newbie Kitty Boo in Columbus, Ohio

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emmabirch

Member Since 2014
Hello, I am Emma and my cat is Kitty Boo. He is a Hemingway cat and is 13 years old. Kitty boo was diagnosed with diabetes in February of this year and he was doing well on 2 units of Lantus 2 times a day. However on Sunday May 4th, he took a spell of not eating...was scared, took him to the vet and his sugar was over 400...but because he wasn't eating, and I didn't know how to test him, I was afraid to give him insulin. Since May 4th, we have him back to his old self..I am giving him currently 1.5 units 2 times a day and he is eating Friskies pate. He weighs 12 pounds now and that is up from a low of 9 pounds back in February. However his sugars are still running up in the 200's and I am wonder what I should do next. you can see his test on my spreadsheet on my signature. I am currently trying to test 2 times a day because I still haven't gotten very good at it and even though he is pretty patient, his ears are starting to get sore (because I keep having to poke him as I am not hitting the blood) and now he is fighting me on testing. Any suggestions?

I appreciate you guidance on my next steps.

Emma & Kitty Boo
 
Re: Newbie to this forum but not to DCIN

You really need to get some mid cycle tests in as you need to know how low this dose is taking him so you can tell what kind of dose change is needed - could go up or down. We can't judge how he is doing by pre shot numbers only since those are usually highest of the day.

Try and get a midday one or one a few hours after PMPS (just before bed?) - for a few days in a row.

Wendy
 
Re: Newbie to this forum but not to DCIN

Welcome Emma and extra sweet Kitty Boo.

Oh how I feel for you on testing even though I'm an old hand at it my recent foster Cali put me through the ringer when it came to teaching her about testing. She not only fought me she was down right dangerous to handle so I'll share my tips that took Cali from a screaming biting monster to a little girl that happily trots to her testing spot begging to be tested.

First are you using the lancing device or free handing it? If its the device I highly recommend freehand. Either with just the lancet alone or with the lancing device as merely a handle without the cap on. Not only will this make it easier to see where your poking it also eliminates that scary noise of the device. Find a treat that Kitty Boo loves but only give it at test times..for Cali its tuna. Make sure the spot is the same every time and that spot is well lit..window sills are wonderful because the cat has things to look at and you have lots of natural light. But really anywhere you can see well and is comfy for the kitty works. In fact my 3 all have different spots lol. Autumn on my lap, Cassanova the bathroom sink and Cali her bed.

Once you get testing down pat, we highly recommend at least 3 tests per day, both preshots and a midcycle with a formal curve once a week or every couple weeks where you test every two hours.

With Lantus your nadir or lowest point is the most critical in determining dose changes.

Mel and The Fur Gang
 
Re: Newbie to this forum but not to DCIN

i note on your spreadsheet that your diabetic got into the non-diabetic's food dish the other day. I strongly recommend that cats in the house be put on the same food as your sugar cat. Not only will it eliminate the risk of kitty eating the wrong food, it will be good for the civvies as well. My fat boy is now a slim and trim handsome boy thanks to his diabetic sister showing him the way re low carb food.
 
Re: Newbie to this forum but not to DCIN

Thanks Shelly that saves me a lot of digging on the main board :-D

Mel and The Fur Gang
 
Re: Newbie to this forum but not to DCIN

Thanks everyone for your information. I will try those, especially the help with testing! I tried testing before he ate, but he was having nothing to do with it..he was hungry!! So I have to give him a spoonful and then the treat. Boo loves chicken, and I eat a lot of chicken so I always have some to give him.

However it had been over a week since he vomited, but night before last he vomited all of his food again. With his sensitive stomach, I am curious, as Kitty boo always was one to eat small amounts more often.

So has anyone discussed about feeding smaller amount and feeding him more often? I will say with the small amounts, he does better, but with eating twice a day, he is still hungry, and if I give him a little more, he vomits. I am thinking he may be like me, and feed several times a day, with less food, and this might also help with any sugar lows he "may" have..I am going to try to check him today 7 hours after his shot.

but just asking instead of feeding twice a day, to keep it the same amount of food (1 can a day) only give it to him in smaller amounts?

Oh thanks Shelly for attaching the link...thought it was with my signature?

Emma
 
Re: Newbie to this forum but not to DCIN

Emma

Most of us feed small frequent meals, because just like human diabetics its easier on their pancreas. Mine eat about a quarter can 4 times a day.

