Newbie w/cat w/mild diabetes - any remission stories?

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butlergrad04

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Hello, I'm brand new to this, like 5 minutes ago. :)
I have an 18 pound (seriously, big boned not just fat) orange tabby named Conrad. He turned 15 last month. Still kitten-like and an absolute love of mine. I mean, like you, I am really attached to my cat. He is Mr. Personality. He has annual exams with bloodwork and has always been hearty. I even have his teeth cleaned occasionally.
He only started urinating more frequently and drinking to excess one week ago. (I was very observant about all of that esp. with him getting older. I am also single and the only one to care for him so I am sure it just developed.) His BG was 222 in Sept. when he had his physical but the vet wasn't only concerned. He just suggested that if I observe anything unusual, I might want to have Conrad's BG tested. So....I did (this week). His BG was 275 (and his fructosamine was 535). The vet said that this is a mild case of diabetes. He also said that because it is so mild and it was caught so early, if I just switch to all moist/low carb food, Conrad may be one of those lucky cats to go into remission with just the smallest dose of insulin. Conrad's diet has always been moist in the am and pm with some dry during the day. He's always favored moist (this is good, I guess).
Because his case is so mild, the vet said he was okay waiting a week to have me come back in, check Conrad's BG again and have a discussion over beginning insulin injections. (My vet had a death in the family and had to go out of town.)
My question is: if Conrad is newly diabetic and at 275 BG, he won't be suffering any major damage by waiting a week to start insulin, will he? I'm afraid of a sudden elevation. (But are the odds of this happening slim? I know hypo is much worse than hyper!) I guess I just hate seeing him acting more sluggish and want to act NOW! :) He is still eating well, however. I am just so new to this but I've done a ton of reading on your great site (thank you!) but just need a "virtual hug" and a "there-there, it will be okay" from those in the know. :) I refuse to feel overwhelmed by this. (And I just (secretly) got annoyed at some co-workers who, when I said I'd have to give Conrad shots, got all wide-eyed and said, "You have to give him shots??!!!!!", like it's the end of the world. But, I guess they just don't know that diabetes is manageable. THANKS!
 
Hey there

Congrats on catching things so fast!

To answer your question, we can't tell you difinitively if taking a week to do a diet change will be ok or not. Chances are though, it will be fine. That said, it is very important that you not only watch urine output/waterinput/behaviour/coat condition/etc., but also test his urine daily for the presence of ketones with ketostix from your local pharmacy. Cats often hide the symptoms of diabetes and other illnesses for awhile, so there is no way to know how much damage was done, etc.

Meanwhile, while you do the diet change 'thing', make sure you read up on FD including the FDMB faq linked a bit higher in this forum. And let us know how things go!

Jen
 
Thank you!!
Yeah, I'm just a worry wort by nature but I'm trying to stay calm. :)

I will buy a Ketostix today and make sure to check until Conrad goes to the vet again on Wednesday. I'm hoping that, since he had a urine test just two days ago and it only showed glucose (I'm assuming the vet would have checked for keto then as well too?) then he's doing okay thus far. Although, I know things could change at any time.

Oh, and I've already changed his diet. Well, it's only really a slight change. I've removed ALL dry food, effective this past Wed! He is used to moist food in the am and pm and it's been that way his whole life. And, turns out, the food he's been eating all this time (Friskies Special Diet) is among some of the lowest carb food on the list. So....I'm only giving him that moist food now. I don't leave dry food out anymore or leave out his little treat ball filled with bits of dry food. I'll be curious to see if just that initial, small change will have a good effect on his BG when it's checked again on Wed.
 
My Cyber arms are around you and you big orange guy.... You my dear, are absolutely fabulous... took me forever to spot my sweet Charlie's weight loss... He'd been so ... uh... cuddly, that the vet had me put him on a diet... I remember joking about... howcome diets never worked that well on me....

ANYWAY... Welcome to our FDMB family of cat lovers... We're here about 24/7 from somewhere in the world of English speaking cat lovers...

