Newly diagnosed

James Little

James Little

Member Since 2020
Hello,
I have a 13 year old kitty (Jada) that was recently diagnosed with diabetes. She was prescribed Lantus, 1 unit twice a day. I ordered a Alpha Trak glucometer. After the 2nd day I tested her blood sugar and it was very low. Hypoglycemia low. She recovered fortunately the next day after I gave her syrup and treats. I stopped injections for the next day.

I restarted now diving giving her 1/2 unit twice a day. Her sugar was still going too low. Not as bad but in the 50s. Now we are down to 1/4 unit twice a day. Now when I test her before eating in the morning her level is in the 200s . After eating she gets a 1/4 unit. I checked her tonight and her sugar was 54. Vet told me if her level is under 80 to skip the next shot. This happened 2 days in a row.

Cat is eating DM cat food. She is eating well. Her urine output is back to normal and she is not drinking as much water as she was before insulin. I feel she is benefiting from it but I am flying blind here.

It seems all I do is poke and stick the cat. Since all this started she has been sneezing several times an hour. I am thinking stress related.

Any advice or thoughts on any of this would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks......

Jim
 
first of all breath and trust yourself.. if you trust yourself your cat will ass well. As for food I would not recommend prescription food as it is over priced and loaded with carbs. What many of us use is fancy feast pate or classic, that and friskies pate..I have never heard of a cat using lantus and only getting 1 shot.. It is normally done bid.. 2x's a day as the cycle is 12 hrs.. there about. Also I would recommend that you test, feed and shoot while their nose is in the plate, then retest at the +2 hr then at the+6 hr. What are you thinking of following the TR tight regulation or the start low go slow method
 
Hi, Jim. Welcome!

It is great to hear you are home testing Jada.

A couple of things you could do first that will make it a lot easier for people to offer you some thoughts and advice.

Do you have a spreadsheet with the blood glucose numbers you have collected thus far? Without that data, we won't be able to answer your question. Everyone uses the same spreadsheet on this board, and if you look at our signatures, you will see we all have a link to spreadsheets for our cats, so it can easily be found.
Here is how to set it up:
FDMB Spreadsheet Instructions
Here is how to read it:
Understanding the Spreadsheet Grid.

If you need help setting it up, just ask. People will help if you need.
 
Focus on doing the spreadsheet first. Second thing after you do a spreadsheet would be setting up a signature. It is all of Jada's pertinent details "at a glance", for the volunteer helpers on here who are trying to help so many cats and their caregivers:
  • On the left, under Settings, Click on Signature.
    • There is a limit of two lines which may include two links; you may separate pieces with commas, dashes, | etc. This is where you paste the link for your spreadsheet, once it is set up.
    • Add any other text, such as
    • Caregiver & kitty's name (optional)
    • DX: Date
    • Name of Insulin
    • Name of your meter
    • Diet: "LC wet" or "dry food" or "combo"
    • Dosing: TR or SLGS or Custom (if applicable)
    • DKA or other recent health issue (if applicable)
    • Acro, IAA, or Cushings (if applicable)
    • Spreadsheet link. Please put the signature link on the bottom line of your signature information, on its own, so it is easy to find.
    • Please do not put any information about your location in the signature for security reasons. If you wish to add your country location, please add it to your profile.
Be sure to click the 'Save Changes' button at the bottom.
 
Hi Jim, welcome!

Can you tell us a bit more about how Jada was diagnosed? It sounds like she may have had increased urination, any other symptoms? What does she weigh? Did the vet run any tests that you can share? It is curious that she is reacting so quickly to the insulin, 1u is a good starting dose. It can be often the case that cats who have symptomatic hypos are more sensitive to insulin for some days after.

Is the DM cat food canned or dry?

That test of 54 tonight, when was that in terms of the last shot? If it is the preshot test, please do not give any insulin. It is not often the case that cats react so quickly to Lantus, so my last question (for now) is can you share a pic of the insulin needle and what you consider to be 1/4u? It has been the case, not often but sometimes that people misread the lines when they first start out.

Sorry, lots of questions.
 
Welcome to the best place you never thought you would be … and another question, sorry.

Does Jada have any pre-existing conditions? I'm wondering mainly if the diabetes was steroid induced.
 
tiffmaxee said:
Those numbers are way to low for an AT meter. Makes me wonder about diagnosis. Did they base the DX on one test when stressed at the vet? Were you feeding dry food?some cats become diet controlled quickly.
Click to expand...

