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Crystal & Leo

Crystal & Leo

Member Since 2017
Hello all!

My kitty was diagnosed with diabetes shortly after I rescued him about 2 years ago. I bought an alpha track monitor to keep up with his levels but sometimes I have to poke his ear multiple times in the same spot to draw enough blood. The vet wants me to bring him in each time to double check his levels but it is very costly. I would like to be able to check and lower/raise doses at home if I could. He has been eating sensitive stomach dry hills science diet as suggested by the vet. He gets diarrhea very easily so it's hard to find food. The vet has also discouraged me from buying insulin and needles from outside the vet saying it will cost more. Not sure if this is true but if I could find a cheaper source that would be great!

Overall, I haven't had the best experience with my vet after being told different things. I was sent home with needles that were a little different than what I was using before and found out from the internet that the dosing was completely different for those needles and I had been giving him only half of what he needed! Maybe it is time to change vets after reading he should be on wet when they told me to feed him dry. I know it's been a while but I'm feeling hopeless about getting help for my cat especially now that I've become so attached.
 
There is lots of support on here. I had a bad experience with my vet and went it on my own with the support of the people on here. Share what type of insulin. Dosage and I use a spreadsheet to track Charlies progress.
 
Welcome to the FDMB!!....this truly is the best place you never wanted to be!

We hear horror stories all the time about vets here, but you're in the right place now. The people here have years of real life experience in dealing with this disease as well as the time to stay up to date on treatments (something most vets don't have the time or interest to do)

We can also help you stretch a nickel into a dollar! We use human meters like the Relion Confirm or Micro from WalMart (if you live in the US) ...they take the tiniest sample size and the strips are affordable ($36/100)

We know the best places to buy insulin too, but it sounds like you may have problems getting a script from your vet...may be time to find a new one if he refuses (although they are supposed to give you a written script if you ask). Where to buy it will depend on which insulin you're using.

My own cat hasn't been back to the vet for her diabetes since we got our script for Lantus insulin.....the people here live and breathe this disease and know more than the vast majority of vets do. Most vets may see a handful of diabetic cats in their entire career.

The "Prescription" foods aren't necessary and are too high in carbs for a diabetic cat (they also have lousy ingredients) Most of us feed Fancy Feast Classics, Friskies pates or 9-Lives ground

First, a few questions though:

What's your kitty's name? I'm guessing that your name is Crystal? Where do you live? Which insulin are you using currently?
 
Thank you for the warm welcome!

My cats name is Leo and we live in Tallahassee Florida. He is currently on Vetsulin, 5 units twice daily.

I'm very relieved to hear that it doesn't have to be expensive...A little backstory: I rescued him from a neighborhood and he seemed healthy, he wasn't overweight or anything. It wasn't but about 2 or 3 months later that he started losing so much weight and quick. He had completely liquid diarrhea and nothing seemed to help. The vet told me he had diabetes and I got a little emotional realizing I might not be able to afford or even handle taking care of a sick cat. (I was just looking for a new companion after my beloved baby was tragically run over.)

I asked them if they knew anybody that would adopt him and care for him and they contacted an organization that offered to pay for his medicine as long as they had funds. I was very grateful for this but eventually had to come up with money on my own after they could no longer help.

The vet has given me very little information on how to keep up with his glucose levels and has sent me home with about 4 different types of syringes. I'm going to try and take him to a different vet in the morning because I can tell he isn't feeling well even now. He sleeps a lot and seems like he never has energy.

Since he's been diagnosed, the frequent urination and excessive thirst haven't gotten better it seems.
 
5U is a pretty huge dose!! He's probably still alive because of the high carb food you've been feeding!

Vetsulin isn't one of the better insulins for cats...it's used much more successfully in dogs (and a lot of vets tend to treat their cats like small dogs so they use the same insulin)...it tends to take them down fast and then wear off before it's time for the next shot. Now we have had a few people who'd had success with it, but the better choices are Lantus, Levemir or ProZinc.

