Newbie hoping for advice/encouragement! :)

Status
Not open for further replies.

Brianna & Xander

Very Active Member
Hi everyone,

My 11 year old boy Xander was diagnosed about a month ago, on December 11th. His drinking and urinating had increased to a shocking degree incredibly suddenly. I had never really given him any crunch treats before a couple of months ago, but had gotten a free bag of Friskies Party Mix and was giving him a few daily (half or less than the bag "recommended"). At first I thought maybe they'd just made him really thirsty, so I immediately stopped the treats but drinking/urinating stayed crazily high, so at that point I obviously got him to the vet. I would imagine this was going on long beforehand and that the treats just tipped the scale, and I'm sure that makes me look like an idiot.

I apologize for how lengthy this will probably end up being but as is often the case for me I feel like there are extra circumstances that make my situation weird/difficult.

For some background, I'm Brianna. I'm 33 and have had Xander since late 2013. He was probably about 4 months old when I adopted him and he had been feral. He's such a sweet boy, but has always been very sensitive and nervous. In many ways personality-wise he's almost literally just me as a cat. He loves my partner, but I'm definitely his chosen person. I'm disabled so I'm usually home, and we basically spend every second together. If I'm at my desk he's probably laying on it or in his designated chair next to me. If I get up to go to the bathroom or get a drink, he follows. Even so, 11 years down the line I've never been able to "hold" him. Don't get me wrong; he loves to be held, but only if he doesn't think that's what's happening.That usually means laying on my desk in front of me with my arms around him with his face all snuggled up into my chest. (Picture examples: One, two, three) lol Even with me, he gets very nervous if he thinks he's going to be trapped/held somewhere.

He's eaten Science Diet Sensitive Stomach & Skin basically his whole life. After diagnosis, our vet said she didn't want to change his diet and start insulin at the same time, so we were instructed to keep him on that food for now. She also didn't recommend we do any at-home BG testing because of the difference between pet and human trackers, etc. She prescribed 2 units of ProZinc every 12 hours.

When we went back to the vet 6 days after the first visit, to get a demo on how to do injections, he had lost about a pound just in that time (about 12.25 lb down to 11.25) and his BG was 480. :( The first day we were supposed to start injections was the night of December 23rd. I had been reading everything I could (especially the resources here) since diagnosis so I knew the dangers of going too low and was very uncomfortable giving any insulin without knowing if it was safe... and then he also wouldn't eat. He's always been a grazer, but we'd also taken the food away several hours beforehand to make sure he'd eat before the injection. The vet had given us her number to text her over the holiday if we needed her so finally, mid-panic attack, we did. She suggested that we give him a little bit of wet food to entice him, let him continue to graze on the dry food and to just give 1 unit to be safe. We didn't have any wet food, so we skipped that dose and picked some up on Christmas Eve.

So now to ensure he eats something, I give him half of a 3oz can of Fancy Feast Classic Pate before each injection, alongside his dry food (which I let him graze on, but I do measure it out). The next problem was that he's terrified and untrusting of the simplest things, so even going to tent the skin he'd freak out and run. The first several I had to have my partner hold him down for which only made him more afraid. Calling his name or even putting food out for him, he wouldn't come. He's smart and picks up on routine so fast.

He had really liked the Churu treat from the vet, so I started trying to distract him with those while I did it, putting it on a plate for him to lick off. That worked great for a couple of days, he didn't even seem to notice the needle! And then he started jumping away the instant I went for his skin again.

This getting better/getting worse cycle repeated for a while. Having the vet shave some spots on his hips (he can't stand me going for his scruff area, I can only do the flank) helped a lot to be able to see. It's finally going a little better but I have to be so quick about it that I don't have time to do any of the "pull back to see blood" etc, I just have to get it in and inject before he runs. He does flinch and pull away but as soon as the needle is out he goes back to his treat. Afterward he gets unlimited loves and praises until he decides he's done. Even though it's going better now it's so stressful every time and even my hands shake for a good hour afterward. Seems to be more traumatic for me than for him!

A week and a half ago he started to seem particularly lethargic, not interested in food, vomiting some of the time. I was worried about DKA or any number of things, so the vet took him in for the day to give him fluids and keep an eye on him. When he'd been diagnosed his liver "showed signs of inflammation" but she thought it was likely secondary to the diabetes, and after this visit she confirmed that his liver numbers had returned to normal even after a short time on insulin, and that his tests showed that pancreatitis was unlikely. Essentially she said that everything was looking okay but if we wanted to keep investigating we could do an abdominal ultrasound. He seemed to just start to feel better shortly after this so we didn't end up doing that.