Yes one blood test. I have to say this cat totally freaks out going to the Vet. She was so stressed that after she came home she was panting.

We were feeding her Friskies Gravy Sensations (2) 3 oz per day and she had Whiskas dry out all the time.
 
Christie & Maverick said:
Hi Jim, welcome!

Can you tell us a bit more about how Jada was diagnosed? It sounds like she may have had increased urination, any other symptoms? What does she weigh? Did the vet run any tests that you can share? It is curious that she is reacting so quickly to the insulin, 1u is a good starting dose. It can be often the case that cats who have symptomatic hypos are more sensitive to insulin for some days after.

Is the DM cat food canned or dry?

That test of 54 tonight, when was that in terms of the last shot? If it is the preshot test, please do not give any insulin. It is not often the case that cats react so quickly to Lantus, so my last question (for now) is can you share a pic of the insulin needle and what you consider to be 1/4u? It has been the case, not often but sometimes that people misread the lines when they first start out.

Sorry, lots of questions.
Click to expand...

Symptoms:
Increased urination
Increased appetite
Weight loss
Small cataracts

Labs from one visit showed blood sugar of 387

Weight is 10.88 pound

DM is both wet and dry

Blood Sugar of 54 was 12 hours after last shot. I did not give her another shot.

Plunger is at 1/4 unit
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Normally the syringes we use for Lantus are BD 3/10ml, that's what I am struggling with. I think yours are 1cc=1ml, so your 1/4 isn't the same on your syringe...*I think*, that's what I'm trying to double check.
 
Ok, I've chatted with Kel @Red & Rover (GA) offline, and we both think those syringes are measuring 1ml (1cc), so each major line would be 0.1ml. Problem is, that 0.1ml equates to 10u. So I think if I read this correctly, your 1/4 dose is actually 4u on this syringe.

We looked at the following for reference...
https://www.petplace.com/article/do...onvert-u-100-insulin-in-units-to-milliliters/

Get yourself some insulin syringes with 3/10 ml capacity, whatever length (I like 8mm) 31gauge. And have a chat with whomever gave you those syringes, IMHO
 
Going by this chart:
https://www.petplace.com/article/do...onvert-u-100-insulin-in-units-to-milliliters/
How to Convert Insulin Units to Milliliters (ml) Using U-100 Insulin
Although matching insulin and syringes is ideal, on occasion, an owner will find themselves with insulin and syringes that don’t match. Below is a conversion chart to help those who need to convert units of insulin to ml. You will find the amount you need to use with the conversion next to it.
To administer this amount
of U-100 insulin Draw to this level
in a 1 ml syringe
1 unit 0.01mls
2 units 0.02 mls (2.5 units would be 0.025 ml)
3 units 0.03 mls
4 units 0.04 mls
5 units 0.05 mls
6 units 0.06 mls
7 units 0.07 mls
8 units 0.08 mls
9 units 0.09 mls
10 units 0.1 mls​

Your cat was overdosed because the vet gave you the wrong syringe. The vet should have given you an insulin syringe, not a tuberculin syringe. Thank goodness you were hometesting. You just saved your cat's life.

Also, a diagnosis of diabetes cannot be based on one reading on a stressed cat in the vet's office. At the very least, a couple of tests should have been taken over a series of days. And then a fructosamine test is done which shows an average of the blood glucose over the past couple of weeks.

The Friskies Gravy Sensations are 14-15% carbs (the border between medium carbs and high carbs). The Beef & Chicken in Gravy is 20% carbs.
The Whiskas dry is high carb. Just look at the ingredient list:
CHICKEN BY-PRODUCT MEAL, GROUND YELLOW CORN, WHEAT, CORN GLUTEN MEAL, SOYBEAN MEAL, ANIMAL FAT (PRESERVED WITH MIXED TOCOPHEROLS), PORK MEAT & BONE MEAL, NATURAL FLAVOUR, CHICKEN, WHEAT FLOUR, BREWERS RICE,​

These foods would also have affected the reading at the vet.
The DM foods are not much better. The DM wet food is considered low carb. The DM dry food is not. Return it all to the vet for a refund. The company guarantees a refund.

I doubt that your cat was diabetic in the first place.

DO NOT GIVE ANY INSULIN. Not even if your vet tells you too.

Let's do an experiment by changing your cat to low carb food (LC) and continue to test.

