Newly diagnosed in Johnstown, PA

Status
Not open for further replies.
L

Lynn D

Member Since 2013
Hi everyone! I've been lurking here, reading and trying to learn, for the past week or so. Our eldest cat, Dude, was diagnosed about a month ago and we have been struggling since. Testing has been a chore, 75% of the time we are not successful but since I was told to try a larger gauge lancet, and tried that today, we had 3 successful tests!!!!

Dude is 10 and is a large, neutered, red Maine Coon. His normal weight is 18-19#, right now he is at 13.5 which is the reason he was taken to the vet and tested. He's my dry food addict, if that bowl went empty he sat in front of it and cried. His BG 7am morning was 463, administered 3 units vetsulin before breakfast; 1130am 297; 230pm 119! But at 530pm he was at 404, administered 3 units before dinner.

We have a household of 5 cats, in addition to Dude we have 2 other 7 year old Maine Coon brothers, Bobby (Brown Tabby) and Moose, a huge Silver boy (22#) and two little gray tabby rescues, both spayed females, and very tiny, Baby is 3 and Dylan is 1. We are quite the crew when we hit the road for vacation....we bought a camper so that we can take the 'kids' with us and so we can get away a bit, my job is so stressful and encompassing that this is about the only way I can do so.

Feeding was a can of Friskies and a can or Fancy Feast, total of 8.5 oz. split between the 5 of them, twice daily. Now they are fed 2 cans of Friskies and Dude gets a can of FF Classic, 14 Oz total, split between the 5 of them at 7am and 6pm. In addition they get a half cup of the YAZC midday. Bedtime they get treats, usually Temptations, Dude gets YA or other low carb treat.
 
Vetsulin, aka Canininsulin, was developed to work on dogs. Cats have a substantially faster metabolism than dogs and that insulin tends to produce erratic results for them. Lantus, Levemir, and ProZinc all last about 12 hours in cats and are preferred for that reason.

We have an online spreadsheet chart which is useful for tracking your test data and sharing it for feedback.

For now, it is helpful to note your test data like this:
AMPS - morning pre-shot test when done
PMPS - even ing pre-shot test when done
+1 - test taken 1 hour after insulin shot, if done
+2 - test taken 2 hours after insulin shot, if done
Etc.
 
Using our format:
463 @ 7:00 am, administered 3 units vetsulin
297@ +4.5 (11:30am)
119 @ +7.5 (2:30pm)
404 @ +10.5 (5:30pm) administered 3 units before dinner.

The 119 is a safe level, so no problem there.
Being in the 400s at pre-shots just shows that the insulin doesn't work well for cats. Some folks have resorted to giving it every 8 hours to control the glucose levels.
 
Oh - we use that time reference format because folks are in different time zones and that way folks don't have to translate the time :smile:
 
Congratulations on your successful tests! Being able to monitor the numbers will help you see if the insulin duration is a problem. Looking forward to hearing how its going for you and Dude.
 
Hi Lynn and Sugardude Dude! Welcome to the FDMB. Lots of experience with diabetic kitties here to help you. Please, ask all the questions you need to.

Yeah for successful tests with the bigger gauge lancets!!!! :RAHCAT Sometimes, those "For Alternate Test Site" lancets can make a big difference, especially when you are starting out.

Cats have their best chance of being a diet controlled diabetic in the first 6 months. That is another reason we suggest the better insulins like Lantus, Levimir and Prozinc. Vetsulin only has a 20-30% remission rate in cats per this article/slideshow from the University of Queensland, top researchers in the field.

Since a cat is more than their BG (blood glucose) numbers, we like to get a WCR or Whole Cat Report. The 5 P's, peeing, pooping, purring, preening, playing as well as the appetite give you and us a good idea of how Dude is doing.

So, how is Dude doing today?
 