A week ago we got a FreeStyle Libre 2 placed. I didn't think there was a chance in hell he'd let it stay on for more than an hour, but especially since he's so hard to even give injections to, I don't feel like we'd have much luck pricking him twice a day and I can't really risk making it impossible to even do the injections because he's learned not to come to me anymore.

As you can probably see from his spreadsheet, his reactions to the insulin are ridiculously inconsistent. At first he'd drop (comparatively) super low, then climb right back up really quickly. I showed this to the vet way earlier than the 72 hours she requested for the curve, asking if maybe it was bouncing or rebound (or whatever) and she said that this wasn't the case because the drop wasn't happening within an hour of injection, and that this just looked like it was a short action insulin for him. She said she'd also talk to a specialist and see what they thought, and that he might just need a different insulin. Since then he's alternated between literally no discernible reaction in BG numbers to one night dropping as low as 98. Nothing between any of these doses has changed in regards to food, treats, dosage, etc. It's like if he reacts to one dose, his body ignores the next one or two. I have no idea what to make of it.

I sent the vet the full 72 hours' worth on Friday afternoon so naturally we haven't heard anything back yet but I'm just so tired of wondering so I was hoping you experienced, wonderful people might have some thoughts.

I know that everyone here says that home testing is vital. I also know that my cat is so sensitive and nervous that capturing him to prick his ear will be insanely difficult and possibly make it impossible to give injections anymore. (On that note, even the vet tech had difficulty getting his ear to bleed.) The Libre just died today (day 7) and is starting to fall off a little. It often had errors and was annoying, but it still seemed at least more doable than manual. I feel like bringing him to the vet to get it placed is more stressful for him than having it on is, but I'm also absolutely not comfortable trying to place it myself. The vet finally answered my question of which pet monitor she'd recommend if I had to use one and she said Alpha Trak, but from what I understand those are crazily more expensive over time than the human ones and also often have errors, which will obviously also add to the cost.

I guess my questions are:

• What on earth do you think is going on with his reactions to injections? Why does he sometimes react so strongly and other times literally not at all? I know a lot of people immediately switch to low-carb wet food but our vet didn't want us to do that. Could that be the whole problem as opposed to needing a different insulin?

• What should we do about testing? I wish the Libre lasted longer because it'd be a no-brainer. I'd also at least like to have the option to test him manually if I need to, but I just don't know what to do. I know that human meters are much cheaper than pet ones, but which one would you recommend as least jarring/possibly painful for a very scared, sensitive cat? Needs less blood, maybe?

• The sensor itself on the Libre has come mostly detached from the adhesive pad, but the pad is still stuck. I'm not sure if I should leave it and let it fall the rest of the way off (the edges are lifted) or ask the vet to take it off. I'm afraid to hurt him (or make him afraid of me).

I'm so stressed nonstop that I feel like I'm going to crack open. I'm crying every day and it's all I think about. I'm chronically ill and it's hard enough to take care of myself, but now I'm taking care of my chronically ill best friend too and there's just nothing left of me for anything else. He is absolutely worth it and I'll do everything I can to make my best buddy healthy and happy again, but I'm just as afraid and sensitive a beast as he is and I feel all alone in this. In one way it's amazing that my vet is willing to text me after hours if I have questions, but in another way I feel thrown out without a life vest and keep feeling like what I'm told is at odds with what I read here, so I'm just... terrified. All the time.

One of the things that has been so hard with this is that he's not a typical cat. Maybe it's because he was feral, but he is so sensitive and suspicious that 99% of the suggestions I've found through all this nonstop reading haven't been things that work for him, aside from distraction with the Churu. I guess I'm hoping to find some people who might not only have experience with FD but with a really specific temperament of kitty too.

Thank you so much if you took the time to read this far. I can't express how much I appreciate it. My entire life for the past month has literally been nothing but researching this and taking care of him, but I'm sorry if any of this sounds stupid/uninformed. I've been writing this for so long that now I'm about to go to bed but I'll be here first thing in the morning and will answer any and all questions you might have.

I wanted to add a few images but don't want them to make the post massive since I can't resize them, so here are some links lol

This is what our version of "being held" is: One, two, three
And here are just a couple cute ones: One, two :)

Edit 1 (1/14 1:27 PM): The vet just emailed me about his curve and said that she spoke with an internist who agreed that the ProZinc is working but has too short a duration for him and that he needs to switch. She's prescribing 2 units of glargine now instead, said that there's no need for a washout; to just switch at the next dose. I also asked her if it would be wise to start the full switch to low carb wet food but haven't gotten a response yet.

