Newly Diagnosed Kitty and his mom

Status
Not open for further replies.
K

KukaaKatchou

Member Since 2013
Hello all!
I have two elderly cats - Diego, age 12 and Monty, age 13. Over the Christmas holidays Monty's liver shut down, but with syringe feeding and some meds he came out the other side looking pretty good. Now Diego has been diagnosed with diabetes. I took him to the vet in December for a stuffed nose that wasn't getting better. 2 courses of antibiotics later he was the same. Recently I noticed he was shakey on his legs and walking funny. Back to the vet we go for a slew of blood tests. The vet called me last night (on a Sunday!) and told me that he isn't getting better because of the diabetes. I go to see the vet this morning to discuss treatment. The "good" news is that I am diabetic and so I am familiar with BG testing, insulin, highs and lows, and so on. From what I have managed to read on the site and the message boards, feline diabetes resembles human diabetes quite a bit. I do have some concerns / questions:
1. I'm planning to switch Diego to a canned food diet. Monty has food allergies that result in internal bleeding, so I'm a bit hesitant to change his diet (Royal Canin Digestive Comfort). If Diego grazes on some of Monty's dry food, how much will it mess with his numbers?
2. If the vet says I can use Lantus (which I use for myself), is there a reason why I can't use the pen delivery system instead of a syringe?
3. If I switch Diego to the canned food, I assume I should hold off a bit on the insulin to see what his numbers do? Or should I start the insulin at the same time and test his BG often?

That's all for now. I'm busy printing out information from the site to take to the vets with me this morning. Any advice, hints, information is more than welcome! I'm a bit freaked out about all of this, but it is good to see a community of people and kitties sharing their experiences.
 
Saying welcome. 12 and 13 are not that old. My oldest diabetic is 18 and two are 15.
now to your question:
1. I'm planning to switch Diego to a canned food diet. Monty has food allergies that result in internal bleeding, so I'm a bit hesitant to change his diet (Royal Canin Digestive Comfort). If Diego grazes on some of Monty's dry food, how much will it mess with his numbers?
Answer: The dry will raise the BG. The worse this is that if he only occasionally eats the dry you will get inconsistent BGs which makes it hard to get the right dose
2. If the vet says I can use Lantus (which I use for myself), is there a reason why I can't use the pen delivery system instead of a syringe?
Answer. Yes, you can use the pen delivery system for Diego. The problem is that the pen only dispensed in 1 unit increments and many cats need increments of 1/2 or 1/4 units. Also, I tried using the pen for my high-does Tonis but found the syringe easier to use. You can draw the Lantus from the pen by just inserting the syringe needle when the pen needle goes. However, that frequently results in introducing some air in the pen which makes using the pen delivery system inaccurate. I would just mostly finish a pen for yourself and then use the remainder for Diego.
3. If I switch Diego to the canned food, I assume I should hold off a bit on the insulin to see what his numbers do? Or should I start the insulin at the same time and test his BG often?
Answer: Yes, canned food should lower the insulin dose required. It depends upon how high the BGs are. If very high like above 400 I would start with canned and insulin and test before each shot and in between shots to find the lowest BG.
 
Hello.
Switching to a low carb canned can reduce his numbers by 100 or so right away. It's good to do the switch to canned before you even start insulin.

Many vets advise starting at a higher dose than cats need so we'll have to wait and see what your vet advises. The amount is determined by weight but some vets
seem to advise based on how high the bg number is when they are diagnosed.
Sounds like you may have to feed them in different rooms so the diabetic one doesn't eat the other food.
I'm betting you will be able to find something they both can eat with a little research and more advise from others here.

I know you can draw the insulin from the pen ( just like you would from a vial) .
Dosing changes are always in 0.25u or 0.50u increments. If you increase or decrease in whole units, you can miss the ideal dose. You will want syringes with half unit markings.
 
Hello and welcome to the board

When you switch to a canned food, ensure its a low carb one like Fancy feast classic pates, Friskies pates or Wellness grain free. Here are more options - you are looking at a carb % under 10% of carbs.: http://www.catinfo.org/docs/FoodChartPublic9-22-12.pdf. Dry food is going to keep spiking his blood glucose.

I understand that the Lantus pen delivery system can be inaccurate when trying to dose smaller amounts. Being off by 1/2IU is ok for a human but can mess with a cat. Best to use syringes for Diego.

You should home test too. Unlike humans, cats pancreas can heal and go into remission (diet controlled) or require less insulin over time. So you need to test before every shot and spot checks for nadir (low point) to make sure you can catch this and adjust the dose if necessary. Human meters are fine. Many people here use the relion brand from walmart since its cheap. ($16 meter and 50 strips for $9).

