Newly Diagnosed, Bg 533 - Prozinc, Lantus or just diet?

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sweetmelissa444

Member Since 2013
HELP!! I'd LOVE any information. My 10 YO male cat was diagnosed Fri. with a Bg of 533, he'd been peeing bricks and the last week or so he'd been down in his hind hocks. His blood results (she checked everything) were perfect - except for his glucose. We decided to go for a month of switching his diet. He'd been on Blue Buffalo dry and about 1/4 can of Friskies daily and LOADS of dry treats. Since about 5 days ago, he's been on canned food exclusively; namely Friskies and Fancy Feast (no gravies or sauces.) My BIG problem is he is a WILDCAT. He's a tabby but I rescued him years ago from a brutal situation and I have to sedate him to get him to the vet. He will NOT let me test from his ears. The vet said to do the diet change and bring him back in a month and she'd check him again. Any suggestions at all would be VERY MUCH APPRECIATED. Her suggested insulin is Prozinc but another friend suggest Lantus, said you get more cats weaned off of insulin (50%) with Lantus.

Thanks !!!
 
Poor little guy! I have a house-feral cat. He was feral, then decided he wanted to see the inside of my house. He ended up under my bed for about six months. He's much, much friendlier now but I can't imagine getting him to sit still and be held for testing! Maybe you could start just petting his head, then move to petting his ears, then move to holding his ears. Slow the process down and see if he can ease into it?

Try the diet first. It may make a big difference. It's too bad he won't let you test him...I'm sure the stress of the vet's office is sending his BG through the roof, too.
There are people here who use each insulin. I imagine they both have their pros and cons. I think there are sticky posts in each insulin support group that could give you some additional information. I use Lantus and haven't had any issues with it yet, but I know some vets prefer ProZinc.

Welcome aboard!
 
Thats great that you are taking such good care of a feral cat - you are angel!... Q: Is he indoors now only? I know many outdoor cats manage to sneak high carb foods from other sources.

I second MBMinx though, it sounds like you will have to try diet for now. Did you check the foods you are giving him now are low carb under 10% (see this list http://www.catinfo.org/docs/Food Chart Public 9-22-12.pdf) And also his treats should be too.

Does he use a litter box indoors? I wonder if we can use other methods to at least measure status such as urine testing i.e. https://docs.google.com/document/pub?id=1r6ktdF7AMJCYHgPkVQWFUFy5Ag6OnbmfNfQqL3zX_88
 
Thanks! I'm going to get a glucometer. What kind do you suggest? Thanks!

Squeak is exclusively INDOORS. He does use a litterbox (in fact, THREE of them) - for different kinds 'of business.'

He's a dream cat - a tabby with the most beautiful, thick coat you have ever seen. Cold, wet nose, too! I just want to do what's best but my other problem is that I work so he's alone for 12 hour stretches at a time. I worry about overdosing.
 
I would say I could get blood from his ear before I could his paw. He's very touchy. Unless I could sedate him like I did to get him to the vet and i really really HATE doing that to him.
 
I am rethinking this and am going to retract what I said about diet only. I am going to have an expert pop over and see what they think.

If you start stroking his ears and get him used to it, you may be able to do the blood test over time. The Walmart relion is cheap and reliable... especially for strips.

But I'd like an expert to comment on giving insulin without blood testing.. how safe that is etc.. because giving an insulin shot is easy and painless and he wont even notice it, especially if he is eating and distracted. So you may be able to give insulin and use the secondary tools to measure. .. watch this space.
 
A lot of people here use the Walmart ReLion glucometers. The Confirm and Prime are popular, and pretty inexpensive. They've got some of the cheapest test strips on the market and the meters always seem to make the list for Consumer Reports "best buys". There are expensive pet meters out there, but a lot of people use human meters and get by just fine.
If you're more comfortable shopping online, you can click the link above for American Diabetes Wholesale. They sell the Arkray Glucocard 01 which is the same thing as the ReLion Confirm. I have both a pet meter (AlphaTrak2) and a human meter (Arkray Glucocard Vital) and so far my tests have been within about 30 points of each other.

I'm certainly no expert, but maybe you can ease into this. Try changing his diet for a month, like you said. See where that gets you. Maybe that will give him time to get used to you playing with his ears so you can test him. Some cats just need the diet change and then they're fine. After you've got diet under control, then you can consider insulin therapy. And remember to breathe! That's very important.
 
Take a look at my signature link Secondary Monitoring Tools. There are some indirect indicators which may be helpful in monitoring status.

And take a look at this file from Dr Rand of the University of Queensland, particularly the bottom part of the table. It makes use of some of those indirect monitoring options to adjust dose.
link3.pdf

It may not be optimal, but you've got to go with what you can actually acoomplish right now.
 
some people really cannot test their cats, so you can always try the items you can use to put in the litter that changes colors.
Get rid of all dry food and treats, go with the lowest carb wet food, and try the litter way of judging the BG via urine. It's not the best way by a long shot, but it's better than nothing.

