Newcomer Introduction & Seeking Advice/Asking 100 Questions.

Status
Not open for further replies.
LilTurkey

LilTurkey

Member Since 2020
Hello, I'm Brittany, I moved to a new state and recently found a new vet. I usually only go when they need their vaccines updated or are unwell of course, I had last taken them 3 years ago.
My cat Thomas J. started having a weird scabby growth on his ear so I took him in. There was a cancer scare but after trying some medication it was going away and she said it most likely was just solar dermatitis but we'll be monitoring it. They got his lab work done and they said it all looked good but his glucose levels which were a little high but thought it was due to stress.
I gathered a urine sample for them and they called the next day saying it was +3, as in there was over 1000- 1300 ml/dl in his urine and he has to be started on insulin.
He also has a history of UTIs and kidney stones but he'd been doing well for the last 4 years being on a urinary tract health food. I've tried switching to wet food in the past and he would refuse but the last year or so he's been stealing my other cat's wet food so I'm now having success transitioning him.
I've struggled with him losing weight because he doesn't really like toys much, refusing to move and play. I've gotten him to lose a little over 2 lbs the last 6 months when I reduced his dry food and he now weighs 18 lbs.
From a few people I've been in contact with that also have diabetic cats and have treated many diabetic cats are pretty much saying that Lantus is best, ProZinc doesn't last as long, and VetSulin doesn't give good results.
He hasn't started his insulin therapy yet. The problem is that my vet is prescribing VetSulin and I'm requesting a Lantus prescription which they don't even have in house. They do have it on their online store though. They also have ProZinc but I feel like a longer lasting insulin would be best.
I haven't gotten to speak with my vet personally yet but the vet technician was adamant that she'd only prescribe me VetSulin. I asked to leave her a note about it but she said it would be best to schedule an appointment and have the discussion. Perfect, I need to have a check up on his ear anyway.
So, I'm going in Monday with him but I'm worried they'll ignore my request for the prescription and continue pressing the VetSulin. They have seemed great the last few visits but I feel like I may have to switch vets now.
Any advice?
 
Last edited:
Welcome to FDMB!

My first thought is that diabetes isn't typically diagnosed based on a urine test. The results are influenced by what your cat may have eaten within the last few hours. Please ask your vet to run a fructosamine test when you go in on Monday. This is a blood test that is very similar to a hemoglobin A1c that's is done for humans and gives an average of blood glucose over a period of several weeks. This will tell you definitively if your cat is diabetic versus having food or a treat spiking numbers.

Most vets do not have Lantus in house. It's a human insulin and available at a pharmacy. We encourage people to get the prescription from your vet and order from Canada. The cost is a fraction of what you'd pay in the US. Here's information on ordering from Canada.

Sigh.... You've done your homework. It's shame the vet tech hasn't. There are veterinary publications that support the use of Lantus and Prozinc for the treatment of diabetic cats. The American Animal Hospital Assn has published guidelines since 2016 that endorse the use of these two forms of insulin. This is a link to the 2018 guidelines from the AAHA.You might want to print this out and bring it with you to the vet's office. This article on which insulin in cats flat out cites the AAHA guidelines and states that Vetsulin is not recommended. FWIW, Vetsulin is also called Caninsulin outside of the US. As the name implies, it was developed for dogs. Cats are not little dogs. Their metabolism is faster and Vetsulin has less duration than Lantus or Prozinc.

I would suggest getting your cat on a low carbohydrate, canned food diet ASAP. Since you've not started insulin, the switch may tell you if it's food that's causing blood glucose numbers to be elevated. If you're able to start home testing, that would be great! You want canned food that is less than 10% carbohydrate. Many people here feed their cats Fancy Feast -- the Classic variety with is a low carb, pate style food. This is a link to a food chart where you can see the variety of canned food options that are below 10% carb.

Please let us know if you have more questions. We're happy to help!
 
Hello Brittany! Sienne and Gabby has already given you the best advice. I just stopped in to say that you rock for doing your own research and being so proactive about your furbaby's treatment. It can all be overwhelming at first, but the more knowledge you have, the better you will feel about everything. When you see your vet, be strong about wanting a better insulin. If they are stubborn, find a vet that will work with you. It's clear that Thomas J is in very good hands and he'll have a better chance at remission with you looking out for him.
 
Was tresaderm started before or after the vet diagnosed diabetes?

Is Thomas J. still on it? (it looks like he is based on your signature.)

Tresaderm has a steroid component (dexamethasone) and steroids can elevate blood glucose (BG) in some cats. So it’s possible that the tresaderm could be contributing as well. Some cats it doesn’t seem to affect, but we’ve had multiple instances on the board where owners have seen noticeable BG elevations with its use.

Often steroid-induced diabetics return to normal BG ranges after the steroids are stopped, although some do require a course of insulin. It’s especially important to home test and monitor BG in those cases as insulin requirements can change rapidly when steroids cease.

I too vote for the fructosamine.

Welcome to the board!
 
Why was Thomas J prescribed the Tresaderm? I havd used it in the past but it spiked BG by 200 or so points. If it is used for ears. there are meds with a less potent steroid if anti-inflammatory relief is needed. Otherwise there are meds that work for bacterial or fungal/yeast that do not contain steroids.
 
Sienne and Gabby (GA) said:
Welcome to FDMB!

My first thought is that diabetes isn't typically diagnosed based on a urine test. The results are influenced by what your cat may have eaten within the last few hours. Please ask your vet to run a fructosamine test when you go in on Monday. This is a blood test that is very similar to a hemoglobin A1c that's is done for humans and gives an average of blood glucose over a period of several weeks. This will tell you definitively if your cat is diabetic versus having food or a treat spiking numbers.

