newly diagnosed and won't eat

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jkluckycharms

jkluckycharms

Member Since 2012
My cat Lucky is 8 years old and was diagnosed last Monday with diabetes. His blood sugar at the vet was 537. The vet put him on 2u of lantis 2x daily. He also has an agression disorder which makes it difficult him to go to the vet as he has to be sedated. Everything seemed to be going fine until saturday night. He vomited up his food at his evening feeding just a few minutes after I gave him his injection. I waited 30 minutes and mixed 1/2 can with a little water and left it for him. Throughout the night he ate it. The next morning I gave him his canned food and he vomited again and I did not give him his injection. I took him to the emergency room and the checked for pancreatitis, liver function, kidney function, x-rays and nothing was remarkable except for his glucose it was 337. They gave him anti-nausea medicine and we went home. He ate maybe 5 oz of food later that day and maybe 2 oz yesterday. I talked to his regular vet yesterday and she told me to reduce his lantis to 1u 2x daily is he's not eating properly. I've tried different cans, mixed with water and not, I've tried dried food and even tuna from a can and he takes a couple bites and turns his head away. I'm a little nervous and worried and wondered if anyone else had problems like this?
 
Welcome to the board!!! There are many experienced members here to help you! You are in the best place you could possibly be to help Lucky!

2 units is a higher starting dose than is typically recommended by the more experienced members here. Have you been able to get any blood glucose tests yet at home? That will help you to know if the Lantus is too high or too low. Most members of the board have learned to home test.. - even me, and I thought I was a "lost cause" at the beginning. All you have to do is buy a human blood glucose meter, some test strips, and some lancets to prick the ear. Many of the members here, including me, use the Relion Micro from Walmart. It costs something like $12 and you can get the 100 test strips for about $36 (or you can buy them in smaller quantities too). Here's a great link to read up on home testing: http://binkyspage.tripod.com/faq.html#glucose

For your lancets, you will want to get a 26 or 28 gauge. The 31 gauge are often too fine for beginners and it is harder to get blood from the cat's ear using them.

The home testing is the single greatest thing you can do for Lucky. It will allow you to properly manage his diabetes and avoid a lot of costly vet visits, and keep Lucky safe. It is not safe to shoot insulin into Lucky without knowing his blood glucose readings. It is just like a human diabetic; they test their blood before every shot - to make sure the level they are injecting is safe for them that day; and cats are the same. Most of us test at home and send our "spreadsheets" (where we keep track of the readings) to our vet to evaluate, and we get guidance from the more experienced members of this board on dose increases or decreases.

I would also tell you that blood tests done at your vets office or the emergency room are often unreliable. When a cat is under stress (like he is when going to the vet), the stress increases the cat's blood glucose levels considerably. So while Lucky may have had a 350 reading at the emergency room, if you had tested at home where Lucky is comfortable, his blood glucose might have been considerably lower -- say 200 or 250. The board recommends all routine BG (blood glucose) tests be done at home -- including curves -- and that is what my vet recommended as well.

The other question I would ask you, did you change Lucky's food after he was diagnosed? Sometimes abrupt food changes (like going from dry to wet overnight or going from one brand to another) can result in cats vomiting or rejecting their food.

The members of this board recommend wet food over dry for your cat. The important thing to understand about the food is that dry food contains a high level of carbohydrates that dramatically increase your cat's blood sugar. Some cats, that were changed from dry food to a low carbohydrate wet food, do not need insulin at all after just the food switch alone; but all cats that are changed to a low carb wet food will need less insulin as a result. Their blood glucose readings can drop 100 points or more, just from the food change from dry to wet food. Here's a great article from a vet discussing why low carbohydrate food is critical for diabetic cats: http://www.catinfo.org/?link=felinediabetes

Many members here feed their cats Fancy Feast, the "classic" pate varieties (Fancy Feast is not bad for your cat, contrary to what others may have told you). There are many other brands to choose from though if you don't like Fancy Feast. Most members DO NOT recommend the "prescription foods" (like the Hills M/D, R/D, etc) -- the ones typically sold in vet's offices, whether canned or dry. They all contain too many carbohydrates and are too expensive. They do not contain any prescription medications or any magic ingredients that will help your cat. We do not know why so many vets prescribe this food, but honestly, it is not the best for your diabetic cat. The link above will explain in more detail.

