Newbie: vet prescribed Humulin N???

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Skunky's Mom

Skunky's Mom

Member Since 2014
Hi everyone! I'm Sarah
I'm so glad to have found this site. Hooray.
My best friend of 16 years was recently diagnosed diabetic. The vet prescribed Humulin N. We were going to start this weekend (she was diagnosed last week and he said to wait until we got back from vacation).

So I get to reading, and I hear all these bad things about Humulin N. I was wondering if I should call the vet Monday and ask for something else?

I don't know if he recommends it to everybody, or just to me because I was concerned about cost. I'm on a very, very tight budget these days. He said it would be about $12 for a 3 months supply (one vial). I can afford more than that, but not a whole lot more. Edit: Hopefully my financial situation will be improving soon. I didn't know if it would be bad/good/indifferent to switch insulins if I can afford a better one?

Also, he didn't say anything about home testing, but I for sure want to. I already have my boyfriend's meter that he never uses, so I'm going to use that. I figured I would try that today.

I'm glad it's only diabetes and nothing worse, like kidney disease or heart failure. She's morbidly obese :-(
I'm kind of bummed about having to board her everytime I want to go anywhere, even to spend the night at my grandma's, but oh well, She's worth it. Looks like boarding is gonna run me about $21 a day. Which is not terrible. After reading more, I doubt I would trust my sister or the neighbor girl or anyone else to give my cat shots twice a day! But maybe after we are used to it and good control.

So. . that's a question and a bit of an introduction. thanks!
 
Yes, I would ask for Lantus and I would get the 5 pack of 3 ml pens and use the syringe to draw the insulin from the pen. Be prepared for sticker shock, 5X3ml is well over $300. However, usually you can use up a pen before the insulin goes bad. Not is usually not so for the 110 ml vial of insulin
You can also ask for ProZinc with is only for animals.
A third is Levemir, a human insulin similar to Lantus
 
Thanks Larry! The $300 worth of Lantus. . . do you know how long that will last a 14 lb cat? My vet prescribed 3 units, twice a day for the Humulin N. $20 a month would be the max I could afford in insurlin, I would think, and that's stretching it, what with buying all the other things. I'm poor. It sucks.
Can it be bought in smaller quantities? That's a lot of money to come up with at once. Basically impossible.

Edit: What about Vetsulin? Anybody know much about this? Looks a lot more affordable than the Lantus.
 
Hi Sarah,

Welcome to FDMB,

When Hidey was diagnosed we used Prozinc and he responded greatly to it, but every cat is different. I think it cost us about $80 for a vial that would last 3-6 months. There is no say on how long-dosage wise a prescription will last because each cat needs a different amount but key is go low and slow. Start with a low dose and if it doesn't work slowly increase it over time. The issue with Humulin is it is a short acting insulin.

Did your vet tell you what her bg was? If money is an issue with her you may want to try to change her diet BEFORE starting insulin. Diet alone can make a BIG difference. What is she currently eating? Good for you for wanting to home test. That alone will help keep your cost down because if you have to rush her to the vet because of hypo it can be costly, but its also good because every so often you want to do a curve (test every 2 hrs) to see how her insulin works. A vet will do this for you BUT it will cost you, not to mention the stress it would put on you and your cat. Stress and infection raise bg.
 
Thanks, dirty bird.

well, she had been mostly on Friskies canned for months. After I realized it was better for weight loss. I've been trying to get her to lose weight for years - on dry food! She also had some urine crystals several months ago so we switched to Fireskies special diet which I now see is very low carb.
I bought a bag of Iam's senior health and started feeing that a lot because I got lazy with the canned food, and that's when I noticed all the peeing. From one 7 lb bag. It may have been a 3.5We're going to strict canned food now. Maybe I'll test for a few days and see.
I don't know if the Iams food caused it, or the canned food was just masking it, or what. She has no other symptoms, but her BG was 449 at the vet's office.

I think I'll go round up the test kit and give it a try. We just got home from a 3 day trip and she did eat a lot of dried food for a few days.

I want to do what is right for her but the money is a major issue. Hopefully this will get better soon.
 
Yup, been down the dry food road. I think most here have. I had Hidey on Blue buffalo Weight management, hoping he'd lose weight....he didn't just gained a diagnosis of diabetic. I never knew how bad it was until I read catinfo.org the information and images was a HUGE slap in the face.

If cost is a factor, I would say get rid of the dry COMPLETELY! Same with treats, most treats are not diabetic friendly. I keep yelling at my dad because he gives his cats handfuls of temptations. Most here feed freeze dried chicken as a treat. I do that but also boil chicken breasts to use for testing....which Hidey has stolen out of the pot several times! lol.

I would:

1. change to 100% wet food NO DRY, no treats except diabetic friendly.
2. start home testing to see where her numbers are, bg increases due to stress and infection.
3. start mini-meals (feeding a few small meals a day) this will help kick the pancreas in gear.

