Hi everyone! I'm Tina, I am owned by 2 cats, Moose & Boots - both strays that knew a couple of softies when they saw them! :lol: Moose was just diagnosed with diabetes this past Saturday, he is on Vetsulin shots twice daily & is getting Hill's Science Diet m/d dry & wet. The vet prescribed only 3/4 cup of dry per day & a 1/4 can of wet per injection per day. My question is: is this enough food? He is a larger cat, he's bigger in size than Boots, he almost reminds me of a Manie Coon but he's not that breed. He is overweight as there's some flab around his middle that shouldn't be there so I know he does need to lose some weight (he weighed 15 pounds at the vet Saturday), but this poor cat is starving! We did free-feed before but we're gone about 10 hours a day for work so after they eat all the food we put out in the am, they have nothing until we get home in the late afternoon. Every time I've went to feed Moose after starting the vet's regimen, Moose acts like he hasn't had food for days & once he cleans up what we give him, he goes to find Boots' food & try to eat it! We've started staying out with both of them to make sure that Boots doesn't get bullied away from his food. I know that eventually he'll get used to not eating as much food, but is making such an abrupt change a good thing? I just feel like a horrible person! I have a call into the vet's office to discuss it, but so far she hasn't called back. Any help would be appreciated!
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Larry and Kitties
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The best way to determine the cats' needs is to frequently weight the cat. If you want the cat to loose weight you want a steady. slow decrease. The amout you described seems like a good starting place. Other wll be here shortly about ditching the dry and ditching the DM together and using a commercial, low-carb all canned diet.
Sue and Oliver (GA)
Very Active Member
Welcome Tina,
You are in the right places to get your questions answered. We have all had/have a diabetic cat and know just how you feel. The best thing to do first is to read (and I had to print off so I could read again and again). Start with the FAQ's on the Board index page. Then this website: http://www.catinfo.org by a vet who explains about food and the need for wet, lo carb. Also this site that lists food by carb amount: http://www.felinediabetes.com/diabetic-cat-diets.htm
When a newly diabetic cat is not regulated, they are literally starving. Their bodies do not process food well. I would encourage you to feed more. When Oliver was first diagnosed, we fed 3 cans of Fancy Feast a day - 9 ounces. When he got regulated, we went back to his normal 6 - 7 ounces a day. He was a large overweight Maine Coon who became a good weight for the first time in his life (after years of feeding him Science Diet light - ugh!) It would be nice if you could free feed since he can use the food if he ever dips low. You might want to freeze it and put it out that way for him to graze on. (This works for lots of people. Gotta admit Oliver just dragged it around the house and made a mess.....)
Start learning and come back with lots of questions. Soon we will start to nag you about hometesting. It is the only way to keep your Moose safe.
You are in the right places to get your questions answered. We have all had/have a diabetic cat and know just how you feel. The best thing to do first is to read (and I had to print off so I could read again and again). Start with the FAQ's on the Board index page. Then this website: http://www.catinfo.org by a vet who explains about food and the need for wet, lo carb. Also this site that lists food by carb amount: http://www.felinediabetes.com/diabetic-cat-diets.htm
When a newly diabetic cat is not regulated, they are literally starving. Their bodies do not process food well. I would encourage you to feed more. When Oliver was first diagnosed, we fed 3 cans of Fancy Feast a day - 9 ounces. When he got regulated, we went back to his normal 6 - 7 ounces a day. He was a large overweight Maine Coon who became a good weight for the first time in his life (after years of feeding him Science Diet light - ugh!) It would be nice if you could free feed since he can use the food if he ever dips low. You might want to freeze it and put it out that way for him to graze on. (This works for lots of people. Gotta admit Oliver just dragged it around the house and made a mess.....)
Start learning and come back with lots of questions. Soon we will start to nag you about hometesting. It is the only way to keep your Moose safe.
Jean and Megan
Active Member
You've received some good answers regarding the food. I just wanted to be sure you are aware of the FDA's current warning about Vetsulin. It's all over the internet; one place is here: http://www.aahanet.org/resources/graphi ... -16-09.pdf I'm surprised your vet started you on that particular insulin right now. If this is news to you, call your vet and ask about it.
