newbie stuggling a little (uk england)

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anna and bailey.uk england

anna and bailey.uk england

Member Since 2014
hi there,ive come across this site and thought itd give me a little support.
my cat was diagnosed with diabetes in November and ive made sure ive learnt so much to help my gorgeous boy.the vet here I England have been AMAZING and so supportive.unfortunately my vets struggle to deal with my boy in the vets as hes a house cat and is TERRIFIED of anything outside of my flat and the vets visits are so traumatic for him that barr the fructosimine test once every 3 months,where he has to be sedated for the procedure as he gets so aggressive with the vet through fear that I have to do everything myself at home so its been a struggle.
he has learnt to trust me so much.the blood testing and the 2 insulin jabs a day has becomes our way of life.hes currently just been changed to lantus glygine after being on cansulin.they changed the cansulin as the last fructosimine test showed that it had inceased from the previous.his blood readings and curves were all over the place at this point and his little back legs are weakened which I know is a sure sign his diabetes isn't under control.hes only been on lantus for 6 days and weve been upping it unit by unit with 3 blood tests a day to keep a close monitor on it.were currently up to 3 units and his blood sugars have remained at constant 19 the last couple of days.whether that be just before injection or the peak of the insulin.is this normal or should there be a curve with this insulin? we know he'll need more units but just doing it gradually.
Its tough and I do so worry about him.hes only 8 and my baby.i just hope we can get to a point where hes stabilized.its good to know theres a site like this where I can learn more :-D
 
Re: newbie stuggling a little

You've come to the right place! These guys are AMAZINGLY supportive and helpful! I'm sure others will chime in re: the lantus. My kitty quickly became diet controlled... so I dont have a ton of insulin expertise to offer. I do know that Lantus is a depot insulin though, so it takes a few days to build up in the system. Be careful with upping the dosage too soon.

There is a Lantus-specific section in this forum - you might try posting in there as well for concerns relating directly to that.

Good luck to you and your sugarboy!
 
Re: newbie stuggling a little

Welcome to FDMB.

Lantus is a great insulin, however you are changing the dose too fast and by too much at a time to identify a good one. The effects build up over 3 days when you change the dose, so at this point, just hold right where you are and wait.

How are you testing his glucose - urine or blood? If blood testing, what kind of meter are you using?

We strongly encourage feeding a low carb, canned or raw food. Switching can drop the glucose 100 mg/dL so you must be blood testing to do it safely.

Go to your first post, click on the Edit button, and add 'In England' to get the eyes of some other UK folks. Here's info on food for international users.
 
Re: newbie stuggling a little

Hi and welcome to the message board. Would you please tell us your first name and your kitties name?

I'm Deb and that tuxedo pictured here is my sugardude Wink.

What was the dose of Caninsulin your kitty was on?

Please, you need to be patient and hold the dose steady for now, as BJM said.

What dose of Lantus did you start with?

Lantus dose changes are based on the nadir or low point, which is usually somewhere in the +5 to +7 hour range for most cats.

Do you test before each insulin shot?
 
Re: newbie stuggling a little

hi there,thanks guys.yeah im testing before each insulin jab and at the mid time.im using alpha trak 2 which is great.i cant believe weve both got used to it so fast as I was terrified at first of hurting him but now ivee learnt that his ears need to be warm.its all good.im blood testing not urine testing.

that's good to know about upping the lantus quickly! we started on 2 units anyway as my boy was on 6 units of cansulin which was obviously not working.he seems more settled tonight with less drinking as the reading was 15.1 before jab which is better than it has been for a while as its been in the 20's which is waaaaay too high!!!.i expect it to be a long hard slog but hes worth it ;-)

the vet thas prescribed diabetic dry food now and I know as you all take a huge gasp.......its not great! he will not eat wet food AT ALL.weve tried 3 different varieties of royal canin and he went 2 days without eating so had to stop insulin for those days.i then started feeding him fresh chicken breast but I cant sustain that and the vet said he isn't getting all the nutrients he needs.oooo its so difficult but as advised by the vet I feed him at the 2 insulin times and then 6 hours after bother.hes a big boy 6.7 kg although has lost a little with the diabetes so he needs his grub!!!

thankyou again.i feel so much better that theres people out there dealing with this.i think sometimes people who haven't got fur babies don't really understand!!!
oh and im anna and my puddy cat is Bailey!
 