Members will be here to help you pretty much 24/7. All you have to do is post your questions and someone will be along shortly with guidance.

Melanie
 
Hello and Welcome,
It doesn't sound like you are home testing. It is very important for you and Lucky that you start right away.
Without home testing, giving an insulin shot to a cat without knowing what the glucose level is before you give the shot
is like driving your car with a paper bag on your head.

Since Lucky is aggressive, I'm betting Lucky gets extremely stressed having all those hands and strangers. The numbers you get at the vet aren't going to be the same as at home.
It sounds like Lucky is sensitive to overstimulation and you may have to work a little to desensitize. Melanie is great at advising
on that.

The throwing up could be a part of that. You probably had a little bit of a struggle giving that shot.
It could also be that the dose is already too high because his glucose level dropped after he got back to his safe home.
My cat stays stressed out for another day or so after going to the vet. I can tell because she walks around the house and
her fur has that mad cat look like she just had a horrible scare.

Let us know if the food switch is new because that too can have a huge effect on the glucose numbers.
 
Thank you for your responses. The vet did recommend that we change Lucky to a wet food diet to help with the diabetes. She did recommend the DM; however, I have been feeding him fancy feast for years and have not changed that as of yet. I did remove the dry food from him after his diagnosis. He had been responding well up until Saturday evening. I talked to the vet this morning again . . . we've gotten use to our 8:30am phone calls every morning. He had low potassium readings on both of his blood work, which she says can cause him to feel 'like a wet noodle' and not eat so I am giving him a potassium supplement and we are also concerned because he has 2 resorptive lesions on his teeth so we've also given him pain meds so we can determine if they need pulled immediately. We were hoping to get his diabetes regulated before doing this. Lucky has been very good about getting his insulin shots, he sits right down when I bring it over and doesn't show any signs of struggle. The vet and I actually talked about starting testing at home and doing a curve, because she won't be able to do one at the office without causing him great stress. I'm just kinda scared to be pricking him in the ear cause I feel like I'd be hurting him, but I do understand the benefits and risks of knowing his level vs. not knowing. Right know I'm just really wanting that little guy to eat, eat, eat.
 
The best way to get over the fear of causing his ears pain? Poke yourself on the fingertip. It really doesn't hurt bad. Then remember that there are lot more nerve endings that sense pain on your finger than on his ears. I think it's because it draws blood that we associate the poke with "pain". With my cat Bob, he resented having his ear held by my one hand more than he cared about the poker in the other hand.

Bob also suffered from long term low potassium levels. Low potassium causes general muscle weakness, so yes, they act like wet noodles and are pretty lethargic. It wasn't until I got his K levels up that he started being more active and felt much like playing or jumping up on furniture. He laid around a whole lot for a few weeks. It didn't seem to affect his appetite though. The lesions Lucky has could be making him not want to eat.

Carl
 
Your vet seems very knowledgeable- changing his food to canned (DM, not so much0 would you like to eat liver all day?), great insulin, and home testing.

A few things-
The fancy feast- look for the classics. Grilled, roasted, gravy- all are high carbed and should be avoided. You can, however, add water to the pate and make gravy from the cube. See if sprinkling parmesean cheese on top will be a hook to get him to eat.

The teeth- that might be some of the problem. Irritation to them or something. Whatever it is, if Lucky needs a dental his numbers will not come down until it is done.

This can also be leading to an infection and you need to get keto-sticks from the pharmacy to check his ketones. The formula for DKA is not enough insulin, not enough food, and an infection (plus a few others but those are the biggies)- and that is a large bill and can be quite fatal. The last DCIN cat to have DKA costed $4-5000.