Glad you found us and that our information is helpful... Now take a deep breath and know that you are not alone in this. This board has more experience with diabetic cats than almost any vet you trip over... We know that working with your vet, you might even teach her/him a thing or two about our little furry pals.

Please keep us posted on Conrad's health... we love watching them spring back, so to speak. My Charlie at 18 with 6-7 years of insulin injections was playing and teasing and stealing my chicken the last day of his life last year. A blood clot to the brain took him...but only physically... he is so alive in my heart.

The diabetic Stevie that we adopted three plus years ago from the HS... (His first set of caregivers, refused to treat his diabetes).. They said to put him to sleep, and he was only three. Within ten days of testing his BG levels and diminishing doses of insulin.... he was off the juice within ten days... Really. He now is a diet controlled diabetic... and a very big lover type guy.

Either way... Charlie and Stevie were very loved, and diabetes is just a bump in the road to a long long life.
 
you are not currently testing your cat are you? sorry if i missed that.
that is one thing that will empower you enourmously with even a mild case of diabetes and save you money on vet visits. even with a small dose of insulin it is great to know what # you are shooting into.
if we can help you get started with testing look at the link below called newbie kits.
 
I thought so...but was confused with the tiny amount of insulin comment. I read faster than I process :lol:
still would be good to have...
 
Thanks to you all of your comments. (And thanks Carol-Charlie for your cyber hug! I needed it!)

No, I'm not testing currently. Conrad was just diagnosed on Wed. (He spent all day at the vet.) and he's due back next Wed. to start insulin. In the meantime, I am feeding just moist food and watching closely. I will be buying a meter and strips today after work. I just found about his condition so I haven't gotten anything yet.
 
First off Congrats on you for catching the changes in Conrad so quickly, you are one good momma bean!

Second of all BREATHE! This is all so scary and over-whelming at first, but it sounds like you have a great attitude to treating your Conrad, so another plus for you.

You have already gotten a lot of good info, but since you asked in your title for remission stories, here is the story of my sweet boy Max.

About 2 weeks ago I got an email from another member of this board about a nice kitty that had 24 hours before he was scheduled to be put to sleep if a new home couldn't be found for him, simply because his last care-giver had to go to a nursing home and he was diabetic. Well to make a long story shorter, we did a lot of emailing back and forth, got Max out of the Vet clinic where he was scheduled to be PTS, he spent a week with the member that pulled him, she started him on Lantus, then we got him on a plane from MA to me here in NE. Since he has been in my home and eating the same low carb/high protein wet diet as the rest of my furry kids he has only had to have 1 small shot, and as of just a few minutes ago when I checked his BG at home he is a perfectly normal diet controlled kitty. While it is still to early for me to declare him OTJ (off the juice or in remission) we have every belief that very shortly we will be making that announcement. But we are one of the lucky ones with Max, we took a stab in the dark and because of it and the wonderful folks here, we now have a wonderful new addition to our family. Him being diabetic was just a bump along the way, and got his paw in the door. :-D

Max has been thorough a lot in his short 12 years. First he was a Katerina rescue, then went to the Boston area, only to lose that human, now he is with my husband and I and a hoard of furry kids (see my signature below to see the whole zoo). So Max has no real reason to trust anyone let alone me who he has only known for about a week. But if I can easily test his BG by poking his ears, then think of how easy it will be for you to learn to test Conrad who you already have a long and loving relationship with. We can help you along the way. If I wasn't home testing I would not have known that Max was trying for remission and could have seriously hurt him shooting blind.

Regardless if you are lucky with Conrad, and he improves with a change of diet, or not and he needs insulin shots for the rest of his days, I just can't stress how important learning to home test is.

Mel

So welcome to the FDMB family just keep posting and we will keep walking you through it all. ((((((Big cyber hugs))))
 
you can order a newbie kit from us. it's free other than postage and will have everything you need to start testing soon as he gets home.
check out the link in this post called newbie kits.
you are welcome to add a small donation if you like.
we put these together for the conveinence of nervous newbie's and for some who simply can't afford the expense.
 