Now I'm curious...I see your a human diabetic that uses Levemir, so why are you using Lantus with Boo? Did you know you could just use what's left in your pens for him? That's what I did for years with mine. My mother was a human diabetic and she would give me her pens after they would no longer dial down a dose then I'd use a syringe to draw out Autumn's dose. There's usually a good 10-15 units in one of those pens when they no longer work as a self contained unit for humans. That would save you a ton of money right there.

And I'm biased I know but I actually find Levemir an easier insulin to work with than Lantus. All 3 of mine are Levemir babies.

Mel and The Fur Gang
 
Re: Newbie to this forum but not to DCIN

That's a good point. I do use a lot of levimer (sp) but someone told me about lantus and I had been on it before they switched me, and I had some left over pens so I am using those. I use the amount left in my pens too. I take a syringe and get that remainder out as i finish a pen. I am on Medicare, and I am also a 2 times transplant (liver) due to Hep c. right now I am on immune suppressors, which i get help (a grant) to pay for them, but when I get them filled the first time of the year then it takes all of my insurance amount so the next $4700 has to come out of my pocket so to speak, so I have to pay the full discounted price until I can fill them again (90 days) so for 3 months there are some medications I can not afford on SSDI. So I have to make my insulin (as these are one of them that are too expensive) last or extend thru these 90 days. After I get thru the donut hole, then they are a cost of about $30.00 a month. It is a shame they don't put this much needed med down in tier/cost to like 2 or 6 dollars a month for elderly. I am also taking a new med (started May 2) that the cost is $62,000 a month..I am getting help with this one too. But you see, cost is prohibitive for extra supplies and as much as I want my Kitty Boo to continue to be here with me (he has been with me since before I was sick and thru my two transplants) I can't afford much of this. I am trying to get my doctor to increase my amounts I get so that maybe this can be done, but Medicare is so strict on their guidelines.

I really appreciate the info about feeding 4 times a day, as that is what I want to do, feed him 4 times a day...I think his blood sugars are pretty stable in the low 200's or high 180-190's but I feel I need to check that mid time for a little while longer?

Emma
 
Re: Newbie to this forum but not to DCIN

Yep you're probably going to want to get a few more mid-cycle tests first. Some great money saving tips on either Lantus or Levemir is to buy from Canada its almost a fourth the price it is in the States. I know I get the kids Levemir from a friend that lives near enough to the border to run across for me although I've also had wonderful luck using an online Canadian pharmacy. I know Levemir costs me about $320 for 5 pack and is about $114 for the Canadian. Now granted its been awhile since I've had to buy any because when my mom past away 2 years ago she had just refilled her 6 month supply script and willed Autumn her insulin so I had 35 pens at half a unit those pens lasted a very long time lol. Although now I'm using it for 3 (2 of my own and a foster girl) I still get about 2-3 months from 1 pen.

Boo is looking really good for a recent diabetic. :-D but once you get a few more mid-cycles we can probably fine tune his dose just a little to bring him down a little more and possibly get him into remission. I have a guy here that's been insulin free for the last 4 years.

Nice part about being a diabetic yourself is no needle phobia. As well as you always have a meter handy :thumbup

Personally I feed everyone here breakfast with am shots, then again at +6, then again at pm shots, then put out frozen canned food for overnight nibbling right as we head for bed. Which reminds me if no one mentioned it you can freeze canned food and leave it out overnight. Then Boo can nibble as it thaws out. Which is nice if he runs low overnight he can just go have a snack.

Mel and The Fur Gang
 
Re: Newbie to this forum but not to DCIN

Wow, freezing that is a great idea! I would have never thought of that! He usually wakes me when he gets hungry. Boo is a big bred of cat. At one point he weighed 20 pounds..he weighs 12 now. His brother is every bit 25 pounds and the other brother (he takes after the momma cat) weight about 8 pounds and he isn't skinny...he is perfect, but Kitty Boo at 12 pounds is skinny yet. You can see his rear hip bones..So he needs to gain a few more pounds. maybe about 3.

