Newly Diagnosed...help!

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colleen & smoke

Member Since 2013
Hi everyone! I have been directed to come here, and from what I can tell, this seems to be a great resource with all you willing to be so helpful. I hope I can learn enough, too, so I can go on to lend some of my own insight along the way. My cat was just diagnosed yesterday (12 yr old male) and I have a few questions, as I am a bit overwhelmed, and honestly, confused, too. I hope these questions aren't too repetitive, but here it goes:

1. My vet wants to do about a month and half on diet change alone before retesting and then seeing if insulin is needed. Is this a common method? What if he needs insulin now?
2. We picked up the food today (Purina D/M, of course ;) ) and I was wondering how you all go about a food schedule. I have two other cats, so there will be no free feeding, but are meal times set? She gave us both wet and dry food, so any guidelines and suggestions would be great. (my cat is about 7 lbs)

I'm sure i'll have many more questions as time goes on and i look forward to being a part of this forum. Thank you in advance; I know this will be a heavily appreciated life-line for both myself and my cat.
 
Hi there. Welcome. Tell us more. What is his blood glucose reading? What symptoms does Mr Smoke have?

Ive been here a few months now. You will find what you need here.

Dry food is not good.

donaleen
 
Hello and welcome to the board!

Your vet is recommending to try diet alone as many cats can go into remission on a food change. However the new food needs to be low carb ie under 10% calories from carbs. Unfortunately most dry foods are too high carb (including the Purina DM dry) - as are some wet. And many cats get sick of the Purina DM wet food because it is liver flavour.

We can recommend many wet foods that are lower carb - there is a list here - anything in column C (% calories from carbs t) that is under 10% is good): http://www.catinfo.org/docs/FoodChartPublic9-22-12.pdf. However many of us here feed fancy feast classic pates, friskies pates or wellness grain free canned and have had a lot of success with it. And good news about those, except for price, is you can feed it to all your cats!

The food change can bring the cat down within a week into normal range - best way to know if this is the case is to home test his blood. Did your vet discuss that?

Wendy
 
Hello and welcome to the board! Would you share your first name and your cat's name with us please?

My name is Deb and the tuxie pictured to the right is Wink, my 10 year old foster sugarhunk. He is a diet controlled kitty and eats the Fancy Feast classic pates and Friskies pates. That is how I got him OTJ, off-the-juice, in remission, diet controlled.

Six weeks sounds like a really long time to me for a diabetic cat to go with only a diet change to see if that will bring the numbers down. We usually recommend a diet change to the low carb, <10% carb foods for a week or two. If no change, then it's time for your vet to prescribe insulin, IMHO.

The insulin shots will help support his pancreas and let it heal. The sooner that can happen, the better. A diet change is a great first step.

Are there complicating medical conditions for your cat? CKD, IBD, steroid use, infection or inflammation? Had a dental lately?
 
Hi! My name is Colleen and Smoke is the newly diagnosed. He's 12 years old, blue domestic short hair.

He started losing weight (about 2.5 lbs) despite a strong appetite, so we brought him in thinking it was hyperthyroid. Now we have the diabetes diagnosis, which was our second thought. I thought the six weeks seemed a little long, too, so I'll see if we can do the retest within the next 2-3 weeks.

I should clarify that about 2 weeks before we took him in, I started him on the Fancy Feast "Classics" labels when I was doing preliminary research. But, I wasn't aware of the dry food (he has 2 brothers so they have been accustomed to having a bowl out all day....terribly wrong, I know). I didn't get the specific numbers from the vet (but I will), though his blood glucose and urine count was high. No mention of home testing or anything like that yet....vet wants to try diet change first. Thyroid was actually a little low. Otherwise, no other issues except for blindness in one eye (cataract).

So, since yesterday, he's been on the Purina D/M wet food and all dry food has been removed. I have both the wet and dry Purina, but he's being picky all day today putting up quite a fuss about food.(He likes wet food, but I know he's itching for some of the dry). I am trying to get him on a schedule of eating about 3 times a day but I really don't know if I'm going about this the right way. Any tips in that field would be great and please tell me if I am doing something wrong! We're still in the phase of diet change (wet) and no insulin as of now.
 
