newbie success and a question

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Violet and Chaos

Violet and Chaos

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Hi everyone,

I got my newbie kit in the mail today and you'll never guess- thanks to the thorough instructions on this site and the little rice sock included in my kit, I have successfully tested Chaos's BG today on the FIRST TRY! (I tested my own BG first to make sure I understood the meter and strips.) So the question I have is about his BG#. His PMPS was 161 (in the US; I'm a bit confused on the difference it makes). What does that say about his current dosage and food, just in general experience? He's on 2.5 units Lantus and a 50/50 mix of wet and dry foods.

Tomorrow I would like to start transitioning him to an all wet diet as well as start his spreadsheet. Would it be wise to reduce his dose as a matter of precaution when reducing the amount of dry food? ? I've read the regulation in 5 steps article and wondering what a good starting dose would be on an all-canned diet and how to handle it if his numbers are too high. He's been on insulin 11 months, so he's not newly diagnosed. just making some changes.
 
Fantastic, Violet. :RAHCAT :RAHCAT Welcome to the Vampire Club!

When in the cycle (how many hours after the shot) is 161? It is a nice number and if it is before your evening shot, we urge newbies not to shoot under 200, but to wait 30 minutes to see that the number is sure going up and is high enough to shoot.

What dose did you start with? That would help us figure out whether and how much you should reduce for the wet diet. It, of course, depends on the cat and Every Cat is Different. With Oliver, we switched from dry to wet and his numbers went down 100 points overnight. Because we were testing, we were able to adjust his dosage.

Also, you really should start posting on the Lantus support group forum. viewforum.php?f=9 They all use your insulin and can help you with dosage. They will want you to have a spreadsheet as Lantus is an insulin very driven by numbers. We have a wonderful template that is color coded and makes it easy to see patterns and changes. Setting up a spreadsheet It isn't hard to do, but if you need help, just ask.
 
Well, last night was beginner's luck, because he wasn't so easy this morning. I'm just going to keep trying and hope to find some treats he likes as well, to make it easier.

Chaos's starting dose was 1 unit when we started last year, and it was moved gradually up to 2.5, which is what he's been taking for the last 8 months or so. I did think 161 was high for his pmps, so I only shot him a token dose. Will be testing again soon to see what his numbers do.

I've been reading on the Lantus forum and trying to understand what others are doing and it's a bit like decoding a secret language at first. I'll have a better idea what's really going on when the 'shed' is depleted, from what I understand. Will be setting up my spreadsheet today, once DH goes to work and there is peace and quiet ;-) Am looking forward to seeing those numbers go down once he's on all wet food but am reluctant to take the dry food away yet. The fact that he's got insulin stored in his skin worries me a little.
 
The ears do seem to "learn" to bleed. You will get your routine down that works for you and Chaos (Wondering about the story behind the name, BTW :mrgreen: )

If you like, get the testing down so you are feeling really confident before you completely change food. Also, you can change a little at a time, mixing the wet and dry 1/2 and 1/2, then gradually changing to more wet than dry.

Lantus is different and does have some quirks. As soon as you get your spreadsheet up, post over there as a Newbie and they will give you lots of tips on how it works.
 
I hope the ears learn to bleed! right now he's got red marks on his ear where I pricked him, like blood under the skin. Is this bad? Did I not apply enough pressure after? He wasn't being cooperative so it was hard to keep him in hand once I had the blood sample. Should I switch to the other ear? I am hoping to get a reading soon to see where he's at but don't want to wreck his ears. I feel like some kind of cat terrorist.

Story behind Chaos's name, condensed: I got him as a 7 wk old kitten and had no clue what to call him. I was stumped for about a week, until one night when I was trying to sleep. He knocked over the trash, ran behind the bed and unplugged my alarm clock, then took all the socks out of the dirty laundry and put them in bed with me. I yelled at him to quit creating chaos. That was the moment, and the name stuck! He's always been sort of a spazzy little guy.

Will start my spreadsheet as soon as I have more than one number to put in it...sigh.
 
