My 8 1/2 yr old cat, Leopold, was diagnosed with Diabetes in February. We still have been unable to get him on a good maintenance schedule. His glucose levels are still fluctuating and when I had him to vet's for a check up on Friday was still way over 400. He has lost most of his muscle mass in his hind quarters and now walks on his back legs to the point where he has lost all the hair there. He doesn't appear to be in pain but we don't know. He is being treated with MedaCam orally every few days to keep him more comfortable. He is on Hills W/D Dry & Wet food. We have 3 other pets at home & the costs of taking care of him means that we are now unable to take care of the others veterinary needs. He does not seem to be getting any better nor our we able to even get things under control so we can minimize his expenses and needs. The idea of putting him to sleep is more than I can bear but I also know that financially his expenses are destroying us. Leopold is very special to us and once upon a time actually played ping pong with my son and I regularly --- sorry to report he beat us more times than I care to admit!!!! Please help. We do not want our Leo to suffer but have no idea if he is in pain or not. He did have trouble urinating earlier a few months ago & the vet said it was "burning" for him. Don't know if that is still the case or not. Please help!!!
Newbie - need help
- Thread starter LindaM
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Deb & Wink
Member Since 2013
Welcome to the FDMB. We have a lot of knowledgeable people here that can help you. First some questions for you.
What insulin are you using?
How often do you give the insulin?
Does your cat like canned/wet food?
Does your cat Leo have other health issues besides the diabetes?
We have some money saving ideas. Would you be willing to learn to hometest? We have taught many people how to do this over the internet.
Where do you live? We may have someone in your area that is willing to teach you to home test.
Walking on the hocks is caused by nerve damage. It's called Diabetic Neuropathy. People get it too. The two best things you can do to help the Neuropathy is to get the BG's under control and give methlcobalamin. Zobaline is the cat recommended version, no ingredients dangerous for cats.
ETA: Metacam has a black box warning for cats and should not be used long term. It can cause sudden renal failure. Buprenorphine is a better choice. Please read this press release from the FDA from October 2010. http://www.fda.gov/AnimalVeterinary/NewsEvents/CVMUpdates/ucm231254.htm
What insulin are you using?
How often do you give the insulin?
Does your cat like canned/wet food?
Does your cat Leo have other health issues besides the diabetes?
We have some money saving ideas. Would you be willing to learn to hometest? We have taught many people how to do this over the internet.
Where do you live? We may have someone in your area that is willing to teach you to home test.
Walking on the hocks is caused by nerve damage. It's called Diabetic Neuropathy. People get it too. The two best things you can do to help the Neuropathy is to get the BG's under control and give methlcobalamin. Zobaline is the cat recommended version, no ingredients dangerous for cats.
ETA: Metacam has a black box warning for cats and should not be used long term. It can cause sudden renal failure. Buprenorphine is a better choice. Please read this press release from the FDA from October 2010. http://www.fda.gov/AnimalVeterinary/NewsEvents/CVMUpdates/ucm231254.htm
He is on ProZinc - 6 cc's twice a day. Leopold likes both dry & wet food. When he does not have dry cat food available he just helps himself to the dogs!!! Otherwise appears to be healthy although his coat is no longer what it once was. We would be willing to learn to hometest. We live in a western suburb of Detroit, MI.
Deb & Wink
Member Since 2013
So he eats contraband, the dog's food. ohmygod_smile Unfortunately, that is not good for him. If he is eating the dog food, that is probably keeping his BG levels too high. Even just a couple of pieces is bad.
One of the best changes we can make for our diabetic cats, is to feed them a low carb food, preferable canned for the additional moisture which is so important in a cat's diet. Low carb foods are those with <10% carb content. Fancy Feast classic pate style, Friskies pates and Wellness are a
few of the lower cost options.
Would you please tell us what food he is eating now? Brand and style (pate, slices, flaked, etc) for both the wet and dry food. Also, what dog food you are using. I'll look them up on the food chart and let you know the good, the bad and the ugly on those.
That 6 units of Prozinc is pretty high. I think a diet change is in order.