I can give you one tip: Crush some of the dry food and use it as "sprinkles" on top of the wet food. Keep some around for those times when someone really needs it. My sugar cat, Ozy, eats without a problem. One of my non-sugar cats (who is quite thin) sometimes needs that treat, but less and less.

As for how much, and how often, well, I am still struggling with that for Ozy. He is a bit overweight and loves to eat. How about your sugar cat?

donaleen
 
That is a really good tip- thanks. I'm sure that will come in handy during this transition.

Right now, he weighs a bit less than we would like (he's always been smaller, but he's down from 9 lbs to about 7 lbs). He has no problem eating as long as it's what he likes. So it's a little tricky right now trying to get him to only eat the wet. If he had it his way, he would be eating both all day long. I don't know if I should be feeding him a bit of wet every time he's hungry or try to set a schedule at this point, but I do want him to gain weight and not be angry!
 
Ozy's weight was down when he was diagnosed. He was 14.5 lb in early July and now he is a bit over 17. The good news is, he is getting more nutrition and isn't dehydrated. The bad news is, he should weigh about a pound less than he does. So, watch out for it turning the other way on you. It can happen fast.

Do you think your cat is dehydrated? He could very well be.

As to how much and when, this is a good link to read on how much.

http://www.catinfo.org/?link=felineobesity#Implementing_a_Safe_Weight-Loss_Program

As to when, well that depends on your situation and your cat. Are you home testing? I hope so. You shouldn't feed him within 2 hours of AMPS and PMPS (morning and evening shot time). Otherwise, it depends on what works best for him and you.

donaleen
 
Hi Colleen (& Smoke) and welcome to our family!!!

Believe me, I know how it feels to get a FD diagnosis for your cat. I was in your shoes back in November 2012. I'm Kat and my supportive DH (FDMB abbreviation for "Darling Husband), Gobbles, MiMi, Nigel (all kitties), Jessie (wonderful pound puppy) and I live in Ohio. Back last fall, my extremely handsome, 10 year old (now he's 11) neutered gray bratty fatty tabby, Gobbles, was diagnosed. With the help of all the wonderful people here, I'm happy to tell you he's diet-controlled.

You will receive tons of good advice, education and support here. And please, feel free to ask any questions. The only "dumb" question is the one that is not asked!

Regarding feeding times: It is easier on the pancreas and better for your cat to feed more than twice per day. I feed my cats 4 times a day, and there is always food down. They eat Fancy Feast pates (and chunky varieties) and Friskies pates.

I agree that six weeks is WAY too long to try to go the "diet controlled" direction. And if I were you, I would return ALL of the DM and ask for a refund. Ultimately, you want your cat eating just the low carb, wet food. HOWEVER, if Smoke will not cooperate, and you must feed "a little" dry, I suggest a food called Young Again Zero Carb dry food. It is pricey and only available online, however, if used sparingly, it will go a long, long way. A lot of others here have called or emailed the company, and received samples in the mail.

We cannot stress how important hometesting is. A lot of vets never mention it, or are against it--please don't buy into that. Smoke is your child and if he were a human child, wouldn't you want to be sure he was insafe BG ("blood glucose") levels? I highly suggest going to Walmart and purchasing a ReliOn glucometer; very cheap but most importantly, the strips are cheap. You do not need a "pet" glucometer. We have a "shopping list" for new members; are you interested in seeing it?

Please try not to get overwhelmed. You are in the best place to get guidance and training with all things feline diabetes. There is a lot of information on this website and it is just way too much to take in at once. Again, welcome!!!
 
Hi there! Thank you for the warm welcome! I am happy to hear yours is diet-controlled, as I'm sure that's the point everyone wants to get to. I look forward to corresponding with all of you and learning the ropes. Thank you for all the tips in just this short amount of time...i am so grateful, as you can imagine! Much easier to talk to people who know what they are doing.

