Newly Diagnosed.. using ProZinc

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sheryl1032

Member Since 2012
One of my cats was just diagnosed with diabetes on Tuesday. She has lost some weight over the last couple months so we took her in for a check up. We never noticed any other symptoms. Other than weight loss she seems perfectly fine. We started her on ProZinc on Wednesday giving it to her every 12 hours. The vet did not tell us to test her but I did go out and buy a blood glucose tester anyway and I have been using that over the last two days as well for my own piece of mind.

I am concerned about how much she should be eating. I have 3 indoor cats. Besides the 13 lb diabetic cat one of the other cats is overweight. He is about 16 lbs. The third one is not overweight at all. I have always left dry food (Nutro Max Indoor Weight Control) out in the dish all day so I really have no idea how much any of them ate on a daily basis. I also would split one can of wet food between the three every morning. That would be either Nutro Max Senior Chicken and Lamb or a can of Friskies. The vet said to continue feeding her the same food twice a day. Give her either 2 cans of wet food a day or one cup of dry food a day or a combination. Does this seem right? She does eat when I put her food out but she will not eat a full can at one time nor will she eat a full half cup of dry food at one time.

Would it be OK if I fed her the two cans of food a day but split it up into 4 meals every 6 hours? I am so confused over what and how to feed her. I do not want to over feed her but I also don't want her to be underfed if she does not finish all her food in just two sittings.

Also, I am not even sure I should continue the same can food or is their something else I should use.

Any help is appreciated.
Thanks,
Sheryl
 
Re: Newly Diagnosed

HI Sheryl! Sorry to hear that your kitty was diagnosed with FD, but you've come to the right place for help.

I'm not familiar with ProZinc, but you might want to add "on ProZinc" to the subject line. You might also want to duplicate your post in the ProZinc forum.

Questions people are going to ask you:

1) What is the dose of ProZinc you are currently giving your cat?

2) What BG meter are you using, and how often are you testing?


As for food, all dry food has too high of a carb content for any diabetic cat. There are several food lists which will give you the carb contents of the canned food, and you want to stay below 10%. The lower the better, actually. Here are some links:

Janet and Binky's list http://binkyspage.tripod.com/CanFoodNew.html
Hobo's Guide to Nutritional Values in Cat Food https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AmkyagqUb3nudG9sRVhTVnFEWlhaU19ZUXkxTnlhYXc#gid=0
Pet Food Nutritional Values Comparison - August 2010 https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B8Uu8g1u8Su9YTgxNGE1MDItM2MyMC00Y2Y3LWI4ODMtMzhkYTkxOGM4NThk/edit

There are others...I just don't have them bookmarked. Sorry.

Since your cat is already on insulin, you're going to want to transition to all-canned cat food slowly because his BG numbers will go down once you start taking away the high carb dry food.

When my Pumbaa was first diagnosed, he had lost about 4 lbs. and was eating non-stop because his body wasn't absorbing any nutrients. I let him eat as much as he wanted, initially (which some people don't agree with), and he slowed down his eating as he started being able to absorb the nutrients. He put weight back on, but it wasn't flabby weight...he's all muscle now, and the other cat is looking so much better, too, off the dry food. Like your cats, mine were getting some canned food in the morning and then grazing on dry food the rest of the day. The civvie, Larry, used to gorge on the dry food and barf it up all over, frequently. The barfing has pretty much stopped, other than an occasional hairball or when someone decides to "snarf-and-barf" and overeat.

I know others will chime in with a lot more information, but that's a start. :)

Suze
 
Re: Newly Diagnosed

Welcome :smile:

ProZinc is a good insulin choice. What dose if your cat on? This board recommends starting at no more than 1 unit of any insulin twice a day, though there may be some few exceptions.

Great that you have a blood gluose meter :-D What brand is it? FreeStyle and any generic-type meter that has "True" or "Tru" in the name are inaccurate so you shouldn't use these. The testing tips and videos are here: http://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=287

sheryl1032 said:
I am concerned about how much she should be eating. I have 3 indoor cats. Besides the 13 lb diabetic cat one of the other cats is overweight. He is about 16 lbs. The third one is not overweight at all. I have always left dry food (Nutro Max Indoor Weight Control) out in the dish all day so I really have no idea how much any of them ate on a daily basis.
Click to expand...

Nutro Max Indoor Weight Control dry food is really high in carbs :shock: It's not on Binky's dry food chart (http://binkyspage.tripod.com/dryfood.html) but the other Nutro dry foods are over 25% carbs so the weight cotnrol formula is most likely in that carb range. High carb dry foods is one reason why so many cats end up diabetic in the first place.