One of the best changes we can make for our diabetic cats, is to feed them a low carb food, preferable canned for the additional moisture which is so important in a cat's diet. Low carb foods are those with <10% carb content. Fancy Feast classic pate style, Friskies pates and Wellness are a
few of the lower cost options.
Would you please tell us what food he is eating now? Brand and style (pate, slices, flaked, etc) for both the wet and dry food. Also, what dog food you are using. I'll look them up on the food chart and let you know the good, the bad and the ugly on those.
That 6 units of Prozinc is pretty high. I think a diet change is in order.
Dry ...Hill's® Prescription Diet® w/d™ Feline Low Fat - Diabetic - Gastrointestinal Cat Food
Wet ... Hill's® Prescription Diet® w/d™ Low Fat - Diabetic - Gastrointestinal with Chicken Cat Food
Dog food ... NutriSource Adult Chicken & Rice Formula
We feed our other cat NutriSource Cat & Kitten Chicken & Rice Formula Dry Cat Food and Fancy Feast wet food
Wet ... Hill's® Prescription Diet® w/d™ Low Fat - Diabetic - Gastrointestinal with Chicken Cat Food
Dog food ... NutriSource Adult Chicken & Rice Formula
We feed our other cat NutriSource Cat & Kitten Chicken & Rice Formula Dry Cat Food and Fancy Feast wet food
Sue and Oliver (GA)
Member Since 2009
Have you seen this website by a vet - http://www.catinfo.org She makes a compelling case for feeding only wet food to cats.
It can make a huge difference in blood glucose levels. When we switched from dry to wet, our Oliver dropped 100 points overnight. We do advise not to make any switch untill you are testing at home. That next morning, if we had given Oliver his regular dose, he would have hypoed.
It can make a huge difference in blood glucose levels. When we switched from dry to wet, our Oliver dropped 100 points overnight. We do advise not to make any switch untill you are testing at home. That next morning, if we had given Oliver his regular dose, he would have hypoed.
Wendy&Tiggy(GA)
Member Since 2011
If you can get him to just eat the fancy feast that would help a lot - but it has to be the classic pates or something from the below list. You do need to home test before you make this change. Advantages of home testing is that you get a much better idea of whats going on with him ,keep him safe, and dont have to take him to the vet for expensive curves.
FYI in case you didnt know - PZI lasts up to four months if you store it in the fridge.
Wendy
carbs in % . .
4% - fancy feast CLASSICS chicken feast- 546 - beware of those that are not classics ...
4%- fancy feast chopped grilled feast pate
2%- fancy feast cod, sole & shrimp feast pate
4%- fancy feast Ocean Whitefish and tuna pate
1% -fancy feast Savory Salmon feast pate
5% -fancy feast Tender beef feast pate
5% -fancy feast Tender beef and chicken feast pate
5% - fancy feast Tender beef and liver feast pate
4% -fancy feast Tender liver and chicken feast pate
3% - fancy feast Turkey & giblets feast pate
5% -fancy feast salmon and shrimp feast
4% -fancy feast kitten tender turkey feast
5% - fancy feast kitten tender ocean whitefish feast
5% -fancy feast chunky chicken feast
7% - fancy feast chunky turkey feast
7% -fancy feast chunky chopped grill feast
8% - fancy feast Flaked chicken and tuna feast
0% - fancy feast Flaked fish and shrimp feast
8% - fancy feast Flaked Salmon and whitefish feast
7% - fancy feast Flaked Trout feast
FYI in case you didnt know - PZI lasts up to four months if you store it in the fridge.
Wendy
carbs in % . .
4% - fancy feast CLASSICS chicken feast- 546 - beware of those that are not classics ...
4%- fancy feast chopped grilled feast pate
2%- fancy feast cod, sole & shrimp feast pate
4%- fancy feast Ocean Whitefish and tuna pate
1% -fancy feast Savory Salmon feast pate
5% -fancy feast Tender beef feast pate
5% -fancy feast Tender beef and chicken feast pate
5% - fancy feast Tender beef and liver feast pate
4% -fancy feast Tender liver and chicken feast pate
3% - fancy feast Turkey & giblets feast pate
5% -fancy feast salmon and shrimp feast
4% -fancy feast kitten tender turkey feast
5% - fancy feast kitten tender ocean whitefish feast
5% -fancy feast chunky chicken feast
7% - fancy feast chunky turkey feast
7% -fancy feast chunky chopped grill feast
8% - fancy feast Flaked chicken and tuna feast
0% - fancy feast Flaked fish and shrimp feast
8% - fancy feast Flaked Salmon and whitefish feast
7% - fancy feast Flaked Trout feast
Deb & Wink
Member Since 2013
LindaM said:
All of these following carb percentages are expressed on a dry matter basis, so we can compare apples to apples as they say( dry to wet).
