Newly diagnosed Kitty

[Jessica86]

Hi everyone. Someone suggested this forum for me. I have a 14 1/2 year old male domestic shorthair cat Taqui. He has end stage kidney disease. He is also anemic. This week been diagnosed with diabetes. Starting insulin on Friday. We're trying Glargine insulin and it is super expensive. Does anyone have any advice about insulin prices? This boy has taken all my money hehe. I'm sure y'all understand. I ordered Pet Wellbeing Blood Sugar Gold supplement from Chewy. It has amazing reviews. I know my vet has not recommended this or said anything about it but I'm willing to try it because of the good reviews. Thanks!
-Jessica &Taqui

Attached Files:

 

[Sarah&Soph]

I’ve seen a few posts on here now about the blood sugar gold, and I think the general consensus seems to be that it’s just a scam. I think most people gave it to their cats in addition to changing them to a low carb diet and starting insulin, and those two things are actually what helps, not the product.

As for glargine, the cheapest place to get it is from Canada, which many members here do. Here’s a link about it

http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/buying-insulin-from-canada.203498/

There’s also a Lantus savings card, but it seems to be hit or miss as to whether or not the pharmacist will take it since it’s for a cat

 

[Jessica86]

Wow thank you so much for your advice. The diets going to be tricky for me because he needs to be on a kidney diet and diabetic diet and they're sort of incompatible. Plus he's very picky right now and only wants junk Kitty food and at the time the vet told me just to give him whatever he would eat. So I'm trying to figure out how I'm going to do this. I'm definitely going to check into ordering insulin from Canada thank you so much!!

 

[Sarah&Soph]

There are several cats here with kidney problems and diabetes, so you should be able to get some help there as well if you want You could also do a search through the forum and there should be older threads that might help too. It’s definitely a lot to handle at first, but junk food is better than no food for now!

If you check out the lantus forum, there’s lot of info there for you to read to help you get familiar with the insulin

 

[Red & Rover (GA)]

The anemia is the most important thing to address right now. That and the other kidney support issues. You can manage the diabetes around the kidneys.

Here is a list of low carb, low phosphorus foods. It's a balancing act but it can be done.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1nMBzt57Zi0PcAJ-gSt0NxrTyc3Twi7A0L8o2H2gGkoM/edit#gid=0

For kidney disease, https://www.felinecrf.org/ is the bible.
Are you giving subq fluids?
A phosphorus binder? The gel that the vet sells is full of sugar. Most of us here use aluminum hydroxide powder. A small amount is mixed with food. It can be bought here.
https://www.thrivingpets.com/aluminum-hydroxide-powder-usp-200-gram-jar.html
What are you currently feeding? and what will he eat?

If you post your lab reports, we have a few people who understand and interpret them quite well.

 

[Jessica86]

The anemia is the most important thing to address right now. That and the other kidney support issues. You can manage the diabetes around the kidneys.

Here is a list of low carb, low phosphorus foods. It's a balancing act but it can be done.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1nMBzt57Zi0PcAJ-gSt0NxrTyc3Twi7A0L8o2H2gGkoM/edit#gid=0

For kidney disease, https://www.felinecrf.org/ is the bible.
Are you giving subq fluids?
A phosphorus binder? The gel that the vet sells is full of sugar. Most of us here use aluminum hydroxide powder. A small amount is mixed with food. It can be bought here.
https://www.thrivingpets.com/aluminum-hydroxide-powder-usp-200-gram-jar.html
What are you currently feeding? and what will he eat?

If you post your lab reports, we have a few people who understand and interpret them quite well.