Edit 2 (1/14 10:14 PM): Every step forward comes with two steps back, it seems. Tonight he turned around and bit me with the injection. Not hard, no blood drawn, it didn't even hurt. But I know just from knowing him that this will continue. I'm utterly defeated and am stressed to the point of it manifesting physically. In no way do I plan to stop treatment, but I'm struggling with just trying to exist in any capacity aside from this and I'm trying so hard but this just isn't working as is.

My partner and I decided that we'd like to pause insulin (stop ProZinc but not start Lantus yet) just long enough to switch his diet over entirely to the low carb wet food. It shouldn't be a problem because he loves it! But I know it's harder and dangerous to do while also on insulin so we thought it would make sense to do that before starting the new one instead. We plan to get another Libre placed so we can watch his trend with the food change. If we're ridiculously lucky maybe it will be enough to make a difference, and if not at least there will be less to fight against when starting insulin again. I did email my vet tonight to ask if there's anything we should know first, like how long after his last injection it's safe to start this, and if there's any specific way to go about it, but I'd also like to hear what you all think. Since his action time for the ProZinc was so short (hence switching to Lantus), it doesn't seem like it should take long before it was safe. Maybe a day? Two? Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated.
 
Last edited:
Hi Brianna, welcome to you and Xander!

Some more experienced folks will stop by soon, but I just wanted to say I have the same type of bond with my guy. Got him when I was a teenager and he is my best friend. We found this board 2 months ago and the advice here has helped us tremendously.

I found that my vet knew FD at a high level but not necessarily all the intricacies, kind of like human doctors and specialists.

Did I miss why the vet doesn’t want you to switch to low carb wet? That was huge for us.
 
Hi Brianna, I'm new here too so I don't have any answers to your questions I'm sorry. But just to say that I absolutely feel for you. I have been focussed nearly 24 x 7 for the last few weeks on our 11year old cat who has been poorly and now is diagnosed with diabetes. It is emotional and exhausting and it is easy to feel frightened and alone. I have found a lot of help and support here already. I hope you do to.
Xander looks beautiful. I hope tomorrow will be a good day for you both:)
 
Hi Brianna, welcome to you and Xander!

Some more experienced folks will stop by soon, but I just wanted to say I have the same type of bond with my guy. Got him when I was a teenager and he is my best friend. We found this board 2 months ago and the advice here has helped us tremendously.

I found that my vet knew FD at a high level but not necessarily all the intricacies, kind of like human doctors and specialists.

Did I miss why the vet doesn’t want you to switch to low carb wet? That was huge for us.

Aww, I'm glad to hear that you have that same special kind of bond with Pookey! He looks like a sweet boy. And I'm so glad that the advice has been helpful; I look forward to feeling less lost and afraid!

I'm feeling somewhat similarly about my vet, but maybe at an intermediate level rather than high. I'm at least glad she's referring to a specialist, since at least that means she knows she has gaps and that does make a big difference.

She didn't explicitly say why she didn't want us to switch immediately to wet aside from that she doesn't like do any diet change at the same time as insulin, so maybe based on his liver numbers, BG and symptoms she thought starting insulin first was safest?

Thank you so much for your response!
 
Hi Brianna, I'm new here too so I don't have any answers to your questions I'm sorry. But just to say that I absolutely feel for you. I have been focussed nearly 24 x 7 for the last few weeks on our 11year old cat who has been poorly and now is diagnosed with diabetes. It is emotional and exhausting and it is easy to feel frightened and alone. I have found a lot of help and support here already. I hope you do to.
Xander looks beautiful. I hope tomorrow will be a good day for you both:)

Hi David! Thank you so much for the response! No need to apologize for not having answers; it's genuinely so comforting just to know that other people understand what I'm going through!

It really is all consuming, emotional and scary! Once you leave the vet and are home trying to just get the whole routine going it feels like being left alone in the dark.

Your Charly is absolutely beautiful as well!
 