This way you can see if you can get her into remission without even using insulin. Also with the canned you may see weight-loss so keep an eye on the calories. I never payed attention to calories before and when I switched Hidey to 100% canned he was always hungry and I was worried why. Come to find out, and it makes A LOT of sense, that the dry was high calorie, high carb so when I switched him to the canned he wasnt getting enough calories. Although you make me take a second look at Hidey lol he's 14 lbs, down from 17 :shock: and he's acting like a kitten again at 13.
 
Removing the dry food may reduce the glucose 100 mg/dL.
Stress at the vet may elevate the glucose from 100 to 180 mg/dL.

So, if you're very lucky, sticking to a low carb diet and testing at home may show a low need for insulin and maybe only temporarily.

If you must go with Humulin N, note that it typically lasts 6 to 8 hours in the cat and good control may require dosing 3 times per day, at roughly 8 hour intervals. We have an entire primer on using it here

You'll want to prepare for the possibility of hypoglycemia which can be fatal. This is when the glucose level drops too low. Have on hand some high carb gravied food (ex Fancy Feast Gravy Lovers) some Karo syrup, an oral syringe, and the location of the nearest 24 hour emergency vet. ( if you prepare for it, you're much less likely to need it!) If the glucose number ever goes below 50 mg/dL, you should intervene to control that and keep your cat safe. See my signature link Glucometer Notes for more info on glucose numbers and what they mean.
 
What about Vetsulin? Would this be a better choice than Humulin N? From spending the whole day looking this stuff up. . . it looks like I could afford it, I found it for $40 for 400 units.
 
Vetsulin is similar to Humulin N, and was developed for dogs. It would be better than nothing, but not recommended.

What area do you live in? If you live near another member, maybe you could share insulin (split a 5-pack of pens)

I order Levemir from 77CanadaPharmacy.com, and it costs approx $125 including shipping. So each pen cartridge (300 units of insulin) costs about $25.

OH -- and you should start at a LOWER DOSE!!! This is important. Most cats need less than 3 Units of insulin, and to give that can cause HYPOglycemia, aka Low Blood Sugar. Please read up on how to treat it and have supplies on hand (karo syrup or high carb gravy food)
 
Larry and Kitties said:
Yes, I would ask for Lantus and I would get the 5 pack of 3 ml pens and use the syringe to draw the insulin from the pen. Be prepared for sticker shock, 5X3ml is well over $300. However, usually you can use up a pen before the insulin goes bad.
Click to expand...

With the pens, you should be able to use almost every drop of insulin. Depending on the dose, one package of pens will be enough insulin for 6 months or more. When my cat's were on 2 units, one package of pens would last over 9 months.

Also, if your vet prescribes either Lantus or Levemir, look on the manufacturer's website for discount coupons. They sometimes have a discount that will lower the cost to $25 per pen. That can save a lot of money.

With the Lantus and Levemir vials, because the dose we give to cats is so small compared to human doses, you will not be able to use all of the insulin before it becomes ineffective. Usually a vial will remain effective about 2-3 months. Even after 3 months, you still will have more than 1/2 of the insulin remaining that you have to throw out. That is why we suggest the pens instead. Because the pens are packaged in smaller amounts (you get 5 pens per package), you will be able to use almost every drop in each pen. So even though the initial cost is higher, over a year, it is actually cheaper to use the pens, even without the discount.
 
Just note that many caretakers found they could not use the coupons since they require an identification number that human doctors have but vets do not.
 
Wow. This is all so much to digest!
Thanks everyone! I'm in Newnan, Ga., just south of the ATL

A few more questions. . . .
So - how long can you use the pen? I saw something that said discard after 30 days. I'm guessing - y'all use them longer?
How long can you use the vial?

Is Lantus better than Levemir or are they pretty much equal? That 77Canda Pharmacy has some good prices! $198 for the Lantus! I want to make this work for the good insulin, I'm just not sure how to.

I've read all about treating the hypo! Scary!

Now if I could only find my BG kit. I would always run across it but now that I need it I can't find it!
 
You can use the insulin until it is no longer effective. Effectiveness is based on BG taken, usually at home using a human meter.
Typically you can use a up a three ml pen before it loses effectiveness. Not so for the 10 ml vial.
I just adopted Badger he was on 3 ml Lantus twice daily. He came with a 10 ml vial that was about 4/5 empty. It was no longer effective at all.
Lantus and Levemir are very similar with Levemir costing a little more. Some cats do better with Levemir, it is up to the cat. The one advantage with Levemir is that it stings less than Lantus but that is only important with high-dose cats like my MurrFee who is on 16 units Levemir twice daily.
Other caretakers have order it from a Canadian pharmacy. It may be shipped from overseas like Turkey.
 
The Lantus Manufacturer has changed the rules on the discount and state that it is no applicable for pet prescriptions. You might find a pharmacist who will do it for you anyway, but that is very rare. Some people have had better luck using the Levemir discount (which is what I use). Each pen costs only $25 (one pen per month). I called around and while most pharmacies wouldn't split up the Lantus 5-pack, they would split up the Levemir.
 