Most vets do not have Lantus in house. It's a human insulin and available at a pharmacy. We encourage people to get the prescription from your vet and order from Canada. The cost is a fraction of what you'd pay in the US. Here's information on ordering from Canada.

Sigh.... You've done your homework. It's shame the vet tech hasn't. There are veterinary publications that support the use of Lantus and Prozinc for the treatment of diabetic cats. The American Animal Hospital Assn has published guidelines since 2016 that endorse the use of these two forms of insulin. This is a link to the 2018 guidelines from the AAHA.You might want to print this out and bring it with you to the vet's office. This article on which insulin in cats flat out cites the AAHA guidelines and states that Vetsulin is not recommended. FWIW, Vetsulin is also called Caninsulin outside of the US. As the name implies, it was developed for dogs. Cats are not little dogs. Their metabolism is faster and Vetsulin has less duration than Lantus or Prozinc.

I would suggest getting your cat on a low carbohydrate, canned food diet ASAP. Since you've not started insulin, the switch may tell you if it's food that's causing blood glucose numbers to be elevated. If you're able to start home testing, that would be great! You want canned food that is less than 10% carbohydrate. Many people here feed their cats Fancy Feast -- the Classic variety with is a low carb, pate style food. This is a link to a food chart where you can see the variety of canned food options that are below 10% carb.

Please let us know if you have more questions. We're happy to help!
Click to expand...

I agree with all that you're saying. I didn't know about this test but I'll definitely be asking for one. I already switched to the wet cat food my other cat is on which is low carb, Friskies classic Paté, but I already have plans on getting some Fancy Feast since the ingredients are a bit better and everyone recommends it. Also, I should mention that I already started home testing because I wanted to see the numbers myself. They are still in the high 200s to early 300s.
 
JL and Chip said:
Was tresaderm started before or after the vet diagnosed diabetes?

Is Thomas J. still on it? (it looks like he is based on your signature.)

Tresaderm has a steroid component (dexamethasone) and steroids can elevate blood glucose (BG) in some cats. So it’s possible that the tresaderm could be contributing as well. Some cats it doesn’t seem to affect, but we’ve had multiple instances on the board where owners have seen noticeable BG elevations with its use.

Often steroid-induced diabetics return to normal BG ranges after the steroids are stopped, although some do require a course of insulin. It’s especially important to home test and monitor BG in those cases as insulin requirements can change rapidly when steroids cease.

I too vote for the fructosamine.

Welcome to the board!
Click to expand...
It was started before his diagnosis for his supposed solar dermatitis on his right ear. I also researched it and found that it basically contains steroids but didn't want to discontinue use if it might cause a flare up. I think I will stop it since it hasn't been improving his ear condition anymore anyway.
 
Larry and Kitties said:
Why was Thomas J prescribed the Tresaderm? I havd used it in the past but it spiked BG by 200 or so points. If it is used for ears. there are meds with a less potent steroid if anti-inflammatory relief is needed. Otherwise there are meds that work for bacterial or fungal/yeast that do not contain steroids.
Click to expand...
For treatment of the solar dermatitis on his right ear. I also suspected it of being a contributing factor to his high levels. I'm open to hearing other treatment options for his ear as well.
 
His appointment has to be rescheduled due to a surgery they have that morning but I will be calling and requesting the fructosamine test.
 
The one important item missing from your signature is the insulin you are using (if any). Maybe a note to say something like "No insulin yet". Since you haven't started insulin.

Besides the AAHA Diabetes Management Guidelines Sienne and Gabby (GA) linked you to, there is also the (2015) ISFM Consensus Guidelines on the Practical Management of Diabetes Mellitus in Cats

And a few years ago, 7 actually, Journal of Small Animal Practice devoted a full issue to treating Feline Diabetes. A possible opportunity to educate your vet, vet tech and vet clinic on more recent recommendations of better insulins for CATS. I don't know if this journal is available to the public. Sources I found require you to purchase even the PDF version. It was Volume 43, Issue 2 for the year 2013. Your vet my subscribe.

Merck Veterinary Manuel is used by many vets. ( Disclosure : Merck manufacturers Vetsulin so there may be a conflict of interest there.) Direct quote I found from the Merck website when I asked. "What is the best insulin for cats?"

"In newly diagnosed cats, insulin glargine is the insulin of choice. Glargine is a long-acting basal insulin. Used in conjunction with high-protein, low-carbohydrate diets, it is associated with remission of diabetes and discontinuation of insulin therapy in 80%–90% of cases within the first 3–4 mo of treatment." Bold text is not mine. Quote was exactly what you see here.

Source for that is in this link. https://www.merckvetmanual.com/endocrine-system/the-pancreas/diabetes-mellitus-in-dogs-and-cats

Hope those sources of information may convince or educate your vet on the best and most current treatments of Feline Diabetes in cats.

"The best defense is a good offense." as the saying goes. Be prepared to state your points for a different insulin when you meet with your vet office on Monday.

They may be unfamiliar with other insulins and quite reluctant to prescribe other insulins because of their inexperience. Kind of a catch22 situation. You are the advocate for your cat and need to decide what would work best for you and your cat.

Good luck! Hang in there. "Knowledge is power."
 
Deb & Wink said:
The one important item missing from your signature is the insulin you are using (if any). Maybe a note to say something like "No insulin yet". Since you haven't started insulin.

