? Newly diagnosed, trying to get cat to gain weight

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cabreu

cabreu

Member Since 2020
Hi, I'm posting here because my cat was recently diagnosed and my vet isn't helpful. Also, I'm about to drive across the country with my cat, and I can't get a glucometer until that is over. So I need to know if my approach is ok for the drive.

Cat was diagnosed 2 weeks ago. She had been urinating and drinking a lot, and was down from her healthy weight of 13 lbs to 11.5 lbs. Her BG was 570, so we they gave her some fluids and we started on 1 unit of Lantus pen, twice a day. Did a BG curve a week and a half later, and levels are still really high: 600 an hour after eating/insulin, down to just below 400 six hours later. Vet said, that's expected, we just want to make sure the BG wasn't too low, since insulin takes months to work. But she had lost another half pound in that week and a half!

I think the problem is her diet-- Hills Science diet Indoor/Senior food, which they got us to start using last year when her kidney levels were slightly off. It has ~35% carbs, so I bought some low-carb Weruva food. My plan for the road is to give her mostly Weruva, with a little of the old food, so that the change isn't too drastic. Should I be worried about hypoglycemia? I just really want her to gain weight.
 
WELCOME TO FDMB! We are a community of kitty cat lovers that share a common goal. We all want our kitties to THRIVE not dive from diabetes. We also want to help you! We are so glad you found us! We are here to help you learn to navigate this disease in the best way possible. I take it you are not testing your kitties blood sugar at home. We can help you do this because it IS the ONLY way to keep your kitty safe.
Would you be comfortable sharing your names? "Hey you" gets rather old. :p
The best food for any diabetic is one that has low carbohydrates. A lot of us feed Fancy Feast pate's, but any food that comes in under 10% carbs will be a good choice. Also dry food is packed with carbs you may want to slowly remove that from kitties diet.

I dont want to scare you but any shot of insulin should be preceded buy a blood glucose test. Most here use just a plain old human meter. The strips are cheaper and they work just as good if not better than the meter your vet may try to sell you. We CAN help you with this! ( my hubby is a diabetic and he would NEVER shoot insulin without checking his BG first) We believe the same for our furies.
Hold on for more welcomes and replies FYI You will be asked to set up a spread sheet and a signature (that will appear at the bottom of each of your posts) you can find out how to do this here:
Suggestions, Tech Support & Testing Area
Again welcome to the best darn site to learn everything there is about feline diabetes!
jeanne
 
Hi there, and welcome to you and your kitty.

cabreu said:
I'm about to drive across the country with my cat, and I can't get a glucometer until that is over.
Click to expand...

cabreu said:
I think the problem is her diet-- Hills Science diet Indoor/Senior food, which they got us to start using last year when her kidney levels were slightly off. It has ~35% carbs, so I bought some low-carb Weruva food.
Click to expand...

That's a big drop in carb load between the current dry diet and the Weruva. Although your kitty was relatively high when tested, dropping to a low carb food from 35% has the potential to massively lower blood glucose levels (BG) in an extremely short space of time (hours, potentially). We always recommend that a diet change is only attempted when you're able to monitor your kitty's BG throughout the transition.

I see there's a problem with your getting your own glucometer at the moment. Do you know any human diabetics that might have a meter that takes affordable strips? If yes, then members here could help you learn to home test, advise you on the safe BG values used with a human meter (they read slightly lower than veterinary meters, but that's not an issue provided you're using the right BG reference range). If you could swing this then maybe you could complete the diet transition before you need to travel.

If it were my cat and I couldn't home test I'd keep it on the current dose and higher carb food and do daily urine tests with Keto-Diastix or similar (tests blood glucose and ketones in a kitty's urine). You can collect a big enough urine sample by making a hollow in your kitty's favourite spot in the litter box and covering it with a couple of layers of cling film. Some people catch samples by sticking a ladle under their kitty's derrière while they're peeing. (The indignity!)

The urine test strips will give you an idea of how much, if any, glucose is tipping into your kitty's urine (applies to unregulated/poorly regulated cats). Also it will show you if your kitty is producing any ketones (anything more than a trace requires IMMEDIATE veterinary care to prevent the cat from going into diabetic ketoacidosis).