Call around to other vets in your area and tell them you'd like to talk to the vet about how they treat their diabetic cats (don't expect them to call until after office hours though)....Find out what kind of insulin is their "go to" to start with. Are they willing to change if the patient doesn't seem to do well on that insulin? If they don't mention it, you bring up that you've been doing some research and you'd like to know how they feel about using Lantus or Levemir.....if you can find a vet that's willing to work with you instead of dictate TO you, that's the best you can do

Find out what kinds of food they suggest for their diabetic cats....Most are going to try to sell you some of that garbage Hiils prescription diet junk so they can name a few more moneys off of you

If you can get a script for Lantus, you can mail, fax, or even just take a picture of your script to send to Marks Marine Pharmacy in British Columbia....Here's the Information on buying insulin in Canada.....a 5 pack of Lantus pens is $149.99 plus $25 and will last most cats at least 2 years,
 
Update your signature with all of your cat's info and start a spreadsheet. The people here are awesome and will get your kitty feeling better soon! Good luck with everything!
 
Welcome, Crystal! Chris has given you great info and w:)e can certainly help you to help your kitty. Make a list of questions and post here. We'll try to answer them. No question is a stupid question.
 
Thank you everyone.

I have messaged a different vet about food and insulin choices and I'm waiting to hear back. Meanwhile I had to get more Vetsulin and syringes because he is almost completely out.

I just checked his glucose at 9:37 and it said 288. He usually gets his injections at 11. I had to prick his ear 3 different times to get enough blood. :(

I wanted to go ahead and try some fancy feast food but I'm worried it will give him diarrhea like he had 2 years ago.

The vet just responded as I was typing this (that was quick.)

"We do have alternatives however not all are compatible with each cat and since you have started Vetsulin best to speak with one of our vets on another choice. We like purina DM dry and canned. Best to find the lowest carb diet for your pet. Please call any time and we can schedule an appointment for you to speak with a vet if needed."

Maybe I should switch to this vet?
 
CrystalAB said:
Thank you everyone.

I have messaged a different vet about food and insulin choices and I'm waiting to hear back. Meanwhile I had to get more Vetsulin and syringes because he is almost completely out.

I just checked his glucose at 9:37 and it said 288. He usually gets his injections at 11. I had to prick his ear 3 different times to get enough blood. :(

I wanted to go ahead and try some fancy feast food but I'm worried it will give him diarrhea like he had 2 years ago.

The vet just responded as I was typing this (that was quick.)

"We do have alternatives however not all are compatible with each cat and since you have started Vetsulin best to speak with one of our vets on another choice. We like purina DM dry and canned. Best to find the lowest carb diet for your pet. Please call any time and we can schedule an appointment for you to speak with a vet if needed."

Maybe I should switch to this vet?
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Try to slowly blend ind more Fancy Feast to his normal food so he won't notice as much and it will give his stomach time to adjust.

Purina DM is too high in carbs and you should try to do wet only if possible. I finally got my cat on wet food but it took 2-3 weeks. My vet also recommended the dry DM and it is about 18% carbs. You want to stay at 10% or less but preferably 5-7% is even better and shows the best success in getting a cat in remission.
 
Hi, welcome to FDMB is really a great place.

Regarding the testing if you try warming up his ear before poking him it helps a lot, what I do is I warm a small piece of wet cloth in the microwave, and I put it in a plastic bag, then I press his ear against it for a few moments (usually what it takes for the metter to beep signaling that is ready) and then poke.
 
CrystalAB said:
Thank you everyone.

I have messaged a different vet about food and insulin choices and I'm waiting to hear back. Meanwhile I had to get more Vetsulin and syringes because he is almost completely out.

I just checked his glucose at 9:37 and it said 288. He usually gets his injections at 11. I had to prick his ear 3 different times to get enough blood. :(

I wanted to go ahead and try some fancy feast food but I'm worried it will give him diarrhea like he had 2 years ago.

The vet just responded as I was typing this (that was quick.)

"We do have alternatives however not all are compatible with each cat and since you have started Vetsulin best to speak with one of our vets on another choice. We like purina DM dry and canned. Best to find the lowest carb diet for your pet. Please call any time and we can schedule an appointment for you to speak with a vet if needed."

Maybe I should switch to this vet?
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Are you testing in the right spot?

IMG_3612.JPG

Do you massage it first?
 
