NEWBIE Needs Help!

Status
Not open for further replies.

MarkMushang

Member Since 2013
Mark Here - Glad I found this forum - NEED ADVICE + HELP and some RE-ASSURANCE



Mushang my 13 yo Siamese was diagnosed just yesterday morning 6/3/13 with Diabetes Melitus and we were sent home with lantus (glargine) insulin to last us through the week.

He was administered 2 units yesterday and one this morning 6/4/13. This evening his demeanor changed, skipped his dinner and looked/acted lethargic. Rubbed some syrup/sugar around his mouth (that's what some printed instructions from the vet said to do if he showed symptoms of low blood sugar) and still seems a bit down, sitting under the bed as I type and he normally would be sitting with me on top of the bed. So obvious the worry is starting to creep in.

QUESTIONS:

On Symptoms
1. Is this normal? His body adjusting to the new dosage of insulin?
2. Is this a symptom of low blood sugar, hypo OR hyper glycemia?
3. Should we skip a shot or reduced the amount of insulin? Instructions said most likely reducing dosage would help?

On Testing Kits
1. What's the best method or glucose meter?
2. Were can I buy one?

Have purchased the special low carb canned wet food.

Lookng for guidance. Thanks in advance. - Mark
 
Hi Mark! Welcome to FDMB, the best place you never expected to be.

What food were you feeding before the diagnosis?

Have you switched Mushang to the low carb food yet? or is he still eating the old food?

Which "special" low carb canned food did you purchase?

Where do you live? Meter advice is country dependent.
 
Hello and welcome to the board,

Firstly, how was he diagnosed? Did the vet send his blood to a lab for a fructosamine test or do a urine sample? I want to confirm the diagnosis as sometimes symptoms can be confused.

Second two units is a lot to start, although glargine is a great insulin. We usually recommend 1 unit especially if you switched to low carb wet. I wouldn't go higher than that.

Lethargy can be a sign of too low or too high blood sugar so home testing is key. He could be low still or could have "bounced" off his low number yesterday. Sooner you home test the better!!

Where do you live ? Country/state and we can recommend a meter etc. Also I wouldn't shoot until you are testing, unless the vet mentioned ketones.

Anyway here is a shopping list assuming you live in the us, we can revise if not. We can give tips etc for testing etc once you get the kit.. ASAP if you can.

Getting started shopping list
1. Meter ie Walmart Relion Confirm or Micro.
2. Matching strips
3. Lancets - little sticks to poke the ear to get blood . new members usually start with a larger gauge lancet such as 28g or 29g until the ear learns to bleed. Optional - lancing tool.
4. Cotton balls to stem the blood
5. Neosporin or Polysporin ointment to heal the wound
6. Mini flashlight (optional) - useful to help see the ear veins in dark cats, and to press against
7. Ketone urine test strips ie Ketostix or ketodiastix - Important to check ketones when blood is high
8. Sharps container - to dispose of waste syringes and lancets.
9. Treats for the cat - like freeze dried chicken
10. Karo syrup/corn syrup or honey if you dont have it at home - for hypo emergencies to bring blood sugar up fast
11. A couple of cans of fancy feast gravy lovers or other high carb gravy food- for hypo emergencies to bring blood sugar up fast

Wendy
 
Here is some information about hypos and possible hypo symptoms. Please note, many cats exhibit no symptoms. I would add one more symptom to this list. Dilated pupils that are unreactive to light. This was the only symptom my cat Wink exhibited when his BG (blood glucose) was under 40.

You want to print this out for future reference. Just in case: http://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=15887

Here is the full text in this link:

GENERAL RULE OF THUMB FOR TREATING HYPOGLYCEMIA


This document may be printed or email Melissa at jur@eee.org for the newest file to keep on your computer.

Your best defense against hypoglycemia is home blood glucose testing. If you’re not already doing so and your cat allows it, I HIGHLY recommend you test before each shot.

Hypoglycemia or low blood sugar is a dangerous condition that must be treated immediately. Also known as insulin shock or insulin reaction, hypoglycemia occurs when there is too much insulin in the body potentially leading to neurological damage and/or death.

Knowing how to respond to a hypoglycemic event whether or not symptoms are present can save the life of your diabetic cat. The following general guidelines are intended for those who home test the blood glucose levels in their cats. These guidelines are not intended to replace the advice given by your Veterinarian. It is very important that you discuss any and all treatment options with your cat’s physician BEFORE an event has occurred.

