Newly diagnosed (3/14/12) and all over the charts

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SugarFreeLucy

SugarFreeLucy

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Hi Everyone,

I am here for my newly diagnosed diabetic fur baby Lucy. She is about 9 years old, and was diagnosed March 14th 2012. I have been feeding her dry food ever since I have had her (I plead ignorance here as I had no idea how terrible it was for her!)

She is currently on 3u of Lantus, I am testing at home (minimun 2x daily) and am in the process of transitioning to wet food. I am currently feeding dry Purina DM - 1/4c per day as well as a combo canned DM and Fancy Feast as I also hope to get off the expensive vet foods, but need to finish what I have first! Oh and I have an awesome vet, I check in every couple of days and she is very supportive and the clinic has several diabetic patients (both cats and dogs).

I am am confused and becoming stressed about the lack of progress we seem to be making with her BG numbers. I have completed a spreadsheet for her, but don't quite know how to post it at the bottom of my page, so here is the link to the google document:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc ... JRFE#gid=0

I am especially concerned about today's numbers...her PMPS was 4.8 so she didn't get insulin (vet advises no shot if she is under 10), she had her dinner as usual, when I tested 2 hours later, she was back up to 16.1 and then four hours after she is at 19.5. ohmygod_smile

If anyone has any advice I would greatly appreciate it...my next vet check in is Monday, but can call and speak with the clinic if needed before.

Thanks a bunch!
Lucy and her mom (Val)
 
SugarFreeLucy said:
Hi Everyone,

I am here for my newly diagnosed diabetic fur baby Lucy. She is about 9 years old, and was diagnosed March 14th 2012. I have been feeding her dry food ever since I have had her (I plead ignorance here as I had no idea how terrible it was for her!)

She is currently on 3u of Lantus, I am testing at home (minimun 2x daily) and am in the process of transitioning to wet food. I am currently feeding dry Purina DM - 1/4c per day as well as a combo canned DM and Fancy Feast as I also hope to get off the expensive vet foods, but need to finish what I have first! Oh and I have an awesome vet, I check in every couple of days and she is very supportive and the clinic has several diabetic patients (both cats and dogs).

I am am confused and becoming stressed about the lack of progress we seem to be making with her BG numbers. I have completed a spreadsheet for her, but don't quite know how to post it at the bottom of my page, so here is the link to the google document:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc ... JRFE#gid=0

I am especially concerned about today's numbers...her PMPS was 4.8 so she didn't get insulin (vet advises no shot if she is under 10), she had her dinner as usual, when I tested 2 hours later, she was back up to 16.1 and then four hours after she is at 19.5. ohmygod_smile

If anyone has any advice I would greatly appreciate it...my next vet check in is Monday, but can call and speak with the clinic if needed before.

Thanks a bunch!
Lucy and her mom (Val)
Click to expand...

Hi Val,
It's great to see you are changing over to wet low carb food, and don't feel bad about not knowing.... not many people do know that the dry is just bad.
Your having the spreadsheet is great as well, but you have to now SHARE the sheet, so it allows others to view the data. Right now it says do not have permissions to view.... top right corner, click on the Share..

Where are you located? Your saying you got a 4.8 readings says to me you are not in the US.

The dose you are giving is high; most cats don't ever need a dose as high at 3u BID, but with the dry food, it's likely stopping Lucy from any hypo incidents. That 4.8 is possibly letting you know that lower numbers are on the way because you are switching over the foods,.... so you will be wanting to drop the 3u dose to avoid Lucy going too low.
Hypo info:
List of Hypo symptoms
How to treat HYPOS-They can kill! Print this out!
Jojo’s HYPO TOOLKIT

I am afraid it's going to be a bumpy road with the dry food in the picture, especially if Val is very sensitive to carbs. My Shadoe would have numbers soaring if she ate just one small mouthful of dry food.

Be sure to drop the dose as you are seeing lower numbers.
 
Hi again,

Ok, so I have changed the settings on Lucy's spreadsheet, so hopefully when you click the link you will be able to see it:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc ... JRFE#gid=0

I am in Ontario, Canada hence why my numbers are quite different!

I have reduced Lucy's dose to 2.5u this morning even though she was quite high again - likely because she didn't have her PM shot yesterday due to low numbers. I was wondering if her high dose was stopping us from seeing the lower numbers!

I knew dry food could make her numbers rise, but didn't realize the little bit she was getting would be so powerful! I am 100% fine with stopping it all together and just feeding dry, but then I worry about her being hungry! The vet is supportive as to the change however she said I need to make sure her calorie intake is the same. I assume that I just need to do a wee bit of math to figure out how much to feed her?!?

The vet feels that she is at little risk for being hypo since her numbers are very high to begin with....when her numbers were very low (under100) she was not showing any symptoms at all!

Sorry if I am all over the place, I am just getting concerned that there is something I am not doing correctly and that by having Lucy's numbers all over the place she is at risk of side effects.