CrystalAB said:
"We do have alternatives however not all are compatible with each cat and since you have started Vetsulin best to speak with one of our vets on another choice
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I have a feeling this was probably a vet tech calling, not an actual vet.....why would a vet tell you to "speak with one of our vets"?......When calling new places, it's important to ask for the VET to call you back and that you understand it may be after hours before they have time. Also, why would a vet tell you to "Please call any time and we can schedule an appointment for you to speak with a vet if needed."...if it was an actual vet that spoke to you, I'd think they'd say something like "We'd be happy to see your cat if you'd like to make an appointment"


At least this one seems open to other choices....might be worth a call back and just say something like "I've been doing some research that says Lantus (or Levemir or ProZinc....pick one) seems to be a good insulin for cats.. Is that one you are familiar with"?

CrystalAB said:
We like purina DM dry and canned. Best to find the lowest carb diet for your pet
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Of course they do....they make a tidy little profit selling that stuff, but the dry is too high in carbs and the wet, while better than dry, is too expensive considering the ingredients they use. There's nothing special about prescription food except the price. Here's a good article on the truth about "prescription" foods . If you want to pay that much for cat food, there are MUCH better choices, but if you're like most of us, affordability comes into the picture too.

Here's a FOOD CHART made up by a veterinarian that specializes in feline nutrition. Anything under 10% carbs is fine....Price is up to you

CrystalAB said:
Best to find the lowest carb diet for your pet
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Now this I agree with mostly!!! As long as it's under 10%, it doesn't need to be the lowest....some cats do better with a few carbs versus zero carbs
 
IMG_0224.JPG


Quick update: Sorry for the confusion, when I said vet I just meant the vets office, not the actual doctor. :/

I checked his blood glucose right before injection time and it was 288, then again before his second one and it was 368.

Have any of you ever adjusted his dose at home according to your home monitor without consulting with your vet? My biggest issue right now is that since he's been so hard to regulate, they want me to bring him in every couple of weeks or so but I really can't afford it. I have to get financial help with the insulin and needles right now as it is.

Also; I picked up some fancy feast on the way home from work and mixed a little into his dry food.
 
CrystalAB said:
Have any of you ever adjusted his dose at home according to your home monitor without consulting with your vet?
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China hasn't seen a vet for her diabetes since we first got our script for Lantus.....the people here have a lot of real life experience and if you post daily, they can help guide you.

You will want to get your Signature set up and start keeping track of your test results on our spreadsheet though. We really depend on seeing that spreadsheet before making any suggestions on changing dose

Here are Instructions on setting up the FDMB spreadsheet...if you have problems, feel free to contact me and I can set it up for you. Just click on my name and choose "Start Conversation" to send a private message.

To fill out your Signature, go to the top right and click on your sign on name....a drop down menu will come up ....choose "Signature". A new box will pop up for you to enter information like:

Your name/Cats name, age, sex, date of diagnosis, type of insulin, type of meter, type of food, any other health problems? and a general location. Click "save" and you're done! When you get your spreadsheet link, you'd add that to your signature too. Having the signature filled out keeps us from having to ask the same questions over and over again
 
CrystalAB said:
View attachment 29645

Quick update: Sorry for the confusion, when I said vet I just meant the vets office, not the actual doctor. :/

I checked his blood glucose right before injection time and it was 288, then again before his second one and it was 368.

Have any of you ever adjusted his dose at home according to your home monitor without consulting with your vet? My biggest issue right now is that since he's been so hard to regulate, they want me to bring him in every couple of weeks or so but I really can't afford it. I have to get financial help with the insulin and needles right now as it is.

Also; I picked up some fancy feast on the way home from work and mixed a little into his dry food.
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Good job getting those tests in. Once I started testing at home frequently I didn't bring my cat physically into the vet office again. I just emailed her the spreadsheet and she told me what she thought. Sometimes she would give me dosing suggestions.... Sometimes I would tell her my strategy and she'd say sounds good. Once I got good at adjusting dosing myself it was really just to show her how well my cat was doing.


Stay low, 1 or 2 units, get lots of readings both preshot and mid cycle, and then we can give you more advice on how we would suggest you dose.
 
CrystalAB said:
View attachment 29645

Quick update: Sorry for the confusion, when I said vet I just meant the vets office, not the actual doctor. :/

I checked his blood glucose right before injection time and it was 288, then again before his second one and it was 368.

Have any of you ever adjusted his dose at home according to your home monitor without consulting with your vet? My biggest issue right now is that since he's been so hard to regulate, they want me to bring him in every couple of weeks or so but I really can't afford it. I have to get financial help with the insulin and needles right now as it is.