Hill's W/D dry - 37.2% carbs per the Hill's company website
Hill's W/D et - 26.4% carbs per the Hill's company website
Nutrisource Adult Chicken & Rice Formula dry food, 47.7% carbs per carb calculator
Nutrisource Cat & Kitten Chicken and Rice Formula dry cat food, 36.6% carbs per carb calculator.
All of these foods are too high in carbohydrates for a diabetic cat. We have found that a low carb food, <10% is best for a diabetic. It can drop the BG 100 points when switching to a low carb food. We can make some recommendations if you like.
Which Fancy Feast styles does your other cat eat? Is your cat Leo, the diabetic, able to sneak that food too?
EllenandRover
Member Since 2011
High carb food equals higher blood sugar levels. ProZinc is a great insulin but W/D is a terrible food. Your vet has probably prescribed higher amounts of insulin as a result of the reaction to the high carb food. Correcting that will require that you learn to home test with a glucometer. Are you willing to take that next step? It is the best thing you can do for him at this time because it gives you information about how he is doing. And it gives you the tools you need to help him get better.
I also have multiple pets. What I had to learn to do was control the diabetic cat's access to the other pets' food. As a result, we ended up switching to controlled meal times rather than free feeding. Everyone eats at once and then bowls are picked up and gone. That may not be possible for you, depending on your schedule, of course. But I just wanted to share that.
There are many great people here willing and able to help you understand the process of caring for a diabetic cat. It's a journey, but as you know, we all think our fur babies are worth it.
I also have multiple pets. What I had to learn to do was control the diabetic cat's access to the other pets' food. As a result, we ended up switching to controlled meal times rather than free feeding. Everyone eats at once and then bowls are picked up and gone. That may not be possible for you, depending on your schedule, of course. But I just wanted to share that.
There are many great people here willing and able to help you understand the process of caring for a diabetic cat. It's a journey, but as you know, we all think our fur babies are worth it.
Deb & Wink
Member Since 2013
First a shopping list of supplies. Here is the link so you can print it directly: https://docs.google.com/document/d/10aMJygUoyodh8lMhnx65YaQmg3s18XJdhldhDKIjCsw/edit?pli=1
New Member Shopping List
1) Glucometer. Walmart’s ReliOn meters are a popular choice on FDMB. The ReliOn Prime’s test strips are only $9 for a bottle of 50. Relion Confirm is $18 for a box of 50. Takes a slightly smaller blood drop.
2) Test Strips to go with your new Glucometer. Make sure you have plenty of extra strips at all times. You do not want to run out when your cat suddenly decides to take a swan dive to the 40’s.
3) Lancets. Make sure you get plenty of lancets. Get a thicker gauge (28 g) at first so that it is easier to get a blood drop to form. These are labeled 'for alternate site testing'.
4) Cotton Balls /Tissues/Cosmetic Pads to hold against the ear when testing and to staunch blood after poke. I use a wadded up tissue, but other members use cotton balls or cosmetic pads. You can use any of the above, just make sure it’s hygienic .
5) Antibacterial Ointment. Neosporin with pain relief or any ointment like it. Make sure you get an ointment, not a cream.
6) Ketone Test Strips such as Ketostix. These are urine strips to test for Ketones and can be found at most pharmacies or Walmart. Some glucometers will also accept ketone blood test strips. This is a good alternative for those with a multi-cat household or who have a hard time catching a sample.
