NEWBIE (needs advise)

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loara71

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confused_cat Please I need advice in regards to the BG readings I am now getting from my kitty.
(BTW; I have listed below the BG readings I have gotten from my kitty this last week on PZI. That way you can see better what is going on.)

BACKGROUND INFO: My cat is on PZI insulin
My kitty was recently (a week 1/2 ago) diagnosed with diabetes. "Prince" is on PZI (1 unit) twice a day. I do check his BG level at home. I learned how to that from videos and others that help here in the forum.
My vet did change his food to a prescription low carb food BUT still wanted him to have a small amount (the same brand and low carb; 1/4 cup) of dry food a day. The reason for the dry food was because I work all day. and no one is here to monitor him. Therefore, the vet wanted him to have food in case his BG level went low.

The problem is that my kitty had consistently high BG readings for a week or so, both morning and evening, and now the past two days the readings at the evening time have been low. (near normal too) Because of this I have laid off giving him his insulin in the evening. (as advised by a vet on call too)
FYI, The one thing I have changed is that for the last two days and didn't lay out the dry food. I do know about what others say about NO DRY FOOD. I am not sure though if that is the reason for the low evening readings since he does still have high readings in the mornings (past two days).

Have any of you experienced what I am describing with your kitties? Could it be that I have not laid out any dry food even though his readings are still high in the AM and ONLY low at the PM readings. WHAT DO YOU SUGGEST OR THINK? WHAT SHOULD I CONTINUE TO DO OR NOT DO?
Any suggestions I get will be greatly appreciated. :-D

HERE ARE "Prince's" BG readings I have received: Please look at the evening readings for Fri. and Sat.
I SHOULD ADD HE WAS ALSO STARTED ON AN ANTIBIOTIC. The vet found a possible infection in his kidney. He has been on that 6 days. Could that too have contributed to a false positive of his glucose to be up and diagnosed as diabetic? Maybe that infection is going away which in turn is why he is now having lower BG levels some. I don't know I am stabbing at the dark here.

Sun.10/24
7 am BG 484 1 unit
7 pm BG 399 1 unit

Mon. 10/25
7 am BG 382 1 unit
7 pm BG 271 1/2 unit

Tues. 10/26
7 am BG 591 1 unit
7 pm BG 403 1 unit

Wed. 10/27
7 am BG 574 1 unit
7 pm BG 392 1 unit

Thurs. 10/28
7 am BG 428 1 unit
7 pm BG 571 1 unit

Fri. 10/29
7 am BG 459 1 unit
7 pm BG *238 none given

Sat. 10/30
7 am BG 512 1 unit
7 pm BG *199 none given
 
Hi! I'm pretty new at this too, so I have little advice to give... But, according to my vet, and prozinc's website (not sure if that's the pzi you are on?), for about 20% of cats one dose per day is all they need. I've yet to see someone on this forum that can get away with one shot per day, but it doesn't mean that those kitties don't exist. So perhaps that's what's going in here? Others will come on throughout the day, so be patient when waiting for responses here. Good job on home testing!! And on not putting out the kibbles! You may want to look in to timed feeders to feed wet food at intervals thru the day so Prince isn't going hungry and his sugar doesn't drop too low. You can set it to feed at his expected nadir.
 
By the way, from what I've been told here, infections CAN raise blood sugars. But Prince is still showing diabetic numbers, so I'm not sure that's the issue here. He's quite high at his amps, and still in the diabetic range at his pmps. Maybe over a weekend or on a day off you can get a couple other bg levels in between the am and pm shot times?
 
Hi and Welcome,

Congratulations on home testing. That was the hardest part of this for me.

Alot of things contribute to their overall health picture. How was Prince diagnosed? What kind of PZI are you using?

You're right about the infection. Infections of any kind can raise their bg's so when the infection is treated their bg's can go back down on their own. You will want to keep an eye on that and keep testing.

For people new to PZI your no shoot number is 200. Good job on that too. If you can start getting spot checks during the day at say +4 & +6 we will be able to see where his nadir is and get an overall picture of how the insulin is working in his system, it will also guide you in future decisions.

Food - Even the prescription food is high in carbs and not made of the best ingredients. Most here will advocate completly switching to low carb wet food from Janet & Binkys list and removing all dry food. Alot of us leave wet food out all day without any problems. Some use timed feeders with ice packs in them to keep food fresh or freeze the food in ice cube trays and put out the food sicles in the morning along with their breakfast, etc.

