euthanize so far.

I did notice that I made a mistake in the Perry/Tyler name and corrected it! Oops!

 

No problem at all

 

Most caretakers here use Walmart's Relion Premier line of meters, or the previous generation of Relion Prime meter or even the much older Relion Confirm meters. I have two Premier meters and one Prime meter for my there diabetic cats. The Premier Classic is $9 nand strios are $9 for 50 strips. On the other hand strips for an AlphaTrak meter are more than $1 each. Thus do not let your vet talk you into an AlphaTrak meter.

 

Excellent advice! It sounds like the cost of razor blades. The holder is cheap enough but the cost of the blades is a killer! I told my husband he could grow a beard to his knees but he is not too favorable to the idea! The AlphaTrak meter alone is over $50, wow! The AccuChek is pretty reasonable at Walgreens, but I don’t know about the strips. Of course the insulin is pricey so maybe I will find a deal there too. We shall see of course. Thanks.

 

So happy to see that you're going to be sticking around. There are a lot of people here who will have your back. Listen to them because collectively, they have more experience than most vets. I wish only the best for you and your sweet girl.

 

I agree. Learned so much about the best way to medicate my now-departed cat with heart/kidney disease with gel caps, but of course the medication and dosage was up to the vets because I believe in science. Thus, I am 5x Covid vaccinated! LOL. Thank you for your message!

 

Hi Sharon, lantus is an excellent insulin, but expensive in the US that's why most members get the generic glargine
Here is some info
Check this out
https://www.goodrx.com/insulin-glargine?dosage=five-3ml-prefilled-pens-of-100-units-ml&form=carton&label_override=insulin glargine&quantity=1
The 5 pens will last about a year, we use the pens just like a vial, you would just insert the syringe it the gray rubber stopper on the pen and draw out your insulin
Its generic lantus



Or this one also

I see some members will call CVS, Rite Aid, Costco, Walgreen's, to get the price for 5 pens
Posted by another member
One members posted this
. I paid $175 for a box of 5 pens at Walmart pharmacy, but GoodRX coupon says you can get it for around $90 if you have a Rite Aid pharmacy near you.

We don't use the pen because you can only adjust the dose by full units, we adjust the dose by 0.25 units at a time. Are the U-100 syringes you already have do they have half unit markings


Just take the cap off the pen and use a U100 syringes and pull the insulin out of the pen!




If you happen to get the generic lantus you will need U-100 syringes with half unit markings
You can get the syringes with half unit markings at a Walmart. Their ReliOn Brand syringes of 0.3 cc (30 unit) capacity come with half unit markings. Cost $12.58 for a box of 100
This is what the packaging looks like: either box
They won't say it half unit on the box but the are . open then and look before you leave the store, can't be ordered on line , need to go into the store
:


Or these
https://www.adwdiabetes.com/product/1316/surecomfort-u100-syringes-half-unit-31g-3-10cc-5-16in-100ct

10% off your next order!

You will need a script , tell them what you want and they will contact your vet to fax a script over, give your vet a heads up, ask for refills
We use the half unit markings because we adjust doses by 0.25 units

 

U-100 syringes half unit markings


Oh what is the name of the meter you ordered?

 

Great info and thank you so much! I am sure I will be referring to this many times. My vet's practice is very willing to help with orders from Chewy, Walmart, etc., rather than sell things to me at their prices which are of course understandably higher. And I even heard that some vets won’t allow pet owners to give subQ. Mine arranged for me to be TRAINED by a vet tech! Whatever! Thanks again.

PS I have not ordered a meter. I’m waiting until I get all the info and how-tos from the vet. I’ll probably get one of the meters that you and others mentioned though since it seems the most logical. I know… avoid AlphaTrak.

 

Sounds like you have a very good vets practice that you go too.
My vet also let me give subQ at home.
I used to use the Alpha Trak in the beginning but the strips got to expensive , like 54.00 for only 50
Plus you can't run into a store and pick them up
Like members here have said they use the Relion Premier Classic from Walmart 9 bucks
17.88 for 100 test strips. At least you can run into the store and pick them up
My vet had no problem with me using a human meter
The Accu Check meter you mentioned was a reasonable price but the test strips weren't so cheap for how many you get
It was 11.00 for only 25 strips and you do go through them quick
Plus it depends on which Accu Check meter you buy

Well I think I bombarded you with enough info for now
So if you have any other questions after you see your vet on Monday just ask ok

 

Yes, that is what I found about the AccuCheck when I actually priced them. This is all great advice! Thanks!
And, yes I will have questions I’m sure. Thanks again!

 

Whine whine, but one time I went to CVS with a paper script that my veterinarian wrote out for Lactated Ringers Solution because GoodRX showed a good price on it and the pharmacy was like, duh we don’t carry this. I suppose insulin is different because so many people need it. Just a reaction and I wonder if others had the same problem.

 

I believe Lantus is available at human pharmacies I think Costco is one of the cheaper options, but I'm not positive on that. My Lantus was donated to me by a generous and wonderful member here whose kitty crossed the rainbow bridge

 

Looks like RiteAid has the lowest price right now on GoodRX. They aren’t far from me. The other prices were a lot higher. I even tried WalmartPetRX and their prices were pretty high, and Chewy's too.
Of course you of all people deserve a gift of the insulin since you take care of so many needy and medically compromised cats and dogs! I’m so happy to hear that! Hugs!

 

Did you talk to the head pharmacist or to a assistant or technician? LRS is not routinely stocked at pharmacies except maybe plastic bottle used for pouring, not administering via line (e.g., subQ fluids). Thus they would have b ordered and you will likely have to order a case of them. Also, you will likely have to provide a NDC number (National Drug Code) for the bags. There is a different NDCs for LRS for each manufacturer and then for each bag size and other variations, like being DEHP-free. http://www.zzcat.com/CRF/supplies/ndc.htm

 

Thank you for the info. Unfortunately the cat I was using it for has gone to the rainbow bridge. However, I found a place online that had the LRS at reasonable prices and just continued with that. Of course, one never knows as I have another cat with kidney disease and he might eventually require the subQ fluids. But I appreciate your details and will make use of them if I come across that again.