Newly Diagnosed/ Concerning BG Curve

[Alecia Lucy]

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1tRvU1lTIoJWe4W0uaJmBpgjcBVwBCw_fNwR76fSpwuY/edit?usp=sharing

Hi! My name is Alecia and my oldest girl, Lucy (louLou), 11 years young, was diagnosed with Diabetes on December 13th, 2022.

Prior to this Lucy had only been diagnosed with arthritis in the past.

The week leading up to her vet visit we had noticed Lucy was hanging around her water bowl 95% of her day, was scarfing down her food but an hour later she would be yelling at you for more, saw a decrease in energy and weight. Two days before her vet visit we noticed that her urine was very sticky and then she started going beside the litter box. We could not believe all of this had taken place in a matter of 1 week.

When we got her to vet on December 13th, she was diagnosed with Diabetes, Pancreatitis, & due to the Pancreatitis her kidneys and her liver began to shut down. Also her thyroid was very low. She was admitted into her vets intensive care unit for 3 days. Each day we called to check on her her numbers were slowly starting to come around.

By Friday evening December 16th we were able to bring her home. Our vet has placed her on antibiotics (Clavamox) for any infection that may be present, also has her on Thyrokare to help with her Thyroid. Her insulin he has her on is Vetsulin, and gave us a sliding scale to follow - 100-200 BG: zero units. 200-300 BG : 1 unit. 300-400 BG : 2 units. 400-500 BG : 3 units. 500+BG : 3.5 units. Our vet also taught us how to do our own BG home monitoring using the monitor and supplies we purchased for her diagnosis.

By the time we got home and got her settled and after many many many tries to check her BG we finally were able to get it by 10pm Friday night, and her BG was at 59. I was shocked to see how low she was! We instantly got super paranoid of her slipping even lower and the major concerns that come with it! We immediately got some food in her and checked 2 hours later and her BG was up to 292. I'm not sure when they gave her insulin that day, or when she was last fed before she left the hospital.

Saturday morning we checked her and her BG had sky rocketed! We went ahead and followed our vets sliding scale and quickly saw her numbers drop, but too low for our liking. We read from doing our own research that normal levels should never go below 80. We were paranoid the whole day that she might slip dangerously low.

After we started doing some research of our own and talking to others we quickly saw many others were concerned about the sliding scale, insulin, and dosage our vet had us following. My sister had reached out to a friend who has experience with FD and a vet tech recommended to us that we drop the once a day and move to twice daily but going in small increments said that would be safer for her and more effective. Without being able to call our vet and we were so concerned we decided to try it. But now I'm wondering if I have made the wrong decision for her ):

We are so concerned with her numbers and we just don't know what to do. I'm also starting to think maybe I shouldn't have changed anything. I know that Vetsulin is not the best insulin on the market for cats, but unfortunately this emergency stumbled upon us when money is very tight in our household, and we just do not have the funds to switch her right now like we would like. We want to give this the best try we can with the insulin that she's on until we finish it or have the money to change it, whichever come first. Basically praying for a miracle at this point.

As for her diet we are a multi cat household so we have everyone on a feeding schedule so she is not free fed. She was on Purina One Urinary Tract Health (dry food) for several years and Friskies meaty bits (wet food). She never had UT problems, it's just what our vet saw fit for all of our fur babies. The kitties always got dry food for breakfast and wet food for dinner. Since she was diagnosed she is fully switched to all an all wet food diet. We tried the Friskies Pate but she was having a hard time eating it. So she is on Tiki Cat now. We quickly learned that she needed a wet food diet with low carbs and high protein.

We have filled out her SS and attached that as well.

Also I should note that our vet never did mention that she had Ketones present in her urine. (But also never even mentioned the word, and I learned about it myself) Paranoia got the best of me and I ran a home test on her today and thank goodness gracious it came back negative!

Thank you for reading this and helping my sweet Lucy girl. We all feel so lost. So sorry for information overload!

-Alecia and Lucy

 

[Chris & China (GA)]

Hey Alecia and Lucy! Glad to see you over here from the FB group and Welcome to the FDMB!

First a little housekeeping. If you look below my comment, you'll see what's called a "Signature". It's just an easy way for people to quickly see some of the basic information we need before giving much in the way of advice. The link to your spreadsheet should be last after you add things like:

Your name/Cats name, age, sex, date of diagnosis, type of insulin, type of meter, type of food, any other health problems or meds? and your spreadsheet link. To do your Signature just lick on your sign on name and there's a drop down menu. Choose "Signature" and a new box will pop up for you to enter the information. It just keeps people from having to ask the same questions over and over again.

With the diet change, I'd seriously consider dropping her Vetsulin dose down to 0.5 and give it twice a day. As we told you in the group, sliding scales don't usually work very well for most cats (although some do OK) but for now, better to go with what works for most.
With the doses she's been getting and the fact that Vetsulin already tends to hit hard and fast, she's dropping too much, too fast, which just sets her up to "bounce".