Also; I picked up some fancy feast on the way home from work and mixed a little into his dry food.
Click to expand...
We come to FDMB to learn as much as we can to be able to treat our kitty at home. That includes BG testing, deciding on insulin dose, even deciding when a different insulin might be needed. Many of us don't consult the vet about the diabetes treatment at all - maybe a casual conversation when we take kitty there for some other reason. You can do this - and save a lot of money! :)
 
CrystalAB said:
Have any of you ever adjusted his dose at home according to your home monitor without consulting with your vet? My biggest issue right now is that since he's been so hard to regulate, they want me to bring him in every couple of weeks or so but I really can't afford it. I have to get financial help with the insulin and needles right now as it is.
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I adjusted Babu's dose at home all the time with the help of some very very nice people here, I just spoke with the vet once in a while and the conversations went something like "How is he doing? Ok How are his numbers? More o less ok" until I just called him and told him Babu was OTJ, he deals with Babu's other issues though and is a pretty good vet (not very knowledgeable about diabetes though)

Babu was a really hard kitty to regulate a diver and a bouncer till the last shoot of insulin so taking him to the vet wouldn't really help much since the sample they would take could be a dive or in the middle of a bounce, which made it not very representative plus Babu would get seriously stressed ( He measured up to 150 more at the vet once) all of that made my results at home much more reliable since they were taken every day and I had in the SS all the history
 
Hi Crystal!
Leo is beautiful!

First, you are doing a good job! Figuring out how to get here and that you should test at home is sometimes a big jump for cat parents. Then to realize you don't really trust the advice your vet is giving... that's a bit terrifying.
But you made it here, and you have a meter.
5 units is crazy high to me, and like others said, your high carb food may be compensating. So before any changes are made to dosing and food, make sure you get really good at home testing. JanetNJ who commented above with the ear diagram - she has a video in her signature that includes the best tips on testing and she shows you how she does it. I do ours like she showed in her video and we never have any issue.
Since you mentioned cost, your meter is a great meter, but the test strips are very expensive. I use the human meter, ReliOn Prime from Walmart. (Meter was $15) and the test strips cost 1/4 of the price of yours. It might be worth it to change to a cheaper meter.
About switching vet's. With a diabetic cat I interview the vet before I go because initial consultations are expensive and I don't need to drag my kitty everywhere just to find a good fit, now that I know info from this board. My biggest concern is are they going to be a partner in how I choose to care for Fabby, or are they a micromanager? I ask if they have experience with many diabetic cats (they always say yes, but I ask in case they go into details). I ask if they are supportive of home glucose testing. (The only right answer here is yes. Bonus points if they add a statement like, "that's preferable because we don't get accurate numbers here at the vet due to stress".) I don't ask about recommended diet because I've learned what I need from Dr. Lisa's list, and don't need help finding low carb food. I also don't ask about insulin brand. There are many of us here on Vetsulin. The point of insulin is management. With your vet bumping yours up so high and without food therapy, well, I can't imagine any insulin works well under that kind of care.

I'm not any sort of diabetes expert here, as I've only got 2 months of being here, so maybe someone with more experience can chime in... but I have not read anywhere that diarrhea is a symptom of diabetes.
That tells me a few things, but the biggest one is you currently seem to have it managed by food. Perhaps whatever it was ran it's course and wouldn't come back by changing to a better food? The prescription foods are crap, filled with crap ingredients. Read the label. They are pretty horrible (I've got 2 on prescription food for other issues as I say this...) and I understand your hesitation in making other issues worse for Leo. If the diarrhea does come back as you are slowly transitioning to a low carb food you can definitely ask questions here, but having a good relationship with a new vet would come in very handy.

So again, you're doing good! Hang in there! Check out what other people's spreadsheets look like and get yours set up. Come on over to the Vetsulin page and the good folks there can help better with changing the dose and how that specific insulin works once you have some info available on your spreadsheet.

And because diet change may make a big difference in glucose and the insulin make sure you have read through the info on kitties going hypo just in case you should ever need it. (I hope not, but it's better to be prepared.)

Welcome!
 
Wow...I have a LOT to learn.

Here I was under the impression that a "curve" could only be done at a vets office. Thank you all for the helpful information. I am getting more comfortable with checking his blood glucose but will need to invest in more test strips soon to check every 2 hours.