How positive are you that you will not be able to test the cat?
Also, would you be able to give the cat insulin shots?
 
Welcome to the boards!

My cats were all feral kittens but calmed down although my sugar-cat - Honey - is still a little 'frisky'!

I'd start now getting him used to be touched on the ears and give him a favourite, low-carb treat when you do. They also have to be ok sitting still for the testing with maybe a little restraint from you - again, the treat should help.
Most cats love the Purebits Freeze Dried Chicken (Petsmart, Petco, Amazon) but there are other choices too.

Even if diet controlled, you'll still need to test ideally, and it will be easier in the long run than having to go to the vet.

I use Relion Confirm but the Relion Prime is very good and has cheaper test strips. I poke with the lancet device-thingy but some people free-hand and just hold the lancet. If you use the device, you should get him use to the 'click' noise it makes before doing a test - just so you don't freak him out with that.
 
Thanks! Let me know what the expert says.

I think I can give insulin shots. I can do that before he knows what hits him. It's the testing that will send us both over the edge. Let me know what everyone else thinks. This is just the worst. Wouldn't be so bad if he were a mean cat but he's just the sweetest little thing. Only 10 lbs. of pure love and joy. It kills me. After work I'm going to a holistic place and get him possibly on a raw food diet. I believe they can order it for him. That way I don't have to worry with making it and it will have all the nutrients he needs. Thanks everyone! You are all angels to help us!

Lisa (and Squeak!)
 
Hi Lisa and welcome onboard !
I don't think it is totally impossible, I'm sure he trust you somehow because you feed him. my kitty use to give me a hard time testing, it took us a year to make her can and stop hitting my hand and trying to bite whenever I poke or inject her ! now she is all calm and quite, she is even taking a nap while I poke her ear :-D it doesn't bother her at all, I think she doesn't feel it. I try to make it less stressful for her and me. I start by petting her head and touching her ears so she is all calm and sweet, I also keep taking to her while poking her about food. the word "yummy" make her happy .. :-D

I think you should stay positive and keep trying until he's used to it. cuz I know it's very important to test.. safer for him !

good luck and all the best.


Aseel & Noni
 
You could take it to the vet next time you are there. There will be a difference of course but it will give you an idea of how your and his numbers vary. What does the vet say about the insulin?
 
Here's a great condo on testing difficult cats and it includes a wonderful video done by one of our members whose cat would bite her....he's probably the most violent cat I've seen when it comes to testing.

So watch it and get some tips because your kitty needs insulin and you don't want to shoot blind. I'd get a glucometer and use Bonnie's tips to try and test him and see where his BG is at home. It's probably going to be high...hopefully not as high as at the vet but likely high.

If you can work with him a couple days and get his BG so you know once you give insulin you can test, it would be a great thing. The longer he is left high, the greater his chance of becoming insulin resistant. If you get him right on canned food and insulin, he might stand a good chance of going into remission. But the longer you leave him at high numbers, the longer it could take.

But I cannot over stress.......no dry food. I hope the video will help. By the time Junior went into remission, he was letting Bonnie test him without the burrito.

And here's a post I did on Testing and shooting Tips. It helps if you freehand.

I'll check back tomorrow in case you have questions.
 
Re: Newly Diagnosed, Bg 533 - and constipated

I have not started to test my cat that was diagnosed FD on Friday. He's a wildcat but I'm going to Walmart after work today and picking up a ReliOn Prime Blood Glucometer. Let me know if I should get a different one than this.

And, as of last night, with changing Squeak's diet to exclusively canned food, I'm afraid he's become constipated. Any suggestions?? Thanks!
 
I've heard that mixing extra water with the canned food can help that. Some people use a tiny bit of Miralax, others use a little bit of butter or olive oil to help...ease things along...I'm not really sure. Pooping hasn't ever been a problem yet with my cats...
 
Extra water might work but I use Beechnut Homestyle Green Giant baby food squash mixed in the food.

I also forgot to add that insofar as insulins go, lantus is the only one with a scientifically based protocol to back up the % of cats that are on lantus that go into remission. It is a long duration insulin as opposed to Prozinc which is a medium duration insulin. Prozinc is dosed based on the preshot while lantus is dosed primarily on the nadir with some consideration given to preshot. Lantus and levemir are much gentler insulins.
 
Maybe you want to transition him to canned a bit more gradually if its causing issues to get him used to it. Whats your plan for insulin? yes/no/later?
 
