Newbie in Tulsa OK

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tinabetta

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Hello,

I cannot tell you all the help this weath of information is to me and my poor sugarcat, Lee. We are a multi cat household and he is my old man at 15. I have had him since he was a bottle baby abandoned by his mother when she moved her litter. He had always been a good boy but the past few years have been tough for him.. We moved from Orlando, FL to Oklahoma 4 years ago and then to a permanent home a year after that. He seemed to take to everything so well that when he started going outside of the litter box we thought perhaps a UTI. The vet did not seem to find anything but treated him with an antibiotic. He seemed to get better for a while but then he was back at it. We thought he just did not like to go where every one else was going, even though I keep the box super clean. I tried different litters,everything wecould think of to halt the behavior and I hate to say it, but in my frustration, we punished. There are only so many times you can clean up the floor at 5AM after stepping in a puddle in your jammies before you lose it. So we banished him to the porch. But OK is too hot for a poor old thing to be out when it is 114 degrees. So we crated him in a huge dog crate during the day, complete with water, litter box etc. Doing this Might have saved his life. I took note of the amounts he was drinking and peeing and the little light bulb went off. We bundled him up ASAP and whisked him to the vet.

His sugar was over 500, no telling for how long. Now that I know so much I can see the tell tale signs and know that the puddles were his way of saying "Look mom!! I have a problem! Do something!" He is still happy and perky and bright eyed so Diabetes was the last thing I could imagine. He has been taking everything since like a champ and loving the extra attention he is getting. Rebecca has been a big help and the more I learn and the less helpless to do something I feel, the better off we both will be. His sugar is still too high, we tested at the vet Saturday and it was 520 still but we had just found you and I read the stuff about the Purina DM dry and I immediately went and got him the canned. So the next check I hope the results will be better.
 
Most of us didn't realize what was happening; lots of us didn't realize cats could be diabetic! What matters now is that you are working to help your sweet Lee (pun intended :mrgreen: )

Be careful about changing food completely to wet before you are testing at home. With our Oliver, he went down 100 points overnight. If we hadn't been testing and had given him the usual amount, he would have hypoed. We like to rely on numbers at home. Most cats are very stressed at the vet and stress raises glucose levels. Can we help you learn how to test? Is Rebecca sending you a kit?
 
Dale works in Tulsa and lives in Broken Arrow. Look for a message from her tomorrow and she'll be a big help to you......especially with home testing. Glad you found out the problem with your baby and I agree, OK is way too hot to be outside.
 
Welcome from another Tulsan! I too have a multi-cat household and am treating 6 diabetics right now (a couple are fosters...at least I hope they are just going to be fosters!). Melissa and Tarragon, who posts on the Lantus-Tight Reg board, is also in Tulsa. So is Pat and Samantha whose vet sends all their newly diagnosed cats to to learn about food, hometesting, and insulins. So you have several of us to call on for help, hand holding, and demonstrations of hometesting.
Right now my kitties are on Levemir insulin which is similar to Lantus. What insulin did your vet start your kitty on?

While there are those of us in Tulsa to help you, I encourage you to post on this board for there is a wealth of info and experience available to you. But know that you can call upon me any time, day or night.
Dale Ann
 
The vet has us on the ProZinc right now at 3 units. She did not say anything about the change in food and possibly hypoing him, in fact she wanted to raise it again after our last visit Saturday. My husband was a paramedic and he said that might not be wise so until we can test at home we are not going to raise the dosage, I think they started him too high and am afraid he would hypo when I am at work and I would lose him. The problem with the prozinc is it is very expensive and I don't know how it is going to work into my new budget and how long a bottle will last.
 
ProZinc is a good insulin, but yes, that is a large dose. We see this often if cats are just tested at the vet, where the cat is stressed (stress raises glucose levels sometimes by hundreds of points) Then the dose prescribed by the vet can be too much once the cat gets home and relaxes. (That's one of the reasons we test at home.)

If you change to wet low carb food, I would suggest starting over at one unit every 12 hours, testing always before the shot and halfway through the cycle to see how the insulin was working. If you reduce, also test for ketones. We usually start kitties at .5 to one unit because it is much easier to raise the dose based on the numbers, every few cycles as needed, than to start at a high dose and react to low numbers as they happen.

Here is a document with lots of info about ProZinc:

http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=32799

If you are giving a small dose like one unit, your bottle should last quite a while. Be sure to check the care instructions in the document above.

Please take up one of these people up on their offer to help. It is so much easier to have someone show you how to do the test the first time.
 