I would love to see the shopping list. I know that there are probably tons of topics related to my own, so any direction would be great. I am already stocked with the Fancy Feast and am interested in the Friskies pates, too.

So, since we are just doing the diet change right now (and I will make sure Smoke goes back within 2 weeks instead of the 6; I thought that was an awfully long time), I know very little about the glucose readings. I have done some research on how to take the blood from the ear and will be getting a meter first thing tomorrow. Could you explain to me how to begin that process and what I should be looking for/what I should be doing? That would be so helpful and I would love to learn that very important aspect asap. Thank you again for the prompt and detailed help....I know both Smoke and I will be in good hands here :)
 
Here ya go:

Tips for home testing: https://docs.google.com/document/d/13c_CPZVKz27fD_6aVbsguadJKvjSrSAkD7flgPPhEag/pub

Getting started shopping list--you probably have some of these items on hand:

1. Meter ie Walmart Relion Confirm or Micro. If you want to buy the cheapest strips--get the Relion Prime model.
2. Matching strips
3. Lancets - little sticks to poke the ear to get blood . new members usually start with a larger gauge lancet such as 28g or 29g until the ear learns to bleed. Optional - lancing tool --Colleen--Many find free-handing much easier. Gobbles was scared of the clicking noise...LOL
4. Cotton balls to stem the blood
5. Neosporin or Polysporin ointment with pain relief to heal the wound
6. Mini flashlight (optional) - useful to help see the ear veins in dark cats, and to press against
7. Ketone urine test strips ie ketodiastix - Important to check ketones when blood is high
8. Sharps container - to dispose of waste syringes and lancets. (I never used one, but some people like to have one)
9. Treats for the cat - like freeze dried chicken
10. Karo syrup/corn syrup or honey if you don't have it at home - for hypo emergencies to bring blood sugar up fast
11. A couple of cans of fancy feast gravy lovers or other high carb gravy food- for hypo emergencies to bring blood sugar up fast
 
The low carb dry food Kat suggested is a good idea - at least while you wean him off dry. Also to save money I would move him back to the fancy feast classic pates - also because many cats get sick of the Purina Dm wet flavour quickly.

Kat has given you some good home testing tips. The idea is for now that you want to see how his blood glucose is behaving. Normal cats are 50-130. As a newbie we wouldnt want you shooting under 200 at least to start. You might want to set up a spreadsheet (we have a template you can use) to track his readings and see if they are dropping with the food change.

Wendy
 
Hi Colleen and sugardude Smoke. Thanks for introducing yourselves! :-D

My foster cat Wink was a dry food addict. I used almost all these transitioning tips from catinfo.org to get him to switch over. It takes time.

I was very aggressive in my transitioning, and took all dry food away at week 3 when Wink was eating 3/4 wet and 1/4 dry.

We like to recommend the Fancy Feast classics and Friskies pates because

1. There are so many different flavors to try, that you are bound to find a couple your cat loves. Wink adores the FF Turkey & Giblets Feast.
2. Lower cost than the prescription diets
 
Hi all! Wow, thank you again sooo much!! I feel like i will never be able to thank you enough and this is only the beginning.
Starting tonight, the 3 boys will have Fancy Feast available and we'll see if we need to incorporate any crushed dry food as "topping."
Kat- a million thanks for those links and that valuable information. They will be referenced constantly!
Deb- i will consult those tips, too. thank you!

Okay, so as I continue reading and learning, I do have two questions...I'll start with the easy one:

1. For the Friskies pate, are there specific varieties I should be looking for or just the pate? (I am already used to finding the proper FF classics)

2. Glucose monitoring- I will be starting this tomorrow (just a reminder- no insulin yet, just diet change). Wendy, I know you said nothing under 200 would be likely, am I understanding that correctly? Everyone,when should I be doing the tests? Before he eats in the morning and then when next?Also, at what levels is there a possibilty of shock? That is my biggest fear right now. Sorry for so many questions.....definitely still learning and wanting to make sure I am thoroughly understanding all the pieces.