Hello and welcome to the board! Sounds like you are all set up minus the handy dandy spreadsheet which wil help us and you track trends and be better able to see whats going on...

wendy
 
Are your concerns on the Vetsulin based on the new, reintroduced Vetsulin? The reason I ask is that I don't want to be blindsided by her if she says that this was the case with the previous formulary. I have been thinking of asking her about Lantus, I need to poke around on the Lantus board to see how that is working for folks. I am diabetic but mostly control it with diet, but, because I have issues with dawn phenomena I have a RX for it, (but it is a pen). I do not ever use it all each month I throw some away, would I be able to share that with Dude?
 
The original Vetsulin was withdrawn due to quality control issues in production. The 'new' Vetsulin has the QC issues resolved; it does not have any difference in the constituent components. It still performs the same way in cats ... not well.

And yes, you'd be able to use your Lantus leftovers for your cat.
How much does he weigh?
Is he overweight, underweight or at his ideal weight?
 
The "New" Vetsulin, is little different than the old formulation. The reason it was withdrawn from the market, was the manufacturer had quality control issues at it's manufacturing facility and the FDA made them pull it from the market. Nothing much changed, except they tightened up their protocols at the manufacturing level to get a consistent product.

According to the company, the updated Vetsulin product has the same characteristics as the original insulin preparation, and the action in diabetic patients is expected to be the same as before. There have been no changes in the safety profile of Vetsulin for use in either dogs or cats.

The only difference in the Vetsulin itself is a slight change in the listed proportion of the short-acting amorphous fraction and long-acting crystalline fraction. The short-acting amorphous fraction is now listed as 35% (it was 30%), whereas the long-acting crystalline fraction is now reported as 65% (it was 70%).
Click to expand...

The duration in cats has not increased. Vetsulin still does not last long enough in cats. Good for dogs though, with their slower metabolisms.

If you want to spend some time using the Vetsulin with your cat, that is certainly an option. You want to test often enough to find the duration with your cat. Perhaps, your cat will be one of the rare cats that gets 12 hours duration from the Vetsulin.

I do not see how reducing the amount of long acting insulin in Vetsulin is going to help a cat, since the original problems with using this in a cat was it's short duration.

If you have a Lantus pen for yourself, you certainly could share it with Dude. You want to use insulin syringes to draw from the pen, not the needle tips. Storage of the Lantus in the fridge, and people can and do use those Lantus pens to the last drop. The 28 day limit was because the manufacturer never did trials beyond that point to find out if the insulin would keep longer.
 
Thanks, for the info, I didn't realize that about the reason for Vetsulin's 'reformulation' nor that nothing much was really done.

Dude's Nadir appears to be at about 7.5 hours, he is at his lowest at that time and then he starts to climb again, the vet is well aware of that, she is the one that told me to check him at 2pm (knowing that his initial shot is at 7am, so she wanted a +7 test.

My Lantus is only refrigerated until it is opened, it is then able to be stored in a cupboard, but it is only viable for 28 days. If you keep it refrigerated then it is good until the expiration date on the bottle or pen. I only keep it in the cupboard for convenience since I only take it at bedtime, but will keep it in the fridge. I will need to talk to the vet about it and the dosage. I probably have the wrong syringes, I have the ones for 40 units, will I need the 100 unit ones?
 
The best syringes to use for Lantus in the cat are

U100 syringes 3/10 cc and make sure they have the 1/2 unit markings, you also have a choice of long or short needles - my personal preference is the short needle

so the package reads like this

U-100. 0.3 cc 31 gauge x 5/16" length
 
If you keep the Lantus refrigerated, it is good longer than the 28 days it says on the label. Unopened Lantus should always be refrigerated. Once you open the Lantus vial or pen, you can extend the life beyond the 28 days if you keep it refrigerated. If you do that, you should be able to use the pens for Dude, good until the last drop.

As Hillary as already said, yes you need different needles. Lantus is a different concentration, what is called a U-100 insulin. So you need matching U-100 needles.
 
If you change to lantus we will need to look at dose. I think BJ asked but I dont remmeber seeing the answer - what weight is Dude and would you consider that a good weight or could he do with gaining or losing? We base dose on his ideal weight.

Wendy
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top