SYMPTOMS
Some cats may have NO symptoms whatsoever, but here are the most common ones:

MILD HYPOGLYCEMIA
Sudden ravenous hunger
Shivering
Weak or lethargic

MODERATE HYPOGLYCEMIA
Disorientation
Trouble with vision... bumps into furniture
Poor coordination, such as staggering, walking in circles or acting drunk
Changes in head or neck movements
Restlessness
Urgent meowing
Behavioral changes, such as aggressiveness

SEVERE HYPOGLYCEMIA
Convulsions or seizures
Unconsciousness


TREATMENT

During treatment for hypoglycemia, try to test every 15 minutes until you see the bgs begin to rise. Then continue to test until you are satisfied that the cat is out of danger.

VERY LOW NUMBERS – WITHOUT SYMPTOMS
Retest glucose using a large blood sample to make certain you have enough blood, and if you still get a very low number (under 40 mg/dL or 1.9 – 2.2 mmol/L) administer a tablespoon of corn syrup, liquid glucose, pancake syrup or honey, or INSTA-GLUCOSE and follow with food until the blood glucose numbers rise to acceptable levels. The syrup can be mixed with wet food or poured over dry if the cat will eat the mixture. If using liquid glucose, dilute with water for a thinner consistency.

LOW NUMBERS – WITHOUT SYMPTOMS
Retest glucose using a large blood sample to make certain you have enough blood, and if you still get a low number (40 – 60mg/dL or 2.2 – 3.3mmol/L) give food or treats until the blood glucose numbers rise to an acceptable level. If the cat refuses to eat even his/her favorite foods, you can syringe feed or administer a small amount of syrup.

LOW NUMBERS – MILD SYMPTOMS
Try feeding first or give a little syrup or honey followed by food until the blood glucose numbers rise to an acceptable level and the symptoms disappear. The syrup can be mixed with wet food or poured over dry if the cat will eat the mixture. If the cat will not eat, syringe feed. If your cat will eat dry, feed this first as the high carbs will help to increase his/her bgs quickly. You can then follow with his/her favorite canned food. Keep in mind that giving syrup (Karo, etc.) or honey is not enough because the effects wear off quickly. You need to follow with food.
IF IN ANY DOUBT, TELEPHONE YOUR VETERINARIAN.

LOW NUMBERS – MODERATE SYMPTOMS
Give a tablespoon of syrup, a teaspoon of liquid glucose, a tablespoon of honey or a tablespoon of sugar syrup followed by food and continue doing so until you see the blood glucose numbers rise to an acceptable level and all symptoms disappear. The syrup, honey, or glucose can be rubbed against the inside of the cat’s cheeks or on the gums for quick absorption. You can also mix the syrup with wet food or pour over dry if the cat will eat it. Continue to give syrup and food as needed and observe your cat for signs of recurring hypoglycemia. Keep in mind that giving syrup (Karo, etc.) or honey is not enough because the effects wear off quickly. You need to follow with food.
IF IN ANY DOUBT, TELEPHONE YOUR VETERINARIAN.

LOW NUMBERS – SEVERE SYMPTOMS
Rub syrup, honey, or glucose on the gums and cheeks if your cat will allow it. Another option for administering syrup, diluted liquid glucose, honey or sugar syrup to a cat who is seizuring is to fill a needleless syringe with the mixture and insert via the rectum.
NEVER TRY TO SQUIRT SYRUP, HONEY, OR GLUCOSE TO A CAT WHO IS SEIZURING AS THE CAT COULD CHOKE ON IT! RUSH TO EMERGENCY.

AGAIN! ANYTIME YOU CAT IS SEIZURING OR LIMP, RUB KARO, GLUCOSE OR HONEY ONLY ON GUMS OR ADMINISTER RECTALLY AND GET TO EMERGENCY OR YOUR NEAREST CLINIC IMMEDIATELY!!!

Remember that syrup or any other sugared syrup/preparation will spike the blood glucose ONLY for a short period of time, so food is really important with mild and moderate symptoms. Dry food (high carbohydrates) will keep the blood glucose numbers elevated longer, so it’s a better food to give during a hypoglycemic episode.

After a hypoglycemic episode cats may be more sensitive to insulin, so a reduction in dosage is generally required, especially considering too much insulin – whether due to dosage, inadequate food intake, or the cat’s changing insulin requirements – caused the hypoglycemic event in the first place. With moderate to severe episodes, your Vet may have you skip the next injection altogether.
IT IS VERY IMPORTANT THAT YOU DISCUSS YOUR CAT’S HYPOGLYCEMIC EVENT WITH YOUR VET, SO TOGETHER YOU CAN DECIDE UPON THE NEXT COURSE OF ACTION.