Thank you all again!
 
colleen & smoke said:
...1. For the Friskies pate, are there specific varieties I should be looking for or just the pate? (I am already used to finding the proper FF classics)
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All the classics are perfectly fine. You can also try the Chunky Chicken and Chunky Turkey--he may like those as well and there is more texture to them.

colleen & smoke said:
2. Glucose monitoring- I will be starting this tomorrow (just a reminder- no insulin yet, just diet change). Wendy, I know you said nothing under 200 would be likely, am I understanding that correctly? Everyone,when should I be doing the tests? Before he eats in the morning and then when next?Also, at what levels is there a possibilty of shock? That is my biggest fear right now. Sorry for so many questions.....definitely still learning and wanting to make sure I am thoroughly understanding all the pieces.

Thank you all again!
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I am so happy to hear you're going to start testing already and have to do the happy cat dance: dancing_cat !!! Can you do a morning test, and then an evening test (say, 12 hours apart)? You are correct in assuming what Wendy said (under 200 unlikely), but then again, who knows? We will know as soon as you get that first test done. If you mean hypo or unsafe as "possibility of shock"--for a newly diagnosed cat, you will really want to pay attention if the reading is 50 or lower (did you get a chance to read the few links about hypos and shooting low?) Very importantly: some cats (Gobbles included!!!) do not show any physical symptoms when going into low numbers...just a tidbit of information! And believe me, that was my biggest fear as well. Very important: you need to test for ketones because the presence of ketones in a cat's urine is a danger signal and can lead to DKA. Do you think you can give that test a try today? With Gobbles, I would simply keep an eye on him and when he went to his litterbox, stuck the test strip directly into his urine stream. With MOST test strips. you read the results after 15 seconds (be sure to be in good lighting) but read the label first. Colleen, I can really tell how much you love Smoke and how important he is to you due to your "taking the bull by the horns" approach. He's a very lucky kitty to have you as his Mom Also, I'm thrilled that you aren't put off about us trying to get you hometesting Smoke (blood and ketones)--it is critical. And believe it or not, testing will strengthen your bond with him :-D Please keep us informed (post BG test and ketone test values) and keep asking questions :mrgreen:
 
This may help - its a list of all suitable foods and includes fancy feasts and friskies http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=94685

We recommend newbies dont shoot under 200 since they dont have enough data to know if shooting is safe at those numbers. But since you arent shooting right now it doesnt matter - it will be godo to know what his current blood glucose levels are - since a food change could already be bringing them down.

Shock? Not sure what you mean. High blood sugar can impact him over the long term. Short term he should be ok. However we do need to watch and test his pee for ketones.(urine tests strips are on the above shopping list) Ketones are a sign of a life threatening condition called diabetic ketoacidosis (DKA) which can be caused by infection, not enough food or not enough insulin. All diabetic cats can have this issue and its expensive and difficult to treat. So we test their pee to keep an eye out for it.

keep asking questions! Thats why we are here

Wendy
 
Stocked up on some Fancy Feast Classics and Friskies Pates so all 3 boys can eat the same thing and there will be no worry if Smoke gets some of that. Thank you for the food lists- very helpful.

Yes, when I was referring to shock, I did mean hypo...still learning the terms and concepts. Slowly but surely. For the ketone strips (i'll pick some up asap) how often should I be testing that?

Okay, now for the tricky stuff. I just did Smoke's first ever bg test with the glucometer (I picked up one at CVS this morning along with a decent supply of lancets and test strips...only forgot the ketone test strips!). So, after some resistance from Smoke I finally got a blood sample (i'm afraid i might have pierced his ear...i got a lot and i feel terrible!!!). The reading was 225. He hadn't eaten for about 3 hours before hand. Can you help me out with what this number means? Good, bad, give me all the details! Hopefully the lancing gets easier and i don't hurt the poor little guy's ear too much.

I really cannot thank you enough- you guys are helping me through this more than you know! I am so grateful and I know Smoke is too. Don't worry, plenty of questions to come!!
 
Good news on the food

He cant have a hypo as long as he isnt on insulin. We can worry about that if/when he is.