Unregulated cats tend to drink and pee more. In the absence of blood testing, another thing to keep a proper eye on is your cat's water consumption (accurately measuring how much water you put out and how much is left after 24 hours). If your cat's water consumption changes then that can give you at least a little information on what's happening internally, but it is very, very crude. If the volume drank goes up then BG may be increasing; if it goes down then BG levels may be getting lower.


Mogs
.
 
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Thank you for the information and tips. I will get a glucometer after I finish driving to the opposite coast, but I am leaving tomorrow morning and can't do that yet.

It seemed like Willow (the cat) was drinking less in the days before her BG curve the other day, but then the numbers from the curve seem as if the insulin was doing absolutely NOTHING. Not sure if that should suddenly change, but that combined with her continuing to lose weight make me very concerned. I plan to mix her old and new food, which I have been doing over the past day, and she seems fine.

Hopefully she does ok in the car. Any tips on the best, cheapest glucometer/strips to buy would be appreciated, although I'm sure I can find this elsewhere on the site. Thanks again!

Clare
 
cabreu said:
Any tips on the best, cheapest glucometer/strips to buy would be appreciated
Click to expand...
Hello and welcome. Where do you live Clare? In the US, many people buy Walmart's Relion brand. Maybe there's one enroute. Their Prime has very cheap test strips. You basically want something with a fairly small blood drop requirement and tests strips that are reasonably priced. Here is that information on the site you were probably looking for: Blood Glucose Meter Ratings, Comparisons, and Recommendations
 
Thank you to everyone for the helpful tips. I have made it across the country with Willow and purchased a ReliOn Premier Glucometer. During the trip, I winded her food down to half high-carb old food, half low-carb new food (started with Weruva, switched to Fancy Feast because she didn't like it and got diarrhea).

We did our first at-home BG test this evening before her dinner and shot (which I have added to her spreadsheet). It was 466- still very high. What should I do? Switch to all low-carb food? Increase the insulin? Thank you.

I should mention-- I've been feeding her in the morning and evenings with her shot, and also lunch- low-carb food only, no shot.
 
Hi Clare very glad you and Willow arrived safely and it's great you got the meter and happy you are now testing.
I can't give advice on her dose ,I'm not that experienced as other members here.
But I think they will all tell you that now that you are settled we are going to have to see more tests for Willow to see how the lantus is working for her and how low it's taking her during the 12 hour cycles.

Then we can suggest if she needs more or less. You need to gather more data now that you are settled in.

Take a look at my spreadsheet or anyone else's and you will see what I mean.
At the end I will give you a few links to read about lantus and other important links

As for the food Fancy Feast Classics are fine to feed her. I assume that the Hills was dry food?

Just keep decreasing that high car food little by little , but you really have to monitor her closely because taking that away completely can lower her BG, so you want to make sure she is safe.

We feed our cats the biggest meal in the AM and PM after you test .
Most of us feed our cats smaller portions after that AM shot at least 2 smaller meals, same thing during the PM cycle.
No feeding 2 hours before you do your AM test and PM test, you don't want it to be food influenced.

Feeding them smaller meals during the cycles is easier on the pancreas.

You may want to pick up
some high carb Fancy Feast Gravy Lovers and some honey just to have on hand just in case Willow ever drops to low and you need to bring her BG up to safe numbers

Also pick up some ketostix to test for ketones in her urine.
 
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Well done starting to home test!!!
Always test before every shot and try and get some tests in during the cycles so we can see what is happening and how the insulin is affecting the BGs.
I would stay with the same dose of insulin until we see what is happening. You can slowly increase the low carb to replace the high carb but do it over several days.
I would also suggest you give some snacks during the cycles as well as before the shots. I would give a snack at +2 and +4 OR +5 every cycle (am and pm cycles). If your kitty drops low or fast give some food and post and ask for help.
 