Re: newbie stuggling a little

Welcome Anna and puddy tat Bailey!

When a cat has been on another insulin and you switch to a different insulin, you do need to take the dose for the previous insulin into consideration. So, going from 6U of Caninsulin down to 3U of Lantus is a good place to start.

I would suggest you hold that dose for now for a minimum of 3-5 days to let the depot fill. If he drops <80 mg/dL (4.4 mmoL), then it's an immediate reduction of 0.25U. We have different reference ranges for human vs pet glucometers and you said you are using an Alphatrak for testing so that 80 gives you a safety margin and the opportunity to feed higher carb food/syrup to bring the numbers back up to a safer range.

I suggest you go over to the Lantus TR forum here, and read the starred Stickies at the top of the forum to get some background on Lantus use, the TR protocol, what the Depot is, etc.

We'll be rooting for Bailey to feel better and get regulated now that he's on the Lantus.
 
thankyou means soooo much!
im in daily contact with the vet (because shes not been able to do the tests herself,and so to stop him being so very stressed)shes so supportive !! hes been on 3 units of lantus for 3 days now with daily readings so shes said to see what his bloods are Saturday then we can up it then or not.which by then will have been 5 days.im learning every day in the hope (and kindve knowing) that my boy is getting better!!im so glad ive got my alpha trak 2 down to a fine art.it means I know hes safe if im checking just before the insulin jab.its a god send really.
its good to know people understand!
 
You've got a lot on your plate, but when things calm down a bit, you might find it helpful to do some behavior modification with him, to make it less stressful for him to travel anywhere, much less the vet.

Step 1 is just to leave the open carrier around in the living areas, with a nice blanket or towel in it, and a toy he likes or some catnip in it.
 
Hello from Surrey, and welcome! :smile:

It sounds like you're doing a great job already. So please do try and be patient with yourself.
As others have said, Lantus is a very different insulin to Caninsulin and works differently. But there are lots of experienced Lantus users here so you've come to THE best place on the planet for advice about that.

Couple of things:
Firstly, regarding the food, if your cat will eat chicken breast (is he eating that raw or cooked?) then it seems likely that he might be able to transition to wet food in time. It could be worth adding a supplementary chicken based wet food to his diet as a treat to get him used to that (something like Cosma chicken in jelly or Porta 21 chicken varieties (both available online from Zooplus and other places)), or a poultry-based complete raw food ('Natural Instinct' makes complete raw food which comes frozen to be defrosted as necessary). You can also buy a supplement that you can add to plain raw boneless meat to make it a complete food (Felini Complete, I think it's called; again, available from Zooplus). However, as I understand it, you can feed around 20% of the diet as plain meat as long as the rest of the cat's diet is 'complete'. Oh, or you could try a few little tins of Thive complete chicken food which is available in some supermarkets (in tiny tins at silly-money prices, but it might be worth it to experiment a bit....)

Secondly, the Alphatrak is a great meter but the test strips are hugely pricey. So, most of us use meters that are made for humans. If you wish I could send you one of my meters (I have a few 'in store' in case any UK folks need one). It would be a One Touch Ultra and the test strips are usually available on Ebay for around half the RRP (I can often get them for around £12 -£13 for a box of 50 strips). Just let me know if you'd like a meter/kit and I'll pop one in the post to you. Even if you decide not to use it all the time it can be handy to have a back-up meter.