I work full time so I free feed (food is available to my kitties at all times) and have never had any problems.

Keep us updated today, keep asking questions, you've come to the right place to help Prince.

Robin
 
HI. YES, THIS MORNING AGAIN PRINCE'S BG level (at 8 am) was 474(high again)
I gave him the insulin (1 unit) as instructed. Is it OK to do that knowing his numbers might drop again later so low?
He is not doing well with the pricking of his ear AT ALL. Therefore, monitoring him more that the two times a day is not good at this point I think. This morning he hissed as I was getting ready. I knew it was not going to be good. I had to get my hubby to help hold him down. He bit at my hubby's arm of which my hubby had a jacket on so did not feel it. However, I did get the reading.
As to readings, maybe I will have to stick with the two times a day for now. My kitty is due to get a panel reading done at the vet this Wed. Would that help in knowing when his levels raise? I do know that his numbers might be higher at the vet. However, when we had him in there last week for two days his numbers were about the same as home. We had him in the vets for the first two days when he started PZI since I was not home to watch him. They just observed him, no real readings. I did his readings (am/pm) at home. He doesn't seem to get to upset at the vet either. They say he doesn't meow, just sleeps in his cage and watches others.
Let me know if it is dangerous to give him the 1 unit of PZI when he is high and needs it in the am. to when it is MUCH lower in the pm. (the drastic contrast) I know he needs it at 474 but could he suddenly bottom out before I get his reading in the pm from insulin given in the am when needed? Is this even possible?
Thanks again for the feedback.
 
Hi and Welcome to pzi. the need for the mid cycle test is not to see when kitty starts to go up it's to see how low kitty goes on that dose...and that is VERY IMPORTANT. and best done at home. you will not know whether you can raise your dose or even lower it based only on the am and pm #'s.
you can see where this makes sense?
+6 from shot time is generally what we call nadir, the lowest point...but really could be anytime.
good to see how fast kitty drops too by checking +2 and +4.
you don't have to pay avet to do this...plus numbers will be higher at vet.
learn to do this very valuable tool ok.
we are here to help you steer the numbers if you go low.
lori
and tomtom tto!
 
Yes, giving him 1 unit at 474 is fine.

Anything is possible, their bg's along with other health issues makes figuring all this out a moving target. Every Cat is different.

Typically with PZI their bg's will continue to go up for the first 2 hours, then the insulin will start working (onset) and their bg's will start to go down to their lowest point of the day (nadir) anywhere from 4 to 7 hours later depending on which PZI you are using and then the bg's start to steadily rise as the insulin is wearing off again about 10 to 14 hours later (with Prozinc) other PZI's last more like 8 to 12 hours. I think Joanna said we want about a 60% drop, I hope she will correct me if I'm wrong and it's more than that.

Are you giving him yummy treats after every test attempt? along with extra loving? They come to realize that the treats are worth sitting for the tests to get. I think they also realize that they feel better after the tests and shots and that you are helping them. They do get used to the ritual. Harley had never been given treats so instead he gets lots of chin scratching and head rubbing. Many of our kitties come and remind us that it is test time or will go to their testing spot and wait for us.

The more data that you can gather during his cycle will let you know if you are giving him too much or too little insulin. You don't want his nadir to go too low. You will know how well the insulin is working and you will know what to expect from a given dose. You will both get more comfortable with testing and will find a routine that works for you.

Testing pre shots is a must at the very least as you have seen.

Quote:
Let me know if it is dangerous to give him the 1 unit of PZI when he is high and needs it in the am. to when it is MUCH lower in the pm. (the drastic contrast) I know he needs it at 474 but could he suddenly bottom out before I get his reading in the pm from insulin given in the am when needed? Is this even possible?

Sorry but without mid cycle tests we just don't know what happened. We would just be guessing.
 
Congratulations on home testing and on asking so many good questions! I am no dosing expert, hopefully others will tell you more, but they won't really be able to do so without mid cycle test information---because they will not know how low the BG is really going. So far it doesn't seem like you have any really low numbers (below 60) but you never know. THose high numbers are definitely concerning, however. SO maybe we can help you with the testing. What lancet are you using? Do you do it freehand or with a device? If with a device, what setting? Perhaps altering this may be helpful. Do you give treats every time? My cat was very difficult to test until I began wrapping her burrito style and using the clothespin trick---now it is a breeze. Here is the address if you are interested.
http://www.felinecrf.org/giving_sub-qs_ ... _peg_trick.
Good luck!
 