I'm about to take a look at the spreadsheet on my laptop and see if I can figure it out.

My most recent check about 15 mins ago was 131 which would be 6 hours after his first injection for the day. No major changes in stool since feeding him FF last night (yet.)

Will continue to update once I get this spreadsheet figured out. :)
 
CrystalAB said:
Have any of you ever adjusted his dose at home according to your home monitor without consulting with your vet?
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After first curve sent to a Vet and she wanted to increase by a whole unit, I've never consulted a Vet again for a dose change. Even with finding a new Vet, she knows I'm working his doses and will just let her know where we're at :). If I'm on the fence about a dose, I'll post here :D.

CrystalAB said:
Also; I picked up some fancy feast on the way home from work and mixed a little into his dry food.
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What kind of Fancy Feast?

CrystalAB said:
Oh and would anyone happen to know if it's possible to change my name to include Leo? Thanks
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Top right should have 3 sections, Your username, Inbox, and Alerts. Click your username, then drop down window opens, click Personal settings. Takes you to another page. Left column at the bottom has an option "Change username" :cat:
 
Thank you!

I have to say I have had a much more pleasant experience here then on the Facebook groups lol. The FF I picked up was ocean whitefish & tuna.
 
Crystal & Leo said:
The FF I picked up was ocean whitefish & tuna.
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What kind of... cut? lol. FF comes in Classics, Chunky, Flaked, Grilled, etc? Actually, here's the link for the Food chart most of us use :). Ideally you want to stick with foods that are Less than 10% carbs: http://catinfo.org/docs/CatFoodProteinFatCarbPhosphorusChart.pdf

Edit: I see your using an AT2 meter. Just letting you know the SS you setup is for a human meter. Your "take action" number / dark green range should be 68-99. Lime green <68. ;)
 
Yong said:
What kind of... cut? lol. FF comes in Classics, Chunky, Flaked, Grilled, etc? . ;)
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I know the answer to that one... ;) it's a pate.
It's on Lisa's list as under 5 carbs. Fabby gets that flavor.
We rotate Chicken Dinner pate, Ocean Whitefish & Tuna, Chicken & Liver Dinner, and Salmon Dinner.
Fabby doesn't like the chunky ones, so pate works well. (Though she would love the gravy, but can't because:carbs lol. So I just add water to the pates to make them gravy-ish, lol.)
 
Ocean Whitefish and Tuna also comes in Grilled, Gravy lovers, and Medleys Florentine ;). Classics and Medleys Florentine are the low carb versions. Grilled and Gravy lovers are medium carb :smuggrin:
 
Yong said:
Ocean Whitefish and Tuna also comes in Grilled, Gravy lovers, and Medleys Florentine ;). Classics and Medleys Florentine are the low carb versions. Grilled and Gravy lovers are medium carb :smuggrin:
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Okay, well I thought I knew that answer. Grrrr why they gotta go making the same flavors all high carb...
Thanks as always for your experience!!!
 
Crystal & Leo said:
Whoops, I'll have to fix my spreadsheet when I get home from work. Leo's BG has been high despite changing to FF. :(
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You have to be patient it will take a few days on his new diet for you to see results, but since you are giving him insulin you should monitor him closely just in case his numbers start getting better (maybe not perfect) with the new food.
 
Crystal & Leo said:
Whoops, I'll have to fix my spreadsheet when I get home from work. Leo's BG has been high despite changing to FF. :(
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Like Veronica said, diet change can still take a few days to see impacts on his BG. I left a post for you above to clarify what "cut" of the FF flavour you purchased is. Only 2 out of 4 "cuts" are low carb ;)
 
Hey I don't know if anyone is awake right now but I just checked his BG and it was 45! I'm freaking out right now just called the animal hospital and put some syrup on his gums. Not sure what else to do?!
 
Okay first, make a new post in the regular forum and use the exclamation point where you put the title to get help fast.
Also you're using the AT2. I'm not familiar, but isn't the hypo numbers lower for that meter?
 
I was about to go to bed so I turned off the lights and he meowed. He doesn't like when it's dark so I turned my flash on and I noticed him panting. I thought that was weird so I checked his BG just out of curiousity and was shocked to see it was 45. He was sprawled out on my hardwood floor breathing heavily. :(

I ended up taking him to the emergency room after giving him syrup, then checking it again and it went down even more--to 40. I was extremely worried as I have never been in this situation before. By the time we got to the vet his blood sugar had went up into the 50's.

