Newly Diagnosed Kitty fighting for his life. Please help!

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Re: Newly Diagnosed Kitty fighting for his life. Please help

Thank you all again. Do any of you happen to know what it is that brings out the neuropathy? He had almost zero signs of it while he stabilized for almost 2 weeks and now, it seems worse than it was when he was DKA? And I am testing his urine, still no Ketones. How did everyone here learn all of this stuff? One thing I have been noticing is hat Vets don't seem to know much about Diabetes in Cats.....you all seem much more knowledgeable . Is it from experience or endless web searches on feline diabetes?

Thank you Chris ! He is named after my favorite X-Man I love his name too! His sister is named Jubilee. The two I had before these(who live full time with my Ex :o( ) were named Storm and Phoenix.

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Re: Newly Diagnosed Kitty fighting for his life. Please help

I'm glad there are no ketones. Keep up the testing for them.
I agree, it's time to find a vet that will work with you. My J.D. was diagnosed in 2005, and we struggled to find a vet that knew very much about diabetes. I never have found one. But, I did find a vet that will work with me.
I would keep trying to get the Lantus. And keep feeding all wet low carb food.
Some of us are very experienced and have been helping people with diabetic cats for a long time.
 
Re: Newly Diagnosed Kitty fighting for his life. Please help

Everyone here has learned with their respective cats, online searches, good vets, and more, then shared what was learned.

Since we deal with it 24/7, we can immerse ourselves in it. Vets see 2 or more species with the entire gamut of conditions and are expected to stay up to date on everything. That said, vets should be open to updating their knowledge when it has been a while since studying a particular area.
 
Re: Newly Diagnosed Kitty fighting for his life. Please help

I am also confused on what I should be feeding him, how often and how much . My vet said no wet just dry and let him graze. This is CLEARLY not right ? He will literally eat all day and his blood shoots up when he eats the dry . And all these forums say wet, no dry???
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We have learned through personal experience and the day to day management of our diabetic kitties, what a difference a low carb food can make. Unfortunately, some vets still believe that dry foods such as Hill's W/d or M/d are appropriate for diabetic cats when in fact they are too high in carbs. It has been the experience of many of us here, that vets take the word of the vet food sales reps as to what foods are good for cats to eat and the vets do not keep them selves educated on nutrition.

The reason we strongly suggest wet food only, is there are very few dry foods that are low enough in carbs to make a difference in helping to control the BG levels for a diabetic cat. So it's not really wet food versus dry food. It's a matter of low carb versus high carb. We look for foods that are under 10% carb, with some cats doing better with even lower levels of carb content.

Grazing is fine. We do suggest you take the food up 2 hours before a BG test before your shot, so that BG number is not inflated by the food. Other times of day, food before a test is ok.

One thing I have been noticing is hat Vets don't seem to know much about Diabetes in Cats.....you all seem much more knowledgeable . Is it from experience or endless web searches on feline diabetes?
Click to expand...
We only have to specialize in one thing, diabetes. Plus, we live with diabetic cats on a daily basis and have learned from others what does and does not work.
 
Re: Newly Diagnosed Kitty fighting for his life. Please help

I am also confused on what I should be feeding him, how often and how much . My vet said no wet just dry and let him graze. This is CLEARLY not right ? He will literally eat all day and his blood shoots up when he eats the dry . And all these forums say wet, no dry???
Click to expand...

I had to laugh at this 'cos I have the same issue with my vet - we agreed long ago to disagree. The dry food Rep actually convinced everyone that the 28% carbs in their dry food was PERFECT for diabetics because it was the...READY?...

"The SCIENCE behind it...just the right amount of COMPLEX carbs...." Trouble is, cat's can't USE complex carbs - that was just so much poop to sell their food!

Boy I LIKE the discussions and your ideas - you got it goin' on already!!! WOOT WOOT!

BIG HUGS!
 