The vet did say kidneys trump pancreas for the diet. He is getting fluids daily and has been for several months. His kidneys are bad, but he hasn't thrown up. I've been giving him pepsid ac for nausea. He is not on a phosphorus binder. Vet hasn't recommended that yet, not sure why. I'll check into the aluminum hydroxide I haven't even heard of that.
I've tried the kidney diets and still go back and forth with them mixing them when whatever he'll eat.It's tricky, definitely touch and go and I hate wasting money on this expensive food when he won't even try it. Any kidney diets that y'all have has success? I know every cat is different though. I give him dry and wet food daily. I give him Friskies dry food mostly because he'll gobble it up. I put some Hills k/d prescription dry food on it but he'll eat around it I'm not sure if he eats any of it. At times he'll eat just a bit of the Hills k/d pate but not every day. He likes Fancy feast, 9 lives, Friskies canned food so I just alternate whatever he'll eat. He loves Temptations treats but I try only to give a little a day because I'm sure they're not the best. I can post a photo of his latest lab work later on tonight. I will say the vet has told me he is trying to get in the record books for how high his levels are and how his body has compensated for certain deficiencies.
Right now he's in kidney stage 4, he has anemia, an infection (UTI maybe) and now diabetes. I guess I'm pretty overwhelmed with it all. I felt like giving up on him and saying no more for my poor guy. The vet seems more hopeful that I do about the injections since I already give him fluids she says it's not that hard. I want to at least give this a try to help him feel better. He's done really well so far. Believe me, I can't stand to see them suffer if they don't have to do I'm looking for all kinds of advice. Thanks!

 

[Red & Rover (GA)]

k/d prescription dry food

If I remember correctly, this food is one of the highest dry food in carbs that there is: 35% carbs. The k/d canned is 27% carbs. The only acceptable low carb prescription kidney cat food is the Purina DM canned.
Most people here feed low phos canned food and add aluminum hydroxide powder to it.
You can read about it here: http://www.felinecrf.org/phosphorus_binders.htm#aluminium_hydroxide

Both kidney disease and feline diabetes are steep learning curves. It will all become second nature quickly.

Do check out buying Lantus from Canada. A lot of people here do. It is much cheaper.

You will also need a glucometer to do readings before giving insulin and getting a few tests in mid cycle. Takes just a minute. There is no need to buy a pet glucometer. A human glucometer works just fine and it is what the majority of people here use. I do not know what country you are in. I'm in Canada so I'll let others suggest which glucometer takes the smallest amount of blood and has the cheapest strips in the US (presuming you are in the US).

 

[Chris & China (GA)]

He likes Fancy feast, 9 lives, Friskies canned food so I just alternate whatever he'll eat.

Fancy Feast Classics, Friskies pates and 9-Lives pates are all low carb which is good for the diabetes, but they're higher in phosphorus than we like for CKD kitties. But if he'll eat them, that's the most important thing so you can use the phosphorus binder (it's tasteless so you just mix it into the food) There are some commercial cat foods that are both low in carbs and phosphorus too. Ones I can think of right off hand are Weruva, BFF and Cats In the Kitchen.

The "prescription" foods are basically worthless and the ingredients are pretty lousy too. There's absolutely nothing in "prescription" foods that help or cure disease. The whole prescription food industry is nothing but a clever marketing tool between the pet food manufacturers and the veterinary profession.

The Temptations are unfortunately too high in carbs (most cats go crazy for them too!)….but you can try any freeze dried treat or even just bake chicken and use that for treats. As long as the only ingredient in the treats is a protein source, it's fine. I used to bake a piece of chicken for China, cut it into little pieces, put most in the freezer and leave some in the fridge for treats.

Tanya's Comprehensive Guide to CKD is the CKD Bible …..lots of great information there on kidney disease.

 

[Jessica86]

Lab test results

 

[Jessica86]

you can use the phosphorus binder (it's tasteless so you just mix it into the food) There are some commercial cat foods that are both low in carbs and phosphorus too. Ones I can think of right off hand are Weruva, BFF and Cats In the Kitchen.

The "prescription" foods are basically worthless and the ingredients are pretty lousy too. There's absolutely nothing in "prescription" foods that help or cure disease. The whole prescription food industry is nothing but a clever marketing tool between the pet food manufacturers and the veterinary profession.

The Temptations are unfortunately too high in carbs (most cats go crazy for them too!)….but you can try any freeze dried treat or even just bake chicken and use that for treats. As long as the only ingredient in the treats is a protein source, it's fine. I used to bake a piece of chicken for China, cut it into little pieces, put most in the freezer and leave some in the fridge for treats.