Just in case you ever need higher carbs to bring his BG up

Fancy Feast Gravy Lovers Gourmet Beef Feast in Gravy 20% High Carbs

Fancy Feast Gravy Lovers Gourmet Chicken Feast in Gravy. 15% Med Carbs

Fancy Feast Gravy Lovers Turkey Feast in Gravy. 15% Med Carbs

Fancy Feast Gravy Lovers Chicken and Beef Feast in Gravy 15% Med CarbsCarbs
 
Also let us know what time your pre shot test are.
Great job setting up your SS already.
This is the best place you ever want to be, everyone here is/so helpful and there are a lot of experienced members here .
Just remember to post any questions you might have.
We have members that live all over and are on here at different times, so please let us know where you live or your time zone.
I know we can help you with your kitty Willow, she is a cutie by the way :cat:
 
Thank you all for the help and support. Willow's blood glucose testing has been put on hold for a bit, since her paw started bleeding a few nights ago and I realized she has a bad infection in it. The emergency vet gave her a strong antibiotic shot but said she felt a lump that could be a tumor. Hopefully it's just an abscess but I'm preparing myself for the worst :( Appointment tomorrow, so we'll see.
 
My little Olwen once got an infection in her paw from harvest mites. Very sore. Aw, poor Willow!

Fingers and paws crossed it's just an infection. Be sure to let us know how you both get on. :bighug:


Mogs
.
 
Please keep us updated , would you consider testing her ears instead of her paws

As you test the ears they will grow more cappilaries and testing will become easier
Aim for the sweet spot , You might want to purchase 28 gauge lancets and do it free hand on a 46 degree angle, eventually more capillaries will grow and it becomes easier
Start to rub his ears to get him used to it, warm them up first, if need be put some rice in a sock and warm it in the microwave and put it on his ears, make sure its not to hot. You don't want to aim for the vein

Earprick.jpg
Diabetic Cat Care Home Testing Your Cat’s BG


4395c545-36bf-4aba-bec7-4392fcdb191c-jpeg.48119
 
Thank you for the well wishes. Still waiting for cytology results to test for cancer, but it could be that Willow just injured her foot on the trip across the country when she threw a fit in her car tent and got her claw stuck. I'm hoping it's just that.

The vet advised me to increase her dose from 1 to 2 units twice per day, based on the fact that she hasn't gained much weight and her BG is still high. They tested it at the office, which was after a morning of sedation in which she missed both her food and insulin-- it was 690! Seems the insulin is working because it had worn off by then? After a day of the double dose, I tested at the +6hr mark, and BG is still at 369 (as shown in spreadsheet).

I have a question about the ear pricking-- does warming the ear help with blood flow? And how much should I have to massage to get a big enough drop after pricking? Today is a hot day and maybe her ear was warm from rubbing, but there was plenty of blood. In the past it seemed I got almost nothing, or a lot, possibly hitting the vein.

Also, my Lantus pen just reached the 28-day mark. I've been refrigerating it and warming it up before injecting- can I keep using it? It's hard to tell because she hasn't stabilized yet, but my expenses have been really high lately and I would like to reduce costs if possible.
 
If you could set up you signature that would be great
  • On the left, under Settings, Click on Signature. This is where you will put information that helps us give you feedback.
    • There is a limit of two lines which may include two links; you may separate pieces with commas, dashes, | etc. This is where you paste the link for your spreadsheet, once it is set up.
    • Add any other text, such as
    • Caregiver & kitty's name (optional)
    • DX: Date
    • Name of Insulin
    • Name of your meter
    • Diet: "LC wet" or "dry food" or "combo"
    • Dosing: TR or SLGS or Custom (if applicable)
    • DKA or other recent health issue (if applicable)
    • Acro, IAA, or Cushings (if applicable)
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Be sure to click the 'Save Changes' button at the bottom. If you need help urgently it is important we know these things at a glance. We don’t want to waste valuable time finding out information.


You will see that the signature is in gray at the bottom of each members posts

This makes it easier for members to see rather than go through all your posts or ask the same questions over again
Thanks
 
When increasing the dose we do increase by 0.25 units, by upping it a full unit you may skip over the correct dose.
Do you have syringes with half unit markings, it makes it easier to increase or decrease doses
It could have been that high 690 because you said she missed her dose

As for the lantus pen, one pen usually last for 6 months, you can continue to use it

Yes warming the ear does help with blood flow. Some will put rice in a sock and warm it in the microwave then put it on the ears to warm them. Just make sure it's not burning hot.
The more testing you do the ear will grow more capillaries and they will bleed better.
Are you using 28 gauge lancets, they will make a bigger hole.