I would have written in much more detail about UK cat food but have to dash out. Sorry if my info is a bit garbled! :roll:

Eliz
 
Hi Anna and welcome from another UKer. There aren't many of us here, but don't worry, the basic principles are the same everywhere, it's on specifics like type of food and what insulins are available that you might need info from UK people.

Have to say you are already doing a great job by testing Bailey, that's the main big challenge overcome, well done you!

I don't have a lot more to add for the moment, but do keep posting here as often as you need, no question too small. We have all been where you are now and can attest to the power of this board for supporting you all the way!

Good luck
Diana
 
Good morning Anna,I am so glad you found this amazing forum.
I cannot give you advise on insulin as I have only been with the forum for a few months,but the knowledge and support that I have received has been invaluable,anything else other than insulin dosing I would be happy to help you out with.
What a coincidence,my boy is called Bailey,and I live in Southport,where are you? Diane & Bailey
 
hi im in crossen and with just cats vets.theyre amazing.the vet has rung me this morning to see how yesterday went.were not upping the insulin just yet as his reading was 8.7 before the jab so obviously have to be very careful but I will test again later.i even come home on my lunch hours just to make sure hes ok.the things we do!!!!!the vet is pleased we seem to have found an insulin that's showing some progress as before we weren't getting anywhere.you feel helpless sometimes.this has all stemmed from another incompetent vet who has basically put him on high carb dry food for all these years to treat cystitis but never really followed up whether he suffers long term with cystitis because they couldn't cope with him at the vets.my new vet has obviously done all the checks for this before any of this started.

im feeding him cooked chicken but he doesn't have it all.i spread it over a few feeds but each time I mix it with his diabetic dry food.i will definitely try with some of the foods you guys have listed on here.its got to be worth a try!!!

he actually sleeps in his pet carrier as its quite large and has cuddly blankets in but even when he escapes outside (and that has only happened twice in the 8 years of me having him) he just freezes and hides under my car for 5 hours but then gets so aggressive even with me ,and I couldn't get him back in, because hes terrified of the outside world.ive also tried felliway before he goes into the vet but it doesnt seem to make a difference. ive never had a cat before this so its all been a HUGE learning curve!
whatever we have to deal with,we wouldn't be without our fur babies would we :-D
 
Hi Anna,
I have some very good food for diabetic cats that I am not using,do you want to get in touch with me by email or phone and I can pass it on to you? If you do I don't know how the forum advises we do this,I have noticed people doing this on the forum,maybe one of the experienced members (if they are reading this) can advise.
Have you been using Svenia at Just Cats?
 
do you want to get in touch with me by email or phone and I can pass it on to you? If you do I don't know how the forum advises we do this,I have noticed people doing this on the forum,maybe one of the experienced members (if they are reading this) can advise.
Click to expand...

If you 2 would PM (private message) each other, with any personal information that would work well.

Go to the top of the page, select New Messages just to the right of the User Control Panel, and write a NewPM.

We just don't want you to get bombarded with junk mail or phone calls from telemarketers, so it's good to keep stuff like your email address and phone number private in those PM's. Only the recipients have access to any information that is sent by PM.
 
Anna, I have left a message for you in your PM box.
Deb, thankyou so much for the info and instructions,much appreciated, I learn something new every day!

Diane
 
Hi Anna!

I'm another UKer too.

Sounds like you have got to grips with this diabetes malarkey quite well already! If you are hometesting then that's half the first hurdle out of the way. Nice one!

it looks as if he's responding to the lantus too, which is very good news.

I would take up Eliz's kind offer of a cheaper testing kit if I were you. Test strips can really drain the bank balance.

The next step to think about would be to transition him to a low carb wet diet & take him off the dry stuff altogether. There are plenty of reasonably priced wet food suitable for diabetic kitties (and 'normal' ones too!) available in the UK that you can easily pick up at the supermarket or pet shop.

Have a look at the link in my signature for a list of foods available in the UK? Some are cheap, some are posh, but they are all good for Bailey!