You want to test for ketones twice a week or whenever he is over 340. Heres how to catch pee : https://docs.google.com/document/d/1quta5WLEjdO0Y_t2dAYSwN84h-LNZWxOdtVsJDKZ16A/pub

Great job on the testing!!! Some cats are easier than others and its newbies biggest challenge. Dont worry about piercing the ear - just apply a small dab of neosporin. We can refine your technique so it doesn't happen future - did you freehand the lancet or use the tool?

225 isnt bad at all. Normal cats are 50-130. We don't recommend newbies shoot insulin under 200. He is very close to that number and given you just stopped feeding the dry on Saturday and picked up low carb wet today so hopefully his numbers will continue to drop. I would continue to test once or twice a day at the most and let us know how the numbers are .

Wendy
 
Congratulations on your first successful BG test! Welcome to the vampire club!



Reference ranges for decision making
BJM said:
The difference between a human and pet meter. Conceptually, it is somewhat like reading a thermometer in Celsius vs Fahrenheit. Freezing, for example, is 0 degrees Celsius and 32 degrees Fahrenheit.

Here are some glucose reference ranges used for decision making using glucometers. Human glucometer numbers are given first. Numbers in parentheses are for non-US meters. Numbers in curly braces are estimates for an AlphaTrak.

< 40 mg/dL (2.2 mmol/L) {< 70 mg/dL for an AlphaTrak}
- Treat as if HYPO if on insulin
- At nadir (lowest point between shots) in a long term diabetic (more than a year), may earn a reduction.

< 50 mg/dL (2.8 mmol/L) {< 80 mg/dL for an AlphaTrak}
- If before nadir, steer with food, ie, give modest amounts of medium carb food to keep from going below 50 (2.8).
- At nadir, often indicates dose reduction is earned.

50 - 130 mg/dL (2.8 - 7.2 mmol/L) {80 - 160 mg/dL for an AlphaTrak}
- On insulin - great control when following a tight regulation protocol.
- Off insulin - normal numbers. (May even go as low as the upper 30s (1.7 mmol/L){60s for an AlphaTrak}; if not on insulin, this can be safe.

> 150 mg/dL (8.3 mmol/L) {> 180 mg/dL for an AlphaTrak}
- At nadir, indicates a dose increase may be needed when following a tight regulation protocol.

200 mg/dL (11.1 mmol/L) {230 mg/dL for an AlphaTrak}
- no shot level for beginners; may slowly reduce to 150 mg/dL (8.3 mmol/L) {180 mg/dL} for long-acting insulins (Lantus, Levemir, and ProZinc) as data collection shows it is safe

180 - 280 mg/dL (10 - 15.6 mmol/L) {may be 210 - 310 mg/dL for an AlphaTrak}- Any time - The renal threshold (depending on data source and cat's renal function) where glucose spills into the urine.
- Test for ketones, glucose is too high.

>= 280 mg/dL (15.6 mmol/L) {may be >=310 mg/dL for an AlphaTrak}, if for most of the cycle between shots
- Uncontrolled diabetes and thus at risk for diabetic ketoacidosis and hepatic lipidosis
- Follow your insulin protocol for dose adjustments
- Test for ketones; if more than a trace level of ketones, go to vet ASAP.
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The Friskies Mixed Grill is 11% carbs. I tend to stay away from that one with my sugagdude Wink, so he doesn't go high on his BG levels.
The other pate flavors of the Friskies are ok, under our 10% carb target.
 
Hello! Thank you for the support with the home testing! You're right-it does feel a tad vampire-ish...haha!
This morning Smoke was extra difficult, but I think the more we do it, the more comfortable we'll all get. I know part of the problem is how tense I am!
In regards to the lancet, I am doing it freehand. I have the pen tool, but it's intimidating.

Got it for the Friskies Mixed Grill. I actually have two cans of that one, but I will make sure that the non-sugar cats are the only ones who get that flavor.
That makes me feel so much better about the hypo. I have been worried about that, but I think I'm getting the hang of all this terminology.