As for her weight, are you feeding her the Fancy Feast Pate after her morning meal?
We feed our cats at least 2 smaller meals during each cycle
Just don't feed 2 hours before each pre shot
How many cans are you feeding her
What does she weigh?
 
I know you just started testing, is it possible for you to get more tests in after her morning pre shot and her night time pre shot so we can see how the insulin is working. Members need to see more data in order to advise on dosing
Scatter the tests at different times
 
I'll add more info to the signature but just to check-- are you not seeing anything in my signature yet?
 
Diane Tyler's Mom said:
https://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/forums/lantus-basaglar-glargine-and-levemir-detemir.9/

You might want to read this about lantus
Click to expand...
Thanks- I have, I just always get the vague impression that some people make it work for longer even though it's only supposed to be good for 28 days. There have been a few days (during the car trip) when the pen was in a cooler bag and wasn't totally refrigerated, although I did put it in the fridge as soon as I got to my hotel that evening. I'm worried about using insulin that stops working but not being able to tell based on her high BG, since she's not regulated yet.
 
cabreu said:
Thanks- I have, I just always get the vague impression that some people make it work for longer even though it's only supposed to be good for 28 days. There have been a few days (during the car trip) when the pen was in a cooler bag and wasn't totally refrigerated, although I did put it in the fridge as soon as I got to my hotel that evening. I'm worried about using insulin that stops working but not being able to tell based on her high BG, since she's not regulated yet.
Click to expand...


As for the lantus pen, one pen usually last for 6 months, you can continue to use it
 
cabreu said:
Thanks- I have, I just always get the vague impression that some people make it work for longer even though it's only supposed to be good for 28 days. There have been a few days (during the car trip) when the pen was in a cooler bag and wasn't totally refrigerated, although I did put it in the fridge as soon as I got to my hotel that evening. I'm worried about using insulin that stops working but not being able to tell based on her high BG, since she's not regulated yet.
Click to expand...

The 28-day limit on Lantus is for humans only who do not refrigerate it constantly because they carry it around with them.
If kept refrigerated properly (not in the side door), Lantus is good well beyond the 28 days and you can use it to the last drop.
 
cabreu said:
I have a question about the ear pricking-- does warming the ear help with blood flow? And how much should I have to massage to get a big enough drop after pricking? Today is a hot day and maybe her ear was warm from rubbing, but there was plenty of blood. In the past it seemed I got almost nothing, or a lot, possibly hitting the vein.
Click to expand...
As Diane says above, the temperature of the ear does affect blood flow.

I was very surprised at how much - and for how long - I needed to warm Saoirse's ear when I first started testing. As Diane has already mentioned, with repeated testing it becomes increasingly easier to produce a blood sample for testing due to new capillary formation.

As you've already observed, it is much easier get a sample on a hot summer day. You may find that you'll need to warm the ear longer in the cooler months of the year (assuming you don't live in the tropics! :) )

I winced reading about Willow getting her claw stuck while you were travelling. Owwww! Poor baby!!

Keeping everything crossed here that the lab findings will be favourable.


Mogs
.
 
Diane Tyler's Mom said:
The 28-day limit on Lantus is for humans only who do not refrigerate it constantly because they carry it around with them.
If kept refrigerated properly (not in the side door), Lantus is good well beyond the 28 days and you can use it to the last drop.
Click to expand...
I see, thanks. I didn't remember not to store in the fridge door until about a week ago. Maybe I should get a new pen soon.
 
Critter Mom said:
As Diane says above, the temperature of the ear does affect blood flow.

I was very surprised at how much - and for how long - I needed to warm Saoirse's ear when I first started testing. As Diane has already mentioned, with repeated testing it becomes increasingly easier to produce a blood sample for testing due to new capillary formation.

As you've already observed, it is much easier get a sample on a hot summer day. You may find that you'll need to warm the ear longer in the cooler months of the year (assuming you don't live in the tropics! :) )

I winced reading about Willow getting her claw stuck while you were travelling. Owwww! Poor baby!!