Bounces happen when 1. they drop too low, 2. they drop too fast, 3. they drop into numbers their body isn't used to anymore (or any combination of all 3). The liver releases stored sugars and hormones to bring the BG (blood glucose) back up quickly. That's a "bounce". It can take up to 6 cycles (3 days) for a bounce to clear and get all those hormones out of her body. As she gets more regulated and starts to spend more time in good numbers, the bounces should reduce and she shouldn't bounce so high (but ECID (every cat is different) and we've had some bounce all the way to OTJ (off the juice)

If your vet would give you a script for Glargine (brand names Lantus, Basaglar, Semglee) you might want to contact DCIN (Diabetic Cats In Need). We have a One Time Assistance program that's for new sugarcat parents who are struggling with the costs of getting started. We can provide you with a few months worth of insulin. You don't have to be low-income to qualify for the OTA program.

Also, I don't know how much the Embrace meter's strips cost but a lot of us use the Relion Premier from Walmart ($9) and 100 strips are $17.88.

Tiki Cat is a great low carb food so it's wonderful you found one she likes! (you might see if your other cats will eat the Friskies because the last thing you want is a 2nd sugarcat and feeding them all low carb canned food can lessen the chances of that ever happening!)

Great news about no ketones! That's how we want it! If she ever starts to act sick, refuse food, hide, just generally looks bad, you want to make sure to test for them. Anything over "trace" is a medical emergency.

Here's some good basic information on How you can help us to help you!

 

[Alecia Lucy]

Hey Alecia and Lucy! Glad to see you over here from the FB group and Welcome to the FDMB!

First a little housekeeping. If you look below my comment, you'll see what's called a "Signature". It's just an easy way for people to quickly see some of the basic information we need before giving much in the way of advice. The link to your spreadsheet should be last after you add things like:

Your name/Cats name, age, sex, date of diagnosis, type of insulin, type of meter, type of food, any other health problems or meds? and your spreadsheet link. To do your Signature just lick on your sign on name and there's a drop down menu. Choose "Signature" and a new box will pop up for you to enter the information. It just keeps people from having to ask the same questions over and over again.

With the diet change, I'd seriously consider dropping her Vetsulin dose down to 0.5 and give it twice a day. As we told you in the group, sliding scales don't usually work very well for most cats (although some do OK) but for now, better to go with what works for most.
With the doses she's been getting and the fact that Vetsulin already tends to hit hard and fast, she's dropping too much, too fast, which just sets her up to "bounce".

Bounces happen when 1. they drop too low, 2. they drop too fast, 3. they drop into numbers their body isn't used to anymore (or any combination of all 3). The liver releases stored sugars and hormones to bring the BG (blood glucose) back up quickly. That's a "bounce". It can take up to 6 cycles (3 days) for a bounce to clear and get all those hormones out of her body. As she gets more regulated and starts to spend more time in good numbers, the bounces should reduce and she shouldn't bounce so high (but ECID (every cat is different) and we've had some bounce all the way to OTJ (off the juice)

If your vet would give you a script for Glargine (brand names Lantus, Basaglar, Semglee) you might want to contact DCIN (Diabetic Cats In Need). We have a One Time Assistance program that's for new sugarcat parents who are struggling with the costs of getting started. We can provide you with a few months worth of insulin. You don't have to be low-income to qualify for the OTA program.

Also, I don't know how much the Embrace meter's strips cost but a lot of us use the Relion Premier from Walmart ($9) and 100 strips are $17.88.

Tiki Cat is a great low carb food so it's wonderful you found one she likes! (you might see if your other cats will eat the Friskies because the last thing you want is a 2nd sugarcat and feeding them all low carb canned food can lessen the chances of that ever happening!)

Great news about no ketones! That's how we want it! If she ever starts to act sick, refuse food, hide, just generally looks bad, you want to make sure to test for them. Anything over "trace" is a medical emergency.

Here's some good basic information on How you can help us to help you!

Thank you so much for the housekeeping tip, I will definitely being doing some clean up here!

&& we will start her off on the .5 tomorrow morning and moving forward! I have read this evening that dosage should not be changed until days 3-5. Is that correct? Any concerns we should look out for since we made a such a big mistake these past 2 days?

&& thank you so much for the mention of DCIN. We will look into that!

 

[Chris & China (GA)]

I have read this evening that dosage should not be changed until days 3-5. Is that correct?

Lots of info in the Vetsulin group...here's an Introduction to Vetsulin

I'd hold the dose for at least 2 days and let's see how it goes.

Any concerns we should look out for since we made a such a big mistake these past 2 days?

Just make sure she eats a good sized meal, wait about 20-30 minutes and then shoot. You want to make sure she keeps her food down before giving the insulin so there's something for it to work on.