There are lots of possibilities for meters. You want one that sips and takes a tiny sample. Lots of people like the ReliOn fromWalmart because it has the cheapest strips. (the most expensive part of the process.)

My remission story: We came here, changed Oliver's diet, started home testing and reducing the amount of insulin he needed and he was off insulin in 6 months. Every cat is different but the protocol here has been very successful.
 
Oh, the success stories are helping me see a light at the end of the tunnel (although I'd never considered giving up on Conrad. No way).
Wow, you folks are GREAT....and knowledgeable...and making me feel better and better.
Thanks again. People like me are so lucky to have people like you to turn to for advice in our role as newbie (geriatric) diabetic pet parents!
Have a great weekend, everybody.
 
Hi there,

I have 4 different remission stories. Mel told you about Max that started on insulin at my house south of Boston before flying to Nebraska last Friday. I suspected he would go into remission based on my home blood glucose readings.

Vinnie went into remission with a diet change, as did Ivan (was Jules).

Ivan was interesting. Two of us from the board orchestrated his escape from a no-kill cage free shelter. Food there was only dry, and he was receiving 6u of Lantus twice a day. In 24 hours, with a dramatic food change which he still doesn't particularly like, he went for 12 unit a day of insulin to 0. Yes, I said 0. He has been off insulin for at least 6 months.

Early on, I had a huge big orange tabby (23 pounds) that I put on Lantus and changed his diet. Mufasa was not happy with wet food. It took 5 months to switch him totally to wet food. And, he went off insulin. He was adopted by a local vet and is still off insulin 2 years later. I periodically get updates. He now weighs 13 pounds.

Hope this inspires you to get a meter and tackle home testing. Good luck:) We are all cheering for you both.

Claudia
 
I'm still scheduled to bring Conrad to the vet on Wed. to start on Lantus. However, he hasn't had (that evil) dry food in 6 days and I can already tell that he's been peeing less. I think I'll treat him to some baked chicken for dinner tonight. He deserves it. :)
 
If you haven't already gotten a meter, I'd highly recommend that you do that before you start giving the Lantus. As others have told you, some cats go into remission on food alone. Two of mine that I adopted recently are diet controlled, one of mine will be insulin dependent for life but he's got other things going on besides FD.

Learn to hometest now and maybe you wont even need to spend the money on the insulin and syringes.
 
Thanks. I have a meter now and plan on testing him today and tomorrow. That way, when I go to the vet on Wed. (and Conrad gets tested again) a decision might be made to put him on one dose of insulin or possibly none at all! I want to go the appt. armed with some recent BG #s.
 
Going to the vet may raise Conrad's blood sugar. He may be in the 100s or 200s at home, but stress from the car or the vet could raise it another 100 points. If you do start insulin, try to keep that in mind and start on a low dose since you have the food change going on during this. It's great that you are going to start hometesting :)
 
Hello..
we also had remission, 7 days after taking all dry away and switching to lower carb canned food.......Abby was on insulin for 2 months and then off until cancer took her from us 3 years later..

One thing I wanted to mention, blood sugar can become elevated when the body is fighting an infection or other medical issue.
You sound so thorough, but not sure if your vet did a complete work-up, and tested for something that may be flaring up like a urinary tract infection?
Worth investigating. We have seen many kitties show up here with a new diagnosis of diabetes, and then discover an infection that a round of antibiotics cleared up and voila...they no longer need insulin.

((((((hugs))))) You sound very on top of all this, and if your kitty does end up needing insulin, it is not terrible. it just becomes a new kind of normal and there is tons of support and info here.