Re: Newly Diagnosed Kitty fighting for his life. Please help

Let me know if you want the information for my vet. He's in CM and my family has been going there for over 30 years. He's not as experienced in diabetes as the folks on this forum, but he's open to home-testing and willing to learn (and also prescribes Lantus in pen form). Mikey only visits him about once a year for an annual check-up, other than that, he has the link to Mikey's BG spreadsheet. Only downside is that he likes to push the prescription foods, but it's a rare vet you'll find who doesn't. :YMSIGH: At least he's not obnoxious about it and I just have to say, "no thanks" and they leave it at that.

Here's a letter I wrote to my vet way back when I first started this FD journey and he asked me for more information and links to all that I was learning.
 
Re: Newly Diagnosed Kitty fighting for his life. Please help

YES! May I please have your Vets info? i start a new job next week and won't be around to monitor Gambit so I have to get him on the Long Acting Insulin ASAP. He is just not regulating on the Novolin.

May I ask why no one uses Levemire (spelling) ? I went on a mission for affordable resources today and Novo Nordisk has an amazing offer now for ALL products at only 25 per fill for 2 years and a free box of needles. I have also seen a lot about the combo Insulin of Long Acting and Fast acting ....like 70/30 blends which look as though they may be the most effective at regulation . Is anyone familiar with these? I have included some links below for the resources I found to save tons of money. The first 3 are for Monitor kits at ridiculously low prices and all come with 100 strips. The rest are sources for cheap Insulin, etc.

http://www.americandiabeteswholesale.co ... 10_123.htm

http://www.americandiabeteswholesale.co ... 06_123.htm

http://www.americandiabeteswholesale.co ... 00_121.htm

http://www.needymeds.org/coupons.taf?_f ... t&letter=A

http://www.cornerstones4care.com/welcom ... d=46b21f37

http://www.diabetes.org/living-with-dia ... tance.html
 
Re: Newly Diagnosed Kitty fighting for his life. Please help

Many people here use Levemir. It's fairly "new" in being used for cats and there is no "official" established protocol (like there is for Lantus), so that is why it's not as common (yet) as Lantus is. I'm actually planning on bringing Michelangelo back into the vet within the next couple of months and convincing them to let me switch him to Levemir and be their first "guinea pig" with the Levemir. He was hesitant prescribing it over the phone because he'd never heard of it until I mentioned it; I can understand that and Mikey is due for an annual checkup soon, anyway. :-D

I've PM'd you my vet's information. Let me know how it goes! :thumbup
 
Re: Newly Diagnosed Kitty fighting for his life. Please help

cmarie787 said:
I have also seen a lot about the combo Insulin of Long Acting and Fast acting ....like 70/30 blends which look as though they may be the most effective at regulation . Is anyone familiar with these?
Click to expand...
These sound like porcine zinc/NPH style insulins and these are generally NOT recommended for cats because cats have a faster metabolism and they end up being too fast-acting for cats and wear off too quick. The only three insulins recommended for cats are Lantus, Levemir, and PZI/ProZinc.

cmarie787 said:
The first 3 are for Monitor kits at ridiculously low prices and all come with 100 strips.
Click to expand...

It's not the cost of the monitor that is expensive, but the on-going cost of the test strips. The cheapest in the US are the Arkray Glucocard or the Relion Micro/Confirm (the Arkrary rebranded for Walmart) and the ReliOn Prime (this one does require a bigger blood drop).
 
Re: Newly Diagnosed Kitty fighting for his life. Please help

HI,
I have used Levemir with two cats. Both are now OTJ. Both used ProZinc originally, but we switched to Levemir when we encountered shortage of ProZinc. I like both insulin. Actually, I like the Levemir flexpens a lot because of their cost effectiveness.

Best of luck to you and your sweet kitty,
Sophie
 
Re: Newly Diagnosed Kitty fighting for his life. Please help

The Lantus savings card will also get you each pen for $25 for the first 6, I believe. The info is here: http://www.lantus.com/sign-up/offers

The cost of the strips is essential to consider. We used a Relion Confirm and bought the generic Arkray strips from ADW. If you want to try to get your cat off of insulin, the Tight Regulation Protocol is the way to go. The goal with Tight Regulation is to try to get the cat's blood sugar into normal numbers (50-120) so that the pancreas can heal and begin producing insulin again. Cats are unique in that ability - dogs and people usually are not able to have their pancreas heal and go off insulin in the same way that cats can. Following the TRP requires a minimum of 4 tests a day - both preshots and a mid-cycle test. Sometimes you end up testing more. It's an investment of time, for certain, but the study has had great success rates at getting cats regulated and off of insulin. That protocol is used with both Lantus and Levemir - people here use both.

