NEWBIES LAURIE & PRISCILLA FROM MIAMI

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Marlingirl

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Hi all... I've posted on the general board a few times, but need some help now with the ProZinc Prissy's been taking.

At the specialist's, her glucose was at 377. She came home from 36 hours in the hospital post-dx on Wednesday 7/7 on 2 units twice a day. On Thursday night, because I was having trouble feeding her, I brought her in for a quick stick and she was at 227. (I was trying to change her eating habits overnight, getting her to eat enough in the morning for a shot and again 12 hours later for the second shot. It didn't work and mealtimes became totally stressful for both of us, since Prissy's been a grazer for 17 years!) The vet dropped her to 1 unit twice a day, and I brought her back Saturday morning for follow-up blood work. Her glucose was at 159 and I was advised not to give her the ProZinc because they were afraid the number may have been high due to stress (riding to the vet, getting poked, etc.) and they thought she might go hypo. They decided to go with 1/2 unit once a day, and then they took her off all together until the internist could review everything. Her last injection was 1/2 unit Sunday night. Her urine was always coming up negative for both glucose and ketones.

Now she's been grazing and watering at her own pace again, thanks to some Fancy Feast you guys suggested mixed in with her k/d wet. She's been munching on the dry k/d as well. Given her CKD AND a current UTI AND recent onset of vision loss (which IMHO combined to bring about the elevated glucose levels to begin with), I'm wondering if she's really diabetic at all. The internist called this morning and he wants me to start her back on 1 unit twice a day the next time glucose shows up in her urine (using ketodiastix). Then I'm to cut to 1/2 a unit if I get 2 consecutive negatives, etc.

HERE'S MY QUESTION: CAN THE INSULIN HURT HER IF SHE'S NOT TRULY DIABETIC AND HAS ELEVATED GLUCOSE LEVELS BECAUSE OF THE STRESS BROUGHT ON BY LOSING HER VISION AND THE UTI? (It's a nasty one -- she's on Baytril for at least 21 days, possibly longer.) I'm not trying to second guess the doctor, but I don't want her on ANYTHING more than what she needs to feel better. I think it's really the infection that has knocked her for a loop. She was getting around the house fine without seeing -- kitchen. bedroom, litter box, even getting up and down off my bed -- until about 10 days ago, when all this started happening.

Thank you...............Laurie and Priscilla
 
Wow, it really sounds like you guys are going through a lot right now! Given your situation especially, it is vitally important that you hometest her blood glucose so that you can truly get an idea of where she is at without the extra vet stress. If she is riding below 150 most of the time, then no, she doesn't need insulin. Many non-diabetics will ride around 50-80 even with stressed numbers around 120-170 (generalizations of course). If your priscilla is above that, then yes, she will need insulin. I know you mentioned about bringing her to you for an ear stick - so I guess that means that you have a meter and such to do the hometesting. Can you get a couple more at home tests without insulin so we can see where she is at?
 
Thanks for responding. No, I'm not hometesting at the moment -- I'm so stressed I just realized I haven't eaten at all today and may not get around to it for awhile as I do my research online....

I know she may be able to go off the insulin at some point (assuming she IS diabetic) -- but isn't everything so skewed because of the infection? I want to let her graze today and give her an injection around 7-8 pm -- assuming, of course, I can get a urine reading from her before that. She's nocturnal -- always has been -- sleeps away her days and perks up and eats in the evenings.
 
I'm also supposed to be going on vacation in 2 1/2 weeks and I can't imagine how that will happen - I have a couple of friends who said they'd be willing to give her shots (one came with me to the vet to learn how) -- but all this testing and eating and monitoring -- I don't even know how I'll be able to go back to work once school starts!!
 
Laurie,

First of all....breathe, I know you are stressed. You need to think about this logically. It is true that if she is diabetic, an infection will cause her BG to be elevated. Since it is elevated, she is diabetic....it really is that simple. Even if the infection clears up and her BG goes back to normal levels, she will still be diabetic, just in remission/diet controlled. She will need to be monitored from now on regardless.

Trying to regulate her insulin dose by urine testing is far from ideal. I wrote a long reply to your post on Health.