Kimmee
 
Kimmee, thanks for the head's up! That's some good advice! I will definitely talk to the vet about that.
Fingers crossed that, since being off dry food for 6 days ( Conrad is peeing less --he seems back to normal in that regard) he might not need insulin after all. But, if he does, we will cope! (I have a brother who's been diabetic since he was 23 (he's 44 now) and he seems to think I can do it. :)
 
My 19 lb. orange longhair started Lantus end of July. I switched him to a very controlled portion diet of nothing by canned wet food. Today, he is off the Lantus and had a bg of 97 yesterday. I still intend to keep a vigilant eye on him and test weekly. Controlling his portions is also slimming him down, I think.

So, remission IS possible. Good luck.
 
Thanks, Ruth V. I'm so glad I found this forum so that I could hear promising things about possible remission and cats who do well despite diabetes.
 
I did my first successful blood draw yesterday. :smile:
I had given up the day prior (too many sticks to the ear and foot paw pads - but he didn't seem to mind. I'd pricked myself a few times and it didn't hurt at all). I tried again last night, two hours after he'd eaten and was lounging around. Warm ears do make the difference. His BG was 237 and this was after eating...and running upstairs in a panic because the Airtron guy had come to do the routine furnace tune-up. :) So, I guess 237 with no insulin yet and under those circumstances isn't too, too bad. He goes to the vet tonight to discuss beginning insulin.
 
Congrats and welcome to the Vampire Club :-D

It can be a little frustrating in the beginning but their ears really do learn to bleed. Even though Fenix is now diet controlled I still check him every other day, and now all I have to do is go sit on the bed and tell him "Ears time" and he jumps up on the bed to be tested. Of course the moment he hears the meter beep he starts looking for his chicken treats...lol. Smart kitty. It just takes patience, perservence and of course lots of TREATS! Oh yeah a good sense of humor doesn't hurt either.

Mel
 
Just to add one more diet controlled story from your neck of the woods (Indiana).....my Splash was on insulin for only 23 days (he did start insulin immediately upon dx). But through the diet change and support of the insulin (and that we also ruled out infection through bloodwork) his pancreas was able to heal enough to maintain healthy blood glucose levels for almost three full years before he passed away from lymphoma.

Ironically, when he was dx he was referred to as being overweight at 12 pounds. Just a few months later he was weighed again at the same vet and was still 12 pounds, but was now referred to as a healthy weight. The better diet allowed him to reduce body fat and rebuild muscle mass so he looked wonderful! Other benefits of the diet change was less shedding because my cat's skin was better hydrated and their fur also has felt wonderfully soft, never coarse or rough anymore (unless they were getting sick...which was a signal to me if I was missing it).

Good luck and hang around. Keep asking questions as you need to!!!
 
Well, it looks like Conrad will get a reprieve for the time-being. :)
He went to the vet yesterday and the vet decided to hold off on insulin for now. I was glad he said that, not because I'm not willing to give Conrad insulin (I was prepared to start last night), but because the idea of giving him insulin when he is so mildly diabetic (he's consistently in the 200s, even after eating) scares me. I am so afraid of the hypo scenario.
Based on what I've read (and the great advice everyone here has offered up), I thought that just trying a change in diet first might make more sense. Conrad has been on nothing but moist food with 7% carbs or less for the past eight days. I told the vet that Conrad's urinating has decreased. (For the past three days, he's only been peeing two (three at the most) times per day, which was his norm.) I also checked Conrad's BG two hours after dinner the night before his vet appointment and it was 237 (still mildly diabetic but not overwhelmingly bad). And, again, this was after eating. Who knows what his BG was BEFORE he ate?
Conrad had had a fructosamine test. The vet said he was glad I felt the way I did and said, "After giving it some more thought and considering his numbers, I was going to call you so we could discuss it instead of making you come back in." He feels the same way I do. He wants me to keep Conrad on the low carb diet for another week or two and watch for any clinical signs. In addition, this Sunday I'm to do a BG curve and call my vet with the results.
If Conrad needs to go on insulin, we will cope! Obviously, it can be done with great success. But, if he can avoid it, assuming I'm vigilant enough, then I will be very happy.