You need a different prescription for pens versus a vial. You probably want to try to get just 1 pen - you'll have to call around to pharmacies to find someone who will break up a box and just sell one pen. pharmacies who provide to nursing homes and hospitals often will do that. There's no rhyme or reason - one chain pharmacy will break them up, another won't. but it's worth the phone calls.

This site has been around since 2009 - you'll see quite a few members who all joined in December 2009 when it began. But it existed on another site prior to that, and i believe before that it was a listserve. There is already a lot of knowledge gathered here and people look up research to keep up to date on the latest on feline diabetes and the medical conditions that often appear concurrent with FD. The experienced people teach others. It's a pass it on thing. Once you've lived and breathed FD you understand it. Having taken care of a diabetic cat you learn how the insulin works in their little bodies - what works and doesn't work. Although cats do vary, there are some things that really important - low carb canned food being one of those things. So we've learned and we teach others.

Keep asking questions!
 
Re: Newly Diagnosed Kitty fighting for his life. Please help

The Lantus savings card is only good for the first 3 prescriptions now. :cry:
 
Re: Newly Diagnosed Kitty fighting for his life. Please help

Christie, i hadn't opened the links to ADW you provided before. Just did that. Some of the meters with TRUE in their name are not as accurate as the rest. I see the first link is to True Track, the second to True Balance, the third to Vertex UltraTrack (i've never heard of that one.) I don't know specifically about those, but here is a set of links here on the "New to the Group" page at the top of the Tight Regulation insulin support group page that have reports on glucose meters.

I would stick with one of the known to be accurate ones. Don't get a Freestyle, though - we started with one and i loved it, but it doesn't measure the highs with cats blood. Not helpful.

Given that you're on a tight budget, i'd recommend one of the Relion meters and then purchasing the strips and other supplies through ADW. If you go first to http://www.mrrebates.com you can register there and you'll get a rebate every so often on the amount you've bought at ADW.

As far as the neuropathy, that is something that can really improve. People give their cats Zobaline for it - it's available via Amazon, maybe in your local pet store, i don't know. But that particular one is safe for diabetic cats. When you are able to start Gambit on it, you should see improvement.

I hope you can get switched to Lantus or Lev. If you can, I'd invite you to post in the Lantus/Lev Tight Regulation Insulin Support Group. There is a lot of traffic there and people will help you understand what you need to know to help Gambit get healthy again. Not every cat goes off of insulin, but Gambit can get regulated so he's as healthy as possible.
 
Re: Newly Diagnosed Kitty fighting for his life. Please help

Hi Christie,
I was just reading your posts and you say you are still trying to get Lantus for your kitty? In your initial post you mentioned your first vet gave you a script for Lantus...do you still have that script?
 
Re: Newly Diagnosed Kitty fighting for his life. Please help

KPassa said:
As to meters, the ReliOn brand from Walmart is a favorite around here because the strips are so cheap. The ReliOn Primes are the cheapest but do require a bit more blood than the ReliOn Micro/Confirm that requires the least amount of blood. I usually go to the Walmart Neighboorhood Grocery on Beach and Atlanta for my feline diabetic needs. They sell the insulin I use (Lantus) one pen at a time and they honor the Lantus savings card (works out to $25 a pen up to 5 pens; 15mLs for $125).
Click to expand...