That's what I am going to do is get a few mid day readings. Going to continue that thru the weekend to get a better idea of his mid day bs. I am hoping he corrects himself so that he doesn't have to go through this long. However he does like to eat, but I have to limit him because he has a tendency to vomit if he eats too much (I always said he was a hog) and even though he isn't hungry, he will try to sneak his brother's food. I also have 2 outdoor cats and if he could get outside he probably would eat theirs too...LOL!

So far with feeding him smaller more frequent his blood sugar is staying the same as his mornings...and he goes from 10:30 to 11:00 till 8:00 the next morning before he eats.

What time schedule do you do..Like with Boo, i test him, feed him and give him his shot at 8:00....I feed him again at 12:00 I test him at 3:00 and feed again at 4:00, and then he gets the rest of his can at 8:00 and then I test before I go to bed around 11

Emma
 
Re: Newbie to this forum but not to DCIN

Welcome, Emma and Boo!

emmabirch said:
What time schedule do you do..Like with Boo, i test him, feed him and give him his shot at 8:00....I feed him again at 12:00 I test him at 3:00 and feed again at 4:00, and then he gets the rest of his can at 8:00 and then I test before I go to bed around 11

That sounds like a pretty good schedule. :thumbup When first starting out, the more tests you can get, the better. So, I would suggest those would be your minimum tests per day and then any other tests you can grab throughout the day would help you with getting better at testing and help Boo become more used to the process. I also had a really hard time at first with Michelangelo and I wrote up this document to help others get acclimated to the testing process that might give you a few more ideas.
 
Re: Newbie to this forum but not to DCIN

thank you so much! that was very helpful information. Kitty Boo and I think we may have found our spot. He didn't like it on my lap, or me on the floor, but let him jump up on my bed, and he thinks he is king! LOL! If I can get it on the first time, he is alright with it..so I am getting better all the time. :)

He seems to do better on eating every 4 - 5 hours. He hasn't vomited since I switched him. He really seems like he is getting back to his normal. This weekend I will be doing a good curve on him where I am going to try to get it every 2 hours at least up till midnight...but from Midnight to 8:00 I will sleep.

Emma
 
Re: Newbie to this forum but not to DCIN

Oh by the way, I meant for my title to be Newbie to Relaxed Lantus, but not to the FDMB...does anyone know how I could change it?
 
Re: Newbie to this forum but not to DCIN

Hi Emma,

Hope all is going well with Kitty Boo. It seems like you may be getting the hang of testing which is great. I am so glad to hear Kitty is doing better. Hope Pumpkin kitty is doing well too.

Terri
 
Re: Newbie to this forum but not to DCIN

Oh good glad to hear things are getting easier and that you're finding your groove. That reminds me what is Boo's current diet?

Mel and The Fur Gang
 
Re: Newbie to this forum but not to DCIN

Boo is currently eating the Friskie Pate'. I stay away from the fish ones..he eats the chicken, turkey etc.
 
Re: Newbie to this forum but not to DCIN

emmabirch said:
Oh by the way, I meant for my title to be Newbie to Relaxed Lantus, but not to the FDMB...does anyone know how I could change it?

Go to the opening post of this thread and click the icon to edit on the top right of the post. Make your change in the subject line and then hit submit.
 
Re: Newbie in the forum

Ok, this morning every thing went kablooey! Woke up to give Kitty Boo his breakfast and things didn't look right, he walked away from his food. I then did his blood sugar and it was 30!! I don't know what happened! I needed to get sugar into him.. I mixed up some maple syrup and water and gave it to him in a baby feeding syringe (not needle) where I could squirt it in his mouth, got a couple tablespoons down him, and sent a friend to get him some Fancy Feast with Gravy which I mixed in some syrup...got his sugar to 35 then 1/2 hour later back to 32, so called the vet and rushed him there..while sitting in the waiting room for the doctor I tested his sugar again and it is 59..ok out of the woods...so left the vet and decided to watch it at home. So here are the sugars

8:08 am before eating (no shot)- 30
8:47 35
9:18 32
10:15 59
11:43 170

it is his lunch time..do I try to get him to eat...he is not showing he is hungry right now. I think this morning was hard on him and he is resting now.

What are my next steps?
 
Re: Newbie in the forum

It sure sounds like a hypo event to me but I have no experience with how to handle one. You seem to be doing the right things. I would suggest that you go to your first post and choose the edit button and put the 911 icon in to alert people to your post.
 
Re: newbie Kitty Boo went 911 today!!