(P.S. I'm feeding Conrad what's he's eaten his entire life, Friskies Special Diet Formual w/low magnesium for urinary tract health, but I'm only using the ones with 7% carbs or less. I also give him these 100% dried chicken treats (about 3-5 daily). He loves Fancy Feast (it was always his "special occasion meal. :) Problem is, none of the FF's on the Binky list have low enough carbs. Do you know of any? Or do you know of any of the supreme chunky cat foods that are low in carbs?)
 
I'm gonna disagree with this latest plan, sorry...

Your cat is running in the 200s which is diabetic, and can be causing organ damage and can put your cat at risk for complications like ketones. He may appear improved, but it is a fine line you are walking. With Squeak, we first used fructosamines to dose, and at one point took him off of insulin altogether...and then he relapsed. That is when I decided to test blood glucose levels and put him back on insulin, even though his numbers were in the 200s. His body needed a small dose of insulin for awhile before he could really be diet controlled.

I would seriously suggest a very low dose of either lantus or PZI (ie 0.5 units) twice a day to get those numbers down. You can read about glucose toxicity, etc. for more on why..

Jen
 
Thanks for sharing your experience. I'm always glad to hear other opinions. :smile: You all have experience with this - I don't!

I guess I'm just going to have to go with my vet on this one and trust a plan of attack that will only delay starting insulin for another week or two. (I've read too much about changing the diet first, then seeing what happens before staring insulin to feel more comfortable waiting a bit. I've already read horror stories of people who changed the diet, got the BG down through diet, then started insulin and the cat went seriously hypo.)
Conrad only just (within the past few weeks) developed this problem. We know because, on Labor Day, I had to take him to the vet where he was DX with feline ideopathic cystitis. (He was apparently put off by the fact that I'd painted the laundry room, "his bathroom.") The vet at the emergency clinic was very comfortable asserting that it was an innocent case of ideopathic cystitis. A urine culture was done that showed no evidence of infection. Plus (and my vet made a good point) this urine test from just 6 weeks ago showed no glucose in the urine. Conrad only starting peeing to excess two weeks ago and, after only three days of that, I called the vet and took him in. If he starts insulin in another week or two, he will have only gone about one month with mildly elevated BGs.
Nobody loves him more than I do, so I'm trying to do the best I can! :smile:
 
Oh, and I got a reply from someone who said that her vet only starts administering insulin when the BG gets to 250....so I'm confused. It seems there are so many different opinions and plans of attack.
It was hard finding out Conrad was diabetic. Getting conflicting advice (esp. when you know very little!) makes it all the more dificult. :smile:
 
Everyone here has different experiences, which makes it tough for a 'newbie' like yourself to make a decision. You have to go with your gut, your vet, and what advice works for you.

FWIW, 250 is too high for almost all of us as a cutoff and puts a cat at significant risk. There are many vets out there, and some are better than others. Any vet who uses 250 as a cut off is putting their clients at risk, and I wouldn't recommend it. Some people here will shoot at numbers much lower than 200 if experience has taught them how their cat responds, etc.

Please, if you wait another week or two, make sure you are testing for ketones and watching water intake/output, etc.
 
Yes, I will. :smile:
I obsessively watch his litter box. This is how I caught the problem right as it happened! Literally, normal pee one day, too much the next.
I also bought keto test strips. I discussed my concerns with my vet yesterday. He said that he doesn't think Conrad is a high risk for ketones because his BG levels are so mild and because, in one week of being on just moist food, he hasn't lost any weight. (He was 18.10 at his physical on Sept. 14, 18.10 on Oct. 20 and 18 even yesterday.) I know. I will check.
I pay attention to EVERYTHING! Ha ha. :smile:
 
Good point. Conrad is so chunky, hopefully he has enough fat to burn before any liver involvement would come into play. Ha. :smile:

Seriously though, because this is serious, his urine test from one week ago showed no ketones. I've already bought strips, another litter box and aquarium gravel so I am able to test at any time. I know how to use the meter now and will do a BG curve on Sunday as well as test for ketones. And dry food will never touch his lips again.