In case you missed this earlier in the thread, this is the Walmart I go to. ;-)
 
Re: Newly Diagnosed Kitty fighting for his life. Please help

This link I had included with the others ------> http://www.cornerstones4care.com/welcom ... d=46b21f37 , was for a Lev Savings Card , but I realize it didn't link directly to the Savings Card registration...apologies.
This link ------> http://www.cornerstones4care.com/AboutD ... px?index=1 is to the diresct sign up page
and the savings card allows for almost any of their Insulin products at 25$ a fill for 2 years. It also offers a free box of needles / syringes with the firs purchase. The Lantus card was initially only for 6 months, however, it has been reduced to 3 as someone previously posited. That is why I am leaning towards Lev VS Lantus. For now, I am getting the Lantus Pen tonight.( I convinced my Vet to call in the RX)


Step one: Get Gambit's Blood Glucose regulated
Step Two: Discover the magical cure for Feline Diabetes and pretty much save the world!!!!

Baby Steps :o)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ncFCdCjBqcE&authuser=2
 
Re: Newly Diagnosed Kitty fighting for his life. Please help

The first Vet who gave me a Lantus Script wrote it for the Vile and refused to give me one for the Pen, which is what the coupon is good for and in turn, the pharmacy refused to fill it for the pen because it was written for the vile. Long story short, that RX was ripped up and thrown on the floor of my local Rite Aide amidst a slurry of very loud profanities. Clearly, not my proudest moment.
 
Re: Newly Diagnosed Kitty fighting for his life. Please help

All right, first step is done: getting a Lantus pen prescription (but you haven't bought the Lantus yet, right?). Print out a Lantus Savings Card so when you fulfill your prescription, you only have to pay $25.

Step 2: testing times and testing supplies. First, you want to test at minimum 3-4 times a day -- Every pre-shot, a mid-cycle test (when possible), and a before-bed test. That equals out to about 35-40 strips a week with bad test strips and additional testing you might do. Two weeks' time, you'll be out of those 100 test strips and having to purchase more or switch to a different meter. This is why we recommend the ReliOn/Arkray brand because the test strips are $36 for a 100 (Confirm/Micro/Glucocard01) or $18 for a 100 (Prime, which requires a bit more blood).

Both the First and Second step can be accomplished at Walmart.

Third step: you switched to low carb, wet food this week. This means Gambit's numbers have probably dropped already. You're also only feeding 2 meals a day. Start feeding him smaller more frequent meals and add water to the food (if you're not already). What food are you feeding him now?

You are having some difficulty testing. Are you giving him plenty of treats during test time? We recommend using freeze-dried pure protein treats. Most cats go berzerk over them and it helps with the testing process. You can get some Simply Nourish brand freeze-dried chicken dog treats for ridiculously cheap at the PetSmart (or is it PetCo?) over between the Michael's and TJ's on 17th street.
 
Re: Newly Diagnosed Kitty fighting for his life. Please help

I have been alternating between Friskies and Fancy Feast for his Wet Food. And, I am being super honest in saying that there is no way that the testing will be done as often and regimented as it should be. It's just a nightmare. I would almost be easier to train him to do the tests himself , than it is for me right now! Not even slices of Filet Mignon would detour him from the poking and trying to get blood. I use his paws, not the Ear, but it's hard to get the drop out....I have to squeeze his paw pretty tightly and for quite a while to get the little drop and it's one shot. If it doesn't work the first time, it's over.

The Lantus starts today as he had already had one of his Novolin shots yesterday and I didn't want to chance anything.

Regarding the treats, I buy the freeze dried Turkey and duck ones you are talking abut from Petsmart. Last week , they were all 96 cents VS 5 bucks a bag and the cashier said they were being discontinued :o(

I really appreciate all the help and the Vet info and rescheduling....truly. Do you know if your Vet does the all day Pet Testing / Monitoring and Blood Curve? That's what he is scheduled to have for the upcoming Vet visit and I want this done as well since I am not having much success doing it myself at home.
 
Re: Newly Diagnosed Kitty fighting for his life. Please help

I was feeling just like you. Ears were hard, switched to paws and that was harder, switched back to ears and it got easier. It really did. I had to work really hard to keep *myself calm* and that probably helped my cat. Testing is much easier for us if she is face planted in a bowl of breakfast. And be sure to not short cut the warming step.

