Newly diagnosed 13 yo rescue kitty from KS

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Judy and Pinkie

Judy and Pinkie

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Sherri: sorry I got confused and didn't realize I was to begin a new post for us. :sad: I hope this is right now. Thanks for the information. Blessings, Judy
by Judy and Pinkie » Tue Jan 19, 2010 10:03 am

Hi
PInkie and I are also new to this board. I'm not just sure how it works, and I hope this is the right place to post. Pinkie is a 13 yo rescue cat from Emporia, KS. She was dumped by her owners and the volunteer treated her for URI before she came to me. She was very think and her nose was plugged up thus she was not eating. Our vet gave me some steroid eye drops to use to reduce the swelling in her nose, but she drank water so much. The bloodwork at that time did not indicate diabetes then. She ate, drank lots of water and urinated a lot, and then she lost weight. We recently tested her glucose again and it was 321. We began 2 units of Vetsulin bid, and switched her to BG (grain free foods, both wet and dry). We have to keep her confined so she won't eat the other cats' food since they do not eat BG. I am finding the BG and all the grain free foods are very expensive. So it is a struggle to keep her on them, but we will do that no matter what.
Thank you for allowing me to join this site. Blessings, Judy and Pinkie in WY
 
I am grateful for this group and I am learning so much already. Thank you for sharing your information so I can help Pinkie feel better and be healthier. Judy in WY
 
I responded below your other post so I'll copy it here:

Victoria & Sundance said:
Judy, welcome...

Please feel free to post your message in a new thread. You will get more attention that way. I am going to report you post in order to ask a moderator to separate it to it's new thread if you cannot.


I do not know what your BG food is. Are you just referring to blood glucose or is it a brand of food? Most foods which are good for diabetics are good for other cats too. You might consider switching all your cats.

Also, 2 units of vetsulin is a high starting dose - especially after a food change. Are you testing her blood glucose with a glucometer? Have you read how to do that?

Please click on this link ( FDMB Frequently asked questions)and read through the information a couple of times. It's very important that you have a basic knowledge of what we will all refer to.

Also, I don't mean to scare you but there have been warnings sent to vets about the use of vetsulin and the vets have been told to consider prescribing other insulins. It appears your vet has not read those notices, and that worries me. You can read more about those warnings here: Vetsulin FDA Warning.
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Hi Judy, welcome to the board! You've come to the right place to help Pinkie and yourself. We have all been where you are, and we know how scary and overwhelming it can feel. We are here to help. :)

Victoria has already given you some good info and asked questions that we would like to have the answers to so we can better help you. Home testing your kitty's blood glucose (BG) is vital to the health and safety of Pinkie, and is really good for your peace of mind too. There are plenty of resources to help you learn how to do this, and although it can be difficult at first, the kitties soon learn to put up with it, and will eventually even come running when it's test time. :)

Please do take heed regarding the Vetsulin like Vic mentioned. As she said, not to scare you, but just so you are informed.

Ask any questions you can think of, and read all you can. There is a lot of great info here, and we will all help if you get overwhelmed.
 
I don't know the carbohydrate content of Before Grains food, but cats need moisture - no dry food is "good" for them.

There are some flavors of Fancy Feast and Friskies that are ok for diabetics (and less expensive). Since I have 4 cats, I feed Wellness canned food (chicken and turkey flavors) because I can get it in 12 oz cans. (got tired of popping 8 to 10 cans of fancy feast every day).

EVO 95% meat canned is also good, but my cats voted for Wellness. I thought the EVO 95% smelled good enough for ME to eat -- too bad my cats didn't care for it.

Print out Janet & Binky's canned food charts and take them shopping with you. Choose flavors containing less than 10% carbohydrates. (this data is NOT on pet food labels - hence you need the charts)
 
My rambling post got eaten, so here we go again:

Basically, I just looked at the Before Grains site (only the chicken options), and it looks like the canned food is designed for supplemental feeding only, because it contains only chicken and water, which is not a balanced diet. The dry food lists dehydrated potato as the third ingredient, so I'm wary of the carb. content. It is also advised to get rid of all dry food for a diabetic (see Dr. Lisa's feline nutrition site at www.catinfo.org).