Please stop feeding your diabetic the Nutro dry food. High carbs keeps blood glucose levels up way too high which makes it harder for the insulin to work and to regulate blood glucose levels. Actually, all of your cats will benefit if no dry food is fed at all. htttp://www.catinfo.org has info on proper cat nutrition and why dry foods are so awful for a cat's health. Don't beat yourself up for feeding dry food, though. Few members here knew how bad dry food was until their cat(s) ended up diabetic and they found this web site and learned about proper cat nutrition.


I also would split one can of wet food between the three every morning. That would be either Nutro Max Senior Chicken and Lamb or a can of Friskies.
Click to expand...


Nurto Max Senior Chicken and Lamb is too high in carbs for a diabetic cat, 27% according to Binky's old food chart http://binkyspage.tripod.com/CanFoodOld.html I would not feed this to the diabetic cat.

Friskies is a better choice. There are many low carb varieties to choose from: http://binkyspage.tripod.com/CanFoodNew.html

Fancy Feast, Wellness, Merrick, and other brands of canned food are some other popular brands to feed to a diabetic cat.

"Low carb" is under 10% and are suitable for diabetics. Members here use Binky's food chart and these other charts to find suitable foods:

Pet Food Nutritional Values list
Hobo's Guide To Nutritional Values
Dr. Lynne's Wet Food list
List of low carb gluten free Fancy Feast

On the Pet Food Nutritional Values Chart and Hobo's Guide, look at the %kcal from carbs column and choose foods that have a number 10 or less.

Low carb treats: http://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=9172

The vet said to continue feeding her the same food twice a day. Give her either 2 cans of wet food a day or one cup of dry food a day or a combination. Does this seem right? She does eat when I put her food out but she will not eat a full can at one time nor will she eat a full half cup of dry food at one time.
Would it be OK if I fed her the two cans of food a day but split it up into 4 meals every 6 hours? I am so confused over what and how to feed her. I do not want to over feed her but I also don't want her to be underfed if she does not finish all her food in just two sittings.
Click to expand...

Feed only low carb canned food to the diabetic.

As to how much to feed, small frequent meals is best for a diabetic. Unregulated diabetics are always hungry so they should have small meals avaialble.Two 5oz cans a day split into several small meals might be enough but adjust according to your cat. People here use a programmable timed feeder to allow their diabetic cat to eat during the day. Having multiple cats makes it harder since you don't know if one non-diabeteic cat is hoarding all the food and keeping the others from eating. Members who have multiple cats can offer suggsetions on what to do.

As said, all of your cats will benefit from a canned food only diet, not just the diabetic. So try to get all of the cats off the dry food if you can. There are tips here on how to transition from dry food to canned food: http://catinfo.org/docs/Tips for Transitioning PDF 1-14-11.pdf

If you have a holdout and absolutely have to feed dry food, there are some grain-free fairly low carb dry foods you can feed like Wellness CORE, Innova EVO, and Nature's Variety Instinct. Try to keep the diabetic away from these dry foods. A few pieces can be enough to send blood glucose levels up really high.
 
Re: Newly Diagnosed..Using ProZinc

I am using the ReliOn Ultima tester from Walmart. Madison is on 2 units twice a day. Today I fed and tested her at 4:45 am (eastern time) and BG was at 420. Gave her the insulin shot at 5:00am. I tested again at 9:00am and it was 114. Fed her wet food at 5:00pm and gave her the shot at 5:10pm. did another test at 7:40pm and it was 149.

She seems fine to me and its so hard to believe all this is going on inside her. Its very overwhelming but I will do anything I can to help her.

Thanks for any and all advise.
 
Re: Newly Diagnosed

Would it be OK if I fed her the two cans of food a day but split it up into 4 meals every 6 hours? I am so confused over what and how to feed her. I do not want to over feed her but I also don't want her to be underfed if she does not finish all her food in just two sittings.
Click to expand...

It would be perfectly fine, and most likely beneficial, to feed multiple times a day rather than just two meals. It doesn't have to be every six hours on the dot. You definitely want to feed her a meal at shot time, day and night. But you don't have to wait until 6 hours later, you can feed at 4 or 5 hours after the shot if that works with your schedule. The only time you really don't want her to eat is for a couple of hours leading up to "shot time", so that the test you get then is "free from food" (food raises their blood glucose).