Welcome to FDMB! The best place you could have landed in this difficult situation.
Welcome to FDMB! The best place you could have landed in this difficult situation.
Sue and Oliver (GA)
Very Active Member
Forgot to say. DO NOT change to all wet food until you are hometesting. In lots of kitties, it can really make a difference in bg levels. In Oliver, he went down 100 points overnight. We were hometesting so could adjust his dose and not overdose him.
Hillary & Maui (GA)
Very Active Member
WELCOME, this forum is a great place to gain knowledge and really learn how to manage feline diabetes. By doing just a few things each day (that really won't take up much of your time at all), you won't need to worry about losing your precious cat, not where feline diabetes is concerned.
There are three key factors to managing diabetes: food/nutrition, home testing and insulin
1) Feline Nutrition: Now, as far as diet - definitely dump the dry food (if you are feeding any) and if the vet recommends purchasing prescription food like DM just say "no thank you". ALL cats, and especially those with diabetes, do best on a species appropriate diet that is high in protein and low in carbs. Dry food DOES NOT fit that bill and DM food, even canned, just really isn't that great as far as quality. Most here on FDMB feed low carb/high protein canned, raw bought from a pet store or they make there own.
Here great links, one is to a food chart put together by one of our board members that breaks down the carb % and protein % of most of the commercial brand foods. You want to keep the carb % below 10% and around 7% is great. The other link is to a site by a vet "Dr. Lisa DVM" ... who also posts on this board from time to time ... there is in-depth info. there about many things, including nutrition and how to make raw food.
Nutrition/food info
The good thing with feeding your diabetic cat this way, is that it is ALSO good for any non-diabetic cat too. All your cats can safely eat the same food without worry and it may save you some costs and headaches of having to do separate feedings and keeping track of what they are eating.
2. Home testing: It is impossible to convey the value of testing your cat's BG (blood glucose) level at home. Some vets will "suggest" this, but most won't even mention it. They will send you home with insulin and an amount to shoot and maybe some instructions about hypoglycemia (blood sugar dropping to a dangerously low level).
Well, the thing is, human diabetics don't EVER give themselves insulin without checking there BG to make sure it is safe to do so, so why shouldn't it be the same for our kitties. Here on FDMB it is. You will notice that the vast majority of people here test their cat's BG at least 2x/day (before giving each shot to make sure the level is safe enough) and periodically at other times to see how the cat is responding to the current dose. We use a human glucometer, test strips and lancets - which are all very readily available and easy to use.
Our kitties get lots of love and treats for "putting up" with this and most of them actually come out to be tested on their own 'cause they want those treats . Here is a collection of great links that "Carolyn and Spot" pulled together about hometesting. See what you think ... it truly is the best way to not only keep Your cat safe but also really get a handle on this disease and help him to live a healthy life with FD (feline diabetes).
Home testing Links
3. Insulin: There are several types of insulin available. Many people, myself included use Lantus or Levimer both of which are great insulins. They are gentle insulin and given twice (BID) per day in 12 hour increments.
Please read up on the insulins available, here is a link to the Insulin Support Groups:
Insulin Support Groups
However, one caveat and again this shows how these three things are inter-related:
If you are feeding dry food or even a high carb food, BEFORE removing these foods, please make sure of your insulin dose as it will most likely need to be reduced, so as to avoid a possible hypoglycemic situation due to the removal of the dry/high carb foods that will lower the BG’s and reduce the amount of insulin required. Again, another reason why home testing is important.
I know this all seems like a lot, and that's because it is ... there is a learning curve here. But as long as you are determined and keep at it, you will have it down before you know it and you'll be seeing the results in Your cat' overall health and happiness. Ask all the questions you can think of - that's why we are here!
Also, if you haven't done it yet, take the time and fill out your profile. It will help when others come on and read this. Also, let us know where you live - city/state as there are probably people in your area who can provide on the ground support and help you to learn home testing, etc.