Well looks like I missed all the action. Ya did good kid on walking Boo out of hypo. :-D Hey at least he's earned himself a dose reduction. :thumbup

How was he acting when he was in the 30s? With Autumn she's completely normal other than bugging me to be tested. With her I can just feed her up on her regular low carb food. Cassanova I have to use gravy high carb since he doesn't food spike like Autumn.

Mel and The Fur Gang
 
Re: newbie Kitty Boo went 911 today!!

The first sign was I went in to the bathroom (sometimes he will sleep on the cool vinyl or in the shower) and I usually feed him and test his sugar, but when I went to put his food down, he walked away from it. Later I realized he couldn't see it. as he walked away, I noticed him do a side stumble, like he couldn't see where he was going..I grabbed him up real quick and did a BS and it was 30! I am a diabetic, and I know that was not good (to be below 50), so I scooped him up and went downstairs looking for something for him to eat..I grabbed the soft treats that the other cats gets, and put a couple down and he just walked on by them...this is not like boo because he usually wolfs down anything and everything eatable. So I grabbed him and sat down with him and feed him with my hand, putting them in his mouth and then he wolfed it down! I realized he was not seeing well. I called a friend from the boards and she told me to get him to the vet, however I am so sorry to say, I am poor...so she explained to me to get some kyro syrup and fancy feast with gravy, so I sent to the store to get that and while I was waiting, I grabbed the maple syrup (all natural and 56 grams of sugar) and mixed it into some water and with a plastic syringe (like you give baby's their meds) I squirted it in his mouth which he drank, I then mixed up the cat food and syrup and put on a paper plate so I could hold it for him to feed.

See previous posts for blood sugars. But now I am wondering what to do. He is resting since my last blood sugar test...and he did get up to go to the bathroom..so I am going to test again here shortly..but he is resisting now because I have had to test so much today. He hasn't had any insulin today....and he hasn't eaten since 9:30
 
Re: newbie Kitty Boo went 911 today!!

Feed the poor boy. Test him tonight just like normal if he's above 200 shoot his new dose of 1u. If below stall feeding and test again in 30 minutes if rising and fairly close to 200 feed and shoot.

As scary as it was today you gained valuable information about Kitty Boo and that is he has symptomatic hypos at low numbers so we'll want to hold him a little higher in the greens when that time comes to shoot low to stay low.

Mel and The Fur Gang
 
Re: newbie Kitty Boo went 911 today!!

Thank you so very much. So I am understanding above 200 shot with 1 unit...under 200 hold food for 30 minutes and test, if it is holding under 200 like 170, I feed and don't do shot? Then test him again before I go to bed to see if he is holding of if it jumped? What if it jumps to 270 or above after eating? Still no shot? Or 1 unit. I am sorry I have all of these questions, but being new to this, it is a little scary..I love this cat. He has been a part of my family for over 13 years..

Maybe if someone could give me some ranges of when to shoot, when not etc?

Emma
 
Re: newbie Kitty Boo went 911 today!!

Right now lets set your no shoot number at 200. Yes if stalling doesn't have him rising and close to 200 feed and skip the shot. If rising and in the neighborhood say 175 and rising shoot 1u. If you check before bed and he's sky rocketing up go ahead and give the shot but that will reset your shot times and you'll have to walk him back 30 minutes a day. Example you wait and shoot at 10pm..Thursday's shot times would be 9:30 a.m./p.m. Friday's 9 a.m./p.m. etc until back to where you want them.

More than likely he's gonna bounce like a rubber ball tonight between sugar and his own self defense hormones kicking in.

Mel and The Fur Gang
 
Re: newbie Kitty Boo went 911 today!!

Hi Emma!

I usually help on the Lantus Tight Reg forum, but someone sent me a message asking if i could come and give you a hand.

One thing that you'll want to be extra careful of - after a cat has had a symptomatic hypo (and blindness is definitely a severe symptom, it means their brain was low on sugar), they can be more sensitive to insulin than they were before.

When you give Boo's shot tonight, i'd monitor more than you usually do to make sure he isn't diving from the insulin. As long as you can monitor, I would shoot lower than Mel is suggesting, mainly because shooting lower holds the numbers lower and flatter. There just isn't as far to fall. Lantus is known for its flat, long cycles - they can become almost a line instead of a curve when you begin to shoot low. The monitoring is key, of course. He's already up to 170 at +5 so he'll likely be high by tonight.