I have been feeding him the wet low carb now since last Friday dinner, so almost a week. We tested last on Saturday morning after fasting and he was at 520. We haven't been able to test since Saturday due to finances, I can't afford to take him to the vet for it or buy a meter of my own. Rebecca is sending me one so I hope to get it very soon. Until then we are keeping a very close eye on him and his behavior. One thing the vet did educate us on was what to do if he went hypo and thank God my guy John has the emergency medical experience that he would be a calm head while I was freaking out.
I never cease to be amazed at how resilient Lee is. I know he had to be feeling bad for a while, I just couldn't see it. Right now he is loving the special food and eating place in the kitchen on the bar (to keep the others out of his bowl) and the extra love he gets pre and post shot. He will sit up there and nibble, then stop. I will redirect him and he will eat some more, nibble and stop. I think he does it to get me to keep interacting with him. He has even got some of his playfulness back.
We are scheduled to go back to the vet on Saturday but hopefully we will get the meter from Rebecca first and we will have good news.
 
We got our new meter in the mail from Rebecca, THANK YOU!!!, and after much squirming managed a tiny drop of blood from Lee's ear and the reading was 40! He has been eating the cans for a week now, 40 is good but a little on the low side right? He ate like a pig and was very happy afterward. John only gave him 2 units instead of 3.
 
Was the 40 the number before the shot? Please retest ASAP. 40 is a low number - one which we would consider close to hypo. If you shot 2 units at 40, this is a dangerous situation.

Please give us more info.
 
It was 40 about 3 hours ago before he ate, and he ate very well. He seems to be doing fine, sitting happily in the kitchen. Should we test him again now?
 
So he was 40. Three hours later he ate. Then he got a shot?

I' m sorry; I am confused with the timeline. Can you test him now and then give us this info: the number you get now is __ hours since the shot.

The food may bring a number up, and then it can go back down. You'll need to watch the numbers for at least 6 hours after the shot. That is usually when the number dips lowest.

We suggest that new diabetics not shoot if the preshot number is 200 or under. We just can't be sure how low the insulin will take your kitty in the beginning of this dance.
 
Just so I'm understanding.

You tested him and got a 40.
Then you gave him 2u of PZI
And 3 hours later he ate?
Did you also feed him when you gave him the shot and saw that 40?

Can you test him again ASAP?
And tell us how long it has been since he got the shot?

Carl
 
I hope Lee did okay last night.

We would suggest your testing before each shot. If the number is 200 or lower, wait 20 minutes without feeding and retest to make sure the number is rising and over 200. If it is, shoot a slightly reduced dose.

If I were you, I would go down to .5 or one unit of insulin. Start testing before each shot and midcycle. Post your numbers and get advice. You are getting very low numbers with 2 units; they are low enough to possibly cause hypos. It is much better for the kitty to start with a low dose, test to see how it is working and then increase as needed, using the number to guide you.
 
Looks like my post from earlier today did not go through. Lee is doing good last check. Here's what happened. We got the new meter, tested him just before he ate his dinner and he was at 40 at that time but showing no ill signs. He ate really well and we gave him his shot of PZI, only 2 units rather than the 3.5 the vet had us on since Saturday's visit. We kept a close eye on him all evening until we all fell asleep. This morning he was at 86, happy chipper and when I went to test, ornery. He was at 86 this morning before breakfast. My spouse opted not to dose him as we did not want to dose too high while we are not at home. I will keep you posted
 
Last evening Dale Ann sent me her number and we had a good chat. I learned things from her that my vet had not shared with me so I feel a little more confident about things. I tested Lee when we got home from work about 6ish and he was at 90. Dale Ann said that was good and we did not dose him. He had a good night but this morning he was 261 so we gave him 1 unit after he ate breakfast. His numbers could be elevated by the stress from a newbie trying to test him, I guarantee he knew exactly what I was going to do ahead of time when he saw me get out the meter and warm the rice pack. He ran for the hills! Only the lure of breakfast got him to come back. After 10 minutes of struggling with him I finally got the lancet to poke hard enough to give me a small drop enough to test.
The meter that Rebecca sent me is an Arkray, never heard of it but it is really easy to use.
 
I am glad you've made contact with Dale. It helps so much to have someone local to talk with. Your meter seems to be accurate. If you are still unsure, you can always test yourself.

The next step is a spreadsheet so if you need dose advice, we can see Lee's history at a glance. It is a great tool for you to see trends and patterns. Here are the instructions:

http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=18207

It's a little tricky. If you need help, just ask.
 
Arkray is the same company that makes the Relion brand sold at walmart, I believe. It should be fine.
Carl
 
The 261 was most likely due to not having a shot for 24 hours. But you did the correct thing by not giving a shot on the 90, which is within the range of normal.
The goal is to find a dose that is small enough to give you a number you can shoot insulin on every 12 hours, and a spreadsheet will be very helpful in figuring out what that dose will be.
Carl
 
Well we are getting better with the ear sticks and the count tonight was 101. We will not dose tonight. I made a spread sheet, I am so proud.
 
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