Pick up the food for two hours before feeding in the morning. This makes sure that the test is no carb influenced. After the 2 hours, take a test. On an AlphaTrak, normal is between 68-120.
Get a couple of tests in throughout the day. Same 12 hours later. Pick up the food.

Many people here use Fancy Feast Classic Pate or Friskies Classic Pate. It must be the pate. If your cat does not like the pates, here is a link to a Food Chart researched and put together by a vey reputable vet. You are looking for foods under 10% carbs.
If your cat is a dry food addict, there are only 2 dry foods in the US that are considered low carb. Dr Elsey's Clean Protein and Young Again.

Sorry for the very long response. We can help you keep your cat safe. And again, so grateful you were hometesting. :bighug:
 
Christie & Maverick said:
Ok, I've chatted with Kel @Red & Rover (GA) offline, and we both think those syringes are measuring 1ml (1cc), so each major line would be 0.1ml. Problem is, that 0.1ml equates to 10u. So I think if I read this correctly, your 1/4 dose is actually 4u on this syringe.

We looked at the following for reference...
https://www.petplace.com/article/do...onvert-u-100-insulin-in-units-to-milliliters/

Get yourself some insulin syringes with 3/10 ml capacity, whatever length (I like 8mm) 31gauge. And have a chat with whomever gave you those syringes, IMHO
Click to expand...

So I have been giving her too much. That makes sense of the last few days. Tomorrow we are taking the syringes back to CVS and get the correct ones.
 
I agree with @Red & Rover (GA) I suspect your cat might not even be diabetic. Your vet should have run a fructosamine test which is an average bg over the past two weeks. The initial blood test should not be run less than two hours after eating.
 
Red & Rover (GA) said:
Going by this chart:
https://www.petplace.com/article/do...onvert-u-100-insulin-in-units-to-milliliters/
How to Convert Insulin Units to Milliliters (ml) Using U-100 Insulin
Although matching insulin and syringes is ideal, on occasion, an owner will find themselves with insulin and syringes that don’t match. Below is a conversion chart to help those who need to convert units of insulin to ml. You will find the amount you need to use with the conversion next to it.
To administer this amount
of U-100 insulin Draw to this level
in a 1 ml syringe
1 unit 0.01mls
2 units 0.02 mls (2.5 units would be 0.025 ml)
3 units 0.03 mls
4 units 0.04 mls
5 units 0.05 mls
6 units 0.06 mls
7 units 0.07 mls
8 units 0.08 mls
9 units 0.09 mls
10 units 0.1 mls​

Your cat was overdosed because the vet gave you the wrong syringe. The vet should have given you an insulin syringe, not a tuberculin syringe. Thank goodness you were hometesting. You just saved your cat's life.

Also, a diagnosis of diabetes cannot be based on one reading on a stressed cat in the vet's office. At the very least, a couple of tests should have been taken over a series of days. And then a fructosamine test is done which shows an average of the blood glucose over the past couple of weeks.

The Friskies Gravy Sensations are 14-15% carbs (the border between medium carbs and high carbs). The Beef & Chicken in Gravy is 20% carbs.
The Whiskas dry is high carb. Just look at the ingredient list:
CHICKEN BY-PRODUCT MEAL, GROUND YELLOW CORN, WHEAT, CORN GLUTEN MEAL, SOYBEAN MEAL, ANIMAL FAT (PRESERVED WITH MIXED TOCOPHEROLS), PORK MEAT & BONE MEAL, NATURAL FLAVOUR, CHICKEN, WHEAT FLOUR, BREWERS RICE,​

These foods would also have affected the reading at the vet.
The DM foods are not much better. The DM wet food is considered low carb. The DM dry food is not. Return it all to the vet for a refund. The company guarantees a refund.

I doubt that your cat was diabetic in the first place.

DO NOT GIVE ANY INSULIN. Not even if your vet tells you too.

Let's do an experiment by changing your cat to low carb food (LC) and continue to test.

Pick up the food for two hours before feeding in the morning. This makes sure that the test is no carb influenced. After the 2 hours, take a test. On an AlphaTrak, normal is between 68-120.
Get a couple of tests in throughout the day. Same 12 hours later. Pick up the food.

Many people here use Fancy Feast Classic Pate or Friskies Classic Pate. It must be the pate. If your cat does not like the pates, here is a link to a Food Chart researched and put together by a vey reputable vet. You are looking for foods under 10% carbs.
If your cat is a dry food addict, there are only 2 dry foods in the US that are considered low carb. Dr Elsey's Clean Protein and Young Again.