Right now I'm giving him canned food exclusively. I tried raw (Bravo-chicken blend) last night. Got it from the holistic store. I put it in his dish - he looked at me like, "are you serious?" I even put it in the microwave on defrost to warm it - nothing. This morning it was still in his bowl. I have to leave him alone quite a bit due to family/job issues. So I gave him Wellness (canned.) He's OFF DRY - FOREVER. I'd been giving him Blue Buffalo and a small handfull of Friskies dry and SEVERAL treats when I'd leave him. NO MORE. I explained to him that our lives have changed. He seems OK with it. He a very hungry cat and eats his food well. I've read some FD cats refuse to eat. No my Squeak. Ravenous appetite. As for insulin, I'm going to get a glucometer tonight and 'try' to test him myself. As for him being so wild and rambunctious, not sure how this is going to work but I'm going to try. If he's still high, I'm going to use the Lantus. That seems to be what is recommended and I certainly want to what's best for him. Thanks everyone.
 
Just remember as you learn to test to stay calm! He will pick up on your anxiety so just act like it's routine. Rub ears like you normally would, sing a soft song, have tons of treats, and if you don't get blood the first time, don't keep poking at him. Wait a while and try again.

Don't forget to watch the video.
 
Molly was very feral in behavior....short tolerance for pats nor would she sit in your lap for cuddles...and at the vet...PSYCHOTIC by times.
When I found out she was diabetic, I had no idea how on earth i was going to manage to give her the insulin let alone do any Blood Glucose tests for safety.
maybe a few of the methods I used will be useful for you.
Started this way.....Dietary switch to canned only for 2 weeks(fancy feast classics) before starting the insulin........during this time, every evening I practiced holding her ear gently between my thumb and forefinger for as long as she would allow. A nice treat when I was through..each time. (I used these freeze dried meat treats from Purebites...can get at pet store ...no sugar added.....watch out for sliced meats and rotisserie chickens etc...they all have dextrose added which is guess what? sugar)
The ear warming thing worked especially well if she was sleepy...after a couple of days she figured out that no harm was intended and tolerated it. Next, I brought the glucometer out with a few test strips and off an on, tested myself so she got used to those beeping sounds it makes...giving her a treat after each test for myself (so she got to liking the beep sound and waiting for her shrimp)....the reason I did this was because later, when you do real testing of the cat, that beep goes off right next to their ear and depending upon how easily strung out your cat is could cause an issue.
After a few days of this, with she and I relaxing a bit about it all...I tried testing her ear using the methods recommended on this site....didn't go well the first few times because she didn't like being held still and because I was a nervous wreck about it (it helps to have a cotton ball on the other side of the ear when doing the lance....made it much easier)...and bumbling around trying to find meter and not have her shake her head before I could get the blood drop etc....
It was about 2 weeks of this when I felt I might actually be able to do it.....and lo and behold...Molly actually started to like the ritual...especially the shrimp part. For the shot part, the vet showed me how and let me practice right there in the office with water....make sure they show you how to read the marks on the syringe too, some have half unit markings and some do not. We used Lantus.
Oddly over the past 2 months that we did this (Molly's in remission now), Molly became more affectionate and cuddly...I can tell she feels SO much better.
I just tell you this so you know at first it's going to be really really hard and you're going to be so scared and stressed....after just a few weeks...it gets so much easier. Let us know how it goes!
 
My Squeak is still on Fancy Feast Classics (but no fish) - his BG was 533 2 weeks ago. I'm trying the diet first and I want to check his BG - but can't get blood out of his little ears. I'm doing it all right - massaging his ears, the warm rice sock (which he LOVES and almost goes to sleep) but I can't get any blood! I tried free handing then I bought the pen. I'm using the Reli On Prime glucometer and so far have only tested myself. I'm now at 122!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! And, I wanted to order him some Methyl B12. I'm afraid I ordered the wrong kind. Here's the site where I ordered (and the kind.) Any info. would be appreciated. I'm going crazy here!!! Thanks, Lisa and Squeak
 

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hello

thats great that you tried testing.. it can be hard to get blood from some cats so I have a few more tips to try and some questions - dont give up yet!

1. rReally make sure that ear is nice and warm to the touch.
2. Can you see the ear vein? If not buy a mini flashlight (like the "usb mini torch" on ebay) so you can see the sweet spot. It also gives you something to push against. Be sure to poke the sweet spot, or if that fails.. go for the vein but be ready with your cotton ball cos it could bleed quite a bit.
3. Get something to push against and put it behind the ear.. a pill bottle or something so that when you poke you have a firm thing to push against.
4. What size lancets are you using? Start with a larger gauge lancet such as 28g or 29g and freehand it.
5. check these extra tips on how to hold the lancet and where the sweet spot is http://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=85113&sid=f879ae1b252b8eaaff5e96c61ed09659

hows the constiptation?

As for methylcobalamin.. many people here use zobaline which is safe for cats cos it doesnt have xylitol or sugar in it. I think yours looks ok though but I would look close at that label when it comes in.

Wendy
 
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