Home testing- it really isn't that difficult. Find a treat Lucky likes that is protein and low carbed- Pure Bites has freeze-dried shrimp, chicken, beef- and basically bribe him. Ear pokies equals treats. Most of the cats on the board here LOVE the bribes we give. There are several videos to watch on u-tube that show it- though it might not be easy at the start. Just start rubbing his ears when you go by him. Get him used to them being touched. Buy a human glucometer and test strips- Wal-mart Relion is a good brand with the cheapest strips around. Do NOT get anything with TRUE in the name or the freestyle lite meter with the butterfly strips- both of these are not cat friendly and do not report accurately for felines. Start off with the lowest gauge lancets you can find- 26 or 28. These are larger and will make larger holes at the beginning. After a few weeks the testing will be second nature- my cat Sneakers knows she gets tested before eating and will sit obediently for the poke.

Good luck on Mr. Lucky Charms!
 
Hello again,
I just wrote all of this and it diappeared so I'm writing it up again.

My cat has odontoclastic resorptive lesions too. They can be painful. I had to learn a lot about this one.
The best test for whether or not your cat has dental pain is whether or not He chatters ( like shivering) when you
scratch/pet his face such as the whisker area or the chin.

I"m glad you pulled the dry. Had he been eating it normally or was he hesitant with it?

The pain med could very well be his problem with eating and throwing up. Because of our last 2 surgeries,
I researched pain medications for cats and that's an area that is really lacking in enough research. They have not conquered this area for felines.
Cats do not handle pain medications well at all. Most of the meds have so many negative side affects for
cats that they are almost better off without them. But who wants their cat to be in pain.
My girl came home all glassy eyed and freaked out after surgery. She couldn't sleep. It was as if she had eaten
the entire coffee bean plant . :o
It really overstimulated her system and she was so miserable on pain meds that the vet and I determined she
was better off without.
A cat that is in a lot of pain will hide..... under the bed, back of the closet, they pretty much only come out to
eat.
Ask your vet about the pain medication Lucky is on. It is very likely what is causing the vomiting either by itself or in combination with the insulin. I would want to discontinue it , see if Lucky starts eating again and get that surgery scheduled if that was why Lucky is puking.

My cat had to have all her fangs pulled this past March. The odontoclastic resorptive lesions are basically
causing the teeth to fracture. The surgery is absolutely necessary to get the fractured teeth out. It's not
the same as most dental surgeries because it's not rotting teeth....

You should look and see which fancy feasts varieties you've been feeding. If you have the high carb ones,
put them away for your future hypo kit, especially the gravy ones.

But I would not hesitate on getting the teeth taken care of. The recovery time will be good for you to get
all the right varieties of food.
I would return any prescription canned food because they are too high in carbs for diabetic cats. Other conditions , sure, but not when it's just for diabetes. You are better off with the fancy feast classics.

Getting the teeth taken care of, getting on the right food, you may be surprised how much your numbers will drop
from that initial test.

We all want Lucky to feel better.
 
Lucky's is eating the classic fancy feast entrees since he got his diagnosis, i was reading over the board and learned that right away. The doc on Sunday checked for ketones and so far it's negative. Although I'm not sure how quickly that can turn around. I got him to eat 1/2 can of fancy feast since I've gotten home at 5:30 est, so I'm hoping he'll eat a little more before bedtime. I think he does do a version of the the teeth chattering cause when I'm rubbing his face and I rub along the side of his lips he keeps moving his mouth like he's eating. He seems a little peppier since he's gotten the potassium supplement this afternoon - kinda acting like his normal self. His white blood cell count was on the high side of normal on Sunday and the vet was asking me this earlier today cause she was still waiting for the tests from the er, which they did get this afternoon. So I wonder if she's worrying about an infection from the tooth as well so I'll see when I talk to her tomorrow. Thanks all for the help.
 
Yes.
the moving the mouth like he's eating is the sign that his teeth are indeed hurting.

Unfortunately, you can't just get a cat to open wide and say ahh to get a good look for infection and inflamation.
 
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