Sorry for the very long response. We can help you keep your cat safe. And again, so grateful you were hometesting. :bighug:
Click to expand...

Wow! We are going to try the experiment with diet only. Thank you for all this information. Is it possible the kitty was displaying symptoms of diabetes because of the high carb diet we were feeding her?
 
James Little said:
Wow! We are going to try the experiment with diet only. Thank you for all this information. Is it possible the kitty was displaying symptoms of diabetes because of the high carb diet we were feeding her?
Click to expand...
There are two reasons.
1. In quite a few cats, their blood glucose rises at the vet because of the stress.
2. High carb food would make the blood glucose number at the vet higher.

By switching completely to low carb food, you are taking both of these reasons out of the frame.
 
Was a urinalysis done as well ? Do you have a copy of the labs? I like your idea to feed tge low carb diet and keep testing. If Amat’s pancreas is working the bg will come down 2-3 hours after eating. So it’s a good idea to test in the morning before eating. If it’s higher than 120, test test 2-3 hours after. Do this morning and night. You will soon get a clear picture.
 
Red & Rover (GA) said:
There are two reasons.
1. In quite a few cats, their blood glucose rises at the vet because of the stress.
2. High carb food would make the blood glucose number at the vet higher.

By switching completely to low carb food, you are taking both of these reasons out of the frame.
Click to expand...

By symptoms I am referring to the symptoms that prompted me to take her to the vet in the first place, increased urination, increased appetite, increased thirst and weight loss.

We will keep you posted on the results.

Thanks again.
 
tiffmaxee said:
Was a urinalysis done as well ? Do you have a copy of the labs? I like your idea to feed tge low carb diet and keep testing. If Amat’s pancreas is working the bg will come down 2-3 hours after eating. So it’s a good idea to test in the morning before eating. If it’s higher than 120, test test 2-3 hours after. Do this morning and night. You will soon get a clear picture.
Click to expand...

We never did get the actual results of anything. The took blood and urine. Due to covid we were not allowed in. We had to wait in the car. It was 100% contactless and in this case paperless.
 
tiffmaxee said:
Please call your vet’s office and ask them to email copies of the labs. Do you know if they were run there or sent to a lab? I’m curious to see if there was any sugar in his urine for one thing.
Click to expand...

Just sent the email and I will call them tomorrow. I believe there was sugar in her urine. I will know for sure once I have the labs. I am not sure what lad they were sent to.
 
You're getting great advice from everyone here, so I won't add to that. But I just wanted to let you know that it's definitely possible for a diabetic cat to go into remission just through a diet change. That's what happened with my Oberon in December- switched from dry food to Fancy Feast pate, and within two weeks he was off insulin and in remission. But it sounds like you need to determine whether Jada is even diabetic in the first place. Fructosamine test (mentioned above) will help with that- it measures long-term blood glucose levels.
 
James Little said:
Does Hypo mean Hypoglycemia?
Click to expand...
Yes, that's what that means..

Proceed with caution James.

You received some excellent advice for these folks on the forum! Your vet has made a common mistake - I'm afraid to say - as most vets don't understand much about feline diabetes and often make these types of mistakes. I don't even want to start to tell you how often I've read of people doing exactly what they were told to do by their vets and ended up in the ER with their cats unresponsive - hypoglycemic to the point of having to be put on IV glucose - and then get ready for a huge bill. And sometimes the end isn't what you want to hear about :(

Please, please take a day or three to absorb what you've read here. Get the supplies that you've been told to get here...personally I don't bother with the AlphaTrak due to the expense of the strips. Get yourself a human glucometer and matching strips when you're at the drug store today - I like to go to Walmart because they have the best price on all that stuff - inexpensive glucometers, strips, lancets and syringes...I use the Relion's 30 IUs 15/64ths (very short needle)...

Don't bother trying to return the syringes you have, they won't accept returns on any diabetic supplies, for any reason. You might want to donate them ... but the store won't take them back....

Please post again today - a new condo - to let us know how you're both doing! And Welcome!!!
 
Last edited:
Red & Rover (GA) said:
@James Little How is everything today, James?
Did you manage to test?
Click to expand...

