Newly diagnosed with questions

Jessica + Bo

Jessica + Bo

Member
Hi, my cat Bo is newly diagnosed (just about 1 week ago) and I have so many questions that I can't seem to find solid answers to.

First of all, Bo was free-fed mostly dry food with the occasional can of wet (gravy friskies mostly).

Since his diagnoses he is on purina dm. 2 cans wet per day with a small amount of the dry (22g) to make up the rest of his daily calories (he is 16 lbs)


He takes 1.5 U (U-40) of prozinc 2x a day, 12 hours apart. His vet instructed me to try to get him to eat all of his meal (1/2 of his daily calories) before dosing him. But he literally never eats that much in 1 sitting. The past few days I have been getting him to eat about 1/3 of a can, then dosing him and leaving the rest of the food out for him to graze on throughout the day.

The issue is today he had a really small appetite. His breakfast can lasted him until dinner and he barely even licked at his dinner can before walking away. He wasn't even enticed by the dry food to take a few more bites.

For tonight I'm skipping his insulin and leaving the food out in case he wants to continue to graze at it.

My question is, should I be doing something different? Should I be taking away his food after an hour or so to encourage him to eat the full can at his next meal? I tried this in the beginning but he was still not finishing the meal, which made me extra nervous about dosing him.

I'm terrified of overdosing him. But at the same time, I really want to encourage him to go into remission.

Sorry for such a long post. I'm just trying to do my best.
 
Hey Jessica!

I'm no expert (my cat just got diagnosed 11/2) but wanted to share my thoughts. Are there any diabetic safe treats that Bo really likes? My cat was obsessed with Temptations but we took them out and replaced with some smelly freeze dried salmon. And when it seems like she wasn't going to eat enough food, I ripped apart a few pieces of the salmon and sprinkled them in her food and she kinda got 'tricked' into eating more.

As for timing, I've also been strict about not letting her eat 2 hours before her testing/shot. She gets really hungry around that time so it's been working for us. If she seems really really hungry, I'll give her a teaspoon of her dinner but really try not to. My cat's a free feeder as well so I get the struggle! Good luck! Hopefully some others with more experience can chime in as well.
 
Jessica -

You might want to post on the Health board. There is a small group of Prozinc users whereas there are lots of people on Health and there are members who will see your posts and be able to respond more quickly. We encourage members who are new to FDMB to start on Health.

Also, if you could set the permissions on Bo's spreadsheet to anyone with the link, we'll be able to take a look at how he's doing along with you.
 
Hi there. It looks like you need to shoot a consistent dose each morning and night. I’m seeing a lot of different doses on your spreadsheet but I don’t see numbers on there that tell me why. So it is confusing. Can you get a test every morning and every night before you shoot the insulin- to make sure that he is high enough to give the dose.

Don’t feed him for two hours prior to the test/shot so that the number will not be inflated by food. I am sure you’ve gotten a lot of suggestions about feeding low carb wet food?
 
Suzanne & Darcy said:
Hi there. It looks like you need to shoot a consistent dose each morning and night. I’m seeing a lot of different doses on your spreadsheet but I don’t see numbers on there that tell me why. So it is confusing. Can you get a test every morning and every night before you shoot the insulin- to make sure that he is high enough to give the dose.

Don’t feed him for two hours prior to the test/shot so that the number will not be inflated by food. I am sure you’ve gotten a lot of suggestions about feeding low carb wet food?
Click to expand...

Hey, I include the reason for the low doses in the "remarks" column to the right. Is there a better place for me to note it so that its more clear?
 
Okay. I’m sorry. It is my fault for not seeing the notes. That is the perfect place to put notes like that about what and when you feed and any problems. I was looking on my phone so I didn’t see the notes. Do you have any idea why his appetite is so poor? Has he had bloodwork done recently?
 
Well no matter what dose you shoot, try to always get a preshot fasting test and at least one mid cycle test. You can try to test at different times of day so we can fill in the gaps on the spreadsheet and hopefully get a better idea of how each cycle is going.
 
Suzanne & Darcy said:
Okay. I’m sorry. It is my fault for not seeing the notes. That is the perfect place to put notes like that about what and when you feed and any problems. I was looking on my phone so I didn’t see the notes. Do you have any idea why his appetite is so poor? Has he had bloodwork done recently?
Click to expand...
Yes he did have bloodwork. I just included all the number in the spreadsheet right now.

To me his appetite seems normal. He was always a light eater that would just graze at any point in the day. When he was just free-fed dry kibble, he would regularly eat just a few small bites at a time. He rarely ever would eat a large amount at one time unless it was a can of gravy wet food. Even then he would lick up all the gravy and come back a few times throughout the day/night to nibble at the chunks.
 