OK, I GOT A MID READING. SO HERE ARE TODAY'S READINGS: 10/31 (again it was "pull teeth" to get it)
8 am = 474
**2 pm = 198
** Now if it comes back again this evening still in that 198 range but PZI is due, WHAT DOES THAT MEAN? Remember, if it goes as it has been going (reading) then tomorrow morning it is again high (in the high 400's) WHAT DOES IT ALL MEAN? Anyone had instances like this on PZI? confused_cat

last two days readings
Fri. 10/29
7 am BG 459 1 unit
7 pm BG *238 none given

Sat. 10/30
7 am BG 512 1 unit
7 pm BG *199 none given

I know this is only one mid reading. I will TRY to get more. However, it is not easy. We (my hubby and I) are holding our kitty down to get it. I HATE DOING THAT TOO! :cry:

I REALLY WANT TO THANK ALL THAT ARE RESPONDING. It really helps to know I have support! :mrgreen:
 
Good for you on getting the mid reading! PZI is unusually quiet today. Hopefully others will be along soon. We usually shoot 2x/day unless the number is 200 or less. If you want to see examples of peoples numbers, you can click on their spreadsheets--listed at the bottom left on each post.
 
Forgot to tell you, we post our numbers as hours elapsed since last shot, not the time, because this is a national and international board and people are in all different time zones. So your 2pm reading would appear as +6 (that is, 6 hours after insulin shot). It would also be most helpful if you set up a spreadsheet, as people study that to see what is happening with your cat. If you go to the tech forum you will find info on how to do that.
Also, you are probably getting those high morning numbers because you are not shooting at night. I am not sure why you are not.
 
Yay for your mid cycle test. Way to go!

Ok, Prince got a really nice drop from the 1 unit, typically his bg's will start to rise until PMPS (pm pre shot test).

Have you looked at the burrito or clothes pin pictures that Judy linked? A lot of people have good luck with those. And remember the calmer you are the calmer Prince will be.
 
yep that is a substanstial drop...with a drop like that it's a good time to get +4 and +6. are you seeing that the mid cycle numbers are the ones that tell you the most?
 
ohmygod_smile OK at +12 HE WAS 195 SO NO INSULIN AGAIN FOR TONIGHT.

This is so weird. If it continues going the same way then tomorrow morning his BG level will be high again for him to need insulin. We will see. He only seems to need insulin once a day then. :?

AS TO THE SPREADSHEET, I will look into getting it set up soon. I do work so I will do when I am on break (Thanksgiving week) I hope that is OK. I teach 1st grade and commute to work 40 miles each day. I am very busy but will do it then.
I will keep you posted tomorrow evening and let you know how it goes with the readings tomorrow. SORRY, since I work from 6 am to 4 pm tomorrow I will only be able to do the two readings that are prior to insulin due time. (+12)
THANKS AGAIN........ YOU GUYS ARE GREAT and Prince and I do thank you. :YMHUG:
 
I went back and re-read your info and it finally sunk in that you stopped giving him the dry food.

By removing the dry food and giving only the low carb wet his bg's are coming down on their own and now the 1 unit is too much insulin for him.

That is why you are getting that huge drop (mid cycle test) and he is too low to shoot at night which sends him high again in the morning.

Ideally you want his AMPS & PMPS to be about the same so that every 12 hour cycle he has a nice gentle drop and rise.

He needs insulin twice a day to stop those big swings, high, low, high, low.

If Prince were my cat I would lower the dose to 1/2 unit twice a day and let him even out.

Even if he is a little high for a few days at least you will be able to shoot twice a day. Better to be too high for a day than too low for a minute. Once he gets on a more stable shooting schedule you can re-evaluate.

Also, the antibiotics are starting to work on the infection, once the infection is cleared up his bg's may go back to normal by themselves and he may not need insulin any more. I would keep a close eye on his bg's.

His little body is still adjusting to the insulin and the swings are probably making him feel really crappy.

Is he on Prozinc? or a different PZI Insulin.
 
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