Besides the AAHA Diabetes Management Guidelines Sienne and Gabby (GA) linked you to, there is also the (2015) ISFM Consensus Guidelines on the Practical Management of Diabetes Mellitus in Cats

And a few years ago, 7 actually, Journal of Small Animal Practice devoted a full issue to treating Feline Diabetes. A possible opportunity to educate your vet, vet tech and vet clinic on more recent recommendations of better insulins for CATS. I don't know if this journal is available to the public. Sources I found require you to purchase even the PDF version. It was Volume 43, Issue 2 for the year 2013. Your vet my subscribe.

Merck Veterinary Manuel is used by many vets. ( Disclosure : Merck manufacturers Vetsulin so there may be a conflict of interest there.) Direct quote I found from the Merck website when I asked. "What is the best insulin for cats?"

"In newly diagnosed cats, insulin glargine is the insulin of choice. Glargine is a long-acting basal insulin. Used in conjunction with high-protein, low-carbohydrate diets, it is associated with remission of diabetes and discontinuation of insulin therapy in 80%–90% of cases within the first 3–4 mo of treatment." Bold text is not mine. Quote was exactly what you see here.

Source for that is in this link. https://www.merckvetmanual.com/endocrine-system/the-pancreas/diabetes-mellitus-in-dogs-and-cats

Hope those sources of information may convince or educate your vet on the best and most current treatments of Feline Diabetes in cats.

"The best defense is a good offense." as the saying goes. Be prepared to state your points for a different insulin when you meet with your vet office on Monday.

They may be unfamiliar with other insulins and quite reluctant to prescribe other insulins because of their inexperience. Kind of a catch22 situation. You are the advocate for your cat and need to decide what would work best for you and your cat.

Good luck! Hang in there. "Knowledge is power."
Click to expand...
I updated my Signature. Thank you for all the information, I'll be reading it and printing them out for my vet.
 
Hope you can convince your vet to prescribe the lantus. Hope those links help you to 'make your case' as to why Lantus is a better insulin for cats than Vetsulin.

p.s. Thanks for the signature update. Know you haven't started insulin yet, but seeing that info 'at a glance' helps us to help you quicker. When you do start insulin, update signature again. It will 'attach' that revised info to all your posts. Automatically.
 
Let me clarify something. I was not recommending that this member get Vetsulin for their cat.

I was providing additional resources for Brittany to read for some of the research that is available to vets. She can read it, and understand why Lantus is the better insulin for a cat. She can print it and either provide hard copy to her vet clinic or email it to them.

We know that vets can not keep up to date with all available research for every disease they treat for cats and dogs. Let alone try to keep up if they also have a practice that provides vet care to livestock or 'exotic' pets such as guinea pigs, rabbits, birds, snakes and other reptiles. Continuing education takes time and vets are already overburdened and burnt out in many instances.

The 'conflict of interest' I mentioned around Merck being the manufacturer of Vetsulin was because if you look up their website and read about Vetsulin, https://www.merck-animal-health-usa.com/vetsulin it looks like they are saying it's good for cats. Then they go on to say in the Merck Veterinary Manual that Lantus should be the insulin of first choice for cats. That is where the conflict of interest lies. Along with the sales reps pushing their products to vets. It may be the "First" insulin approved for cats by the FDA, but not the most recent approval of an insulin for cats.

Lots of vets prescribe many medications "off label" as do all vets that write prescriptions for Lantus and Levimer. Plus many, many other drugs for pets are prescribed without that FDA approval. "Off label" does not mean it's not a good product for cats or a bad product for cats. It may simply mean that the manufacturer has not gone through all the veterinary trials to "prove to the FDA" that their product works for animals.

Merck has sales reps, just as all the big pharmaceutical companies do for human medicine. Those sales reps for human medicine market to hospitals, pharmacy benefit managers, health insurance companies and to doctors practices. Free samples, trips to conferences, bonuses if so much of a medicine or medical device is prescribed or used by someone.

It's no different in the veterinary field. The more vets and vet clinics you convince to buy products from the company you represent, the bigger the commissions the sales reps earn. A major part of a sales reps income is from those commissions. Big incentive for the sales person to "Push" their specific companies products.

It wasn't any different in the computer industry where I worked for many years. Not as a sales rep, but as the person working for the company that came in after the sale, after the fact, independent from the company that had sold the software in the first place. We were stuck telling companies that had bought the software product, that the version they purchased did NOT have the features to run their HRMS systems they thought they were getting. In essence, the sales reps for the computer software company had 'lied, falsified, swindled' the purchasing company to "buy their product" because it was going to do such and such and it could not. The next release, available in 1 to 2 years (if it was released on time, which rarely happened) might do what the hospital or town government or utility company needed to have it do. But they had already purchased the old version of the HRMS system and signed the sales contract and they were 'stuck'. Trying to modify the product they bought to meet their needs was going to be a lot of work and EXPENSIVE. You get into big trouble if you can't pay your employees correctly and on time.

Sorry for the long digression here. Wanted to give a better explanation of what I said and my thoughts about the whole "sales reps push" to vets. Not only with insulin, but with other medications and with those "Veterinary Diet's" sold at vet offices. But that is a whole 'nother ball of wax and don't want to get into that here and now.
 
