Newbie, looking for others in Hampton Roads VA

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Catannc

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Hi Everyone,
I've been lurking about on an off for a couple weeks, cat diagnosed 2/7, 8.5 years, 9.1 lbs. First visit with a new vet, dropped hocks, blood sugar 450, sent us home with hill's W/d dry and 1 unit Prozinc 2xday. She didn't want home monitoring done.
After 3 shots, my cat was acting off so i fed her some high carb food, ran off to get a glucose meter, got back and tested her 45-60 minutes after the food and sure enough, 60 mg/dl. We skipped the insulin that night and called the vet in the morning, she altered her dose down to 1/2 unit BID. So we do that for a week, I started testing regularly, and fasting was typically now in the low 500s. So the vet alters her dose to 1 unit am, 1/2 unit pm. One weeks later, still not having any meaningful response, and really values are all over the place with no real pattern. Vet tells me to wait another week and go to 1 unit BID.
I had been questioning why this cat had gotten worse after starting treatment, higher blood sugars at home and on insulin than in the vet's office. Then I noticed the %carbs in the food they'd prescribed was quite a bit higher than what she had eaten previously. So this past Friday evening I whipped up some of Dr. Pierson's semi-raw food, fed her that with her 1/2 unit (BG 475) and the next day her fasting BG is 381, the lowest she's ever been. So I give the 1 unit knowing I will have to watch her, at 4 hours she is at 100. Now, my vet had told me don't let her drop quickly below 100 because of her earlier reaction, so I gave her a little of her new food, and she went up to 187 in an hour. So Sat evening continued with the half unit, but didn't see the same drop, in 4 hours she went from 352 to 284. Sun morning her fasting was 323, I didn't feel comfortable with the 1 unit so I dosed her with 1/2. I still was worried, so tested her a little early and at 3 hours she is at 120. Again, per the vet, she might go too low so I gave her a bit of food, 171 at 4 hours. Of course, after some reading I now know I should have let her go below 100 and just monitored her, but I was listening to the Dr. . Small setbacks in fasting BG at the next mealtimes, but nothing I can do now.
So the good news is that we are no longer constantly in the 400-550 range, the bad news is the vet is not happy, wants her back on Hills but is willing for her to go on the wet variety which is still too high in carbs, tells me that even though my cat's kidneys are great I'm going to hurt her by feeding this unhealthy (5% carb) low carb diet to her (didn't even want to bring up that I was making the food at this point, so gave her the name of a comparable wet food instead), and that since I've altered her food and insulin there is no way to predict what is going on and she can't offer me any guidance for adjusting insulin at this point: I'm on my own. I think I need another new vet, anyone in the greater Hampton Roads area who has found someone who uses tight regulation with low carbs? I can travel a bit, but I am located in Newport News.
 
hi there and welcome. just wanted to pop in real quick as i'm getting ready for work and let you know i know someone not far away from there that has an awesome vet, if you end up needing a new one. i'll send her a message and see what she says. if she's too far she might know someone closer to you
 
Welcome! It sounds like you have a much better handle on Feline Diabetes than your vet. Diet is good (she isn't there when you feed her so she doesn't have to know what your cat is eating), a mild long lasting insulin and hometesting. Fantastic!

Here is a document on ProZinc. Too long but good reading and lots of info.

http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=32799

We have a forum just for PZI users. It is busiest in the early morning and later afternoon and evening. You might want to read some of the threads there and look at some of the spreadsheets to see how other people are dosing.

http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewforum.php?f=24

We also have a great color coded spreadsheet to keep your numbers on. Good info for you and us and your new vet. It's a little tricky. If you need help, ask.

http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=18207

Cindy knows everyone. Hope her contact can help you with a new vet. I found several people in Virginia Beach and Arlington....

Hopefully we will be able to help you with your kitty. It sounds like you are definitely headed in the right direction!
 
I'm at work right now & super busy. I didn't read your entire post but the area caught my eye. I'm in Hampton & can help you. I think I know who Cindy is contacting & she does have a great vet in Va Beach, who I have switched to also. I just read a bit about your vet....don't go back there. If you want to travel to VB call Bay Beach Vet 757-340-3913 and make an appt with Dr Thompson. She knows about the board & wants to see your SS!! I will get back with you later.
 
