Newly diagnosed cat

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AndrewPL

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My Cat - Bear has just been diagnosed with Diabetes last night and is now getting his blood sugar level mapped at the vet today.

For his whole life we had fed him dry food - Hills Science/Royal Cannin, we thought this was the best for him and we had no idea of the dangers or how bad it was for him.
We are going to switch to a low carb wet food for him and our 4 other cats. I am picking up a freestyle lite blood gloucose meter tonight and will try and get a grip on home testing.

I just wanted to introduce myself, I am worried this will be a long journey and a struggle for the rest of his life but am possitive that he can still have a full life and hopefully even get over this and get it under control.

I live in New Zealand, if anyone else is from around here I'd love to know how you are handling your cat with Diabetes and what foods you recommend to help control it.

Regards,
Andrew
 
Hey Andrew! Welcome! Yep, there are at least a couple of other New zealanders on this board. Not me though I did have a distant cousin live there for a couple of years.

Sounds like you are getting a grip on your baby's situation. I felt the same way in April when my cedric was diagnosed. I switched his food (he ate 3oz of Fancy feast and 1/2 cup of blu Buffalo weight control) to grain free, high protein, low carbs - both canned & dry. I finally took away his dry food - good stuff, blue buffalo Wildernesss - and his numbers went done 100 points. within 2 days they were normal and he had his last shot of Lantus on May 21 (see spreadsheet below).

Whenyou find out what your can will be on (Lantus, Levemar, etc) you'll want to post in the insulin specific forum to get some attention. :smile:

You'll do well - you have already made plans for the meter - good work! That is still my biggest challenge - Cedric's ear isn't keen on bleeding. There are some tips on the site here, but I do recomend heating the ear. I have a rice sock (that I cooked a little once...nononono!) but I also have a toy my step-mom sent for him that had a heating pad inside. I use that to heat his ear.

This site has some great info and the message boards have a buch of people who have been in your shoes and can give some advice. Remember that - and that they are just trying to help out. :smile: But I think you'll do just fine!

Again welcome!
 
Hi andrew and welcome to the group.

Allie & Myrtle are in NZ. Let me direct her your way and maybe you are close enough to each that she can help teach you home testing.

We are here to help in anyway we can.

Looks like you are starting with the basics, food, hometesting.

The next thing is insulin. We recommend using human insulins - lantus or levemir or the newer animal insulin - prozinc. If you visit the insulin support group pages you can learn more about these insulins. The l's work in a similar fashion.

We also recommend that you start low and go slow - meaning start at a low dose - such as 1 unit or 1/2 unit and with home testing, slowly change the dose accordingly (don't worry, this board can guide you on that). So if the vet tells you to give more than 1 unit, please don't do it. with the diet change, you may find that your cat may not need a large dose.
 
Welcome Andrew! It sounds like you are off to a great start with the food change and planning to home test! The folks here are very helpful so be sure to ask any questions you may have!
 
Welcome!

Just want to stress that removing dry food from Bear's diet may significantly decrease his BG levels.
Be sure your vet knows that you changed from dry food before he decides on a dose.
 
Hi Andrew!
Welcome to the FDMB!

I am in Christchurch, so I'm a fair way away from you. (I know you have no desire to be HERE :mrgreen: )
It sounds as if you are on the right road and you've come to the right place. You may feel overwhelmed with good advice, but it is GOOD advice!
My cat Myrtle was on caninsulin, because back in 2005 that was the main insulin used and my vet was not keen to try Lantus (or Glargine as it is also called). Also, I never was able to home-test her as she was half-wild and it was hard enough to get her to submit to the shots. She did very well, however, and it was cancer that took her in the end.
I fed her on Fancy Feast and the Chef pouches that are the loaf style or "classic" ones, not the gravy ones. (She would not eat Whiskas). She would not eat the Hills MD canned food the vet tried to sell me as being the only acceptable food (but if you look at the food charts here, you'll find it is higher in carbohydrates than many varieties of Fancy Feast, which you can often buy on special. Those little tins of Dine are probably even better, being more or less the straight ingredients without any "fillers". I tried to avoid dry food altogether. Also, I was able to buy raw horse or rabbit meat, which she liked better than anything else, so if your cat is a raw meat eater at all, it's another good food without carbohydrates, and the chewing is good for his teeth!
It is a worrying time, and you can't help but think of a long future playing this game! However, they generally respond very well to insulin quite soon and that is rewarding, to see the big improvement in health and restored joy in life! That makes it all worth while, I think!
One of my workmates has a 20 year old cat who has been on Lantus for 2 years. He is doing extraordinarily well and they were so thrilled to see him play and purr again!
 