My personal experience to add is that Mimi was started on Vetsulin for the same reason your vet used, and my vet “saw good results with cats on Vetsulin”
And after only a short month went DKA (diabetic Ketoacidosis- not saying your baby will, just saying) and the first thing the emergency vet mentioned was “I never start cats on Vetsulin- that was designed more for dogs”
That vet also told me to shoot her in the flank and side of the stomach not the scruff because she was already developing a cyst from overshooting the same spot (it’s honestly so easy to shoot the same spot even though some vet-made YouTube videos will tell you to “rotate” in a clock manner to avoid that)

anyhoo, you’ve come to right place.
This page has SAVED my cat, and I’m not even worried about her going DKA because I know how to prevent it now as much as I can.
The vet told me to feed only twice a day- that’s wrong
The vet also told me the feed her a prescription diet.. please trust me when I tell you that is the biggest bunch of BS marketing. Dr Lisa Pierson is catinfo.org has a really good explanation on why it’s ridiculous.
 
Deb & Wink said:
Let me clarify something. I was not recommending that this member get Vetsulin for their cat.

I was providing additional resources for Brittany to read for some of the research that is available to vets. She can read it, and understand why Lantus is the better insulin for a cat. She can print it and either provide hard copy to her vet clinic or email it to them.

We know that vets can not keep up to date with all available research for every disease they treat for cats and dogs. Let alone try to keep up if they also have a practice that provides vet care to livestock or 'exotic' pets such as guinea pigs, rabbits, birds, snakes and other reptiles. Continuing education takes time and vets are already overburdened and burnt out in many instances.

The 'conflict of interest' I mentioned around Merck being the manufacturer of Vetsulin was because if you look up their website and read about Vetsulin, https://www.merck-animal-health-usa.com/vetsulin it looks like they are saying it's good for cats. Then they go on to say in the Merck Veterinary Manual that Lantus should be the insulin of first choice for cats. That is where the conflict of interest lies. Along with the sales reps pushing their products to vets. It may be the "First" insulin approved for cats by the FDA, but not the most recent approval of an insulin for cats.

Lots of vets prescribe many medications "off label" as do all vets that write prescriptions for Lantus and Levimer. Plus many, many other drugs for pets are prescribed without that FDA approval. "Off label" does not mean it's not a good product for cats or a bad product for cats. It may simply mean that the manufacturer has not gone through all the veterinary trials to "prove to the FDA" that their product works for animals.

Merck has sales reps, just as all the big pharmaceutical companies do for human medicine. Those sales reps for human medicine market to hospitals, pharmacy benefit managers, health insurance companies and to doctors practices. Free samples, trips to conferences, bonuses if so much of a medicine or medical device is prescribed or used by someone.

It's no different in the veterinary field. The more vets and vet clinics you convince to buy products from the company you represent, the bigger the commissions the sales reps earn. A major part of a sales reps income is from those commissions. Big incentive for the sales person to "Push" their specific companies products.

It wasn't any different in the computer industry where I worked for many years. Not as a sales rep, but as the person working for the company that came in after the sale, after the fact, independent from the company that had sold the software in the first place. We were stuck telling companies that had bought the software product, that the version they purchased did NOT have the features to run their HRMS systems they thought they were getting. In essence, the sales reps for the computer software company had 'lied, falsified, swindled' the purchasing company to "buy their product" because it was going to do such and such and it could not. The next release, available in 1 to 2 years (if it was released on time, which rarely happened) might do what the hospital or town government or utility company needed to have it do. But they had already purchased the old version of the HRMS system and signed the sales contract and they were 'stuck'. Trying to modify the product they bought to meet their needs was going to be a lot of work and EXPENSIVE. You get into big trouble if you can't pay your employees correctly and on time.

Sorry for the long digression here. Wanted to give a better explanation of what I said and my thoughts about the whole "sales reps push" to vets. Not only with insulin, but with other medications and with those "Veterinary Diet's" sold at vet offices. But that is a whole 'nother ball of wax and don't want to get into that here and now.
Click to expand...
I'm not sure about others but I understood what you were saying. I agree that a lot of veterinarians are misinformed about prescription pet foods believing that they're best to treat your pets while doing the opposite of that. Especially when they're being sponsored by said brands. Not all vets have time to stay up to date on different treatments and I can understand that. As well as not feeling comfortable prescribing something that they may not have worked with before. I was using a prescription dry cat food and knew it wasn't a great option for my cat but he used to refuse wet food and I didn't have many options. The better quality dry foods were even more expensive and I think that's why myself as well as others I'm sure just stuck to what was given by the vet. I'm becoming more informed on proper cat nutrition with each day I'm here and all the research I've been doing myself. Perhaps his diagnosis was a blessing in disguise.
 
LilTurkey said:
I'm not sure about others but I understood what you were saying. I agree that a lot of veterinarians are misinformed about prescription pet foods believing that they're best to treat your pets while doing the opposite of that. Especially when they're being sponsored by said brands. Not all vets have time to stay up to date on different treatments and I can understand that. As well as not feeling comfortable prescribing something that they may not have worked with before. I was using a prescription dry cat food and knew it wasn't a great option for my cat but he used to refuse wet food and I didn't have many options. The better quality dry foods were even more expensive and I think that's why myself as well as others I'm sure just stuck to what was given by the vet. I'm becoming more informed on proper cat nutrition with each day I'm here and all the research I've been doing myself. Perhaps his diagnosis was a blessing in disguise.
Click to expand...
Sorry I forgot I mentioned this but here’s a link
Www.catinfo.org
 