So, here's the latest reading, one that comes with many questions. First, is this even possible? That seems like a big drop overnight. I tested Smoke at 8:30 AM and will do the second test tonight at 8:30 PM. Okay, here's the results: the reading was 125. I know that's normal range, but is this too good to be true?

I hope you all had a nice weekend!!
 
Huge changes are possible...up and down. I can't seem to find what your readings have been. Could you post a recap of his glucose readings, please?

Congrats on starting testing!

donaleen
 
That 125 is very possible. Food change, too much insulin, not eating as much. All sorts of factors can cause lower numbers.

We'd really like to have you set up our standard format spreadsheet (SS) to help us and you out. You can even share it with your vet!

How to's for SS setup and link to your signature are here. Yell for help if you have issues with the setup. I've helped lots of people do this. The one step the setup forgets to say, is you need to "share the document with anyone with the link". That gives us read only access to the SS.
 
Hi everyone! Sorry for the delayed post- busy week.

Update on Smoke- still on diet change and no insulin. His numbers have been in the mid 100s for the past few days...highest in low 200s (only happened twice!).
I talked to our vet today and she said she would like to continue working on the diet change and we're still holding off on the insulin because his numbers are getting to a lower range. I did address my concerns with her about his back recently (he's been very sensitive with touching, but still jumps onto the chair and bed). She has recommended having him take Pred once a week.....how will this impact his bg readings?

Also, something I've noticed: his readings are also much lower in the AM than at night...is this just because of the food consumption throughout the day? He still hasn't gained any weight, so we're working on that, too.

I hope you all have had a good week and thank you for the help!
 
Would you say he has been 50-130? or higher? thats the normal range for a cat. Perhaps we can tweak what you are feeding to bring him into normal range - for example the fancy feast classics are lower carb than the friskies pates.

Wendy
 
colleen & smoke said:
...Also, something I've noticed: his readings are also much lower in the AM than at night...is this just because of the food consumption throughout the day? He still hasn't gained any weight, so we're working on that, too...
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Many cats go lower overnight so you may be seeing that in the morning test.

A higher percent calories from fat calories may help with weight gain. Feeding several min-meals may allow him to eat more, too. As you get the glucose stabilized, he should regain some weight, too.
 
Wendy&Tiggy said:
Would you say he has been 50-130? or higher?
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He's been in the higher range. For example, today he was 177 in the AM and 221 in PM (he was tested later and earlier, though, today...a little off)

Here's some of the rest of the readings (Most recent; AM/PM):

177/221
141/173
137/217
125/232

Also, we have been feeding him primarily Fancy Feast classics, with the occasional Friskies. He did have a bite of the d/m dry food the either day (very small amount), so that could be a contributing factor, too.
 
If Smoke were my cat, I might give the food change another week to see how it does. It looks to me like Smoke could use a little bit of insulin support to help bring his numbers down into the normal range, 50-130.

Prednisone can elevate the BG levels. Sometimes, you need to treat the concurrent disease and raise the insulin dose to compensate. If you do decide to go with the pred, then you may want to start the insulin sooner than later. That's my recommendation.
 
Hello again everyone!!

Sorry for the long absence- I've actually been away at school, but Smoke has been in good hands!
As of right now, he is still of insulin because his levels are in the normal range with the food change. We've had readings as low as 81, so his bg levels are fairly good. But, there does seem to be one issue: weight. He has still not gained any weight and recently, he's lost an ounce or two. He is fed FF throughout the day as he needs...about 2 cans a day. Has anyone else seen this issue or know of anything that could help this? I'm used to him being a bit more plump.
Thank you all for the help and again, I'm sorry for the long delay...i do appreciate you all!
 
Try feeding a kitten food - Fancy Feast Kitten Turkey and Giblet, Evo Cat and Kitten canned - they have higher protein and fat for growth and development, ie weight gain.

Also, other things may cause weight loss - renal disease, hyperthyroidism, heart disease, and cancer are some of them. Could be worth a vet check to rule in or out those conditions.
 