Thanks everyone for the warm welcome!

Allie, I hope everything is ok for you in Christchurch! it must be tough down there right now.

Yesterday Bear had his first shot of Insulin, the vet gave him 3 units of Glargine as he was at around 22mmol/L at around 8am. When we picked him up at 6:30pm he was down to around 6mmol/L but they were unsure if he was coming up or going down from the trough.
We gave him some food when he came home and by 10pm he was acting very sluggish and tired. I was able to get some blood from his ear (as he wasn't able to resist) and he was down to 2.8, we gave him a can of food that he was only able to half eat and 30minutes later he was up to 2.9.
I woke up during the night to check on him and he was happy, also happy in the morning so he must have hit the trough at around 10pm last night.

It was pretty scary but they are only going to give him 2 units today and map out his progress.

Getting any blood from his ear was harder than it looks from watching the videos, i need to find a better way to warm up his ears but don't want to over do it while I am still learning.

Thanks for the food advise! It has been hard working out what would be best since there is almost no information on the can. It looks like Fancy feast is the best option in NZ and there is a huge range under 8% Carbs so he should never get sick of the same flavours!

What does everyone do if thier cat drops too low? I have honey/maple syrp in the house but have no idea how much I would have to use if his blood sugar level drops to low. Cat food I would think, would take to long to react if it is an emergancy. Our vet said that you would mix a table spoon with some water and get them to drink/rub it on thier gums.
I'm hoping it will never get to that stage but it is my biggest fear.
 
Update: Just checked with the vet, his blood sugar level this morning was 5.7 so they didn't give him any insulin.
I feel this is really possitive but it is still early days yet.

He had a steroid Injection 2 months ago that is wearing off (he had urine crystals and we took him to a vet clinic we thought was ok but I would never go back to as I don't feel they explained everything fully)
Hopefully that is the cause of the diabetes and once it fully wears off he'll be able to produce his own insulin again. He is still only young at 4-5 years old but if anything, I think going from dry food to wet food will be a possitive for all of our cats.
 
Hi Andrew (from across the ditch),

wow, that's not a good first shot experience :YMSIGH: I'm sure plenty of people on here will jump in and say the same thing...3u is way too high a starting dose for lantus/glargine. 1u is the recommended dose to start with. Normally lantus takes a few days to build up in the cats system and you don't get much of a drop in blood glucose until it has built up over a few days. To be getting down to 2.8 (50.4) about 14 hours after the very first shot means that 3u is way way too much for Bear.

It seems like many vets are very heavy handed in their dosing. My vet also tried to start Max on 3u but I ignored her and started on 1.5u (was switching from another insulin) as I knew it was too high. Max is now close to being regulated on 2.5u twice a day and that looks to be on the high side compared to many of the cats on here. From what I have seen on this forum most cats are on between 1 and 2 units twice a day. I know that it can be hard to question your vet and go against their advice. Its hard to work out who to trust when you are getting conflicting advice, especially when the choice is people on the internet that you haven't met vs your vet. The people here have lots of experience with diabetic cats, often more than most vets who are required to know a little about everything. Read up as much as you can - this site has so much valuable information as well as support from people who have been treating diabetic cats for years.

If you go across to the lantus area there is a dosing protocol for lantus. This has been developed from vets/researchers that have done studies with lantus in diabetic cats in the US/Germany and Australia (university of Queensland). Might be worth printing that out and taking it to your vet to discuss.

Have a look at the stickies (the posts at the top of the page with stars on them) for information on treating hypos. Lots of good information in there about what/how much to feed your cat to get the BG back up if it goes too low.

I hope Bear has a better day today :smile:

Amy
 
Carolyn,

Thanks for the advise, I have advised every nurse and vet we have talked to that we have switched from dry food to wet food.

Last Friday night I started to get worried about his weight loss, up until that point we just thought he was drinking more water and he was losing weight due to the winter months etc. As soon as I googled it I had that sick feeling in my stomach that he had diabetes. Over the weekend we fed him wet food and kept a close eye on him and took him to the vet on the moday for a blood test.

I kinda thought we should wait and see how the wet food was effecting his blood levels but he was at 25mmol/L when we first tested him and the vet said at that range he is at risk of developing ketones in his urine.
There is a lot of information to take in such a short time!
 
Hi Andew & Bear,

I'm fairly new here, but let me tell you I was a total mess when my 9 yr old Simba was diagnosed on 4/25/11. I ended up taking him for a second opinion since I was not happy with my previous vet (who was my vet for 20 yrs). My poor Simba had 9 teeth removed on 7/5/11, but doing amazingly well. I took him off dry food on 6/13/11 per the 2nd opinion vet, and she enforced the importants of hometesting, which I was not doing it at that time. Simba had a seizure on 6/28. I ran to the store & picked up a meter kit. I pricked his ear and his level was 85. I probably would have killed him if I did not prick his ear and had given him two units of insulin. Simba has been without insulin since the morning of 6/28/11. I prick his ear every day and he has been running in the low one hundreds/eighties. Simba takes the prick of the ear better than the injection which I was so surprised.