Wendy
 
Wow thank you for all the great feedback.
I met with the vet this morning. Diego's sugars at the lab test came back as 35mmol / 630mg!! When I tested him before his first shot, he was at 22.8mmol /410mg, after a few days on primarily canned food. I had started him on canned food "just in case". The vet started him on 2 units of Lantus, every 12 hours. He got his first shot tonight and not a peep out of him. I also have an antibiotic to give him so he doesn't get an infection while we are waiting for his plugged nose/sinuses to clear up. I did learn that a) his ears are paper thin and b) I need to grab a thicker roll of fat.
 
Great job getting a test at home! 2u is a relatively high starting dose, unless Diego is overweight or a very large kitty - you may want to keep an eye on him and test him throughout the cycle, maybe a test 2-3 hours after the shot and another one a few hours later, just to make sure he's not going too low. :-D
 
I used the table of canned food from a site link to choose some Friskies cans - tried to stay under 10 carbs. I'll test his BG again in a bit - I think I may have missed the first injection - not a big enough pinch. He started pretty high in BG but I'll be keeping a close eye on him. I'd rather he be a bit on the high side than risk him going low. Diego lost weight and is around 8-9 pounds at the moment. The first draw for BG freaked me out a bit - I think I might have pierced his ear. And I didn't get a big enough pinch to make sure the needle was well in for the shot ... poor dude might be a pin cushion if I don't get the hang of it soon. Please tell me I'm not the only one whose cat has some extra holes ....
 
2.0 units does seem a bit high. For Lantus, the "starting dose" formula is 0.25 unit per kg of the cat's ideal weight.
 
KukaaKatchou said:
Please tell me I'm not the only one whose cat has some extra holes ....
Click to expand...
Oh no way! Just for the heck of it, take a look at Gobbles' SS -- each block with numbers in it (and some have 2) means a test was taken--there are a lot of people here who test a lot. Especially when we see a low number--testing saves lives....If I wouldn't have tested Gobbles at +6 yesterday (that means 6 hours past his shot), he may have went into a hypo coma--he was at 40! It is my fault because I hadn't got a test since his preshot test. It is so comforting to hear you know how to test!
 
Nope you are not the only one with a kitty with a few extra holes in the beginning when I started testing my first one (I've had 4) it took me about a week to even get enough blood for a reading. :-D Now I can be sound asleep, roll over test Autumn, roll back over and go back to sleep. It does get much easier but like any new skill it takes practice. And Autumn gets tested on average 6-8 times a day. Just look at a lot of spreadsheets and you are going to see tons and tons of tests on kitties. And I will tell you after nearly a year of testing my Autumn you wouldn't know which ear I just tested unless you saw me do it.

Mel, Maxwell, Autumn & The Fur Gang
 
I think I could hang some nifty pirate earrings from his new ear holes ... I'm trying not to go through but dang he has skinny ears LOL
 
Are you using a lancet device or free handing? If free handing then try going in at a 45 degree angle and you might not go through..
 
Just wanted to say Welcome and you're doing a great job! :thumbup

Lucian and I have only been at this a little over 2 months and yes, testing was the hardest for us. I still manage to pierce his ear a couple times a week :o , but I'm shakey and can't help it. I do put a tiny bit of neosporin on both sides of the ear to heal it. Lucian has very thin ears too. :sad: Not sure if you're in the US, neosporin, if you don't have it, is a triple antibiotic ointment that you get over the counter. I'm sure you have something similar. :-D

If the testing seems to bother him, there are a lot of people that use the neosporin with pain relief a couple minutes beforehand, then wipe off and test.

You're doing great and if you need help, there are many here with big hearts and lots of experience to help you.

Here's to healthy, happy kitties! drinking24
 
Well, onto Day 2! I think I have a handle on the testing. Diego's numbers didn't change since the shot yesterday so I'm thinking I did a "fur shot". Hopefully I did better this morning. You know your kitty isn't feeling well when he lets you poke at his ear several times and then pull on chunks ok skin (and tons of fur) to get a nice little tent of skin. Fingers crossed I got the darn insulin into him this time. It makes ALL the difference knowing that I am not alone in having difficulties with this. THANK you again!
 