You've probably noticed that most of us have links below our names (Like "Zoe" under mine)? Most people record their dose amounts and BG tests on a spreadsheet. It's a priceless tool for managing feline diabetes. All of, as you say, what is going on inside of her body will make more sense to you (and us) when you look at it on a spreadsheet.
Here is a link to how to set one up, and if the instructions are confusing, we can help you out with creating one.
http://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=18207

Just the numbers you have gotten already help. It looks like the 2u dose is being very effective, maybe even more effective than it needs to be. The "low point", or nadir of the cycle should take place between 5-7 hours after her shot. You can see that this morning, she dropped 300 points in just 4 hours. Did you test before the shot tonight? Not sure how far she's dropped, but 149 is a good number just 2.5 hours after the shot. If you could test her again around 9pm, you can see how much more she's dropped.

Carl
 
Re: Newly Diagnosed

Thank you for all the helpful information.

I am going to start feeding all 3 cats wet food. Hopefully this will help my other one that is overweight as well. I just ordered a programmable timed feeder today. Not sure how I will use it with the other cats. Any suggestions are welcome.
 
Congratulations on the testing- your meter is a great one to use. Your insulin is good, too, and we have a highly active PZI forum.

The good thing about canned food is that those who need to gain weight will, those that need to loose weight should, and their fur will soon be sleek and shiny and soft!

If you can transition them all to wet that will make a HUGE difference as they all get the same food then there is no need to separate them as they feed. The problem will be if you have a scarf n' barf cat. For all else, if they have 'their' bowl place food on it. It can be frozen in an ice tray and laid out to thaw (always mix water in with it), use the feeder. Free feeding with wet doesn't require anything extra than dry but water- and if they are the kind that nibbles through the day put an ice in the tray to melt and keep the canned moist. You should be adding water anyway- at least 25-50% at first- smush a little food and mix it with the water to make gravy- up to same amount of food. The more water they get with their food the less water they get out of the bowl. And several feedings a day is good as it helps keep the BG levels... well, more level.

You can start looking at dry like it is basically a peanut butter candy Air Pop. Not as much water as a cat needs, filled with air so they eat a lot- and POOP most of it out, and it doesn't compare to the ingredients of canned food.

Good luck!
 
I totally agree about adding water to the canned food. From what I have read, cats get most of their necessary water from their food, not from drinking out of a water bowl.

I've tried many methods of adding water to their canned food (using a food processor, using a wire whisk, etc.), and have found that the best way is to mash up the canned food with a teaspoon in the food bowls first, to break down the food, before adding the extra water and making a nice gravy that my cats lick up first. Later in the day, if there are any solids left in their bowls, I just add more water and the cats are very happy.

Also, you can try sprinkling Parmesan cheese on the top, as Pumbaa goes nuts for anything that has Parmesan on it. Larry, the civvie, goes nutso when I break up a Stella & Chewy's freeze dried raw nugget on top of his food.

Hope this helps!

Suze
 
Welcome! You have gotten some great food advice and you already have your spreadsheet up and ready to be filled out. You are definitely on your way.

If you would like dose advice, fill out your spreadsheet and post before shooting. Testing before feeding in the am and pm is vitally important. You want to be sure the dose you plan to give is safe. Then any time you can get midcycle numbers, it will help you see how the insulin is working - how low it takes her and how fast it starts working, how long it lasts.

Just some general guidelines:

We consider a cat regulated on insulin if they are in the 200s at preshot and in the 100s or lower at midcycle, but not under 40 which is getting too low and requires intervention with higher carb food and possibly syrup. We suggest that new diabetics not shoot under 200 but wait 20 minutes without feeding (food raises glucose levels) and retest, to make sure the number is rising, not falling, and is over 200. Then shoot a reduced dose.

We consider cats in remission when they range from 40-120, without insulin, staying in the double digits the majority of the cycle. Once they are in those ranges for 2 weeks, we call them in remission.

Here is a big document on ProZinc. Lots of valuable info and links, but too much for one reading.
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=32799

Read and ask questions. We'd love to help you help your kitty.
 
All this information is so helpful.

I have updated Madison's spreadsheet. I hope I am filling it out correctly.

Thanks to everyone!!
 
Looks good.
To keep the dates coming highlight the first four dates- this will leave you with the little blue box in the lower right corner. Place your pointer on that and drag it down 15-20 lines and the dates should automatically populate.

Keeping track of food is awesome- especially at the beginning. You can also right click in any square and insert a comment. It leaves an orange triangle in that square notating that there is a comment to be read. Usually I use it if I have to leave a long comment that makes the box long or to notate if my testing time was off by 15, 30, or 45 minutes.
 
I have recently read that Prozinc was being discontinued. Should my vet have started her on something else? I am concerned about having to switch treatment in the future.
 
sheryl1032 said:
I just ordered a programmable timed feeder today. Not sure how I will use it with the other cats. Any suggestions are welcome.
Click to expand...