I personally use Wellness grain free canned chicken, turkey, and occasionally turkey/salmon, as well as EVO kitten and cat food, and their 95% chicken/turkey flavors. I also use some raw food, but I don't want to complicate things for you. Both the Wellness and EVO come in large cans (12.5 and 13.5 oz. respectively), and are much cheaper than buying the smaller 5.5 oz cans. I don't use FF or so can't compare, but those cans are awfully small, and it seems like you'd go through a ton of them... I mix all the food with hot water to a thick milkshake consistency. Water is a wonderful thing for all kitties, but even more so for diabetics, and even more so for an elderly diabetic. My girl is diet controlled and 18+, and is doing great on these foods.

I want to reiterate the fact that a change to low carb. food will very likely lower blood glucose, so please be wary when using such a high starting dose of insulin. I also see that someone else pointed you to the FDA info. re: Vetsulin, so you have that info. already.

And also, WELCOME!! You have found the greatest site on the Web. I feel like I'm talking about Disney World, but it really is just about the greatest place on earth (for those of us with sugarbabies).
 
Is Pinkie still on the steroid eye drops? When they are stopped her insulin needs may decrease or she may not need insulin at all. Therefore, I recommendd that you monitor her BGs carefully and reduce dose as necessary.
 
Welcome! I am in the Overland Park area (suburb of Kansas City) if you need anything.. don't hesitate to holler.. I am a newbie but I have gained some skills, just cannot advise on Health or Dosing issues...!
 
Welcome and from my personal experience being a newbie as well. You are in a great place for support. If you need anything just ask. I always feel like i ask dumb questions because i feel like i need to know more about this and I have, unfortunalety was never given any of this info when my spicey was diagnosed. So please don't be afraid to ask questions. As someone told me a long time ago and I have always remembered that "No question is ever a dumb question"

David
 
Judy and Pinkie said:
Oh my! I wrote a long response and it says it saved it as a draft: now I can't find the draft? Help!
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I'm not aware of any drafts for posts... just in PMs. You might want to check your PM section for drafts.

I'm concerned because your first post now has a candle, which generally indicates that there has been a loss. :sad:
 
Another learning experience, Victoria. I have no clue what all these icons means, and my mistake on the candle was that it was representative of a light of hope. WIll avoid icons in the future.
I can't find the draft, but will rewrite it later this evening when I'm finished with the rescue chores here.
Since Vetsulin doesn't seem to be recommended here for cats, I would like to know which insulin is used the most by the members and where it can be purchased. If it requires a Rx, I can get that from my holisitic vet when I see her next week.
Also am not sure what I need to look for when I read the labels for the canned food(Friskies and Fancy Feast): I have looked at Janet's canned food list with all the information but not sure how to interpret what is best for Pinkie. I'm sure it is somewhere in a post on this website, but I have so much to read about tx and protocol, I will never find it in time to help Pinkie.
She did respond favorably to the Vetsulin and the BG food in a short time, and she eats a little dry food(Free feed), but perhaps that is not in her best interest. Thanks for all the information and suggestions. Right now I am feeling a bit overwhelmed at all the information and need to have as much direction as possible from the people who have been doing this tx for a long time. Right now I have 22 cats and 13 dogs here: so you can imagine the time required to care for everyone, including a special needs spinal injury ShihTzu and now Pinkie's diabetes. And I am so far behind in grooming I think I'm drowning!
Thanks again for all the information. I am trying to wade through all the information as quickly as I can. :sad:
 
You have your hands full!

So just quick easy answers. Pick a food on Janet's chart that is between 8-10% carbs that your cat will eat and that you can afford. Stay away from fish except maybe once a week.

