NEWBIE needs DOSE ADVICE

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Manouk & Billy

Manouk & Billy

Member Since 2011
Hello everyone,

I tested my diabetic cat for the first time tonight. I gave him 1 unit this morning. 11 hours after that, he's at 18,3 (329 in usa numbers). How much should I give him? 1 or 2? Or more..?

He's been having 1 unit am and pm for the past four days. Before that he was at two but my insulin was 5 months old back then >_< ... So most likely it hasn't been doing any good.

Also, my vet told me to roll the vial between my palms for 10 seconds before using the insulin, but I just read on a sticky here that we shouldn't ever roll Lantus vials. ...I have been doing this wrong from the very beginning, haven't I? So, no more rolling?
 
hi there!

welcome to Lantus Land.


here is a quick link to your thread from the health forum:
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/view ... 78#p396578 for everyone to glance back.

quick questions:
Are you on a 12/12 shooting schedule? plan to shoot for +12?
you just recently began home testing right?
do you have any other numbers from today? AMPS? (a.m preshot number)
Billy is eating wet food? brand?

nope you don't want to roll Lantus. so no more rolling....(I see you are editing your first post, you may want to hit reply instead - this will "bump" up your thread/condo to the top, every time your thread has a reply, it goes to the top of the list.) dont worry it gets easier!

have a look at the "starred" stickies up above - all about Lantus and other really good info!
 
I am on a 12/12 schedule and plan to shoot for +12, just before Billy eats his evening meal. I don't have other numbers as this 18,3 result came from my first home test ever.
Billy is currently eating dry purina DM, I will begin switching him to wet food starting today. He'll only be getting a little wet food tonight so the change isn't too drastic.

Thanks!
 
Welcome to Lantus Land!

Sue had sent me a note asking me to visit your thread on the Health Board. I've copied it here so other's don't have to search for the information.

There's something a bit goofy with your spreadsheet. The World template should convert your BG numbers from the Canadian system to the US system automatically.

Please keep your dose consistent at 1.0u. I realize you've been using Lantus for a while. We do need to see a few days worth of numbers before we can make any recommendations about changing the dose.

Also, please familiarize yourself with the starred, sticky notes at the top of the Board.
  • Tight Regulation Protocol: This sticky contains the dosing protocol that we use here. There are also links to the more formal versions -- the Tilly Protocol developed by the counterpart of this group in German and the Queensland/Rand protocol developed by Jacqui Rand, DVM and published in one of the top vet journals.
  • New to the Group: Everything you wanted to know about this forum and more. Info on our slang, FAQs, links to sites on feline nutrition and to food charts containing carb counts, how to do a curve and the components to look for, important aspects of diabetes such as ketones, DKA, and neuropathy, and most important, info on hypoglycemia.
  • Handling Lantus: how to get the maximum use from your insulin and what to not do with it!
  • Lantus depot/shed: This is an important concept for understanding how Lantus works.
  • Becoming Data Ready: What data you need in order to be able to work toward remission or tight regulation.

Please ask questions. The people here are very willing to help and are generous with their time and information. Also please visit our threads (we call them condos) and look at our spreadsheets (SS). It's a great way to learn. And most of all, please post regularly. We love seeing how well Billy is doing.
 
How is your kitty about eating? In an ideal world you want to test his blood sugar, feed and then give his shot within a short period of time - 10-15 minutes or so. If you wait an hour that is a long period of time for their blood sugar to spike from food - remember that lantus takes a bit of time to really get to work.

Keep testing, you'll want to do a curve (checking blood sugar every 2hrs throughout the day) as soon as its convienient. This will give you a better idea of how your kitty is responding to the insulin. Lantus is dosed not on the number before you give the shot - but on the lowest numbers you get in their cycle (nadir).
 