Always keep in mind that with low blood glucose and no symptoms, the BG you get is not as important as where it is headed. In other words, if you get a BG of 100 mg/dL or 5.6 mmol/L or less and there are still several hours or more before the insulin peaks, your need to watch your cat (and the numbers) carefully and take appropriate steps. With very low numbers and NO SYMPTOMS, a cat can be fine one moment and seizuring the next.

BE PREPARED! KNOW THE SYMPTOMS AND KNOW THE TREATMENT!
 
How about rub some more Karo or syrup on his gums and see if he perks up more. Please, do not give a shot tonight. You have no way of know what his bg numbers are and he may be too low so it will be safer to skip the shot tonight and hopefully you can purchase a meter tomorrow and start testing his numbers. I do not use Lantus but no one had replied to your one question about shooting and I would advice skipping it tonight. Others will be on that do use Lantus and can help you in the future.
 
Thanks everyone for the really great info. Really am in a bit of a tailspin after having him for 13+ years w/ zero health problems, still in a bit of shell shock.

1. Skipped the injection last night and left him inside the greenhouse w/ food and water. This morning the wet food was gone and he ate some more food that was offered to him. Still seemed a little sluggish but he was moving about and meowing and purring. Taking this as a good sign.

2. The food was purchased at the vet. Science Diet. He was previously eating Fromm brand dry cat food (various favors) all three of the cats have eaten dry and an occasional can of wet. We will be permanently switching Mushang to wet now. Again any reccomendations on wet is appreciated. Understand from postings on here Fancy Feast has low carb varieties. Anyone find success feeding their diabetic cats a raw food diet?

3. We live in South Carolina US and did not realize gluco meters vary in availability for region to region. Still need advice on which is best to get. Will be buying one today just want to ensure I have advice on how to,proceed. Understand human vs. pet gluco meters have different varying opinions from people. Any advice is appreciated.

4. The readings were done by the vet using an Alpha Track ($118 was the charge on the bill) so am sure this was using a blood sample and not urine. Vet said nothing about ketones... Not sure what the ketones mean, again pardon my ignorance trying to absorb as much as I can in short period of time.

Thanks again to all - the info has been a huge help in this strange adjustment period of just 2 days lol. Whoa.
 
1) See my signature link for Secondary Monitoring Tools. The 5Ps - purring, playing, preening/grooming, peeing/drinking, pooping/eating - are indirect indicators of how well the cat is doing.

2) low carb canned or raw food is an excellent way to help maintain your diabetic cat and we encourage that. Cat Info has a recipe, as well as food lists with nutritional breakdown. You want the calories from carbohydrates to be 10% or lower. Friskies classic pates generally fall into the low carb list. There are very few dry foods that are low carb, which may be used if the cat refuses to eat wet food. They are Young Again 0 Carb, Evo Cat and Kitten, and Wellness Core in the gold and tan bag. Stella and Chewy's makes a freeze-dried food which is supposed to be hydrated before feeding, but may help with transitioning (watch out for constipation if feeding it dry). We advise not feeding dry, due to the insufficient water intake which results and puts a strain on the kidneys. Some cats, however, are very resistant to change.

Until you are testing, do not change the food while giving insulin. The glucose level may drop as much as 100 mg/dL when doing that and you'd need a lower insulin dose.
IF no ketones were present, some folks have temporarily stopped the insulin to change the diet, then resumed.

3) glucometers: the AlphaTrak is very expensive, the strips are expensive, and you can't go get them in the middle of the night. Many of us use the WalMart ReliOn Confirm, Confirm Micro, or Prime. They use small drops of blood and the strips are reasonable in cost. If you're not a fan of WalMart, the unbranded version of the Confirm and Micro are available at ADW (our shopping partner linked above) as the Glucocard 01 and mini.

4) Ketones are a by-product of fat breakdown. Too many may indicate diabetic ketoacidosis (DKA), a potentially fatal, expensive to treat, complication of diabetes.

Dose check:
How much does he weigh?
How much should he weigh?
Take the lower of the preceeding, in kilograms (pounds divided by 2.2), then multiply by 0.25. Round down to the nearest half unit. That is an approximate starting dose for Lantus, when no other insulins have been used previously.
 
Where in SC are you located. We have a great member who is in Hunting Island. If that is near you, we can connect you. He's great!


Still need advice on which is best to get. Will be buying one today just want to ensure I have advice on how to,proceed. Understand human vs. pet gluco meters have different varying opinions from people. Any advice is appreciated.

Anyway, regarding meters - if you have a Walmart nearby you can buy the Relion meter from there - they have several kinds and prices are very reasonable.