Here's my "100" questions.​
  • I wanted to ask what's the best quality, low carb/high protein, wet cat food you would recommend? I'm going to buy some Fancy Feast but I was thinking about buying a small box of something like Tiki Cat or Weruva to see if my cats would like it. Which brands would you suggest?
    • Is one 5.5 oz can a day a good amount to feed my cat, it's only 170-180 calories, my brother thinks it's too much. From what I've read and calculated it seems good.
      • He's trying to base it off the fact Thomas J. used to eat 1/2 cup of dry food a day but I don't think that adds up the same way due to their nutritional differences.
    • Also, what brand of high carb wet foods would you recommend I put in my hypo toolbox?
  • What meter would you say works the best and also cost efficient? I'm currently using my brother's (he's a type 2 diabetic) old meter, OneTouch Verio, which has maybe 50 or so test strips left and they're expensive to replace. Looking for a replacement, it's also nice to have a back up too.
  • My cat has a history of kidney health problems and I was wondering what you would recommend me use to test for ketones?
    • Since I started feeding wet food my cat isn't drinking much and isn't peeing a lot. Is this good or bad? I know they usually decrease because of the high moisture content in the food but that much seems odd to me.
    • He's been peeing lakes for years though and the last few months, especially since starting his medication for his ear, tresaderm and veraflox, his drinking and urine has greatly increased. I believe these are indicators of diabetes but one does contain steroids in it.
    • He doesn't seem to be in pain and I don't notice anything bad in his urine or fecal matter. Perhaps just my anxiety?
  • A few months back he started limping, couldn't tell which leg, but it went away mostly. Just comes and goes but it's very mild. His vet said she didn't notice anything abnormal when she examined him. I'm thinking perhaps this could've been another indicator of diabetes or maybe just arthritis. He is 12 years old, any supplement recommendations?
My apologies for all the questions. I have done a lot of research myself and read most of the health links/faqs here but I'm very indecisive since I'm a newbie and frankly overwhelmed. I just want to give the best care for my little turkey, Thomas J.

Any recommendations are welcomed, thank you.​
 
Last edited:
Update:​

Rescheduled my vet appointment to Wednesday morning due to them having a surgery this morning. The receptionist made a note of my fructosamine test request. I'm seeing the other vet though, I believe they're the one who prescribed the vetsulin. I usually see Dr.B but this time it's Dr.F who I've never met before. Wish me luck.

Hope everyone has a great week, thanks for all the help!:bighug:​
 
Hi Brittany, welcome, I feed my cat Fancy Feast Classics either chicken or beef,
If you go to the
Feline Health ( Main Forum you will see Dr Pierson's food chart
It will give you names of pet foods, their carb content, protein etc
For the higher carbs I use Fancy Feast Gravy Lovers
I use 15 % for medium carbs and 20 % for higher carbs
You can look and decide what foods you want.
Also have some honey on hand
I think you are right when it comes to the calories. Tyler is also a lazy cat so I know what
you mean when it comes to losing weight.
He used to weigh 23 lbs, then 18 lbs when diagnosed, Then gained weight back ,got up to 21 lbs. He now weighs 19 lbs. He still needs to lose weight. He is a big cat but my vet would like to see him around 16 lbs at least. He doesn't play so he's not burning calories.
He's just lazy. The only time he runs is when he's chasing his brother .
I give him 2 cans of the 3 ounce Fancy Feast Classics. That's about 199 calories.
So I think you are right. Most of us feed our cats a couple times a day, not twice a day like most vets suggest. Don't feed any food 2 hours before pre shots



As for the meter most of us use the human meter Relion Prime, it's 9 dollars at Walmart and you can get the strips for 17.88 for 100 strips
I used to use a pet meter, took expensive, I love this Relion Prime meter
I hope this helps and best of luck at the vets
 
Last edited:
Diane Tyler's Mom said:
Hi Brittany, welcome, I feed my cat Fancy Feast Classics either chicken or beef,
If you go to the
Feline Health ( Main Forum you will see Dr Pierson's food chart
It will give you names of pet foods, their carb content, protein etc
For the higher carbs I use Fancy Feast Gravy Lovers
I use 15 % for medium cab and 20 % for higher carbs
You can look and decide what foods you want.
Also have some honey on hand

As for the meter most of us use the human meter Relion Prime, it's 9 dollars at Walmart and you can get the strips for 17.88 for 100 strips
I used to use a pet meter, took expensive, I love this Relion Prime metermeter
I hope this helps and best of luck at the vets
Click to expand...
Thank you for the information. I plan on buying Fancy Feast myself. I've looked at her chart and I'm most interested in the Tiki Cat and Weruva Brands. My cats are picky eaters however and may not like the textures. Perhaps I'll try some in the future and let you guys know what they think of it. Curious to know if anyone has tried these brands before. Perhaps I'll search through the forums.
I'll check that meter out.
 
LilTurkey said:
Thank you for the information. I plan on buying Fancy Feast myself. I've looked at her chart and I'm most interested in the Tiki Cat and Weruva Brands. My cats are picky eaters however and may not like the textures. Perhaps I'll try some in the future and let you guys know what they think of it. Curious to know if anyone has tried these brands before. Perhaps I'll search through the forums.
I'll check that meter out.
Click to expand...
You're welcome, I do see other members feed their cats Tiki and Weruva.
You can start a separate post if you want and title it
? Anyone feed Tiki or Weruva
 
LilTurkey said:
Thank you for the information. I plan on buying Fancy Feast myself. I've looked at her chart and I'm most interested in the Tiki Cat and Weruva Brands. My cats are picky eaters however and may not like the textures. Perhaps I'll try some in the future and let you guys know what they think of it. Curious to know if anyone has tried these brands before. Perhaps I'll search through the forums.
I'll check that meter out.
Click to expand...
I fed my cat both the tiki cat and Weruva brands. She liked the tiki cat at first, but then she stopped liking it, which may or may not have been related to dental issues (but she is intolerant to chicken now, so the point is moot anyway :rolleyes:) She also liked the Weruva bff varieties I fed, but I ended up switching because I was concerned about the fact that all of them included some form of tuna. Didn’t get a chance to try any of the other lines before the food intolerance issues, but they seem like good choices based on the ingredients. What kind of kidney issues does your cat have? Do they need a food with less phosphorus?
 