Think about it this way, if you were diabetic yourself, would you give yourself insulin without knowing what your BG # was? Would you be satisfied with a urine test that showed if your blood sugar was so high (hours ago) that it was spilling into your urine? Nope, you would use a meter and test your blood to know what your BG is now, and base your insulin dose on that information. What we are suggesting is that the same method that human diabetics use should be used to help you manage your cat's diabetes. It's really not radical, it makes good sense. And it works! Look at all of the people here, look at their spreadsheets, see for yourself!

I offered to talk to you on the phone on the other thread. Please feel free to respond, I will gladly help you in any way I can! We really do want to help you, but we can't do it for you....you have to be willing to try what we suggest. You will be very happy that you did if you will just try. You have nothing to lose and everything to gain.
 
I hear ya, I do... I'm scared of the home testing... I would call you on the phone if I thought it would help, but I need to be shown. I'm still trying to get a urine reading from her -- I keep missing her in the box (she doesn't go that often). My plan at this point is to take her to my vet (not the specialist) in the morning and see if he or one of the techs can teach me how to use the meter. The spreadsheets -- I've looked at them, I find them confusing. If I can start testing her, I will show the spreadsheets to a friend and see if they can make me understand them. Sorry I sound so stupid -- I'm a 22 year veteran teacher of gifted kids and I have a master's degree -- but when it comes to this, I'm really freaked out.
 
You do NOT sound stupid, not at all! I know it is overwhelming, I remember very well how scary it was to get the diagnosis and have to learn how to give shots....I'm needle phobic! Then I found this site and started reading, my head was spinning, and it took some time to digest it all. Believe me, we've all been there!

Don't worry about the spreadsheets yet. When you are ready to set one up, there are directions in the Tech forum. As far as reading them: the AMPS and PMPS stand for morning and night preshot BG #s, the "U" column is the number of units of insulin given. The +1, +2, +3, etc. mean the # of hours after the shot was given. If you don't understand something (whatever it is) just post and someone will help you. We have all been where you are, and we will help you, all you have to do is ask. There really are no silly questions, so please ask.

I hope the vet tech can teach you to test. If that doesn't work out, please post to let us know. I will start a thread asking for home testing help in Miami and we can try to find someone who can help you, ok? I did look in the member list, and I didn't find anyone active in Miami, but many people don't put a location down.

If you weren't able to get a urine test, there are some tricks you can use. One is to put saran wrap in the area where she likes to pee in the litter box on top of the litter, sort of tuck the corners in. Another is to replace the litter with aquarium gravel (clean of course) and then you can test the urine even if you can't catch her in the act. I haven't had to use those tricks, I've been able to catch Tinkles in the act..lucky I guess. :mrgreen:
 
Thanks, Laurie. I have some baggies on top of the litter, maybe that will work in the absence of saran wrap. She ate some more wet food a little while ago and had some water, too, so I'm hoping for some results soon. I'm a little hesitant to give her an injection so late at night because I've got to get some sleep and I can't stay up to see how she reacts. So I'm thinking I might wait until morning. Better hyper than hypo, everyone tells me.
I'm trying to buck up some confidence so I can do this testing. If it brings me some peace of mind and gets her regulated, it'll be worth it. I'm starting to understand it's the right thing to do. I wish I could get one of these meters I see advertised on TV that "talk" to you and you don't have to prick your finger -- if only there were one of those for kitties!!
If you come across someone in Miami, please let me know.
 
Hi Laurie, I have hometesting newbie kits to mail out. You simply definetly WANT to do this for Priscilla, believe me. accept an offer to chat on the phone...it will help clarify things for you. pm me if you need help aquiring the testing supplies.
Your kitty will be receiving the 5 star treatment and will definetly get better.
Lori
 
Thanks Lori -- and Laurie -- from Laurie! It must be fate....

Venita set up a spreadsheet for Prissy and we're almost ready to go. I'm heading for the regular vet this morning -- my 2 favorite techs are in -- and they said they're happy to teach me how to test her and I can discuss everything with the doctor when I get there. I'm taking Prissy with me so we can get an accurate BG and start from there. Keep your fingers crossed!

Meanwhile, urine still tests negative for glucose and ketones this morning (yay) and even though she's eating and drinking, I think she could probably use some subQ fluids. I'll let you know how the vet visit turns out.
 