Sounds like he is OTJ - congratulations! What weight is he? Maybe he isnt getting enough food?


Tips to stay OTJ

We say a cat is in remission if the cat can maintain BG levels for 14 days between 40-120 with most of that spent under 100. However, please keep in mind that once a diabetic always a diabetic.

1. Never feed dry - not even treats. If you change wet food types, be 100% sure the new food is also low carb and same low carb % as your current food. Some cats are very carb sensitive and an increase from 3-6% to 8-10% can spike the BG’s. Don’t feed if you aren’t sure!
2. Weigh every 2 weeks to 1 month to watch for weight changes. Too much of a weight gain can cause loss of remission.
3. Measure blood once a week, indefinitely. You want to catch a relapse quickly.
4. No steroids or oral meds with sugar - remind your vet whenever giving you any medication. Always double check.
5. Monitor food intake, peeing and drinking. If increasing, a sign of losing remission.
6. Regular vet checks for infection such as dental , ear or UTI. And get them treated quick!

If he does fall out of remission you need to be more aggressive and resolve issues/ back on insulin as soon as possible as the window for a second remission is tight if any.


Wendy
 
Hi there!

Thanks for the info. In regards to the EVO foods, which ones are best for a diabetic kitty?

When he was initially diagnosed in September, a full senior panel was performed and all his other functions checked out, so I'm not sure why he hasn't gained any weight back. We've been feeding him FF only and occasionally some Friskies Pate.

Also, just to clarify, he was never on insulin, as we got his levels down within about 2 weeks following diet change. Is there anything else I should be doing?

Thank you all again!
 
You can use this list, evo is on here. Just make sure column c (%calories from carbs) is under 10%. But honestly I don't know if I would change the food if I were you.. The current food looks like it's working well!!
 
Hi again!

So, just a little question within an update.

Smoke's levels are still in the good range. Lows in the low 100s, with nothing over 168 for some of the higher readings. I want to remind you that he has not been on insulin since his diagnosis- just the diet change. My big concern right now is his weight. Has anyone else experienced a hungry cat with no evidence of weight gain? He has a hearty appetite and eats well, but no weight gain. His blood panel from Sept. had no other noteworthy levels, in fact, his thyroid was on the lower side. I am going to call the vet tomorrow, but I was wondering if you all had any insight.

Also, his back/spine- very sensitive when pet. He'll almost "fall" under it, if that makes sense- like it hurts him when touched. Any insight?

Anyway, I hope you all are well and hopefully have some potential answers. I look forward to hearing from you all!

Thank you for all the help!
 
As of his last exam, kidneys were fine- vet didn't mention any issues there. His bathroom habits have been normal, although there are some larger wet spots in the litter box and we have 3 cats, so I haven't been able to catch who is doing that yet.

Thank you for the food chart. Since the FF and Friskies seem to be working, I am a little hesitant to change, but if there is some food that will plump him up a bit I am willing to try.
 
If the vet has recommended that he needs to gain weight, you can try to add some pure protein, up to 20% to his FF and Friskies diet to try to add some muscle back on to Smoke.

Or try adding another tablespoon or so to his daily intake of wet food.

Wink has issues with maintaining his weight, so I weigh him a couple of times a week, average the numbers, and adjust the food intake to compensate and get his weight up or down as needed. Wink is eating mostly the Fancy Feast pates with a tablespoon or two of Friskies pate as needed to maintain his weight.
 
Hi everyone!!

I'm sure you are all busy with the upcoming holidays, but I have a bit of a strange thing happening over here.
Smoke is still diet controlled only (no insulin) and has been doing fairly well. He was having issues gaining weight, so we have been
giving him a small bit of Wellness Core Original to supplement and he has gradually been putting weight back on. He primarily eats FF Classics, though.

Anyway, his morning readings (around 10 AM after a few small meals) have been good- this morning he was at 98.
But, the past few nights, his PM reading has been in the 200s (211, 228). What could be causing this and should this be a reason for concern?

Please let me know if you need any more information and hopefully you have some good insight...I'm sure you will!

I hope you and your feline friends are all doing well!!