Sarah&Soph said:
I fed my cat both the tiki cat and Weruva brands. She liked the tiki cat at first, but then she stopped liking it, which may or may not have been related to dental issues (but she is intolerant to chicken now, so the point is moot anyway :rolleyes:) She also liked the Weruva bff varieties I fed, but I ended up switching because I was concerned about the fact that all of them included some form of tuna. Didn’t get a chance to try any of the other lines before the food intolerance issues, but they seem like good choices based on the ingredients. What kind of kidney issues does your cat have? Do they need a food with less phosphorus?
Click to expand...
He had UTI's and kidney stones about 4 years back. They had him eat urinary tract health food but obviously those aren't really considered good for cats. I haven't noticed any issues as of late thankfully as he's gotten good at drinking enough water now. I'm not able to test for ketones at the moment but I will be in the future. Perhaps less phosphorus is a good idea.
 
LilTurkey said:
He had UTI's and kidney stones about 4 years back. They had him eat urinary tract health food but obviously those aren't really considered good for cats. I haven't noticed any issues as of late thankfully as he's gotten good at drinking enough water now. I'm not able to test for ketones at the moment but I will be in the future. Perhaps less phosphorus is a good idea.
Click to expand...
I believe low P is generally recommended for kidney disease, for UTIs and kidney stones I think more water is what’s recommended. Dr. Lisa Pierson who made the food chart has a lot of good info on her website about kidney health, if you haven’t already checked that out! The tiki cat does have a bit more broth than the fancy feast which would probably be good, but because it’s shredded it might be harder to mix water into it, depending on how picky about it your kitty is. For ketones, there are some blood meters that can check ketones if you didn’t already know about those and are having a hard time catching him in the box
 
Sarah&Soph said:
I believe low P is generally recommended for kidney disease, for UTIs and kidney stones I think more water is what’s recommended. Dr. Lisa Pierson who made the food chart has a lot of good info on her website about kidney health, if you haven’t already checked that out! The tiki cat does have a bit more broth than the fancy feast which would probably be good, but because it’s shredded it might be harder to mix water into it, depending on how picky about it your kitty is. For ketones, there are some blood meters that can check ketones if you didn’t already know about those and are having a hard time catching him in the box
Click to expand...
Yes, I was told to make sure he drank plenty of water. Thankfully he has a fountain that helps with that, I also mix water in with some of his wet cat food. I haven't fully read the section on kidney health, I'll have to finish reading. I did see some meters had that function, I'll have to look into them some more. Thank you.
 
The ketone test meters can be expensive. It's the cost of the strips that can be high. Some folks have a regular meter for most of the daily BG testing and then use the Ketone meters to test the blood for ketones if they have a "shy peeer."

From the Health Links/FAQS forum, look in the Index sticky at the top of that forum for more helpful info.
Blood Ketone Meters

Go slow, it's a lot to digest and we don't want you anymore stressed and overwhelmed than you are.

p.s. Deb, finder of lost souls and helping redirect them to the correct forum.
 
My cat has a history of kidney health problems and I was wondering what you would recommend me use to test for ketones?
  • Since I started feeding wet food my cat isn't drinking much and isn't peeing a lot. Is this good or bad? I know they usually decrease because of the high moisture content in the food but that much seems odd to me.
  • He's been peeing lakes for years though and the last few months, especially since starting his medication for his ear, tresaderm and veraflox, his drinking and urine has greatly increased. I believe these are indicators of diabetes but one does contain steroids in it.
  • He doesn't seem to be in pain and I don't notice anything bad in his urine or fecal matter. Perhaps just my anxiety?
Click to expand...
Kidney issues and ketones are separate issues. If you're able to stalk your cat to the litter box, urinary ketone test strips (Ketostix) are fine. Otherwise, a blood ketone meter is another option.

For a cat that has kidney issues, it can help to add water to your cat's canned food. Thirst and urination tend to decrease as a diabetic cat becomes better regulated. Excess thirst and urination are symptoms of diabetes so as blood glucose numbers decrease, so does thirst and urination. The steroid medication has likely contributed to higher BG numbers hence the greater urine output.
 
Sienne and Gabby (GA) said:
Kidney issues and ketones are separate issues. If you're able to stalk your cat to the litter box, urinary ketone test strips (Ketostix) are fine. Otherwise, a blood ketone meter is another option.

For a cat that has kidney issues, it can help to add water to your cat's canned food. Thirst and urination tend to decrease as a diabetic cat becomes better regulated. Excess thirst and urination are symptoms of diabetes so as blood glucose numbers decrease, so does thirst and urination. The steroid medication has likely contributed to higher BG numbers hence the greater urine output.
Click to expand...
I did stop using the medication since it was almost out and wasn't improving the condition of his ear anymore. I may test his blood again in a few days to see if it lowers any. Thank you for the information.
 
Deb & Wink said:
The ketone test meters can be expensive. It's the cost of the strips that can be high. Some folks have a regular meter for most of the daily BG testing and then use the Ketone meters to test the blood for ketones if they have a "shy peeer."

From the Health Links/FAQS forum, look in the Index sticky at the top of that forum for more helpful info.
Blood Ketone Meters

Go slow, it's a lot to digest and we don't want you anymore stressed and overwhelmed than you are.

p.s. Deb, finder of lost souls and helping redirect them to the correct forum.
Click to expand...
Thank you.
 