There are three key factors to managing diabetes: food/nutrition, home testing and insulin
1) Feline Nutrition: Now, as far as diet - definitely dump the dry food (if you are feeding any) and if the vet recommends purchasing prescription food like DM just say "no thank you". ALL cats, and especially those with diabetes, do best on a species appropriate diet that is high in protein and low in carbs. Dry food DOES NOT fit that bill and DM food, even canned, just really isn't that great as far as quality. Most here on FDMB feed low carb/high protein canned, raw bought from a pet store or they make there own.
Here great links, one is to a food chart put together by one of our board members that breaks down the carb % and protein % of most of the commercial brand foods. You want to keep the carb % below 10% and around 7% is great. The other link is to a site by a vet "Dr. Lisa DVM" ... who also posts on this board from time to time ... there is in-depth info. there about many things, including nutrition and how to make raw food.
Nutrition/food info
The good thing with feeding your diabetic cat this way, is that it is ALSO good for any non-diabetic cat too. All your cats can safely eat the same food without worry and it may save you some costs and headaches of having to do separate feedings and keeping track of what they are eating.
2. Home testing: It is impossible to convey the value of testing your cat's BG (blood glucose) level at home. Some vets will "suggest" this, but most won't even mention it. They will send you home with insulin and an amount to shoot and maybe some instructions about hypoglycemia (blood sugar dropping to a dangerously low level).
Well, the thing is, human diabetics don't EVER give themselves insulin without checking there BG to make sure it is safe to do so, so why shouldn't it be the same for our kitties. Here on FDMB it is. You will notice that the vast majority of people here test their cat's BG at least 2x/day (before giving each shot to make sure the level is safe enough) and periodically at other times to see how the cat is responding to the current dose. We use a human glucometer, test strips and lancets - which are all very readily available and easy to use.
Our kitties get lots of love and treats for "putting up" with this and most of them actually come out to be tested on their own 'cause they want those treats . Here is a collection of great links that "Carolyn and Spot" pulled together about hometesting. See what you think ... it truly is the best way to not only keep Your cat safe but also really get a handle on this disease and help him to live a healthy life with FD (feline diabetes).
Home testing Links
3. Insulin: There are several types of insulin available. Many people, myself included use Lantus or Levimer both of which are great insulins. They are gentle insulin and given twice (BID) per day in 12 hour increments.
Please read up on the insulins available, here is a link to the Insulin Support Groups:
Insulin Support Groups
However, one caveat and again this shows how these three things are inter-related:
If you are feeding dry food or even a high carb food, BEFORE removing these foods, please make sure of your insulin dose as it will most likely need to be reduced, so as to avoid a possible hypoglycemic situation due to the removal of the dry/high carb foods that will lower the BG’s and reduce the amount of insulin required. Again, another reason why home testing is important.
I know this all seems like a lot, and that's because it is ... there is a learning curve here. But as long as you are determined and keep at it, you will have it down before you know it and you'll be seeing the results in Your cat' overall health and happiness. Ask all the questions you can think of - that's why we are here!
Also, if you haven't done it yet, take the time and fill out your profile. It will help when others come on and read this. Also, let us know where you live - city/state as there are probably people in your area who can provide on the ground support and help you to learn home testing, etc.
thanks everyone!
Ceil99, the dosage of insulin we were told to start out at was 1 unit twice a day (using the U-40 syringes) but when the vet called me back finally, she told me to give him 2 units of insulin at the evening shots (we're better able to monitor him in the evening), so hopefully that will help him feel fuller & be able to stop eating as much.
Jean, thanks for that link, I'll print it & take it with me Saturday to see if they'll get me something different. It doesn't make sense why they would still dispense it out if there's a problem...
Hillary, thanks for the food info, I'll start going over it & see what I can find locally. (or if I have to, I'll get some online!)
as for testing at home, I haven't looked at anything like that but will definitely look that info over too. it sounds kinda scary to me, but then again, so did giving the shots at first....
Ceil99, the dosage of insulin we were told to start out at was 1 unit twice a day (using the U-40 syringes) but when the vet called me back finally, she told me to give him 2 units of insulin at the evening shots (we're better able to monitor him in the evening), so hopefully that will help him feel fuller & be able to stop eating as much.