7) Low Carbohydrate Wet Food. See Dr. Pierson’s list for commercial cat foods. It is recommended that diabetics eat less that 10% carbs. http://www.catinfo.org/docs/FoodChartPublic9-22-12.pdf Some popular brands fed by members include Fancy Feast Classic Pates, Friskies Pates, Wellness, Evo, and Merrick's Before Grain. Find a food that is nutritionally sound and affordable. There's no need to break the bank or buy Rx food.
8) High Carbohydrate Wet Food. Keep a couple of cans on hand for emergencies in case your cat drops too low. Look for a wet food with gravy. See Dr. Lisa’s chart above for a food over 10% carbs.
9) Corn Syrup or Honey. Corn syrup (such as Karo) or honey can be used in place of the HC wet food by mixing a drop or two into LC wet food. It’s a good idea to have some in addition to HC food in the case of emergency. If your cat refuses to eat or goes into a hypo coma, you can rub karo directly onto their gums.
10) Diabetic Appropriate Treats. Freeze dried chicken and turkey are popular with most kitties. Make sure you give kitty a treat after testing to reward him or her!
11) Sharps Container to hold used syringes and lancets. I use an old laundry detergent bottle. Make sure you check local regulations on disposal.
12) Chocolate/candy/wine/your favorite treat. For you!
13) Rice to make a rice sock. (optional.) Fill a clean sock with rice and tie it off. The rice sock can be heated in the microwave and then pressed against kitty's ear to encourage bleeding. Some members use a warm washcloth or paper towel as alternatives.
Next read through these test tips in this link https://docs.google.com/document/d/13c_CPZVKz27fD_6aVbsguadJKvjSrSAkD7flgPPhEag/pub and watch a couple of youtube videos. Then come back and ask questions.
ETA: I also love this write up by member Kpassa. https://sites.google.com/site/michelangeloprofilefdmb/feline-diabetes/ear-testing-psychology The 'how to make your cat more accepting of the process' or 'ear testing psychology'. It's part of the ear testing tips document but many people over look it. so I like to point it out separately.
We may have someone who lives close enough to you to give you a hands on demo. Where do you live?
New Member Shopping List
1) Glucometer. Walmart’s ReliOn meters are a popular choice on FDMB. The ReliOn Prime’s test strips are only $9 for a bottle of 50. Relion Confirm is $18 for a box of 50. Takes a slightly smaller blood drop.
2) Test Strips to go with your new Glucometer. Make sure you have plenty of extra strips at all times. You do not want to run out when your cat suddenly decides to take a swan dive to the 40’s.
3) Lancets. Make sure you get plenty of lancets. Get a thicker gauge (28 g) at first so that it is easier to get a blood drop to form. These are labeled 'for alternate site testing'.
4) Cotton Balls /Tissues/Cosmetic Pads to hold against the ear when testing and to staunch blood after poke. I use a wadded up tissue, but other members use cotton balls or cosmetic pads. You can use any of the above, just make sure it’s hygienic .
5) Antibacterial Ointment. Neosporin with pain relief or any ointment like it. Make sure you get an ointment, not a cream.
6) Ketone Test Strips such as Ketostix. These are urine strips to test for Ketones and can be found at most pharmacies or Walmart. Some glucometers will also accept ketone blood test strips. This is a good alternative for those with a multi-cat household or who have a hard time catching a sample.
7) Low Carbohydrate Wet Food. See Dr. Pierson’s list for commercial cat foods. It is recommended that diabetics eat less that 10% carbs. http://www.catinfo.org/docs/FoodChartPublic9-22-12.pdf Some popular brands fed by members include Fancy Feast Classic Pates, Friskies Pates, Wellness, Evo, and Merrick's Before Grain. Find a food that is nutritionally sound and affordable. There's no need to break the bank or buy Rx food.
8) High Carbohydrate Wet Food. Keep a couple of cans on hand for emergencies in case your cat drops too low. Look for a wet food with gravy. See Dr. Lisa’s chart above for a food over 10% carbs.
9) Corn Syrup or Honey. Corn syrup (such as Karo) or honey can be used in place of the HC wet food by mixing a drop or two into LC wet food. It’s a good idea to have some in addition to HC food in the case of emergency. If your cat refuses to eat or goes into a hypo coma, you can rub karo directly onto their gums.