Thank you!
 
It's Wellness dry, but he only gets a few pieces a day (which I know would make a difference) but I'm confused as to why it's so much higher at night than in the morning
 
So many cats seem to naturally drop lower overnight. It's probably why the morning readings have been consistently low.

You could always try a food trial, eliminate the dry for several days and see how the PM tests turn out.

If this were my cat, I'd want to keep a close eye on the numbers.

You might want to test about 3 hours after the PM test and food, to see how far the pancreas is helping to drop the BG numbers. Just like you would do during an OTJ trial.

Any chance of infection (think teeth)? inflammation (think UTI) ? contraband food? guests or visitors lately? any changes in the home to stress him out more?
 
Hi all,

I do not believe there could be any infections or inflammations. I should note, though, that he takes Prednisolone (sp?) 2 times a week.
We stopped all dry food two days ago to see if that was the issue. The same thing happened today. His AM reading was 130 and evening reading was 255! He just ate again at 6, so I will be re-checking at 9.

We were adding some enzymes and probiotics to his food, but I stopped those yesterday as well to see if they had any impact. I am frustrated because he was doing so well on diet alone for the past several weeks!
 
A steroid like Prednisolone will raise the BG. Since yo are giving it at large intervals you may see ifh BGs when the Prednisolone is being effective and then lower BGs at other times. That makes finding the right dose harder.
It would be helpful to record publish your BG and other info in a spreadsheet. See:
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=50130
I wouod also add when you give the prednisolone.
 
Hi all,

Just wanted to let you know that by the 3rd night of no dry kibble, Smoke's levels were back down to the 170 range during his PM test. I think part of the problem
was the I was testing too soon after he ate. For example, he was 255 and I waited a little over two hours, retested, and he was at 171. He is still underweight, though. He weighs 6.5 and we want him up to at least 7 lbs. Also, I stopped the probiotics to his food in case that was increasing the BG- has anyone had experience with this?

I feel that insulin might benefit him, but with readings like 98 in the AM and then 150s-180s in the PM, he just doesn't seem to be in the insulin range. Am I correct about this? He was only above 200 (225, 255, 263) about three times this week, but like I said, I think it was too soon after eating. He does seem to be drinking a bit of water, too.

Also, has anyone had experience with slipped discs in cats? That's why he is on the Pred as one area of his back is extremely sensitive to the touch...he yelps.

I know this is loaded with tons of questions, but your answers are always so helpful.

Thank you all!
 
colleen & smoke said:
I feel that insulin might benefit him, but with readings like 98 in the AM and then 150s-180s in the PM, he just doesn't seem to be in the insulin range. Am I correct about this? He was only above 200 (225, 255, 263) about three times this week, but like I said, I think it was too soon after eating. He does seem to be drinking a bit of water, too.
Click to expand...

Well, normal numbers are 40-120 on a human meter. We really want to see the BG numbers in that green number range ((<100) as much as possible when a cat is not getting any insulin. My foster cat Wink has been OTJ for almost 9 months now, only diet controlled. He usually tests in the 70-99 range. Anytime he tests in the 90's, I like to get a +3 to see how his pancreas is reacting and how far his BG (blood glucose) drops after he has eaten.

I certainly think that Smoke could benefit from a tiny amount of insulin. We really want to see most of the test numbers < 100 for good control. Perhaps, Smoke is a microdose kitty. He may only need a drop or two of insulin for a short time. Of course, it depends on which insulin you are using. Lantus and levimir seem to be easier to control the drops. Not many people using PZI or prozinc would shoot under 200 ever.

Although we do suggest that newcomers to the board have a shoot/no shoot number of 200, that is only for the beginning stages, until people learn to monitor better, gain experience with home testing and learn to manipulate the BG numbers with food. After a few weeks, that shoot/no shoot number drops gradually until you can even shoot those 90's and lower with confidence.\

The probiotics should not be influencing the BG's, at least not from my experience.

Sorry, no experience with slipped discs in cats. Hopefully someone else here has some knowledge about that.
 
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