Thank you! I like specific instructions so I appreciate your input! I do check on Tanya's website from time to time to refresh my memory. I'll try the baked chicken or freeze dried treats. I do hate the prescription foods too, but I also hate telling my vet I'm not doing what she recommends. But anyways he doesn't eat the dry prescription and hardly eats the canned anyway. Fingers crossed he'll eat the food you recommend. Thank you!!

 

[Jessica86]

There are so many posts about Lantus to sift through and I just don't have the time. Can anyone post a link to a post here about basic or beginners guide to Lantus? I've never had to deal with diabetes before so I'm completely lost and overwhelmed with all this information and spreadsheets. I'm sure my vet will help me out tomorrow when he goes for his first dose and I'm sure I'm making it more complicated than it will be, but I'd like to have a basic knowledge before diving in. Thanks again, this forum is a wonderful resource!!

 

[Red & Rover (GA)]

If you click on the Lantus page, you will see yellow stickies at the top. Read through them, starting with this one: The Basics

 

[Larry and Kitties]

The high neutrophils could indicate an infection.
The bottom of the blood test report says that a urine culture and sensitivity was ordered. Please report the results when available.
Was a regular urine analysis (dipstick and microscopic analysius done?

 

[Jessica86]

Yes he has an infection. They found lots of white blood cells and red blood cells in his urine. He's getting a Convenia injection today.

 

[Larry and Kitties]

They found lots of white blood cells and red blood cells in his urine.

Did they measure the urine specific gravity? That is an excellent indication of kidney function.

 

[Jessica86]

I'm not sure. He has end stage kidney disease though and has struggled with the infections for a few years

 

[Jessica86]

Just an update. He got his Convenia injection yesterday along with his first 2 shots of insulin. We opted for the cat insulin that the vet provides instead of Glargine (Lantus) mainly because my vet and I agree that he probably doesn't have that much time left anyway (with the CKD). I'm heartbroken, he's hanging on. But he's definitely been affected by something. I'm not really sure exactly what's bringing him down specifically or it could be a combination of it all. His back legs are very weak. He can still walk wobbly and he will jump on the bed but when he jumps off its disturbing how his back legs just collapse into the floor. I wish he wouldn't but I can't stop him since he loves it on the bed I hate to ban him. I'm trying all different kinds of canned food to see what he'll eat. It's still touch and go. I'm still giving him Cerenia and Pepsid although he hasn't thrown up yet still. I still don't feel like he's eating enough especially for the insulin and I got some chicken baby food (without any extra ingredients) to syringe feed so I can give insulin. That's not fun either. I'm hoping he has some improvement over the next couple of days because I CANNOT bear seeing him look so weak for much longer. I'm trying to not stress out but it's hard when your baby doesn't feel well and you don't know if it's the end or not. Pray for my sweet boy and me. The pic was last night, he was a bit more perky than today.

 

[Jessica86]

Well it's looking bad for Taqui. Can't seem to get his blood sugar levels to lower. Every time I have them check, it's high and they told me to come back next weekend and don't feed or give him insulin before they check. They think it's just not had time for the insulin to kick in before they test... Doesn't sound right to me but whatever. They upped his dosage from 1 unit twice a day to 2 units twice a day. Other than that he's losing weight I can tell. His back legs are the weakest I've seen, it's really sad. He can't wobble for long without sitting. But he can still jump on the bed which is odd but I guess is a lot of fore leg strength. He still has an appetite, eating and drinking and peeing. His poop is hard and black which I know is from dehydration. Still getting fluids daily, will try to mix some miralax in his food. I'm thinking the end of the road is near, I can't bear to see him suffer. Pray for us!

 

[Sienne and Gabby (GA)]

What insulin is the vet suggesting?

Some insulin acts quickly and others take longer so it's helpful to know what insulin the vet used. The other factor is that most diabetic cats (well, most cats) are stressed by going to the vet's office. One of the things that effects the tests at the vet's office is stress. It's very hard to get an accurate blood glucose reading at the vet's office. It's far more accurate if you start testing at home. Here's info on home testing.