Keeping everything crossed here that the lab findings will be favourable.


Mogs
.
Click to expand...
Thank you, this is all good to know. I feel bad drawing blood too often, but will try to test more. Her numbers still haven't come down with the higher dose, even though I'm testing when I think I should see a low point (~6 hrs after morning meal & insulin, before afternoon snacking).

The lab findings showed mostly inflammation and scar tissue, and apparently some slightly abnormal spindle-y cells. So we will wait to see if it heals- if it does not, they will have to amputate the toe! Ouch.
 
Diane Tyler's Mom said:
When increasing the dose we do increase by 0.25 units, by upping it a full unit you may skip over the correct dose.
Do you have syringes with half unit markings, it makes it easier to increase or decrease doses
It could have been that high 690 because you said she missed her dose

As for the lantus pen, one pen usually last for 6 months, you can continue to use it

Yes warming the ear does help with blood flow. Some will put rice in a sock and warm it in the microwave then put it on the ears to warm them. Just make sure it's not burning hot.
The more testing you do the ear will grow more capillaries and they will bleed better.
Are you using 28 gauge lancets, they will make a bigger hole.

As for her weight, are you feeding her the Fancy Feast Pate after her morning meal?
We feed our cats at least 2 smaller meals during each cycle
Just don't feed 2 hours before each pre shot
How many cans are you feeding her
What does she weigh?
Click to expand...

I do have some syringes, and could switch to them, but haven't because the pen needles are supposed to be more accurate for doses < 5 units. I haven't seen a reading below 300 yet, so I'm not worried about going past her correct dosage yet.

I'm using 30-gauge ultra-thin lancets. It's gotten easier, maybe because the weather is warmer, or maybe because of capillary growth. I don't have a microwave so I'm just warming the ear by rubbing it.

I'm feeding Fancy Feast roasted and flaked, since they are lower in phosphorous (she has slightly elevated kidney levels), but they do have a little more carbs than the pates (not by much though). And yes I'm feeding during the day- 1.5 (3-oz) cans in the morning and at night, and another can spaced out over the afternoon (but not before mid-day tests).
 
cabreu said:
I'm using 30-gauge ultra-thin lancets. It's gotten easier, maybe because the weather is warmer, or maybe because of capillary growth. I don't have a microwave so I'm just warming the ear by rubbing it.
Click to expand...

28-gauge lancets might make getting blood droplets more reliable in these early stages. Glad to hear you're finding it easier to get samples. Yes, the warmer weather does help.

I used a 3ml plastic pipette containing heated water to warm the sweet spot area on Saoirse's ear. You can get the pipettes on eBay. Here's a pic:


IMG_20160131_152925.jpg



Maybe a similar solution - using some sort of receptacle containing heated water - might help you with warming Willow's ear when the weather gets cooler?


Mogs
.
 

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Diane Tyler's Mom said:
The 28-day limit on Lantus is for humans only who do not refrigerate it constantly because they carry it around with them.
If kept refrigerated properly (not in the side door), Lantus is good well beyond the 28 days and you can use it to the last drop.
Click to expand...
I just got a new Lantus pen so hopefully her BG will start going down soon. I have another question-- is it ok to warm the pen using my hands before injecting? I do this because I read that injecting cold insulin causes irritation. I want to try to make this pen last several months! Thanks.
 
Critter Mom said:
28-gauge lancets might make getting blood droplets more reliable in these early stages. Glad to hear you're finding it easier to get samples. Yes, the warmer weather does help.

I used a 3ml plastic pipette containing heated water to warm the sweet spot area on Saoirse's ear. You can get the pipettes on eBay. Here's a pic:


View attachment 55614


Maybe a similar solution - using some sort of receptacle containing heated water - might help you with warming Willow's ear when the weather gets cooler?


Mogs
.
Click to expand...
Thank you for the tip!
 
cabreu said:
I just got a new Lantus pen so hopefully her BG will start going down soon. I have another question-- is it ok to warm the pen using my hands before injecting? I do this because I read that injecting cold insulin causes irritation. I want to try to make this pen last several months! Thanks.
Click to expand...
Yes just dont shake it. I think you can roll it gently between your hands but is just as easy to take it out 10 mins early and let it sit to warm up.