Lantus, Levemir and PZI are the most popular insulins on this site. Go to the Insulin Support group forums for those insulins. Read through the stickies to get an idea about how easy the insulin is to use/dose. Read through some of the posts to see how people are doing with the insulin/what problems or successes they are having.

Nope, take away the dry food. Even a few kibbles can raise bg levels.

PS I kinda like the idea of the candle symbolizing hope! I hope it does for you.
 
Judy and Pinkie said:
Another learning experience, Victoria. I have no clue what all these icons means, and my mistake on the candle was that it was representative of a light of hope. WIll avoid icons in the future.
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No problem... Really, I like your interpretation. For a loss or otherwise, that's nice. :smile:

I can't find the draft, but will rewrite it later this evening when I'm finished with the rescue chores here.
Since Vetsulin doesn't seem to be recommended here for cats, I would like to know which insulin is used the most by the members and where it can be purchased. If it requires a Rx, I can get that from my holisitic vet when I see her next week.
Click to expand...

Lantus and Levemir seem to work well and are popular. If I had to treat a diabetic cat right now and had to start on an insulin, I'd choose either of those. They are similar, long lasting and overlapping. You do best to stick to a 12/12 schedule with either. And should be home testing to be able to determine the right dose.



Also am not sure what I need to look for when I read the labels for the canned food(Friskies and Fancy Feast): I have looked at Janet's canned food list with all the information but not sure how to interpret what is best for Pinkie. I'm sure it is somewhere in a post on this website, but I have so much to read about tx and protocol, I will never find it in time to help Pinkie.
Click to expand...

The foods that are under 10% carbs are the best for diabetics. Limit the fish (I don't feed any) as some cats become addicted to them and it's best to save those flavours for when the cat goes off their regular food - which most cats do at some point for some reason. I stay away from beef because Sundance was allergic... Though she's gone and I'm not sure if Barclay is allergic, I just stay away from it. I feed venison/bison for red meats and chicken for white meats.


She did respond favorably to the Vetsulin and the BG food in a short time, and she eats a little dry food(Free feed), but perhaps that is not in her best interest.
Click to expand...

She should not get any dry... it's simply bad for them - as diabetics and as cats. You can read about that on Dr. Lisa's site - the link is in my signature. I'm not sure how you can keep her from eating the dry if you leave it out for the other 21 cats :o though. ;-)


Thanks for all the information and suggestions. Right now I am feeling a bit overwhelmed at all the information and need to have as much direction as possible from the people who have been doing this tx for a long time. Right now I have 22 cats and 13 dogs here: so you can imagine the time required to care for everyone, including a special needs spinal injury ShihTzu and now Pinkie's diabetes. And I am so far behind in grooming I think I'm drowning!
Thanks again for all the information. I am trying to wade through all the information as quickly as I can. :sad:
Click to expand...

Take your time... you can compartmentalise it by looking at the key ingredients to regulation/remission:

.....Low carb wet food only

.....Home testing

.....Low starting dose of insulin with increases determined by nadirs and curves.

And treat yourself too... You clearly have a lot of energy for your pets... but wow! You need time for you too.
 
You can save a draft of a post. To find it, go to your user control panel, the "overview" tab, and the "manage drafts" choice.
 
Thanks so much, Victoria. That helps me a lot. I have a ton of donated Friskies and Fancy Feast that I was afraid to give her. Now I will check the list, and give her what is healthy for her. And I will take away the dry food from her. She stays on her bed much of the time or is lying in a window, so she doesn't get up high where I feed the other kitties (have to put it up high because of the canine critters here! ;-) Am going to print off that list now, so I can carry it with me.
Thanks, Venita for the heads up about the drafts, and to Sue for the information on insulin. We do appreciate any information that will help Pinkie! confused_cat
 
Woohooo! Venita, you rock! Here is the one I "lost"