If you want a name brand meter - Bayer Contour is good, a little more expensive, but good.

The two meters that people have had problems with are the ones with TRU in the name (such as Tru Trak - sold at CVS, Walgreen's etc and the Freestyle meters with butterfly strips.

No matter which meter you get, just be sure to get the strips that go with the meter.

The food was purchased at the vet. Science Diet. He was previously eating Fromm brand dry cat food (various favors) all three of the cats have eaten dry and an occasional can of wet. We will be permanently switching Mushang to wet now. Again any reccomendations on wet is appreciated. Understand from postings on here Fancy Feast has low carb varieties. Anyone find success feeding their diabetic cats a raw food diet?

Prescription food is really not any better quality than what you can buy in the store and is a lot more money! What I suggest is you return the food to the vet, just tell the vet the cat won't eat it and it is guaranteed, so they are supposed to refund your money.

Fancy Feast classic canned food is all low carb and fine to use.

Given that you had some issues (and possible hypo), buy a few cans of Fancy Feast gravy lovers - label it and put it in your hypo kit. This is a high carb food and good to use for those situations.

Regarding dry food - well it is best to not feed any dry food (kibbles) at all. For all the reasons why dry food is bad for cats, check out this link: http://www.catinfo.org

Regarding raw food - yes raw food is great to feed your cats. Not all cats will like it and there are lots of choice. You can buy or even make your own. However, before you invest in making your own, you may want to purchase some raw food and see if there are interested. Nature's Variety, Feline's Pride just to name a couple.

One raw food that you may want to try that may help with the dry/kibble addiction your cats have is Stella & Chewy's Freeze Dried Raw. You may find it locally in specialty pet stores. If you buy it online, I found this site is cheapest in price - http://www.petfood.com/item/stella-and- ... od/498360/

It comes in several flavors. While it is intended for you to add water to it, you can serve it dry and let your cats eat it that way. My civvie misses her kibbles so badly and when I served this, both my cats love it, served dry of course. I figure it is the safest way to make her happy and yet not feed her dry food...
 
Where is the best place to purchase Lentus (glargnine)? 1-800 Pet Meds or any other sources available? Newbie here looking to make first purchase (hopefully cost effective) for cat that was diagnosed on Monday 6/3 w/ DM Thanks.
 
Call your local pharmacies and ask them what the price is for Lantus with no insurance. Did the vet write a scrip for vial or solostar pens? We suggest getting the pens instead of the vial. Even though it may initially seem more expensive, it actually will save you money in the long run, because you get a package of 5 pens compared to one vial and as long as the pens are unopened and stored in your fridge, they are good to use. Once you open a pen or vial, the clock starts ticking on when it may go bad.

Additionally, if you drop it, you could break the vial as it is glass, unlike the pen that is covered in plastic.

Plus there are coupons for the pens that will help with the cost. And if you sign up on Lantus site, they have a discount card you can use too.

My guess is that Costco, BJ Wholesale, CVS or Walmart pharmacies may be the least expensive. Oh and don't forget to call your supermarket, if it has a pharmacy, sometimes they are cheaper.
 
Larry and Kitties said:
Tyr Cosco. You do not have to be a member to use their pharmacy.
Have you seen this before:
http://www.lantus.com/sign-up/offers.as ... 4-58228089

This is a fantastic Savings Card from the manufacturer and it means that you only pay $25 per PEN (make sure the prescription is for the pen and not the vial).

Hillary & Maui said:
Did the vet write a scrip for vial or solostar pens? We suggest getting the pens instead of the vial. Even though it may initially seem more expensive, it actually will save you money in the long run, because you get a package of 5 pens compared to one vial and as long as the pens are unopened and stored in your fridge, they are good to use. Once you open a pen or vial, the clock starts ticking on when it may go bad.
...
My guess is that Costco, BJ Wholesale, CVS or Walmart pharmacies may be the least expensive. Oh and don't forget to call your supermarket, if it has a pharmacy, sometimes they are cheaper.

You can also call around and find places that will sell you the pens individually (my local Walmart does). That way, you're only paying $25 every couple of months instead of $125 upfront.
 
Would you please go back to your very first post and change the 911 icon to the none or question mark icon.

I think the emergency has passed and you can use the question mark icon for now when you need more information.

To change the post, either the icon that shows up on the post or the subject header, go back to the very first post in the topic. Click on the little Edit box over to the right hand side of the post. You original post will pop up in the editing window. Do not change any of the text in the editing box, only change the alert icon and your subject if you want to.

Thank you.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top