ETA: I think its ok to roll , maybe wait for more replies to be sure. ;)
 
jt and trouble (GA) said:
Yes just dont shake it. I think you can roll it gently between your hands but is just as easy to take it out 10 mins early and let it sit to warm up.

ETA: I think its ok to roll , maybe wait for more replies to be sure. ;)
Click to expand...
Thanks- do you know the reason for not shaking? I turn it upside down many times because I read you should do that instead of shaking, but don't understand the potential harm of shaking.
 
I'm not sure in the specifics. I read about it years ago but I will search to find it. Wait for more replies as someone here knows. They will probably beat me to the punch and post here.
 
cabreu said:
Hi, I'm posting here because my cat was recently diagnosed and my vet isn't helpful. Also, I'm about to drive across the country with my cat, and I can't get a glucometer until that is over. So I need to know if my approach is ok for the drive.

Cat was diagnosed 2 weeks ago. She had been urinating and drinking a lot, and was down from her healthy weight of 13 lbs to 11.5 lbs. Her BG was 570, so we they gave her some fluids and we started on 1 unit of Lantus pen, twice a day. Did a BG curve a week and a half later, and levels are still really high: 600 an hour after eating/insulin, down to just below 400 six hours later. Vet said, that's expected, we just want to make sure the BG wasn't too low, since insulin takes months to work. But she had lost another half pound in that week and a half!

I think the problem is her diet-- Hills Science diet Indoor/Senior food, which they got us to start using last year when her kidney levels were slightly off. It has ~35% carbs, so I bought some low-carb Weruva food. My plan for the road is to give her mostly Weruva, with a little of the old food, so that the change isn't too drastic. Should I be worried about hypoglycemia? I just really want her to gain weight.
Click to expand...

Hi Cabreu,

My cat Monkey was similar to your case. I know that people here have already given you robust advice. I would want to share what I learned from the recovery of Monkey.

1. If possible, one should be very focused on learning the best practice asap. It saves the troubles and confusion later. And the cat would be happier.
2. Cats need to feel safe, they need their owner to understand them to fulfill all their needs. Thousands of studies show that animals (including human) have the best recovery speed when they feel safe thus low stress. So my two cent is OBSERVE them carefully and fulfil their needs ASAP. Petting and Playing can help tremendously too. Monkey not only recover from FD, but also build the best ever connection with me.

Peter
 
PH&MonkeyPenPenFaFaTiger said:
Hi Cabreu,

My cat Monkey was similar to your case. I know that people here have already given you robust advice. I would want to share what I learned from the recovery of Monkey.

1. If possible, one should be very focused on learning the best practice asap. It saves the troubles and confusion later. And the cat would be happier.
2. Cats need to feel safe, they need their owner to understand them to fulfill all their needs. Thousands of studies show that animals (including human) have the best recovery speed when they feel safe thus low stress. So my two cent is OBSERVE them carefully and fulfil their needs ASAP. Petting and Playing can help tremendously too. Monkey not only recover from FD, but also build the best ever connection with me.

Peter
Click to expand...
Hi Peter,

Thank you for your thoughts. Is there anything specific that you think I should do? I haven't been able to get her BG down very much (see spreadsheet), but I have switched to syringes to adjust the doses more finely, and Willow doesn't have to sit still for 10 seconds now, which she was getting tired of.

Thanks again,
Clare
 
Hi again to everyone who has been so helpful. Willow's paw is healed! The vet also told me a few things that I wanted to get your opinion about:

1. Going above 2 units of insulin isn't a good idea for cats.
2. I should try not feeding her at all during the day to get her BG down- stick to the 8am/8pm food & insulin schedule.
3. Using the syringe on the insulin pen is risky and I should buy the full bottle.
4. She also gave me some probiotic for her diarrhea, which I'll try.
5. She suggested using the Libre Freestyle 14-day port.

I am wondering what you all would do, given this advice, and given my ability to test Willow's BG 1-2 times per day. Thank you!

p.s. One more question: A bubble usually forms in the syringe and I cannot get it out. How much does this change the amount of insulin in the syringe?
 
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