Thanks for the answers! Billy just received his one unit and is now eating (and eating pretty well at that).
I'll do a complete curve tomorrow, and read the topics I should read in the meantime.
Should I test him after his meal tonight, let's say at +1, too?
 
since you switched to canned food you may need to monitor carefully, as numbers can come down when there is a food switch from dry to canned.

if you're comfortable to work on your home testing, you would probably be ok to start at +2 and go from there, and no matter what, try your best to do a before bedtime check, if you need help just post an update here or in the health forum.
 
by the way, the numbers you get in Canadian format, you'll want to multiply that by 18 to get your U.S numbers.
those should be showing up in your U.S spreadsheet (not sure why) check it out, might be something in your settings...
 
Chances are that all you will see is a food spike at +1. How about a test at +2?

Just to clarify... You want to test immediately before you feed a meal and give an insulin shot. The AMPS/PMPS are actually your +12. It can be very helpful to get a +11 -- it will tell you if numbers at the pre-shot time are dropping. The +11 shouldn't substitute for your pre-shot test, though.

Are you using the version of the World Template that's found in this link? If not, you're using a version that's no longer supported by Google docs. Could you replace the version? If you are using the version I linked, please let us know. Randi/Max may be able to troubleshoot if there's a problem with the newer version.
 
Hi and welcome to the board.
A new Quebecer, this is exciting.
I am in Montreal, are you close by and need any help?

Sienne questioned your spreadsheet. Did you get it from the tech section?
Here is the link just in case because I made that one and yours does not look like it.

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=18207

The board here uses the US numbers so the world spreadsheet makes it easier.
You enter your canadian numbers on the world side and all the numbers convert..

You are in a terrific place here to get all the help you need.
 
I converted the numbers in my spreadsheet manually for now. The version available in this thread wasn't working, so Sue and Oliver (Althought it might just have been Sue... ;) ) gave me a second link to use. She already went ahead and asked a tech about this problem. We'll see what he or she tells us; I can convert numbers until then.

@ Randi & Max : I'm in Sherbrooke! A bit far for now. Thanks, though! It is exciting to see some members are from my area. :)

I'll test him at +2 tonight and be sure to have his amps numbers tomorrow morning. Is there anything else I should do? Can I test him at +2, go to sleep and test him at + 11 and for his amps tomorrow? Or should more testing be done before bedtime?

As for the food, he is still eating mostly dry. I just started adding a bit of wet food to his plate so the switch can go smoothly.
 
Well Welcome.

Sherbrooke is a bit far from me although I did adopt a kitten from there this summer, a member of the board was fostering for the SPA..long story but if you need some help over there
I can contact her.

I was the one Sue contacted for the ss.
I was able to get it to work from the link. I do not know how sue helps newbies with the ss.
It was taking a while to load so maybe try it again.
I can pm you tomorrow and walk you thorugh it if sue can't get it resolved.
 
We always encourage a before bed test. In general, the numbers will guide you with respect to how much you need to test.

In the morning, if you have a question, please post before giving a shot. There are usually people around fairly early in the AM. We also have a convention for what to put in your subject line:
date cat's name AMPS-BG#, +hour-BG#, etc.
3/1 Billy AM +11-329​
 
Thanks for the advice! You're all being very helpful, I really appreciate it. I'll be sure to follow the convention for my next post.

Good night to everyone. :)
 
Hi, glad you made it over to LL (Lantus Land)!Good work on the spread sheet. :-D

An important thing to remember about Lantus is that the dose is based on the nadir, the lowest BG in the cycle. It is often around +6, but ECID (every cat is different) and some can be as early as +3 or as late as +8 or +9. So it would be great if you can get another test in between +2 and +11. It will take a while to figure out just when Billy's nadir is so the sooner you can get started the better. To make things even more complicated, the nadir isn't fixed, it can change.

The other really important test is the preshot, not to determine the dose, but to make sure Billy isn't too low to shoot safely. You will see people here shooting low numbers, but we have data to know how our cats will react. It will take some time before you get to that point.

You've made a great start though, Billy is in great hands. :thumbup
 
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