10) Diabetic Appropriate Treats. Freeze dried chicken and turkey are popular with most kitties. Make sure you give kitty a treat after testing to reward him or her!
11) Sharps Container to hold used syringes and lancets. I use an old laundry detergent bottle. Make sure you check local regulations on disposal.
12) Chocolate/candy/wine/your favorite treat. For you!
13) Rice to make a rice sock. (optional.) Fill a clean sock with rice and tie it off. The rice sock can be heated in the microwave and then pressed against kitty's ear to encourage bleeding. Some members use a warm washcloth or paper towel as alternatives.
Next read through these test tips in this link https://docs.google.com/document/d/13c_CPZVKz27fD_6aVbsguadJKvjSrSAkD7flgPPhEag/pub and watch a couple of youtube videos. Then come back and ask questions.
ETA: I also love this write up by member Kpassa. https://sites.google.com/site/michelangeloprofilefdmb/feline-diabetes/ear-testing-psychology The 'how to make your cat more accepting of the process' or 'ear testing psychology'. It's part of the ear testing tips document but many people over look it. so I like to point it out separately.
We may have someone who lives close enough to you to give you a hands on demo. Where do you live?
Wendy&Tiggy(GA)
Member Since 2011
Let us know when you get the supplies. Home testing can be challenging the first few times... depending on how much of a bleeder Leopold is. Until you get the meter you can prepare him for this.. start touching and rubbing his ears - and give him a treat after. That ail get him used to it. Do it every few hours.
Phoebe_TiggyGA_NortonGA
Member Since 2009
Hi LindaM,
I live in Walled Lake & work in Plymouth at M14 & Beck Road.
I could give you some start up supplies and show you how to home test Leopold (assuming he's not afraid of strangers).
I will send you a PM (private message) with my phone number if you would like to meet.
phoebe
I live in Walled Lake & work in Plymouth at M14 & Beck Road.
I could give you some start up supplies and show you how to home test Leopold (assuming he's not afraid of strangers).
I will send you a PM (private message) with my phone number if you would like to meet.
phoebe
TheBowHuntress
Member Since 2012
(Hey Deb, the GB&U sounds like a certain harnessed someone I know :lol: ) Regarding the diet change--most certainly! And there are a lot of very inexpensive, low-carb canned foods out there; some even better than HillsDeb & Wink said:
Phoebe_TiggyGA_NortonGA
Member Since 2009
Linda contacted me, and we will be meeting on Tuesday to home-test Leo and talk about FD and the sugar dance.
Deb & Wink
Member Since 2013
That's great that you will be meeting with Linda to walk her through the home testing and talk to her about managing this sugardance with Leopold. She is in good hands.
Wendy&Tiggy(GA)
Member Since 2011
How did the home testing go?
Home testing is not going well. I feel like the Creature from the Black Lagoon and Leopold's personal torturer!! In all the times we have tried I have gotten 1 reading and that was on Sunday. We are continuing to try to get this going but until we can get regular readings we are afraid to make any adjustments in either his food or insulin intake. Phoebe has been a great support system.
Deb & Wink
Member Since 2013
If you can describe what you are doing for the testing process, maybe we can see something and suggest a change.
Deb & Wink
Member Since 2013
A couple of tips for you to try. I have a black cat too with long hair on his ears.
1. Shave a tiny patch of fur on his ears. I used a safety razor and very lightly stroked it over the fur to shave off a tiny spot of fur, along the edge. It really helped me to see better when first starting out with the ear pokes. It also helped to prevent the blood from soaking into the fur.
I could also see the vein raised up a little bit, knew my warming and ear rubbing had got the blood flowing and could see better where to poke, off to the side of the vein, towards the ear edge.
2. Take a small hand held flashlight and turn it on. Shine it up from underneath the ear, from the inside of the ear. This will highlight the vein and all those little capillaries.
The flashlight gives you a hard surface to poke against also.
3. Do you have a microwave? Take a small amount of uncooked rice or peas or beans, a couple of tablespoons, and put them into the toe of a clean cotton sock. Tie the top closed. Warm the sock in the microwave about 20-30 seconds until warm but not uncomfortably so and put that on the ear to help warm it.
If you do not have a microwave, vigorous rubbing of the ear will help to get the blood flowing. That is what I did.