I don't know why type of wet cat foods you have in New Zealand, but mostly everyone here feeds their diabetic cats "Classic Fancy Feast" wet food" (low in carbs). I do believe by taking Simba off of dry food made his levels drop extremely, and I for one did not believe that would happen. I'm also thinking what brought on diabetes could have been the infection he had in his mouth which he had the nine teeth pulled out. Simba is going for his 1st post-op appt w/the vet on 7/18/11 and I will discuss if the infection could have caused the diabetes, but this new vet I have is totally 100% against dry food.

I'm telling you my story because I too thought Simba was going to have a very long journey with diabetes and I was a complete nut case .... It took me 3 months to get him off inuslin which I thought would be impossible to do. Feline Diabetes can ve bery well controlled with a low carb wet food diet and the importance of hometesting. All your other cats will need to be on the same diet to make things easier and of course healthier for all.

I think if you follow the advice from people here you will accomplish so much. People here know so much more about Feline Diabetes than vets do. Hang in there and there is hope, take it from me. Sorry if my story is long, but I'm proud of myself that I helped my Simba.
 
Thanks Amy!

I appreciate all of the advice given on this board!
I agree and feel that 3u was way to high to start off on, unfortunatly I dropped him off at the vet in the morning and they gave him the dose and monitored his blood levels all day. I had hoped they would have started out slow but they said according to the chart he should have been on 3.6u but it is very hard to give half a dose. I am glad they didn't as that could have ended up very badly!
 
Thanks Winni!

That is great news for you and Simba (one of my babies is also called Simba, Ginger cats are always the craziest!)

It does look like Fancy feast classic is the best choice, they have a huge range in our supermarket so I bought 20 yesterday (trying not to get confused as they mix the gravy ones in with the classics)
For now I am looking to keep bear on Fancy feast only while the other cats stick to a cheaper wet food. you are right that it would be better to keep them all on the same diet but as he is the dominant cat he is likely to eat more than he should. I am currently feeding them seperatly but that isn't working out that well as for some reason they all like to eat together.

I only wish large 700g cans were avialable for Fancy feast as 80g cans for $1 each will start to get expensive. (in the long run it'll still be cheaper than vet bills and dry food!)
 
Andrew something else you need to be aware of.

Steroids of any kind can lead to diabetes in cats. You mentioned Bear had an injection a couple months ago. Is this his first and only or has he taken steroids before - injectible, oral, transdermal?

Going forward, if it is possible and depending upon circumstances, ask the vets if a drug contains steroids and if it does is there a non steroid alternative that can be used. In most cases there are.

With Maui - she had all kinds of steroids injections, oral, etc for years - for skin allergies. Little did I know or the vets figure out, that it was dry food that caused the allergies and the steroids only exacerbated the situation that led to her diabetes. So, now I am very careful with steroid use for any of my cats and if I do use it, I also understand the risks involved.
 
Hi Hillary,

It was a long lasting steroid givin by injection as Bear was having trouble peeing and we took him to the vet as we were worried about Crystals. Crystals/urine blockages are pretty serious so maybe it was the right call..

I am sure it was either a trigger or caused his Diabetes as he started to lose weight and drink more water afterwards. He was most likely high risk of diabetes before hand.
Our current vet said that there should have been a urine analysis that also happened at that time but didn't. Unfortunatly there isn't anything we can do about it now but will be careful with any steroids a vet wants to give our cat.

Cheers,
Andrew

Edit; Thinking about it now, Bear has developed a lot of dandruff since we have switched him off dry food, that is the least of my worries at the moment though. Good to see Maui's skin problems cleared up once he was taken off dry food. I'm a little mistified why dry food is recommended when it looks like it causes a lot of problems for a range of cats, I guess it is my fault for believing the vets/pet stores and food companies.
 
A couple of points come to mind - not sure if they have all been covered.

In your hypo kit, there should be syrup (karo or other high sugar), a couple of cans of Fancy Feast grilled chicken with gravy (high carb), and some extra test strips. As well, many people print out the instructions for treating a hypo and keep it with the kit.