Thank you all for your responses to my posting. I just received the free meter today and will be learning a lot in the next day or so. I am trying to digest so much information, and know I have much to learn about Pinkie and her illness. She eats both dry and wet food, and I still find she is drinking lots of water and urinating a lot. Her stools remain normal, and she has put on some weight. Her coat is in much better shape and we will go on Monday for another blood test to see where she is after two weeks. My vet did tell me of the Vetsulin issue, but she also said that she had no one who had problems with it. She did switch everyone else, but we would try Pinkie on it to see if she responded favorably. From this board, I think I should be using a different form of insulin just to be safe.
The syringes she gave me are U-40 for use with Vetsulin(by intervet). I did get some Wellness canned food, and will check into that now that I know just BG is not what she should be on. BG (before grains). Pinkie is not on the steroid drops at all now: no stuffy nose or cold. Only used them about 3 times when she first came to get her to eat and open up her nose(and taste buds). I don't know why Dr. LeBeau started her at 2 units bid: what does everyone else use?
Even thought her BG went down to 118, she still drinks too much water: perhaps because she needs more wet food and less or no dry? I will definitely be buying the larger cans from now on. The low or no grains foods are definitely pricey in WY and CO. Don't know if they are elsewhere or not. I will check out the list from Janet re: Friskies and Fancy Feast too.
I am extremely nervous about the testing and adjusting the insulin, so will be doing lots of reading and posting to be sure I'm doing it correctly. Again, thank you all for being here, and Victoria, for putting my post where it should be. Now if I can just find it when I get back on here.
 
I am just coming up with all kinds of questions tonight. Pinkie has a very round abdomen and even with the insulin, it remains round like a ball. It is not so noticeable because she is retaining fluids with the insulin and the decrease in glucose, but it is still rounder than normal. My vet suggested she might also have cancer, but since she is gaining weight with the insulin that doesn't seem like it is what is going on with her. Has anyone else's kitty had the round tummy issue? And if so, what causes it and will is correct itself with time and treatment?
 
I see posts with U40 and U100 syringes: which one should I be using? The vet gave me U40 for use with Vetsulin. The are 1 cc 28 GA and 1/2" length.
If I order one of the "L's", what is best? Also, is there something on the message board to explain 1. dosage depending on glucose reading? and 2. the video on how to take a blood sample from Pinkie. 3. Should I be getting different insulin, since the Vetsulin has the white residue in the bottom of the vial? 4. How many "pens" do you order at one time from Hocks.com? Thanks for any help you can give us!
 
Pinkie and I want to thank you for all the information and the time it took to post it for us. Her glucose today was 117, so the Vetsulin is working for her. But now we are dealing with another issue, for Pinkie has renal cancer and a huge mass in her L kidney. We confirmed this today with x-rays and other tests, and all of her internal organs are being pushed down because of it. While her bloodwork is still normal, the reason that she is not gaining as she should with the glucose lowered is because of the tumor. I spent over an hour with each vet this afternoon, and with their agreement, I have asked that we continue the Vetsulin, not because it is the best, but because it is working for her. She is not in pain, but then I had no pain with my own renal cancer either, so we will continue the insulin bid, and feed the low carbs food, but will allow her some of the dry crunchies she loves so much (the no grain kind). I will monitor her closely and I believe she will let me know when it is time to allow her to cross. I will make arrangements when Pinkie has gone home to donate the supplies you sent to me back to the Supply Closet. And we will do bloodwork every two weeks for both the glucose and the cancer (eventually the kidneys will begin to fail). I want to be sure she does not experience pain and discomfort, and for now, she is calm, purring and happy.
She is back at the Cat House for she hates being in the house with the dogs. I had kept her at the house so I could monitor her regularly, but now that we know about the cancer, I just want her to be happy and she is much happier up there with other cats and no dogs!
You all have done so much for so many. I am thankful to know you are here for people like me who have so many questions and no real answers. Blessings from The Healing Journey in Pine Bluffs, WY Judy and Pinkie
 
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