I'd also encourage you to vary the times you do the mid-cycle tests. Instead of always getting a +7, I'd get tests throughout the cycle. You don't need to get them all on the same cycle - i don't mean that, i just mean sometimes get a +2, sometimes a +3, etc. I think of the spreadsheet like a jigsaw puzzle. Right now, you have the edge pieces and one stripe down the middle. You don't have to have every piece in the puzzle for the picture to emerge, but with only the edges and one stripe, it's hard to see what the picture is. What we do know is that Boo is responding to the insulin - which is typically what happens after a cat has been on insulin for a while. The dose that was the right amount before becomes too much now. That's where the mid-cycle tests come in - they give us advance warning so that the dose can be reduced when the cat gets to 49, and hopefully, you don't have another 30 happen.

The other thing about getting a +7 is that most cats are past their low point by then - some cats are at their lowest at +3. With Lantus dosing based upon the low point, you really want to know how low a dose is getting him. I'd get more tests between +2 and +6 instead of +7. That'll give you more helpful information.

Great job handling things today! I'm so glad you got his blood sugar when you did! For the future, you can give straight pancake syrup, maple syrup, honey or karo syrup. You don't have to dilute it. If he'll eat, you can put it on a teaspoon of food. if he won't eat, you can squirt it on his gums or rub it on his gums. the mucous membranes will absorb it quickly.

I saw in your earlier post that his ears are tender. Neosporin ointment with pain relief is fantastic for healing ears. It takes the numb right out of the spot. I tried it on myself and it works great. You can slather it on Boo's ears at night and they will heal overnight and look like new in the morning. It's a blessing on those days when you have to do a lot of testing. Also, as you test, his ears will grow more capillaries and then they will bleed all the time for you.

Hope some of this helps. Good luck tonight. If you have questions, just ask.
 
Re: newbie Kitty Boo went 911 today!!

Wow Julie and Punkin...thanks a lot! Yes Terri called me to let me know she had asked you to follow up with me. I really appreciate you (and everyone else of course) taking the time to help me. There is a lot to understand and learn. I am going to watch it more closely now. This morning scared me, and I am finding out there is so much to learn. Trying to read the boards, is really confusing and it is like I need a map to know where to go.
 
Re: newbie Kitty Boo went 911 today!!

Ok check the BS and now it is say HI no number just reads HI...now what do I do??
 
Re: newbie Kitty Boo went 911 today!!

That means he's over 600. Way safe to give his 1u to so you feed and shoot!! I'd make sure to grab Light's Out test before turning in for the night.

Mel and The Fur Gang
 
Re: newbie Kitty Boo went 911 today!!

i got your message, emma and wanted to respond here. it is really confusing and it takes a while to get it. that's why so many of us stick around to help others who are learning - we were in your shoes at one point too.

what it means is that Boo "bounced" from being so low this morning. He's over 600. Just give the same 1.0u that you were going to anyway and feed him as usual tonight. You can probably just get one test in tonight, say +4 to see what he's doing now.

Here's an explanation of what a bounce is. Look at the second post here: New Dose Wonkiness & Bounces
 
Re: newbie Kitty Boo went 911 today!!

Ah Julie beat me to linking her explanation of a bounce. She does it better than me :-D

Mel and The Fur Gang
 
Re: newbie Kitty Boo went 911 today!!

Ok 9:15 fed and 1 unit given. I will try to stay up to do one at 1:15 AM..may be like 12:30....Still have him under observation.
 
Re: newbie Kitty Boo went 911 today!!

Thanks you guys..I really really appreciate your quick responses. :) :?
 
Re: newbie Kitty Boo went 911 today!!

Hi, Emma. Terri asked me to stop by. I'm a newbie to Columbus but not to FDMB.

You did a wonderful job of handling your kitty's lows today. Your own experience with diabetes was a life saver (probably very literally).

Other than what the others have suggested, I'd encourage you to get a test in during the PM cycle. Many kitties tend to have lower numbers at night. If you can grab a test before you go to bed each night, it will give you far more control over your cat's numbers.
 
Re: newbie Kitty Boo went 911 today!!

Thank you. I am going to stay up to do one at 1:15. I have a lot to do tomorrow, it is graduation day, so many things to tend to..I will have to leave a little while after morning feedings but should only be gone about an hour...and then gone to graduation tomorrow evening. So will be gone all evening.