Lantus (in fact all insulins for cats) is given twice a day. As you have seen, it is always better to start at .5 or maybe 1 unit and hold for at least 3 days (unless you see a drop). It is so much easier to increase the dose if needed than to take it out of the cat once injected. Once injected, the insulin WILL work and will take all sugar from the body. At low levels, the brain is not able to function and thus the staggering and lethargy symptoms. I only emphasize this because it appears that the vet is not aware of the extreme dangers of hypoglycemia.

If your kitty has crystal problems, then wet food with water added will help a lot with that problem as well. Check Dr. Lisa's site for info on bladder health.
www.catinfo.org

FWIW, I think that your cat would be better off at home with you giving a small dose of insulin and monitoring the bg. The bg numbers at the vet will nearly always be higher because of stress, and if that is what the vet is basing the dose on, the cat may be overdosed again. This is all costing you a lot of $$$ that you really don't need to be spending.

Sorry if this comes across as a little strong, but it really upsets me to see a cat being overdosed by vet. You know the basics - how to inject and how to test. The experienced members on the Lantus support group can help you with the rest.
 
AndrewPL said:
Thanks Amy!

I appreciate all of the advice given on this board!
I agree and feel that 3u was way to high to start off on, unfortunatly I dropped him off at the vet in the morning and they gave him the dose and monitored his blood levels all day. I had hoped they would have started out slow but they said according to the chart he should have been on 3.6u but it is very hard to give half a dose. I am glad they didn't as that could have ended up very badly!
Click to expand...

My cat is 22lbs and had a BG of around 24 at diagnosis, and my vet thought about giving him 2 units to start. According to the LAntus info you should be dosing your cat based on it's IDEAL weight, and even 2 units was TOO MUCH for Noxin. There is no way any chart says your cat should be 3.6 units on Lantus.

After 2 weeks 1 unit became too much for my 22lb cat. Be careful. My vet didn't really appreciate my warning that I had switched to lower carb wet food.
 
I wanted to thank everyone so far for the support and advise.

So far Bear has been really good and is back to his usual self, wanting cuddles and playing with the other kitties rather than sleeping under the table all the time.

After he had the 3ul shot (which was way to much) he had a 1ul shot 2 days later but again dipped way too low and was at 2.2.

Over the weekend we kept checking his blood level and he was around 6-12 most of the weekend.

On Sunday night (I believe) he woke me up at 3am and wouldn't leave me alone so I gave him some food, in my half awake state I made a huge mistake and gave him what I thought was a low carb packet food but may have had gravy on it which would have been higher than I thought. The next day his reading was 17.8 at around 4:30pm after we fed him his usual fancy feast classic dinner, later at 8:30pm he was down to around 11.9.
The only other thing I can think of for him being that high might have him getting into some of the other cats food. We still have a lot of Royal cannin biscuits (2bags of 15kg) and my 4 other cats were getting fussy so I put some down for them and locked bear away in another part of the house. One of our cats is pretty good at opening doors or getting where ever she wants to go so she may have let him out as they usually wake me up around 6am and I go back to sleep afterwards. If that was the case he wouldn't have had many.

please understand I don't want to feed my other cats high carb biscuits any more but some times they can make it really hard when they refuse to eat, annoy you at night and look up at you with thier cut sad faces.

Yesterday (Tuesday) our vet asked us to take some more blood levels, all of the levels looked really good. Hopefully he can keep this up!

4:30pm - 5.6 (before we fed him)
7:30pm - 7.9
10pm - 6.7 (before we fed him before we went to bed)

Cheers,
Andrew
 
It sounds like you and Bear are doing very well.

With his numbers, he may be a cat that is very sensitive to carbs. I don't know whether you can find it in New Zealand, but Evo makes the lowest dry carb food. It is not ideal since wet food is better for cats in many ways, not just carb count (www.catinfo.org) but it might get you over the hump until you can regulate the diets of everyone and get a feeding plan down.
 
Are those numbers without insulin?
If so they are looking very good.
There are people here who give their cats half, a quarter, or even a tenth of a unit of insulin, to regulate them at each shot time.
Noxin got what I thought was around one-tenth of a unit for a very short while when he was giving me numbers around 6 and 7.

That 2.2 is quite low. Glad you caught it!
 
Thanks Sue, Cherie

The weekend numbers are with out insulin. Our vet said to keep monitoring him and if he spikes high again we'll need to give him another shot at the vet but I would hope it would be a micro amount next time.

It does look like he is now sensitive to carbs. He loves the fancy feast so we'll keep him on that, I do wish NZ had a better range with EVO/Wellness but I am glad there is fancy feast as most of the other cat foods are rubbish.

It may have been the steroid that pushed him over the edge and now that has left his body his beta cells are producing insulin again, I'm sure if we didn't catch it and switch him to low carbs when we did he would be in a much worse state!

Regards,
Andrew
 
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