If he eats fewer carbs, then he will likely require less insulin to regulate his blood glucose.

You've found the right place.

Welcome.

Juliet
 
Regarding low carb wet food... I know it seems impossible at first... but these guys are right. My Tink REFUSED to touch wet food at first. I tried over a dozen foods before finding one he'd eat, and due to my own personal opinions on pet food quality, I'm spending WAY too much on cat food... In any case, despite him being a "dry food addict" when he was diagnosed as diabetic, following the advice of these good folks, I was able to get him eating wet food. The only "crunch" he gets now is his freeze dried (pure meat) treat at testing time. It took time and A LOT OF patience :roll: , but he's actually been able to come off insulin completely! Obviously this does not happen for every cat, but do watch the insulin dosage and his nadir closely during the transition.
 
i know hes supposed to be on wet food but i worry about the transition as the royal canin diabetic dry food hes persribed was because he used to suffer with strauvite crystals when he was younger and it does stop that so i think the vet is just worried that this could complicate that by putting him on wet food.its what to do for the best.its such a worry! i just hope we can regulate him eventually.its still all abit daunting at the moment.im a natural worrier anyway,so that doesn't help things!
 
Water helps keep the urine dilute enough that crystals don't form; this makes wet food a superior choice over dry for a cat prone to crystals.

More info on this at Cat Info.
 
Hi,

I'm pretty sure that another UK'er here had a similar issue to the one that you have: She had reservations about taking her cat off dry food because it had been prescribed for urinary crystal problems. In fact, as far as I recall, the cat did transition to wet food and did not suffer problems with crystals following the food change. I can't think which UK member that was at the moment, but maybe she will see your posts and chime in.

As BJ says, wet food is very beneficial to cats with crystal problems. And I have no idea why vets continue to prescribe dry food in some of these cases.... :? A US vet, Dr Lisa Pierson, has extensive knowledge of cats and of feline diet, and I'm sure I've seen her write (either in a post here or on her own website) that, regarding crystals, "The solution to pollution is dilution."

I do fully understand that it can be difficult to go against what our own vets say. Many of us here have been faced with such predicaments, and I do sympathise. We all want to do what is best for our own cats but sometimes it is very hard to know which course of action is actually the 'right' one. Whatever choice/s you make please remind yourself that you do love your cat and are doing the very best you can for him.

Big reassuring (((hug))) for you,

Eliz
 
It may be helpful if you could list some of the home tests you've done:
We list them like this:
AMPS - am or morning pre-shot
+# - any test taken # hours after shot
Ex
+5 - any test taken 5 hours after shot
+7 - any test taken 7 hours after shot
PMPS - pm or evening pre-shot

We use the +# hour format, as we live in multiple time zones and decisions are made based on how long it has been since the shot.

Once you give a listing, I can help you set up a spreadsheet - its really just a grid format for recording your test numbers.
 
ive manage to find a spread sheet on google as diane and bailey suggested and ive filled it out but I don't know how to get it on here :-( im os rubbish at computers.can someone help
 
Part 1:
In Google Docs, while viewing your spreadsheet, you'll do a File, Share.
A dialog panel will pop up and provide the link to use in allowing viewing access only. It will also let you adjust the viewing rights if you want someone else to be able to edit, too.
You copy that link.

Temporarily, paste the link you copied in a Word or text document and save it where you can find it again. This is just to make sure you've got it someplace you can find it again easily if you need it.
 
Part 2:
Here on FDMB, at the top of the page, click on User Control Panel.
At the top are several tabs.
Click on the 2nd tab which says Profile.
On the left side is a list of options; select Edit Signature.
The screen will display a rectangular box where you can put the link to your spreadsheet.
Put your cursor where you want to put the link to your spreadsheet.
Paste it in.
Now highlight the entire link (its long).
After you highlight it, at the top is a button which says URL. Click that button.
Now it is a hyperlink.
Click Submit.
 
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