Hang in there. Little by little it should get easier.
 
Re: Newly Diagnosed Kitty fighting for his life. Please help

Since you are having a lot of trouble blood testing, you want to start with a low dose on the Lantus like 0.5 to 1.0 units.

Also, take a look at my signature link Secondary Monitoring Tools. Monitoring water consumption, urine glucose, and urine ketones can be used to very slowly guide dosing decisions when you can't blood test. It is a much older protocol, but better than nothing.
 
Re: Newly Diagnosed Kitty fighting for his life. Please help

Hi Christie!

Everyone who comes here says almost the exact same thing about testing! (although I think you're the first one I've ever seen to suggest it'd be easier to teach the cat to test themselves...What an idea!!! :lol: :lol: )

What most cats react to isn't really the poking. It's that you're touching their ears. They seem to hate it, so the "trick" is to get them used to having their ears fooled with. Decide on one place that works best for you to test and take Gambit there as often as possible, and just give his ears a quick rub and then give him a yummy treat. Freeze dried chicken, boiled chicken, deli meats (no sugar or salt) are all good choices, but there are many other Low Carb Treats you can try. As he gets more used to having his ears touched, and gets rewarded for letting you do it, he'll soon learn to associate that "testing spot" with the yummy treats, and won't pay any attention to what you're doing with his ears. Another thing I've suggested to people is to sing to yourself. It occupies your brain so you tend to relax. Cats feed off our emotions, so if you approach them already scared and worried, that's what they're going to pick up on. I promise you it really works, and it gets much easier!!

As for the all day Pet testing/monitoring at your vets office, that's called a glucose curve, and besides costing a lot of money to pay a vet to do it, it's not going to really give you much in the way of useful information. When a cat is under stress, like at the vets office, their blood glucose readings can go up as much as 200 points. The vet see's these artificially inflated numbers and assumes the cat isn't getting enough insulin and tells you to increase. You return home, Gambit calms down and you're overdosing him...which can lead to tragic consequences.

Give the desensitization a try for a few days and see if he starts to relax when he's on his "testing spot". If you can get to the point where you can test him without problems, you can do a curve at home to get a really accurate view of how the insulin is working.

I promise if you took the time to go back to everyone's first few days here, you'd hear the exact same story about testing. Almost without fail, within a week or so, they're all telling someone else new that it IS possible, their cats don't hate them, and a lot of the times, the cat starts going to their special spot on their own to remind us it's time to test!!
 
Re: Newly Diagnosed Kitty fighting for his life. Please help

Chris is right - all of us hated testing at first. cats too. i remember people telling me their cats came to a "testing spot" when they shook the little bottle of test strips. i never thought that would be us - and it wasn't! the first couple of weeks i had to pull punkin out from under furniture, hoping i didn't dislocate his little arms. then i took a giant beach towel and wrapped him up so tightly in it he couldn't move. that freed my hands.

then i tested. he was a little bundle of tied up shrimp-like kitty burrito, stuck and immobile on my lap while i fumbled around. i had everything ready, of course, but still. it was just plain hard.

but i was Committed with a capital C. I wasn't going to fail at this because i didn't want my cat to die from hypoglycemia.

then day 4, i realized that it was already easier.

by 2 weeks, he gave up fighting and i stopped burrito-wrapping him. while he never came running when it was time, he did tolerate it. Then launched himself away from me the second i was done. He had to make statement. And i always gave him a treat. Freeze dried treats weren't even mentioned here when i started - i simmered plain chicken breasts and gave him a piece after every treat. sometimes i gave him a pinch of lunchmeat cuz he liked it so much - it has sugar in it, so not much, but hey, i liked to make him happy.

what is super important to know is that Gambit's ears will grow more capillaries as they are poked. so NOBODY gets blood every time the first couple of weeks. but after regular poking for 2 weeks, the capillaries have grown and you'll begin to get blood every time.

it gets infinitely easier. really. all of us here are testaments to that - none of us started out any differently than you are. it is a discouraging thing to start with, but we can all promise you that it gets better.
 
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