I did not test today. I am going to let Jada stabilize from all the over-dosing and testing for a day or two. I will restart on Friday or Saturday.
Here’s what happened. The pharmacy ran out of the U100 syringes. They just decided to give us a substitute. The Vet called them this morning and ripped them a new one as did my wife when she went there.
I now have her labs as well.

I am lucky the cat didn’t die through all of this.

I am lucky I found this forum.
 
Sue and Luci said:
Yes, that's what that means..

Proceed with caution James.

You received some excellent advice for these folks on the forum! Your vet has made a common mistake - I'm afraid to say - as most vets don't understand much about feline diabetes and often make these types of mistakes. I don't even want to start to tell you how often I've read of people doing exactly what they were told to do by their vets and ended up in the ER with their cats unresponsive - hypoglycemic to the point of having to be put on IV glucose - and then get ready for a huge bill. And sometimes the end isn't what you want to hear about :(

Please, please take a day or three to absorb what you've read here. Get the supplies that you've been told to get here...personally I don't bother with the AlphaTrak due to the expense of the strips. Get yourself a human glucometer and matching strips when you're at the drug store today - I like to go to Walmart because they have the best price on all that stuff - inexpensive glucometers, strips, lancets and syringes...I use the Relion's 30 IUs 15/64ths (very short needle)...

Don't bother trying to return the syringes you have, they won't accept returns on any diabetic supplies, for any reason. You might want to donate them ... but the store won't take them back....

Please post again today - a new condo - to let us know how you're both doing! And Welcome!!!
Click to expand...


Update....they did in fact take the incorrect syringes back, refund our money and gave us a box or the correct ones. It was the pharmacy that made the error not the Vet.

We are going to let the cat calm down for another day or two before doing anything.

I will definitely keep you posted.

Thanks for all of your help!
 
All I can say is, thank goodness you posted here and the mistake was discovered. Which brand syringes did you end up getting?

And how is Jada feeling today?
 
Wendy&Neko said:
All I can say is, thank goodness you posted here and the mistake was discovered. Which brand syringes did you end up getting?

And how is Jada feeling today?
Click to expand...

Jada is not 100% yet. She has been sneezing for a couple of days now a couple times an hour. The frequency is decreasing. I know all of this has totally stressed her out. One thing I can say for sure is she does not have dangerously low blood sugar right now.

I am not sure on the brand of syringes. I have not been home yet.

Its funny about this site. I was just searching the internet for information trying to make sense of all this when I stumbled upon this forum. I decided to join and post this thread. Within 30 minutes I had all the answers and it became so obvious what had gone wrong. This forum is everything that’s right about the internet.
 
James Little said:
Jada is not 100% yet. She has been sneezing for a couple of days now a couple times an hour. The frequency is decreasing. I know all of this has totally stressed her out. One thing I can say for sure is she does not have dangerously low blood sugar right now.

I am not sure on the brand of syringes. I have not been home yet.

Its funny about this site. I was just searching the internet for information trying to make sense of all this when I stumbled upon this forum. I decided to join and post this thread. Within 30 minutes I had all the answers and it became so obvious what had gone wrong. This forum is everything that’s right about the internet.
Click to expand...

I am so glad you found this forum! They saved my cat's life too. I was not told to switch to U-100 needles when we switched to Lantus (either by the vet or the pharmacy). This means that he got more than double his dose of insulin, at a staggering 6u because I used the wrong syringes! In July, my kitty weighed only 5 lbs, he was so sick, he was peeing everywhere outside the box, lethargic, eating but dropping weight....sooooooo unwell. The Caninsulin he originally was on was all wrong for him. 2 months later, he's gained more than 2 lbs, he's happy, health is restored, litter box is consistently used, and the volunteers have helped guide his insulin regiment (decreasing from 3.75u now to 1.25u with my fingers crossed for remission). I don't think you could ever find a vet with this kind of collective and extensive knowledge of feline diabetes and you've seen how responsive everyone is! You are fortunate to have landed here. I would trust their advice over my vet's any day of the week (and I like him!) Most vets are like MD's as they are general practitioners, not specialists. Good luck with Jada. Please keep us posted on her progress.
 
Update:
Armed with the correct syringes we started giving Jada injections on Thursday morning after a couple of days off. Now we are actually giving her the correct dosage. She had her 4th shot tonight. I can only check her blood sugar when I get home from work before her dinner. Last night it was 247. Tonight it was 211. When I have a day off on Sunday I want to check her 6 hours after the morning injection. She has stopped sneezing and has been acting more like herself today.
 
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