The weakness in his back legs is likely related to his diabetes. If his numbers start trending down and you supplement his diet with methylcobalamin (it's a form of B12 and fine for him) you'll see improvement over time.

Also, Convenia is unlikely to help with a UTI. I can't imagine that the culture and sensitivity came back indicating Convenia. It's only recommended for skin infections despite that vets seem to overuse it because it lasts 2 weeks. (Which is one of the problems with it. See this link for information on Convenia -- there's a section on UTIs if you scroll down.)

 

[Jessica86]

Oh wow! Thank you for this info. He's using prozinc. We opted for the cheaper insulin since the vet doesn't think he has that much time left (with his end stage CKD) but now I feel like I've made a mistake and it's costing him. Is it too late to switch insulin?

 

[Sienne and Gabby (GA)]

Prozinc is a perfectly fine insulin. Along with Lantus, they are the two types of insulin recommended by the American Animal Hospital Assn for the treatment of feline diabetes. You're good!!

If you can work on getting a spreadsheet set up and get the materials for testing at home (a meter to test blood glucose and strips for the meter) you will be ready to go. There is a forum here devoted to Prozinc users. Be aware that it will take a bit to figure out what the best dose of insulin is for Taqui. (The spreadsheet has a tab for entering your lab information.)

Getting Taqui's blood glucose (BG) into a good range is important. You want him under renal threshold since diabetes is tough on the kidneys. Just so you know, we don't give up on our kitties. We trust your judgement when you say it's time but we will also be your stalwart cheering section.

 

[Idjit's mom]

Hi Jessica and Taqui, it would be very helpful for us if you would create a signature for Taqui. The instructions are here, as well as instructions for profile (more room for more info than the signature which is space limited) and setting preferences.

Editing your Signature, Profile and Preferences

Then the spreadshseet is linked right to the signature so that when you post, or members read your posts later, we can see all Taqui's important information right away.

Here is a guide for Understanding the Spreadsheet

You may like to take a look at this link about neuropathy (weak back legs) Feline Diabetic Neuropathy (weak back legs)
There is another brand of the Methylcobalamin - aka - methyl B-12 called Vitacost that member Diane Tyler's Mom has recommended for consideration:
"If anyone wants to save money I used Zobaline until someone on here told me about this brand, it's the same thing

Hi this can save you some money on the Zobaline

For 60 pills it's 17.57 and for 100 pills its 23.92
Same thing
The only difference with the Zobaline is it has 200 mcg of folic acid
So I just buy folic acid in the store 400 mcg and cut them in half and crush it
The Vit B from Vitacost comes in capsule form it's red , so just empty it into the wet food and the folic acid , mix it up. The Zobaline is a pill so you have to crush it up
The Vitacost brand is 5000 mcg and the Zobaline is 3000 mcg that is ok
The cats will pee out what's not needed .

A lot of times the Vitacost brand has buy one get one half off and free shipping in the qty of 100 .

Hope this helps
I see the Zobaline is now 44.00 with shipping, unbelievable"

Very best wishes as you work toward better health and comfort for Taqui.

 

[Jessica86]

Thanks for all your information. I took him by the vet for glucose test and to check him out. Hisglucose is in the 400s so we're upping his insulin to 3 units twice a day. Now we're upping his fluids to 150 CC's a day and getting vitamin B12 shot and I will be giving him those shots through his Sub-Q fluids. Will be rechecking next week and probably getting a glucometer. We also upped his Miralax to help with his hard stool and giving him pet-tinic daily. We'll see how little guy does. I will also fill out the spreadsheet and signature and stuff whenever I have some time.

 

[Sienne and Gabby (GA)]

Please keep in mind that many cat's have higher numbers at the vet's office. They're stressed and the stress can drive up the numbers. If this is the case, then it's possible that the dose may be too high because it's based on stress influenced numbers. Also, sub-q fluids can lower numbers.

In other words, please get a glucometer and start home testing. Taqui has enough going on that you don't want his BG number to drop too low.