Ears on white cats do show up as redder than others. Just keep putting pressure on the ear for a few seconds after you poke. If it looks particularly bad, you can put neosporin on it - with or without pain reliever. Yes, you can use both ears. Sometimes one bleeds better than the other. We wrapped Oliver in a towel with only his head showing until he got used to the poking - kept him in one place. And if you get a drop and he pulls away, you can always put it on your fingernail to test it. Don't feel like a terrorist - you are literally saving his life - even if he doesn't appreciate it at the moment.

Love the story - figure it had something to do with a chaotic situation :mrgreen:
 
Holy cow! I think the vet's recommended dose is too high! **I haven't changed his diet yet.** Because my AMPS was so low (161) I only gave him 1 unit lantus instead of his usual 2.5 and my +3 reading (after grazing on a wet/dry mix as usual) was 68 mg/dl!! I understand this is very close to low numbers (but no symptoms, behaving just fine) so I fed him some more and will re-test in a little while. There is always the possibility that the meter was wrong, but it normally gives me an error message when the sample is too small. He ate and is busy grooming himself next to me, so all seems to be ok for right now. I managed to put pressure on his ear this time and there's no mark where I pricked him- progress!

His BG must go way up at the vet when he goes there for curves. He gets highly stressed in the car and at the vet. I suppose my vet must have based her dosages on her curves, not knowing how truly freaked out Chaos is at the time. I will keep metering him but I don't think he'll be getting a shot this evening based on what I see so far.

Could he have been living in a slightly hypoglycemic state with no symptoms for all this time? I've been giving him 2.5 units since early summer. He does the 5 P's like it's his job- in fact he was cracking me up last night chasing his laser pointer up the wall.
 
Sounds like you are really getting a good handle on Chaos dose and food. Its amazing what power the knowledge of his numbers gives you to manage his disease.

Yes, stress causes many cats numbers to go very high, although there is at least one cat on here who drops. My vet got me testing within a week or two because she said that tests at the clinic were not useful. We talk on the phone every 10 - 14 days about his general health and I email her the numbers regularly.
 
His +6 BG was 78, so I guess he's not doing bad at all. I'm still learning what good numbers are and when to expect them to go up and down. Chaos's numbers have barely budged all day- is that good? It's such a relief to see so many people who have similar problems with testing at the vet's. Up to this point, I was going mostly on my observations, how he acted, etc. to decide whether there were problems. He's responded really well to treatment using dry food up to this point so my hopes are high for his transition to wet food over the next few weeks.
 
When lantus gets to working really well at a good dose you will see a shallow curve with not a lot of drop. It works off of a shed, so don't be scared about that idea. It needs the shed to work - I can't explain it scientifically to you though. BUT, because this is your first cycle at the reduced dose, it means that Chaos has the shed for 2.5u and will take a day or so for the shed to deplete a little bit down to a 1u dose shed, if that makes sense. So you won't see the true effect of a 1u dose for another 2 cycles I'd say.

Definitely keep testing if you plan on switching all to wet food now. Wet food is much lower in carbs, and most people see a good drop in how much insulin their cat needs after switching.
 
Thanks, Kelly. If I understand you correctly, if the 1.5 u dose is too low, I should see higher numbers in the next 2-3 cycles. If 1.5 is good, then I should see a shallow curve with numbers closer to normal range for the majority of the time. Am I interpreting it correctly?
 
You are correct. You will see higher numbers with the 1.5u dose if it isn't enough insulin. What you will gauge the dose on is where the lowest point in the cycle is. Too high = small increase. Too low = small decrease. Fine tuning the dose is done gradually and usually at 0.25u increments. The 1.5u is pretty much a "start over" dose, so I would recommend all dosing changes from here on out be only 0.25u at a time since our kitties can have dramatic differences with such a small change in their dose. There are stickies at the top of the Lantus forum that outline the Tilly Protocol. That will give you clear cut numbers for dose increases and decreases, and how long to hold each dose before considering increasing the dose.
 
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