Suzanne & Darcy said:
Well no matter what dose you shoot, try to always get a preshot fasting test and at least one mid cycle test. You can try to test at different times of day so we can fill in the gaps on the spreadsheet and hopefully get a better idea of how each cycle is going.
Click to expand...
Thank you! I'm going to try to be mindful to test whenever I can. I was able to get a reading today about 2 hours after his dose by wrapping him in a blanket and warming his ear with a rice sock for almost 2 minutes. He didn't like it but he doesn't seem to hate me, he forgave me within a few minutes of running away after I unwrapped him. So hopefully I'll be able to make it less traumatic and more consistent for him in the future
 
Jessica + Bo said:
Thank you! I'm going to try to be mindful to test whenever I can. I was able to get a reading today about 2 hours after his dose by wrapping him in a blanket and warming his ear with a rice sock for almost 2 minutes. He didn't like it but he doesn't seem to hate me, he forgave me within a few minutes of running away after I unwrapped him. So hopefully I'll be able to make it less traumatic and more consistent for him in the future
Click to expand...
Be sure to give him a special low-carb treat after every test or test attempt. A lot of people use freeze dried meat chunks like Pure Bites and some people boil chicken that the shred or cut up into little pieces. This makes the testing a more positive experience. If it’s the AMPS or PMPS test then you can just give him his food dish right away too. You can test, feed and shoot the insulin all within a few minutes of time. The ProZinc will take a few hours before onset anyway (when it will start to kick in an lower BG.)
 
I was trying to look at Bo’s labs. Unfortunately there is no reference range/interval on the Labs tab of your spreadsheet. I thought it was already included on the blank tab, although some labs do vary. Are you in Canada? I noticed the different measurements.

Anyway, about Bo’s eating, grazing really should not be too much pf a problem for a diabetic cat — it’s better than what many vets tell people, which is to only feed your cat twice a day in the morning and evening. Frequent small amounts of food spread throughout the early portion of the cycle are beneficial for stabilizing blood glucose and preventing steep drops. We usually do not recommend feeding much or anything after nadir (lowest point in the cycle) because it can shorten the duration of the insulin and cause BG to rise prematurely — a low carb treat after testing is okay.
 
Sorry for the long and multiple posts, but back to feeding. The main problem with a cat who doesn’t have a big appetite is that sometimes you need to get them to eat to bring numbers up. Although you can always use Karo syrup administered with a little water through an oral syringe or give a teaspoon of gravy from a can of Fancy Feast Gravy Lovers cat food (since most of the carbs are in the gravy.) Do you have a hypo kit set up with high carb food and Karo syrup or pure maple syrup or honey?
 
As for shooting late, the shots need to be spaced as close to 12 hours apart as you can get. So if you shoot three hours late that will really mess up your schedule. If you shoot a half dose three hours ate, well, you still will have the problem of the insulin still acting to reduce blood glucose by the time you want to shoot again (which would be +9 or 9 hours after you shoot three hours late.). It may not be as big of an issue when your cat is in high numbers, but when his numbers start to come down, it could be a real problem — and you have already logged a blue nadir. You could probably work with an hour late, but three hours is just a lot. Sometimes if you get a low preshot test, you will want to stall a bit anyway. Just remember that it will take a few hours for the ProZinc to start lowering BG, so the number you are shooting is the number where he will be in a few hours. As you gather testing data, we will see if he rises in the first hours after you give the insulin.
 
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Suzanne & Darcy said:
I was trying to look at Bo’s labs. Unfortunately there is no reference range/interval on the Labs tab of your spreadsheet. I thought it was already included on the blank tab, although some labs do vary. Are you in Canada? I noticed the different measurements.

Anyway, about Bo’s eating, grazing really should not be too much pf a problem for a diabetic cat — it’s better than what many vets tell people, which is to only feed your cat twice a day in the morning and evening. Frequent small amounts of food spread throughout the early portion of the cycle are beneficial for stabilizing blood glucose and preventing steep drops. We usually do not recommend feeding much or anything after nadir (lowest point in the cycle) because it can shorten the duration of the insulin and cause BG to rise prematurely — a low carb treat after testing is okay.
Click to expand...

I am in Canada, I just added in the reference ranges from the test results sheet. I marked all of the ones that he is outside of the range in red.

Suzanne & Darcy said:
As for shooting late, the shots need to be spaced as close to 12 hours apart as you can get. So if you shoot three hours late that will really mess up your schedule. If you shoot a half dose three hours ate, well, you still will have the problem of the insulin still acting to reduce blood glucose by the time you want to shoot again (which would be +9 or 9 hours after you shoot three hours late.). It may not be as big of an issue when your cat is in high numbers, but when his numbers start to come down, it could be a real problem — and you have already logged a blue nadir. You could probably work with an hour late, but three hours is just a lot. Sometimes if you get a low preshot test, you will want to stall a bit anyway. Just remember that it will take a few hours for the ProZinc to start lowering BG, so the number you are shooting is the number where he will be in a few hours. As you gather testing data, we will see if he rises in the first hours after you give the insulin.
Click to expand...

So it's better to skip the dose than to dose late?

Suzanne & Darcy said:
Have you had a chance to read through the sticky notes on this forum such as this one on ProZinc dosing methods?
https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/prozinc-dosing-methods.225629/
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I've read through the Prozinc dosing methods, but honestly it's all very overwhelming, I find I'm not retaining any info by the end. I'll try again.


Suzanne & Darcy said:
Sorry for the long and multiple posts, but back to feeding. The main problem with a cat who doesn’t have a big appetite is that sometimes you need to get them to eat to bring numbers up. Although you can always use Karo syrup administered with a little water through an oral syringe or give a teaspoon of gravy from a can of Fancy Feast Gravy Lovers cat food (since most of the carbs are in the gravy.) Do you have a hypo kit set up with high carb food and Karo syrup or pure maple syrup or honey?
Click to expand...

I don't have a kit per-say. But I do always keep honey on-hand, as well as lots of cans of gravy canned food from before his diagnoses.
 
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