Welcome! I'm not in your area so I can't offer vet advice, but I just wanted to reassure you that you are absolutely doing the right thing, and your vet's recommendations are not right. W/D is just about the worst thing you can feed a diabetic cat--in fact, I am convinced it caused my cat's diabetes in the first place because of the crazy high carb levels. Low carb food absolutely does NOT hurt a cat's kidneys--I have no idea why on earth your vet would tell you that. My cat with kidney disease ate a low carb, low phosphorus diet and thrived on it. In fact, the moisture in canned or raw food keeps the cat hydrated which HELPS the kidneys a great deal--chronically dehydrated cats on a dry diet are more apt to develop kidney problems. Your vet's unwillingness to educate herself and her (false) scare tactics would send me running for a new vet!

You're doing great by educating yourself, making your own food, and testing frequently! Keep up the awesome job, and I hope you find a vet that will work with you. They don't have to be experts (vets can't possibly be expected to know every aspect of every treatment for every disease with every animal), but they do have to be willing to work with you when you say, "This is the treatment that is proven to be best for my cat, so this is what we are doing."
 
Thanks guys,

That spreadsheet template is awesome, here's what I have for her so far. Lots of missing data cause the vet seemed to think I was stressing myself and the cat too much by doing too many tests, even though my cat doesn't even notice anything is happening to her. Some small setbacks over the last couple days with giving the additional food, my vet said "keep the cat above 100 or you're risking a symogyi effect again". I am pretty confident that had I not given the food we would not have seen any 400's after switching her over to the low carb diet. I am pretty much on my own in terms of determining her insulin, my vet basically told me my guess is as good as hers. I'm starting to think her values from the 25th look optimal, she was on 1 unit am then but I got scared. My vet, again, has told me that switching insulin doses is a good way to crash her BG, so I kept her on the .5 this morning. The only good thing about the .5 dose is it seems to pretty consistently be lowering her fasting BG 30ish points each time, if I don't freak out and feed her. Since she is still on an overall downward trend, would it be smart to keep her on the same dose? Will switch to VaBeach, but because of work and the time It will take to get there I can't make it for a week, so I'll be on my own (with your assistance) until then.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc ... WNYU1NfS0E

Oh, her bloodwork was fine except her liver was a little "angry". Vet prescribed Marin as a supplement, starting to wonder if she knows anything so anyone know if this is safe to give?
 
Spreadsheet looks great. What lovely blues are scattered through there. The PZI forum is quiet now, but I would suggest you post later this afternoon and ask for feedback on your dose.

I think your vet was pretty cautious about not going below 100. We generally like them 50 and above at their lowest point in the cycle. If they go down into the 40s, then we intervene with food. The question is always "Does this cat need to settle into a dose?" or "Shall I change the dose according to the preshot/nadir numbers?" The only way to know is to experiment. We usually suggest the settling method first to see how she responds.

You had nice numbers on one unit but you also changed food recently. That can make drastic changes downward with the blood glucose levels.

Come over and introduce yourself in PZI and get some input on your numbers tonight. (I post in Health and in PZI, so will see you there.)

I don't know anything about Marin. You might use the search engine on the forum and see if you get any hits.
 
Catannc said:
Hi Everyone,
the bad news is the vet is not happy, wants her back on Hills but is willing for her to go on the wet variety which is still too high in carbs, tells me that even though my cat's kidneys are great I'm going to hurt her by feeding this unhealthy (5% carb) low carb diet to her

Not going to bash. Not going to bash. Not... wow what an unread vet you have. :shock:

You've done a fantastic job, I'm really proud of you! I live in Virginia Beach. What you need is not necessarily a vet that promotes lc/tr treatment, you need a vet who accepts it. It's going to be very difficult to find a vet who specializes in FD, let alone one who doesn't follow the Hills party line. My vet is one of those vets, she's pretty terrific. She's seen 4 of my own diabetics and several of my fosters, plus she's currently seeing another cat on this board who lives in Hampton (just now read the rest of the thread and see Barbara has posted :smile: ). I know that's a really long drive for you, but if you're interested, she's here: http://www.baybeachvets.com and her name is Dr. Heidi Thompson. The board knows her as "The Fabulous Dr. T" :lol:

I have my PMs turned off because I'm too airheaded to remember to come get them, but if you'd like to contact me, my email is wnstnbabe at gmail and I'll be glad to give you more information!
 