The way I handled the feeder with multiple cats was to have one of each of the same feeders per cat (that's important so that you can sync them up easily). I fed each cat every meal at opposite ends of the kitchen, so they would each always run to their "spot" at meal times. I put the feeders in their same "spots" when I was gone, so when they went off they each ran to their feeders to eat. One of my cats was more food aggressive than the other, so he would inevitably make his way over to her feeder to finish off her food, but because I fed them 4 times a day the portions were small enough where he didn't get much of her food. I made it up to her at dinnertime.

Lantus and Levemir are two excellent insulins if you cannot get your hands on Prozinc; they have a very high remission rate in cats.
 
Several things. Never forget - one number is just one number. If you get a number that seems unusual, test again. The other thing is that she could have gone low (you didn't get a midcycle number - just an early number) and this number could be a bounce.
 
Re: Newly Diagnosed.. using ProZinc and need advise

This morning Madison's number was 133. I leave for work after she eats and gets her shot. Since it was so low I did not give her a shot. I then had my daughter test her before she left for work and the number did go up to 202 which was 2 hours later.

Did I do the right thing or should I have still given her a shot at a lower dose? I will not be able to test her again until I get back home from work at 4:30pm.

I should also add that when I took her to the vet on Saturday she had a urinary tract infection and I am giving her one pill a day for that. The medicine starts with a "Z" I think. I am not home to actually look at it.

Thanks!
 
Nice number! If you had been home and could have adjusted your schedule for a late shot, you could have shot a reduced dose at 202. But I think it was best to skip. Just remember that tonight your pmps may be high, but it's because she has been 24 hours without a shot.

You will want to reduce the dose tonight because you got an unshootable amps on the previous dose. The goal is to have 2 shootable numbers at am and pm. So tonight, maybe a 1.5?
 
I agree, nice number!
I think there are a couple of things going on, all good. I think this morning you did the right thing by skipping, since you couldn't be home to see what was happening. Had you been home, I think you could have given a "token" dose of maybe .5u this morning and tested later to see if she was going low.

Last night's cycle was something we see occasionally with Prozinc. It looks like it was a "long cycle" that for some reason ran longer than 12 hours. The green number you saw at +9 looks like a later than normal nadir took place. Which is one reason you saw such a low number at AMBG this morning.... the cycle was running longer than 12 hours.

The other thing that might be happening is that the antibiotic may be fixing the UTI, which should cause a lowering of her BG numbers overall.

I agree that it looks like it might be time for a dose reduction. Do not be surprised if you see a high number at PMPS tonight. Not only will she have gone 24 hours without a shot, but I would also expect a higher number from a "bounce" due to the 55 last night. Kind of like you saw the last time you saw a green number. That's "normal" and you shouldn't react to it. It doesn't mean the dose needs to be increased, it means her body is not quite used to "normal" BG numbers. The more she sees them, the more chance she'll relearn what normal feels like, and the less likely it will be that she'll bounce higher from them.

It depends what you see at shot time tonight, but I would say that as long as the number is above 300 (although it would be awesome to see a lower number), I think the 1.5u dose Sue suggested makes sense.

Carl
 
As you both suggested she was high when I tested her. I was hoping for under 400 but she was 419. I did lower her dose to 1.5 tonight. Anxious to see what tomorrow will bring.
Thanks for your help.
 
Madison was low again this morning. When I tested her she was 114. I fed her and gave her the medicine for her UTI. I decided to give her a shot still because yesterday without it she was high in the pm but I only gave her .5. My daughter retested her 2 hours later and she was 224. Did I do the right thing? I am so stressed out and worried about the hypo effects since she will be home alone all day.
Not sure how much insulin to give her tonight.
 
That is odd that she would rise that much. Is there a chance the medicine is high in carbs and it is keeping her numbers inflated? Maybe post with its name and ask if anyone knows the carb value? Does she just get it in the am or pm too?

What kind of food?
 
The name of the medicine is Zenequin 25mg and she only gets it in the am. I crush it up and put it in her food. I feed her Fancy Feast or Friskies. This morning she had Friskies Salmon pate. I have to make sure it is a flavor she will eat since the meds are in it. She started the meds on Sat. 8/18 and I was told to give it to her for 14 days.
 
Of course I am no vet, Sheryl, but I wonder if the medication is inflating her numbers. It seems to fit since she is lower in the am(after it wears off) and higher after she gets the medication. You could ask here on Health or ask your vet about the sugar/carb content.

Not that you need to stop it - it would just be nice to know so you could adjust the insulin as needed. Once she finishes it, I would be very careful with her doses. Her insulin levels might decrease by quite a bit.

Just supposition on my part.....
 
Zenequin is an antibiotic in the same family as Baytril. Antibiotics do not raise BGs but the condition that is necessitating the antibiotics likely can.
 
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