This is all such fun stuff, isn't it? :smile:

Thanks, everyone.
 
It is complicated and you have to weigh our advice against your vet. If it were my cat, and I was consistently in the mid 200s at home, after giving the wet food a week or so, I would start insulin at a very low dose, monitoring often. The problem is that the pancreas has a limited window to heal, after which time insulin and food may be a life long requirement. We have no idea what that window is - it depends on the cat as every cat (and pancreas) is different. I would err on the side of caution with the hope I could get my cat into remission, even if it took a small amount of insulin for awhile and constant ear poking.

All we can give you is our own experiences and what we would dol
 
It's all so agonizing! You want to do what's best but it requires some trial and error to know what that is! :smile:

One final point (and then I'll give it a rest)...

from what I've read (posts by some other vets) and my vet, if a cat is a newly-diagnosed mild diabetic it is probably best to change the diet BEFORE beginning insulin. This should be done immediately, and that's why my vet printed out the Binky list of foods to give to me so that I'd only feed Conrad cat foods with 7% carbs or less. (That's the magic number, my vet said.)
That way, if you change the diet for a week or two, and then do a BG curve, you can begin insulin injections with the best and safest numbers. In essence, you now know what's left of the cat's natural insulin production and how the cat's BG responded to a reduced carb diet.
Otherwise, you greatly increase the risk of a hypo reaction if you start insulin while at the same time making a change to the diet. My vet said he just wants to avoid an immediate hypo reaction. He wants me to keep feeding Conrad only moist food with 7% carbs or less, do a BG curve at home this weekend, call him on Monday with the results and then take it from there.
Since Conrad's BG was 237 two days ago AFTER eating, the vet said he can't be sure what Conrad's BG was BEFORE he ate. Maybe it was in the normal range? Who knows? And, since my vet is big on home testing and not making clients pay for test after test, he wants me to get the numbers myself and call him.

I had been a bit bored with life before all of this happened. Never again will I tell the Universe that I'm bored! That's just asking for trouble!! :smile:
 
Jennifer,

Be sure you never, never ask the Universe for a break! The kind of break you get may not be what you had in mind.

There is a concept called renal threshold in diabetes land. It is the blood glucose point at which glucose will spill into the urine. The problem is the number varies by cat. It can be anywhere between 125 and 300. Hope will tell you Mishka shoots ketones at very low numbers. Wonder where she spills glucose?

The 200 number is often picked as the renal threshold number by a lot of vets. As a human diabetic, I've always heard 240 for humans. But that varies greatly. I can spill glucose at 175 now, but 30 years ago, the number was closer to 300.

Medicine, whether human or veterinary, is more an art than a science. Every cat is different.

Armed with Binky's list, your trusty glucometer, and a watchful eye, you have the tools to be a full partner with your vet in Conrad's care.

Good luck with him,

Claudia
 
In a perfect world, in my opinion, a newly diagnosed cat would be diagnosed through a fructosamine and have a full blood workup done. Lacking other complications, cat would be immediately put on a canned or raw food diet that has moderate levels of high quality protein and low in carbs, etc. Cat would also be immediately put on a low dose of lantus or levemir or perhaps BCP PZI (dose of 0.5 - 1.0 max) and hometesting would be done from the very beginning. Clinic curves would never be done.

You can go back and forth on this, but the fact is, it is your choice. Many of us have said that at those numbers, your cat needs a little bit of insulin. The food change HAS been done. Doing a food change and starting insulin at the same time can be risky if not testing, but provides the best chance at remission.
 
Hey There I'm a Newbie too one month and not on this board often Thanks to TuckersMom I have two adopties off insulin in less than a month :-D Bill came about a month ago from a friend and with diet change my sweet chunky 16lber went off in 2 weeks. Porch 2 Has been with me for 11 days and has been off for 4 days. I'm a nervous Momma too and now Bill And Porch get their BG at home every 3rd day.
Lots of Luck
 
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