But I am going to try, if I wake during the night I will try to get one too.

Emma
 
Re: newbie Kitty Boo went 911 today!!

great job getting a test in last night, emma. i see she's still pretty high this morning. Bounces can last as long as 3 days (6 cycles after the low number yesterday morning) although they also can resolve sooner. Just hang onto this dose and keep testing preshot and at least once mid-cycle, working around your other commitments, and you'll be able to tell when she's coming down from the bounce. Sometimes they bobble around high during the bounce, like she may come down to 250, but then go back up to 350 during this time.

When she's back down closer to 100, that will tell you she's resolved the bounce.
 
Re: newbie Kitty Boo went 911 today!!

Thank you Julie! I need all the encouragement I can get right now. He seems to be back to his old self, except he is hanging in my bedroom and not venturing downstairs. I know he is tired of me sticking him, he is beginning to show his frustration and is fighting me a little. This morning it too me 3 times. I wish I didn't have to do it multiple times. today I am going to get some neosporin with pain relief, and yesterday I picked up some smaller syringes. They were only $3.00 and it is 30 units...so I can see the measurement for the 1 unit better than the 100 syringes. I wish there were syringes that showed like only 3 ML with all the .25 in between. It must be really hard to do the 1/4 unit increments. Of course i don't have to deal with that just yet.

Emma & KittyBoo
 
Re: newbie Kitty Boo went 911 today!!

I would love to know where you found a box of 30 unit syringes for $3 and what brand they are. The cheapest I have ever seen is $12.58 (plus tax in some states) at Walmart (the Relion syringes).

Also, I think it is OK for you to take the 911 icon off your opening post now, and maybe change the subject line from being a 911. In fact, it might be time for you to start creating a new thread each new day you post as the others on this forum do. :smile:
 
Re: newbie Kitty Boo went 911 today!!

Ok, it wasn't a box..sorry for the misunderstanding..it was a package of 10. Got them to see if I could see the 1 unit better
 
What I use for syringes are the Relion (walmart's house brand) 3/10cc 31gauge short needle with half unit marks. Those make it very easy to even hit those inbetween quarter dose changes. They run me about $13 and change for a box of 100

Mel and The Fur Gang
 
These are great syringes: http://www.americandiabeteswholesale.com/product/terumo-thinpro-insulin-syringe_5891.htm Box of 100 for $13.09, so 13 cents each. It gets even cheaper if you register at http://www.mrrebates.com first and got through mrrebates' site to connect to ADW. Then when you have bought a certain amount, mr rebates will send you a rebate. i used to get $30 checks from them when i was buying supplies for punkin.

one thing i really liked about the Terumo syringes is that the barrel is very narrow, especially compared to the Relions, so the markings are stretched out farther apart. the result is that it's easier to dose small increments, like 0.25u changes. I was trying to help someone (in person) measure a quarter unit on the relions and really, it's nearly impossible. the barrel is so wide that you can't get small changes in.
 
Magnifiers can really help you see.
There are several options:
- clip ons which attach to existing glasses (Carson Clip and Flip are terrific!)
- visors with magnifiers
- stand magnigierd
- hand held (not as useful if youare using both hands)
Check Amazon via our shopping link above; we get a few pennies back if you purchase ther and it helps support the board.

p.s. I'm in Columbus also.
 
Great job yesterday, Emma.

I meant to stop by and check in as Julie and Sienne did (I am also a regular poster on the Lantus TR board) but did not get a chance to last night. You got a lot of good information yesterday.

It will be important to give Boo time to clear the bounce and see where he ends up. At that time, we can all see what his numbers are and if his dose needs to be adjusted. Occasionally a cat will take longer than six cycles to clear the bounce so we will just hope he reads the posts here and doesn't dilly-dally around too long. :-D
 
Thanks :) Today was a hectic day. We had my daughter's graduation, her truck broke down, I had to get my car from the shop run some errands and finally just got back home at 10;51..

Got to get Kitty Boo to bed, and then turn in myself. Will post more tomorrow.

Emma
 
Moving forward, please start a new post each day, in the format you see others using :

Date CatName AMPS #

This will help us follow you better. This is the 46th post in this thread.. that is a lot of stuff to wade through!

Linda
 
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