Wow. . I think I just get more overwhelmed!

Thanks for the discount card link, Kpassa. What do we put for the patient's name? Funky Skunky? Or do we use a more human name? ;-)

I'm so torn over the levemir or lantus. From what I can find it actually looks like Levemir is cheaper. Of course, I have no idea how many units we really need.

Somebody is selling a partilally used Lantus pen for $45 plus shipping and I'm tempted to buy that. . maybe she'll go into remission quickly! :roll:
 
Hi Sarah - I'm Donna with "Monkey Maine Coon", and also new to this site. I don't know where we would be without it! The folks on here are so knowledgeable and helpful - you will find all your answers here.

We are also on Humulin N - our cat was diagnosed with diabetes June 20 and that's what the vet put him on. We will be meeting with the vet this week to get him switched to something better - we're thinking of ProZinc.

I wonder if the reason we are started out as newbies on Humulin N might be because it is short acting (less chance of a hypo), and because it is readily available (Wal-Mart and many other places), and doesn't require a prescription.

I've been reading through your posts this morning, and I may have missed it - but I didn't see a reference to the wonderful spreadsheet link that is available for us to use. I don't remember exactly where I found it - but I'm sure someone will tell you. You use it to record your cats blood glucose (BG) readings, and it automatically color codes each entry so you (and otheres) can easily see how you are doing. I found out yesterday I can also add notes to each cell with details about each reading and things I want to remember.

You sound like a very dedicated kitty mom - I'm sure you will be successful.
 
I'm feeling like I'm going to go with Levemir, because it looks like it's a better value than Lantus with the discount card.
I'm getting a little nervous though on the levemir board seeing people giveing 1/10 of a unit, and drops, and such. Yikes.

I guess it's about time to call the vet and talk with him.
 
Skunky's Mom said:
I'm feeling like I'm going to go with Levemir, because it looks like it's a better value than Lantus with the discount card.
I'm getting a little nervous though on the levemir board seeing people giveing 1/10 of a unit, and drops, and such. Yikes.
Click to expand...

It's the same with Lantus: you give as much insulin as the kitty needs. Some kitties (usually those heading toward remission) require a very small amount of insulin, regardless of the type. Other kitties require a bit more. My Mikey, for example, is on 1.25u of Levemir.

Also, the Levemir board isn't very active and most Levemir users post in either Lantus TR or Relaxed Lantus since it works similarly to Lantus and many Levemir users started with Lantus first.
 
I just got a call back from my vet.

He's never used Lantus or Levemir. He said "they are the same thing one is just a trade name" I said "I think they're different" but didn't want to argue with him ;-)
He said "I just got finished researching it on a website."

So I've decided to go with the Lantus since I have found some. An old neighbor is going to give me some. I hope it is still good, and I'm going to buy some from this site. Even though the Levemir looks cheaper in the long run, reading about it is a little scary.

Anyway, i was surprised that my vet didn't know anything about these insulins. All he knows is humulin, vetsulin and PZI. But he's aggreable. He's been in practice a long time. The other vet in the practice is young, my doctor already retired from his practice but I guess he didn't want to stay retired. I wonder what the other doctor thinks. . .
 
Oh yeah, he said the starting dose was 1/4 unit per kilogram??

Which for my 14 lb fatty is 1.5 units, twice a day. I've read on here to go lower so maybe start with a half unit?
 
Your vet is mistaken.
Lantus = insulin glargine
Levemir = insulin detmir

Both are human insulins.
The Tight Regulation protocol developed with Lantus may be used with Levemir.
It was developed and published by Kirsten Roomp and Dr Janice Rand of the University of Queensland with the participation of the Diabetes Katzen internet group members.
 
The last relapse we had the ER vet used HumulinN to bring the glucose down quick. He tested at 589 after 8 months in remission. After that he was put back on Lantus and after six weeks Squeaker was back in remission.

Are you home testing glucose? That is a must to monitor glucose levels and recognize remission if it occurs or a subsequent relapse.

Anita and Squeaker
 
Hi Anita!

I decided to go with Lantus, found some on this site for a good price and started her at 1/2 unit yesterday. I'm thinking I'll need to up the dose but am waiting (per what I have read on the start low, go slow). My vet knew nothing about any of it but he was cool with it. I think we'll be "relaxed." It didn't take much reading on here to see that "tight regulation" isn't for us.

We test a lot. . . I'm afraid we're going to run out of ear space ;-). I don't think she'll like the food pad testing! I think I should be changing my lancet more often.

So far, so good. Except she's straight pigging out. She's been pretty much on wet food for a while, I don't understand why she is eating so much. Maybe it's the low-carb varieties.

She's certainly enjoying the extra snuggles.
 
We suggest a fresh lancet for each round of testing. The degradation of the sharp end is very quick.
 
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