LilTurkey said:
Thank you for the information. I plan on buying Fancy Feast myself. I've looked at her chart and I'm most interested in the Tiki Cat and Weruva Brands. My cats are picky eaters however and may not like the textures. Perhaps I'll try some in the future and let you guys know what they think of it. Curious to know if anyone has tried these brands before. Perhaps I'll search through the forums.
I'll check that meter out.
Click to expand...
LilTurkey said:
Thank you for the information. I plan on buying Fancy Feast myself. I've looked at her chart and I'm most interested in the Tiki Cat and Weruva Brands. My cats are picky eaters however and may not like the textures. Perhaps I'll try some in the future and let you guys know what they think of it. Curious to know if anyone has tried these brands before. Perhaps I'll search through the forums.
I'll check that meter out.
Click to expand...
My Kit LOVED Tiki chicken for the 5 or so days I had her on it after diagnosis and before vet prescribed Glycobalance. I am now working on a plan to get her off Glyco and on to a low carb/ low Phosphorous FF or Tiki. Tiki has zero carb and from everything I've read there seems to be some disagreement about whether that is preferred or not. I would love to hear more from others about Tiki. It really does look and smell good enough to dive right in, even as a human! I did add some pumpkin to the Tiki.
 
JOJI and Kit said:
My Kit LOVED Tiki chicken for the 5 or so days I had her on it after diagnosis and before vet prescribed Glycobalance. I am now working on a plan to get her off Glyco and on to a low carb/ low Phosphorous FF or Tiki. Tiki has zero carb and from everything I've read there seems to be some disagreement about whether that is preferred or not. I would love to hear more from others about Tiki. It really does look and smell good enough to dive right in, even as a human! I did add some pumpkin to the Tiki.
Click to expand...
That’s a really good point about the zero carbs! Here’s a link to more info about that.

http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/feeding-lowest-zero-carb-vs-lower-carb-foods.144220/

Weruva has two kinds that I know of that are a similar style to tiki cat, chicken frick a zee and paw lickin chicken, that are both low phosphorus and low carb. But they’re listed as only 3% and 2% carbs, so it’s possible they’re also closer to 0% as well
 
ECID Every Cat is Different. What food works well in conjunction with the particular insulin you use for your cat varies.
ECID Every Carbohydrate requirement Is Different. (Excuse me, trying to get creative here with the ECID)

You'll need to experiment with foods for your cat, to see what works for your cat. It's that darn pesky ECID again.

ESID Every Situation is Different. One size does not fit all.

Here is an example where we are going to try a higher carb food.

Helping out the owner of a kitten that uses prozinc, over in the prozinc ISG. Member is from Spain, doesn't understand much English, we are using google translate back and forth to understand each other. Not perfect, but couldn't do it without that translation. Plus we have a member from Mexico that is helping out. This Spain member has a diabetic kitten, which is rare in the first place. I've only seen a handful of diabetic kittens on the message board in the last 7 years. Her kitten (9 months) old is really close to being a diet controlled diabetic. She was feeding a very low carb food, <2%. The BG readings are not quite low enough to be considered in remission, but trying to have her give a single drop of insulin is also very difficult to do.

So she has ordered some slightly higher carb kitten food from Germany (Zooplus) and she will be trying the new food soon.
 
So, I'm a little worried about Thomas J. Since I started feeding wet food he's been acting super lazy, a lot more lazy than usual. He usually plays with his his toy pom poms a little bit during the day and typically a lot during the night. He's not playing during the day at all and barely at night. He's been increasely inactive since he started the medications a month or so ago. He's already off them now, Sunday is when he stopped the Tresaderm. I wonder if it is just due to the steroids and how long it takes to leave his system. Maybe also the diet change may be affecting his body different since it's not used to it. I was worried and checked his bg last night, I gave his ear a couple days of break since his other ear isn't fully healed so I'm only able to use one for testing. It was 321 but it had only been a little over an hour since his last feeding, I was just testing to make sure it wasn't super high and through the roof. Maybe I'm just being a bit paranoid since he's newly diagnosed but his behavior seems different to me and even my brother noticed a change this past week as well.
His appointment is tomorrow and I'm a bit nervous, I hope this other vet is nice and will listen to my thoughts and ideas. I'm open to the ProZinc but would still prefer the Lantus, definitely no VetSulin though. I know some people have luck with it but I'd rather not chance it myself.
 
Do you have your list of questions written down? That way, when you meet with the vet, you won't forget them.

Ask any human diabetic. They feel horrible when their glucose is too high. Cat's too.
 
Deb & Wink said:
Do you have your list of questions written down? That way, when you meet with the vet, you won't forget them.

Ask any human diabetic. They feel horrible when their glucose is too high. Cat's too.
Click to expand...
Not too sure what questions I should ask other than why they don't want to prescribe Lantus and why they're recommending VetSulin, but I do have some answers ready if they ask why I don't want VetSulin and why I want Lantus. I've also printed out the articles and research papers on Lantus and highlighted the main points.
 