Good Morning ~O) Sounds like you're getting to be a "ole pro" with the testing :thumbup
What is your first name & where are you located?
Can you keep us posted on his numbers? Say for example, "kitty kat" had these numbers:

3/11 AMPS 300 (BG immediately preceding morning shot)
+6 200 (6 hours past morning shot)
PMPS 250 (immediately preceding night shot)
3/12 AMPS 325

You are doing AWESOME! What a coincidence that Momma is on the same insulin! And remember: the only dumb question is the one you don't ask! Have a wonderful day!
Kat (& Gobbles)
 
You're doing great and Welcome to the Vampire Club!!! (betcha never thought you would hear that one. :lol: )

It does get easier, much easier, so much so that even though I have 12 non-diabetic cats I have adopted 2 diabetics as diabetics. Trust me if this wasn't a easy disease to manage at home I would not have taken on one let alone 2 with the zoo I already had. In a couple more weeks you will be an old pro and wonder what all the fuss was about.

Mel, Maxwell, Autumn & The Fur Gang
 
MommaOfMuse said:
I have 12 non-diabetic cats I have adopted 2 diabetics as diabetics.
Click to expand...
Oh Mel~you are such a good person! Wow~I applaud you & thank you for mothering so many little fur children cat_pet_icon
 
My name is Stacey, and Diego and I are located near Montreal, Quebec, Canada.
Once I am sure I am actually getting the insulin into Diego, I will start a spreadsheet :)
 
Well then welcome Stacey! Oh gosh, we love Quebec ~ husband, daughter & I have stayed at an Outfitter outside of La Tuque a few times now :mrgreen: We've also stayed at B&B's in Tros-Rivieres on our way there--such a quaint little town :-D
 
Am I safe to assume when I test a few hours after insulin, if the numbers haven't changed, that I did another fur shot? GRRRR he's gonna get shaved if I don't get a handle on this soon.
 
Depends on how long after the shot those few hours are most of the longer gentle insulins don't have an onset until about 3 hours after injection. With my own girl her onset isn't until +5 but her nadir isn't until +12 as she is on Levermir...every cat seems to have their own idea of when its going to kick in and where it wants to put its nadir. After you have been testing for awhile you will learn your kitty's individual patterns.

Mel, Maxwell, Autumn & The Fur Gang
 
What readings are you getting? It might not be a fur shot, she might just not be getting enough - if we look at them we may be able to tell but keep testing every 2-3 hours and we will see.
 
Mar 11/ 5:22pm - 22.3 *Lantus 2 units
Mar 11/ 8:06pm - 24.5
Mar 11 / 9:47pm - 23.8
Mar 12 / 5:06am - 23.6
Mar 12 / 8:55am - 24.3 *Lantus 2 units
Mar 12 / 3:34pm - 26.9

I suspect that I messed up giving the shot because the numbers are fairly stable. I sispect Diego snacked on some of Monty's dry food while I was at work and that is why the last reading is a bit higher.
 
What makes you think you messed up the shot? Can you smell insulin from the fur? Were your fingers wet afterward when you touched the injection site?

I do see a slight issue. You need to give the shot every 12 hours give or take 30minutes. Looks to me you shot at 5pm and then 9am? Should be 12hours apart.

How often does he get into the dry food? Could it be more often than you think? That wont help.

And what meter are you using?

Lastly - at these levels you should start testing his pee for ketones

Wendy
 
I think I messed up because the numbers are not showing any improvement. With 2 units of Lantus, I should be seeing a gradual drop about 3 hours after shot I think.
I'm using the Accu-Chek Mobile unit because that's what I use for my diabetes.
 
ok 3 hours after shot he has gone from 26.9 to 22.8. So ... I am hopeful that I got the meds into his body this time *fingers crossed*
 
No access to dry at all?

Good job on the spreadsheet by the way! However I am not sure you are filling the sheet in right.. just to explain:

  • - AMPS/column B is the test immediately before the shot in the morning
    - the + are the hours after the shot. So if you shoot at 5am then AMPS+1 is 6am , AMPS+2 is 7am and so on
    - PMPS /column O is the test before the shot at night (12 hours after the am shot) so for tonite you would put 26.9 (484) in column O
    - Column P "U" is for your PM dose - in this case 2 units
    - then the hours after PMPS work in the same way as AM - you said you did a test 3 hours after the PM shot (22.8 or 410) so you would put that reading in column S

Hope that makes sense?

Wendy
 
Great that makes much more sense now. I assume you can't get any tests during the day?

I would like you to move over and start posting on the lantus tight regulation forum , whether you want to follow that protocol or not, it's very active and there are a lot of experinced members there who can advise on dose and help out.
http://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewforum.php?f=9

It's good she is coming down, be very interesting to see where she is tomorrow am.
 
I'm a teacher, so depending on my schedule I can sometimes come home and test, but not always.
My guy is afraid of needles and blood so its going to be solely my job.
I'm trying to figure out how I can do this without waking up every 2.5 hours all night to test Diego's blood. Because that isn't good for MY sugars :)
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top