You can also pour very hot almost boiling water over a wash cloth and put the washcloth in a plastic bag. Use that to warm the ear. Wink hated the plastic bag on his ear so I gave up on that method.
4. You can try to do two quick pokes right next to each other to ooze into a single larger drop.
5. You can 'milk' the ear. Hold your thumb on the lower part of the vein to damn the blood from flowing back down after your poke. Gently run your thumb along the vein to push the blood up towards the poke spot.
Try these tips first. It takes time. The ears will also grow new capillaries over time, making it easier to get blood in the future. It's called angiogenesis. (Learned this from BJM)
Are you freehanding the lancet or using the lancet pen?
More tips here for getting blood: https://docs.google.com/document/d/13c_CPZVKz27fD_6aVbsguadJKvjSrSAkD7flgPPhEag/pub
1. Shave a tiny patch of fur on his ears. I used a safety razor and very lightly stroked it over the fur to shave off a tiny spot of fur, along the edge. It really helped me to see better when first starting out with the ear pokes. It also helped to prevent the blood from soaking into the fur.
I could also see the vein raised up a little bit, knew my warming and ear rubbing had got the blood flowing and could see better where to poke, off to the side of the vein, towards the ear edge.
2. Take a small hand held flashlight and turn it on. Shine it up from underneath the ear, from the inside of the ear. This will highlight the vein and all those little capillaries.
The flashlight gives you a hard surface to poke against also.
3. Do you have a microwave? Take a small amount of uncooked rice or peas or beans, a couple of tablespoons, and put them into the toe of a clean cotton sock. Tie the top closed. Warm the sock in the microwave about 20-30 seconds until warm but not uncomfortably so and put that on the ear to help warm it.
If you do not have a microwave, vigorous rubbing of the ear will help to get the blood flowing. That is what I did.
You can also pour very hot almost boiling water over a wash cloth and put the washcloth in a plastic bag. Use that to warm the ear. Wink hated the plastic bag on his ear so I gave up on that method.
4. You can try to do two quick pokes right next to each other to ooze into a single larger drop.
5. You can 'milk' the ear. Hold your thumb on the lower part of the vein to damn the blood from flowing back down after your poke. Gently run your thumb along the vein to push the blood up towards the poke spot.
Try these tips first. It takes time. The ears will also grow new capillaries over time, making it easier to get blood in the future. It's called angiogenesis. (Learned this from BJM)
Are you freehanding the lancet or using the lancet pen?
More tips here for getting blood: https://docs.google.com/document/d/13c_CPZVKz27fD_6aVbsguadJKvjSrSAkD7flgPPhEag/pub
Wendy&Tiggy(GA)
Member Since 2011
Which meter did you buy? The prime needs twice as much blood as the confirm...
Wendy&Tiggy(GA)
Member Since 2011
And wasnt another member going to come over and help show you?
Phoebe_TiggyGA_NortonGA
Member Since 2009
I met with Linda and Leopold on June 4th, showed her how to hometest and gave her some supplies including an Infinity meter.
On approx June 14th, Leo quit eating and was laying around lethargic and sick (vomiting). She stopped giving insulin on Saturday when he was still not eating (his bg was below 200). She took Leo to ER on Sunday, and he was in distress. He crossed the bridge on Monday, 6/17.
very sad and hugs to Leo's family
On approx June 14th, Leo quit eating and was laying around lethargic and sick (vomiting). She stopped giving insulin on Saturday when he was still not eating (his bg was below 200). She took Leo to ER on Sunday, and he was in distress. He crossed the bridge on Monday, 6/17.
very sad and hugs to Leo's family
Simon'sMommy
Member Since 2013
Fly free Leo! wings_cat
Deb & Wink
Member Since 2013
Thank you for all the help and kind words. We are very grateful. I am sure that when I can stop crying I will be able to focus on and only remember all the fun, love and joy that Leopold brought into our lives. Just not there yet. Thank you again for all you did to help us and God Bless you and all of your little feline buddies!
Wendy&Tiggy(GA)
Member Since 2011
I am so sorry to hear this, sorry for your loss
((Hugs))
((Hugs))
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