Thanks for any help!
Val
 
Hi Val,

Unfortunately a cat can have a hypo even when their BG has been high, all it takes is too much insulin. On too much insulin, the blood glucose will stay high sometimes, but have dips like you saw, so you might think it's not enough insulin, when it's actually too much. Lucy is more than likely getting too much insulin, the starting dose for Lantus is no more than 1U. Lantus and another insulin called Levemir work differently from other insulins, which some vets may not yet realize. We however do understand them and are your best resource for success.

A very important protocol to help you understand how to make Lantus work well for Lucy was developed in Europe. http://www.tillydiabetes.net/en_6_protocol2.htm

Would your vet take the food back that you say you have to feed since it was expensive? Most vets will if you tell them your cat won't eat it. DM isn't that bad of food in terms of carbs, but it's still dry food. Another website for you to read is by a marvelous vet who we have the utmost respect for, Dr. Lisa Pierson. She has tips to help transition cats from dry to canned or raw foods. http://www.catinfo.org

Here's one more link, which is about diabetes treatment in cats & dogs, but it's done by the American Animal Hospital Association and they have very strict standards for their certified clinics: http://www.aahanet.org/PublicDocuments/AAHADiabetesGuidelines.pdf It may also be something you want to share with your vet. They recommend a low carb diet and starting dose of 1U as best.

You are doing great so far because you are testing! That is the only way you knew she was too low to give insulin to the other morning.
 
Vicky & Gandalf (GA) said:
Would your vet take the food back that you say you have to feed since it was expensive? Most vets will if you tell them your cat won't eat it. DM isn't that bad of food in terms of carbs, but it's still dry food. Another website for you to read is by a marvelous vet who we have the utmost respect for, Dr. Lisa Pierson. She has tips to help transition cats from dry to canned or raw foods. http://www.catinfo.org

Here's one more link, which is about diabetes treatment in cats & dogs, but it's done by the American Animal Hospital Association and they have very strict standards for their certified clinics: http://www.aahanet.org/PublicDocuments/AAHADiabetesGuidelines.pdf It may also be something you want to share with your vet. They recommend a low carb diet and starting dose of 1U as best.
Click to expand...


Thanks for the links Vicky! I will ask the vet about taking back the dry food when I talk to her on Monday. I have stopped feeding it to her anyway, just canned now to see how it works out....she loves the wet food!

Lucy was started on 2u when she first was diagnosed, but we have gone up to 3 since she was all over the place. I will share the links with the vet so hopefully we can figure something out. I have reduced her insulin to 2.5u and will try and test often as we are home for the weekend. I am hoping that the canned food and slowly reducing her insulin will have positive results!
 
Good luck with Lucy now that you have taken the dry away!
Be very careful in watching her BG numbers because she could drop in dose quickly.
The ps numbers are not as important as the lower numbers in the middle, so if she drops low in the middle, of course she may bounce high by the time of the next shot.

I bet the 2.5u will end up being on the high side, so watch to make sure you catch any lows.
It may take a day or so to get all that dry food out of her system, so it's great you are able to test her over the weekend!

If you get any lower numbers that worry you, be sure to post and put the BG number in your subject line so people can know what you are getting.
 
Welcome Val and extra sweet Lucy!

GOOD JOB taking the dry food away! It usually takes about 2 1/2-3 days for the BG from dry food to work out of their systems so keep a close watch when that time arrives! Couple of more tests throughout the day will probably show you amazing things!!

One thing to keep in mind that I had a hard time with - insulin is a HORMONE that should be secreted by the pancreas. It is NOT a chemical medicine that can be dosed like, for example, thyroid medicine in humans. Insulin works with the body to create the energy the body uses but is affected by the types of food (carb %'s) as well as external things like high stress, visitors, barking dogs, lots of things. Don't let yourself get hung up on finding that 'perfect dose to work each time'....the numbers will always vary a bit. You'll end up beating yourself up needlessly - home testing is the key to being sure Lucy is safe. I'm SO PROUD OF YOU for already doing it!!!!!

BIG HUG!!!!
 
Fluctuations in blood glucose may occur for many reasons

- food changes - going from 100% dry to 100 % low carb wet may result in a drop of as much as 100 points US /5.5 World

- insulin dose changes or timing changes - due to the depot (ie 'shed') nature of long acting insulins, shooting early is like a dose increase; shooting late is like a dose decrease. That's why it needs to be as close to 12 hours between shots as possible. When we hit time changes we adjust the shot time earlier or later by no more than 30 minutes per day. For a sensitive cat, it may need to be smaller increments adjustments.

- timing of meals - some feed several small meals if they have a cat who will eat it all at once, causing a meal spike in glucose. If you've a cat that gobbles, then leaves for a while, coming back to nibble, you may want to split meals and/or maybe used a timed feeder, or freeze some to have it thaw slowly, which reduces scarfing.

- activity level - aim for 2 play sessions of roughly 15 min a day as exercise may help the insulin work better with the glucose. plus it helps with stress and improves the bond between you

- appetite/intake changes - due food preference or formula changes, kitty 'colds', comorbid health problems such as diarrhea, vomiting, bladder/renal infection. dental infection (common! be sure this is ruled out!), pancreatitis, inflammatory bowel disease, renal failure,and liver disease (these 4 common), or other illness.
 
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