I have nothing to add other than welcome to the site and I am glad you have been given a very great vet to see; your current vet seems to want you to keep your cat sick.

I had to smile that your vet said do not home test, but when you went against the vet's advice and tested, the vet said to stay above 100.... interesting - just HOW did that vet figure you would know about going below 100 if you were NOT testing?

Just goes to show you that you were wise to test and go against that vet who is hopefully going to become your previous vet soon. Take back that bad dry food to the vet office and get a refund; it's horrible for diabetics. I think it's fantastic that you are feeding food recommended by Dr Pierson!

You are going to LOVE your new vet!!
 
Thanks, this vet was starting to make me think I was crazy. She'll probably be rather happy to get rid of me, as everything i do is "wrong". She also warned me about going to sites like these because of the "misinformation" prevalent on the internet. @-)
 
As for the food being refunded, the one good thing is I have already sent in a rebate to cover the full amount, so I'm not out anything. Maybe I'll burn it, should flare up pretty good? :-D

For those in the area who are on a raw/semi raw diet, any local sources for chicken hearts? Also, being that most cat foods are not made from premium, organic, antibiotic free meats, how important is it to find liver/hearts that are? Haven't seen any liver that is above regular grade but I know the liver stores toxins? Can I use the regular livers as that's probably what's being used in cat food?
 
This vet has a great site with recipes/resources for raw food: http://www.catinfo.org

Yes, we are crazy cat people on the internet - 16 years now. But this site "sees" more cats daily than most vets do in a year. And we have a protocol - wet, lo carb, mild insulin and hometesting - that has worked, time after time.
 
Catannc said:
Thanks, this vet was starting to make me think I was crazy. She'll probably be rather happy to get rid of me, as everything i do is "wrong". She also warned me about going to sites like these because of the "misinformation" prevalent on the internet. @-)

There is misinformation on the web, but there's also a ton of good information--the difference is just knowing what sources to trust. Pretty much all of what we advocate here can be backed up by scholarly journals, so we're not just making stuff up. When I changed vets, I went in armed with articles (including the American Animal Hospital Association Diabetes Guidelines) to back up my choices in case they were in conflict with the vet. If you'll look at p. 3 (217), you'll see it says to feed low carb canned foods, and on p. 4 (218), it says to home test. However, my new vet was very open and very pleased that I already knew what I was doing, and actually ended up changing their treatment guidelines for all of their diabetic cats after reading some of the stuff I brought them. To me, that is a good vet. Willing to admit they were a little behind in their recommendations, and excited to change and see better results in all their patients because of it. A vet that puts their own ego ahead of their patients is certainly not someone I want treating my cat. Can you imagine if a human doctor stubbornly advocated treating a type 2 diabetic child with high sugar junk diet and was against testing before giving him insulin? He'd be sued for malpractice.

Not trying to vet bash--I just want to point out that a vet doesn't have to be perfect to be a good vet--if your vet said "I'd like to see where you are getting your information about low carb food" and was willing to do some reading instead of trying to scare you into towing the line with her, it'd be a different story.
 
Catannc said:
As for the food being refunded, the one good thing is I have already sent in a rebate to cover the full amount, so I'm not out anything. Maybe I'll burn it, should flare up pretty good? :-D

For those in the area who are on a raw/semi raw diet, any local sources for chicken hearts? Also, being that most cat foods are not made from premium, organic, antibiotic free meats, how important is it to find liver/hearts that are? Haven't seen any liver that is above regular grade but I know the liver stores toxins? Can I use the regular livers as that's probably what's being used in cat food?

Have you checked with local butchers? We have only a couple over here, so you may have to check Wmsburg/Toano areas (ie: out of the city)
 
Barbara let me know of a vet she had found that had recently changed practices that had a link to this page on their website. Just happens it is a vet I saw a few years back who stressed to me that ALL cats should be on a low carb, high protein wet food, and that the best options were not the prescription varieties. I plan on talking to him and see how he treats diabetics since he's within 10 minutes, if not I will be going to the beach! Let you know how it goes.

Cathy
 
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