Hi there if Thomas J's ear is sore you can put Neosporin with Pain Relief Ointment on it. Make sure it's the Ointment and NOT the cream. Put a thin layer on it
Good luck tomorrow at the vets and trying to get the Lantus
 
Alrighty, so a lot to talk about but it's good news. Went to the vet appointment, met Dr. F, he was really nice and seemed to know a quite a bit. Thomas J. was actually super calm with him compared to how erratic he usually is with Dr. B and the vet techs. It could be that he's male, my old vets were as well and he was always on good behavior with them.
So, he was trying to prescribe the VetSulin but I told him some of my thoughts and he kind of understood what I was saying. I told him I'd prefer Lantus or ProZinc secondly because of their long duration and high remission rates. He said he'd have to look it all up to know for sure and I let him see some of my research. He actually forgot Lantus was glargine, he thought it was something else and then said he'd write a prescription for me to see if I could get it for cheaper since their store is super expensive, as well as the syringes. He was saying they don't work with many diabetic animals, usually just dogs with very, very few cats.
He also mentioned like a continuous glucose monitor like what humans have, where it measures the blood every 15 minutes, he said he hadn't used it himself but many of his colleagues have good experience with them. I said I'd do some research on it but was interested. Also, we were talking about testing and asked if we could bring in our meter to compare and see if it's a good option to measure his bg.
He was talking about regulating with a prescription diet with high fiber and in my head I was like, heck no. I told him I switched him to wet food already that it was low carbs and he's doing well with it. He said he thinks his ideal weight is about 13 lbs and that 200 calories and under like what I'm feeding him sounded good. I was concerned about his weight because he's lost nearly a pound the last week since switching and I was worried. He said with diabetic animals it's common for them to drop a lot in the beginning when switching foods. He was 17.6 lb last week, this week 16.8 lb.
We're going back on the Veraflox, the oral medication that has no steroids to see it that works better rather than the Tresaderm because he agreed it was probably causing higher bg.
We talked about the fructosamine test and he said he wouldn't do the test until he's on insulin so he can see all his levels and how it's working for him.
So, we went to our local pharmacy where my brother goes to check prices. They said for the vial of Lantus the lowest was $229.68 which isn't horrible compared to the $350 at the vet. Also, they said they had the generic Basaglar 300 unit pen for $72 but the prescription was for the 10 ml vial so we have to check with the vet first. She said it was cheaper at Walmart and to give them a call to check. Haven't figured out the price for the syringes but I'll figure it out soon.

So, basically, what are your thoughts on Basaglar?
 
Last edited:
Basaglar is a bio-similar to Lantus insulin. Similar to, but not the same as glargine/lantus. Don't know anything about it beyond that.

10 ml vial has 1000 units, but sometimes loses it's efficacy before you use it all up.
3 ml pen or 300 units, can usually use to the last drop

Roughly 2 months at 2U twice a day for the pens (2u may be more than you need to give)
Roughly 4 months at 2U twice a day if figure only can use half before you need to toss the vial

Calculate your per unit cost and what the difference would be if you had to throw out the 10ml vial after a couple of months.

Lantus also available in 3 ml minivial - Lantus Solostar pen. Use insulin syringe to withdraw the insulin. Need to do this so we can draw out those tiny doses our kitties need.

I'd go with a pen. Then when you need more, order from Mark's Marine Pharmacy in Canada. Lots of members here do that. Call first, because they may still have an order backup. https://www.facebook.com/canshipmeds/
Ordering Lantus, Basaglar, or Levemir from Canadian pharmacies

Maybe read this thread for a member recently asking about pen vs vial.

Switching from Novolin to Glargine; Do I shoot with the same amount of units as I did with Novolin?

https://www.drugs.com/medical-answers/difference-between-basaglar-lantus-3016716/
https://www.goodrx.com/blog/lantus-vs-basaglar-effectiveness-dosing-side-effects-cost/
 
LilTurkey said:
So, we went to our local pharmacy where my brother goes to check prices. They said for the vial of Lantus the lowest was $229.68 which isn't horrible compared to the $350 at the vet. Also, they said they had the generic Basaglar 300 unit pen for $72 but the prescription was for the 10 ml vial so we have to check with the vet first. She said it was cheaper at Walmart and to give them a call to check. Haven't figured out the price for the syringes but I'll figure it out soon.

So, basically, what are your thoughts on Basaglar?
Click to expand...
I believe that Chris used basaglar for her kitty :cat:

@Chris & China (GA)
 
I'll chime in with the caveat that I'm a total newbie myself, but Brittany reminds me of me, with 1000 questions and a great sense of urgency. I totally get it.

I would recommend sticking to your guns regarding the Lantus. Insist on it - your vet will listen. Start with the Lantus pen - it's usually less than $100 USD, and I've found it quite easy to use. I'm surprised your vet wouldn't test for fructosamine until *after* starting insulin... that seems backward to me.

Also... the first indication that something was wrong with my Edward was an inexplicable limp. It took visits to 2 vets before blood tests revealed high BG and fructosamine. The limp subsided on its own, although his rear legs still aren't as strong as they used to be, which is why I started him on Zobaline, which is a methylcobalamin B12 vitamin specifically formulated to help treat/reverse diabetic neuropathy in cats. You might consider adding it to Thomas J's food once a day.

Anyway, you have found the right place! Best of luck to you and Thomas J on your journey.
 
Alright, so the pharmacist called back and I asked her what the Lantus pen cost and guess what, turns out they're cheaper than the Basaglar. 1 Lantus pen was $69.45 and the Basaglar was $72. A 5 pack was $337 which I didn't have a prescription for anyway. So, I bought the 1 Lantus pen and $36.52 for his syringes. I only had to pay $106 altogether. I have a refill too so in 2- 3 month I can have it refilled and hopefully the price doesn't jump up too much. I'm very thankful for my local Walgreen's pharmacy. The vet said to give him 1 unit once a day and showed me where and how at the appointment. Will start in the morning, gonna read over everything again to make sure I do it correctly. Wish me luck.
Thank you everyone for your advice!
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top