YAY! Awesome news about the vet techs being able to help you, and no glucose in the urine! Please let us know how it goes, I'm so happy that you are getting started. You won't be sorry! (Don't forget to take treats with you!)

Thanks to Venita too! I have never set up a SS for anybody else, so I'm glad she was able to give you a hand with that!

Yep, it's fate, all us Lauries/Loris getting together here! :lol:
 
Hi, Laurie :)

I was in your spot when I had to start hometesting my cat, Blackie. She was diagnosed in March, and back then the vet didn't want me to hometest her, so we constantly took her to the vet. The constant trips were stressing her and us out. I found this message board, and everyone on here suggested that I begin the hometesting myself. I'm glad I did. Someone close by me came over and showed me how to do it. I'm also glad I did because Blackie went hypo the next afternoon, and together, my friend and I got her out of the situation and back to more manageable #'s.

Considering I wasn't squeamish about giving shots, getting blood shouldn't be a problem. In the beginning, yes, it was a bit nerve wracking, but after watching a couple of YouTube videos, I finally figured it out. Now, I'm almost a poke-addicted hometesting freak. LOL :)

Here's a video that'll help you:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_zE12-4fVn8

I know that there's another video out there that shows a better sweet spot that's closer to the top of the ear, but that's all I can find right now.

You'll do fine. :) Just remember to breathe, and remember that you're doing this for your baby. You're saving your baby's life. :)
 
Hi Laurie,

I'm glad things are starting to fall into place.

The home testing gets easier and easier as you figure out what works best for you.

As far as the spreadsheet goes, you don't have to understand it at first (thankfully, because they still baffle me) because there are many experienced people who do understand them and will be watching over you and will let you know what they see in your spreadsheet. Like they do me. You just need to fill it in.

Hang in there. I'll be waiting for the update.

Robin
 
Hi guys -- quick update because I'm on the run today....

Prissy's BG was 131 at the vet. Her bloodwork is all within normal range except the creatinine, which is elevated from the UTI but has gone down quite a bit since the baytril has kicked in.

She had a little enema for the constipation and immediately started scratching around on the exam table for litter!! She pooped -- and pooped -- and pooped again! Even once in her carrier on the way home for good measure! I'm sure that was a great relief. They also gave me some lactulose to soften her up for the next time.

She hasn't eaten or drunk much, but she used the litter box to poop once more last night and has peed a couple of times -- nothing showing up. I'm using Purina Glucotest flakes in the litter box so there's a constant readout on the glucose, if it starts to show up. I'll keep using the ketodiastix as well.

The vet said no insulin until she shows positive in the urine and then to bring her in to get an accurate reading. Since she's not on insulin for now, poking her at home constantly will only add to her stress. She was NOT happy getting her ear poked, but at least I saw how (realtively) easy it is to squeeze some blood out of her. He's concerned about the vein collapsing as well, since she's old. She's pretty pooped out (literally!) so I'm letting her sleep. I did give her some lactulose and her baytril this morning, she ate a few bites of wet fancy feast/k/d mixture, and I'm letting her be.

On the better news front, I discovered that my mechanic's daughter was pre-vet in college and has worked as a vet tech for several years and has loads of experience with diabetic kitties. She lives close by and pet-sits!! The first question she asked me: are you testing Priscilla at home? I hugged her so hard I almost squished her! So now I truly feel like I have all the bases covered and I can spend a few days up north with my family next month and not freak out the entire time -- just most of it! LOL
 
Hi! Congrats on all the good news!!! I haven't read her history closely, but wanted to mention if you are using something ongoing to soften her stool, you may want to go with Miralax rather than Lactulose. Even though the form of the sugar in lactulose isn't supposed to affect their BGs, I think (?) some have found that it does. I could be remembering wrong, but I think I have seen that mentioned in the Health forum. Just a thought. :) The Miralax seems to work very well, and if you are interested in trying it you can get more info on it (how much to give, etc.) either here or definitely on Health.
 
just wanted to add Laurie, that we don't aim for the vein when we poke, we get the little cappilary at the VERY edge of the ear. If you do end up needing to poke. which fingers and paws crossed maybe you won't :mrgreen:
 
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