They gave me an estimate of over $800 for blood work and other tests which I definitely couldn't afford. I gave them a budget and we worked around it and decided on just giving him higher carb food (temporarily) and they also gave him fluids.

We had a long night but we're home now and all is good. He did have some pretty bad diarrhea on the car ride there, not sure if it's from stress, the food, or maybe both? Hope that mess doesn't return!

I will be giving him a lower dose of insulin now and continue to check his BG. In the past couple days I have used all of my test strips for the AT2 so I now have the ReliOn Prime from Walmart.
 
Glad you're both okay. I used the Relion Prime at first but changed to the Relion Confirm because it requires a blood drop half the size of the Prime. If you have problems getting Leo's test, try switching meters to one with a tiny drop size.
 
Thank you! I just tried it out for the first time and it read 37. He isn't showing any symptoms of hypoglycemia but I'm still a little concerned. What is the normal range on a ReliOn Prime?
 
Crystal & Leo said:
Thank you! I just tried it out for the first time and it read 37. He isn't showing any symptoms of hypoglycemia but I'm still a little concerned. What is the normal range on a ReliOn Prime?
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37 is pretty low he may be going into hypo. Your spreadsheet is not current so I'm not sure if you gave him a shot and how much insulin. Make sure to monitor him and possibly give him food to slow the insulin. You want to stay between 50-120 on a human meter like the Relion Prime.

You can test him again and make sure it wasn't a bad strip. Did he just eat or get a insulin shot?

@Yong @Kris & Teasel @MrWorfMen's Mom @JanetNJ Are experienced and will be able to help.
 
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I don't have any real experience with Vetsulin (we use Lantus) but I'd retest now......37 is too low on a human meter....if they drop below 50 on a human meter, that's your "time to act".....the Gravy Lovers Fancy Feasts are high carb and you should always have a few in the house in cases of hypos.

If you pop the top, put it back down and "squeeze" the gravy into another bowl, you can maximize the effect since the gravy has most of the carbs. If he drops below 50, feed a couple teaspoons of the gravy and test again in 20 minutes or so to make sure he's coming up.

Is he off the dry food completely yet?

If he dropped that low, I'd strongly suggest dropping his dose to maybe 2.5 and get at least 4 tests per day in (more is better).....how he reacts will dictate if he needs more or less. Please try to keep your spreadsheet updated too....we really depend on those to see what's going on
 
I tested again and it was 140 after letting him eat some HSD dry (his old food.) He isn't completely off of that food, still transitioning. I updated my spreadsheet to fit the new meter--not sure how to convert old spreadsheet into new.
 
That 37 you got today is a sure sign that a dose of 4 units is too high. Please post here for help before deciding on his evening dose tonight.
 
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And stresses the importance of getting PS tests (preshot tests). You'll want to make sure he hasn't eaten for 2 hours prior to PS time. Your SS is setup for a human meter so you're ok there :). How long until PMPS?
 
Chris & China said:
If he dropped that low, I'd strongly suggest dropping his dose to maybe 2.5 and get at least 4 tests per day in (more is better).....how he reacts will dictate if he needs more or less. Please try to keep your spreadsheet updated too....we really depend on those to see what's going on
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I just checked PMPS and it's 50. I'm going to take your advice and try 2.5 and see what happens.
 
You can still do a before bed test to see how he's doing on his own. A cat's normal BG range on a human meter is 50 - 120 so as a new member you would not give insulin if his PS test is below 200.
 
Yong said:
You can still do a before bed test to see how he's doing on his own. A cat's normal BG range on a human meter is 50 - 120 so as a new member you would not give insulin if his PS test is below 200.
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Got it! Thanks for the quick response, I was about to give him insulin if I didn't hear anything. I love this forum but I wish we had some type "instant" messaging for emergencies lol.
 
We have a "no shot" limit of 200....until you have enough data and experience, so definitely no insulin tonight!!

Don't be surprised if he's sky high by morning, but don't let that scare you....I would definitely not give more than 2.5 tomorrow

Test at Pre-shot and again 2-3 hours later (if you can)....that will help to let you know how quickly he's dropping and when you should test again
 
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