Jean, thanks for that link, I'll print it & take it with me Saturday to see if they'll get me something different. It doesn't make sense why they would still dispense it out if there's a problem...
Hillary, thanks for the food info, I'll start going over it & see what I can find locally. (or if I have to, I'll get some online!)
as for testing at home, I haven't looked at anything like that but will definitely look that info over too. it sounds kinda scary to me, but then again, so did giving the shots at first....
Sweetgrass & the Furries
Active Member
Hello.
I would really encourage you to stick with 1 unit even at night right now. Until you see how the insulin is working, a slightly more cautious approach, along with ketone testing is recommended.
here is a user guide to this insulin, but I echo the others. This is not a reliable insulin right now and should be switched from asap.
viewtopic.php?f=19&t=302
Home testing is your friend, especially in these first days ......test and ask questions and read through the faqs stickied above. Normal levels range from about 60-120. You do not wnat to give insuli if you see these levels as a preshot.
If you see a preshot level ( test about 20 minutes before shot ) below 180 right now, hold off and come here and check in for how to approach that in relation to the other data you gather kay?
This is much less overwhelming once about 2 weeks has passed....you are not alone, we have all been exactly where you are now in our first days.
Kimmee
I would really encourage you to stick with 1 unit even at night right now. Until you see how the insulin is working, a slightly more cautious approach, along with ketone testing is recommended.
here is a user guide to this insulin, but I echo the others. This is not a reliable insulin right now and should be switched from asap.
viewtopic.php?f=19&t=302
Home testing is your friend, especially in these first days ......test and ask questions and read through the faqs stickied above. Normal levels range from about 60-120. You do not wnat to give insuli if you see these levels as a preshot.
If you see a preshot level ( test about 20 minutes before shot ) below 180 right now, hold off and come here and check in for how to approach that in relation to the other data you gather kay?
This is much less overwhelming once about 2 weeks has passed....you are not alone, we have all been exactly where you are now in our first days.
Kimmee
ceil99
Active Member
If you are not hometesting already, you really need to start!! Hometesting is VERY important. Most of us here use any human meter. Think of it as a human diabetic does. *If it were you or a child of yours, you'd be testing blood glucose levels at home prior to each shot; you'd be working with your doctor to determine a proper dose based on those shot results, correct?* Some vets do not agree with hometesting and I cannot for the life of me understand why. Most vets, sadly are not knowledgeable enough in feline diabetes. Insulin is a VERY powerful drug and you NEED to hometest before giving a shot. This is very important. The vet would rather have you bring the cat to them, stress it out more, which may spike the levels anyway and then they can charge you $$. Hometesting saved me a lot of money and it is VERY important for you personally to know the cat’s levels and how it is reacting to the insulin before you shoot so you do not pass up your ideal dosage.
Thanks to everyone's help here I learned to home test 2 cats and they both got off insulin within 3 weeks with diet change…but of course, they reacting both DIFFERENTLY with the process. If I can do it with 2 cats twice a day (and more on curve days), ANYONE can do it. It does NOT hurt them as much as you think it does. It just stings for a moment and then it is gone, you can try it on yourself. Also, put pressure on the ear after poking and it should minimize the nub. They won't mind it once they start feeling better. I use the True Track meter (CVS or Walgreens brand) which I love. And, the strips are also reasonable. Also, remember to give them a treat after the test. Here is a link to a member videos on hometesting:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_zE12-4fVn8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZ6iXetR398
Thanks to everyone's help here I learned to home test 2 cats and they both got off insulin within 3 weeks with diet change…but of course, they reacting both DIFFERENTLY with the process. If I can do it with 2 cats twice a day (and more on curve days), ANYONE can do it. It does NOT hurt them as much as you think it does. It just stings for a moment and then it is gone, you can try it on yourself. Also, put pressure on the ear after poking and it should minimize the nub. They won't mind it once they start feeling better. I use the True Track meter (CVS or Walgreens brand) which I love. And, the strips are also reasonable. Also, remember to give them a treat after the test. Here is a link to a member videos on hometesting:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_zE12-4fVn8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZ6iXetR398
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