Hi Brianna, I'm new here too so I don't have any answers to your questions I'm sorry. But just to say that I absolutely feel for you. I have been focussed nearly 24 x 7 for the last few weeks on our 11year old cat who has been poorly and now is diagnosed with diabetes. It is emotional and exhausting and it is easy to feel frightened and alone. I have found a lot of help and support here already. I hope you do to.
Xander looks beautiful. I hope tomorrow will be a good day for you both:)
Welcome to FDF, it is overwhelming when our loved cats are diagnoses with FD, and we feel is our fault it catches us by surprise especially that our cat has the same behavior as always, except the excessive water drinking, not until we pick them up and notice the weight loss, I've been there, but in this Forum I understood the Feline Diabetes is treatable and manageable, but it does not happen over night, to the three that posted here thank you , I reviewed the spreadsheets, and yes the BG's are extremely high, try to follow the suggestions give here, for dosing, diet or for and other concern.
Bryana, my Corky is also on ProZinc, the first and most important thing is testing before each dose, second diabetic cats must have a diet of wet can food, between 0-10 % carbs, several meals a day is necessary, 2 main meals and 2-3 snacks dayly. grazing on kibble is most likely what is keeping those high BGs, kibbles contain between 20-30 % carbs, cats cannot digest carbs, you mentioned Fancy Feast Pate, most of the members enjoy
FF, below is a Drs Food list where you will find all the Fancy Feast and other brands the third column contains the amount of carbs per food to keep the BG stable, I cannot advise you on dosing, but for what I have learned here 2units seems like a high dose, ProZinc is a long lasting insulin it last 12 hours, that's so the procedure would be Test, Feed, Dose, never shoot on an empty stomach, also most of the members use the ReliOn Premier human monitor and strips, you can purchase at Walmart, the monitor is $19.99 an the strips $9.00 for 50 $17.88 for 100 this monitor is very reliable, You need to have what is called HYPO KIT, this contains some medium carb food between 11-15% and some High carbs between 16-24% some Karo Syrup or honey, this is to be used in case the Bg gets to 50 or less, we can help you go thru the process if you need us. You are doing the right thing contacting us, this is a world wide Forum with excellent knowledgeable member with updated information to help us get our furr baby to good health, In order for us to help you we would like you to create your signature this will let us know more about your cat and we can relate to for advise, below is the link, and don't worry, we have all felt powerless at times, but before you know it you will be a pro, I trust this Forum blindly, and the proof is my Corky's diabetes is
right where it should be, his pancreas are finally healing after 3 years (see Spreadsheet) on the way to remission or not, He is as healthy as before FD I will tag a member that will help you with dosing:bighug::cat::cat:
@Suzanne & Darcy
@Wendy&Neko

FOOD CHART CHECK CARBS/ FF
https://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/new-how-you-can-help-us-help-you.216696/
 
Welcome to FDF, it is overwhelming when our loved cats are diagnoses with FD, and we feel is our fault it catches us by surprise especially that our cat has the same behavior as always, except the excessive water drinking, not until we pick them up and notice the weight loss, I've been there, but in this Forum I understood the Feline Diabetes is treatable and manageable, but it does not happen over night, to the three that posted here thank you , I reviewed the spreadsheets, and yes the BG's are extremely high, try to follow the suggestions give here, for dosing, diet or for and other concern.
Bryana, my Corky is also on ProZinc, the first and most important thing is testing before each dose, second diabetic cats must have a diet of wet can food, between 0-10 % carbs, several meals a day is necessary, 2 main meals and 2-3 snacks dayly. grazing on kibble is most likely what is keeping those high BGs, kibbles contain between 20-30 % carbs, cats cannot digest carbs, you mentioned Fancy Feast Pate, most of the members enjoy
FF, below is a Drs Food list where you will find all the Fancy Feast and other brands the third column contains the amount of carbs per food to keep the BG stable, I cannot advise you on dosing, but for what I have learned here 2units seems like a high dose, ProZinc is a long lasting insulin it last 12 hours, that's so the procedure would be Test, Feed, Dose, never shoot on an empty stomach, also most of the members use the ReliOn Premier human monitor and strips, you can purchase at Walmart, the monitor is $19.99 an the strips $9.00 for 50 $17.88 for 100 this monitor is very reliable, You need to have what is called HYPO KIT, this contains some medium carb food between 11-15% and some High carbs between 16-24% some Karo Syrup or honey, this is to be used in case the Bg gets to 50 or less, we can help you go thru the process if you need us. You are doing the right thing contacting us, this is a world wide Forum with excellent knowledgeable member with updated information to help us get our furr baby to good health, In order for us to help you we would like you to create your signature this will let us know more about your cat and we can relate to for advise, below is the link, and don't worry, we have all felt powerless at times, but before you know it you will be a pro, I trust this Forum blindly, and the proof is my Corky's diabetes is
right where it should be, his pancreas are finally healing after 3 years (see Spreadsheet) on the way to remission or not, He is as healthy as before FD I will tag a member that will help you with dosing:bighug::cat::cat:
@Suzanne & Darcy
@Wendy&Neko

FOOD CHART CHECK CARBS/ FF
https://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/new-how-you-can-help-us-help-you.216696/
The Libre monitor and sensors are convenient it has its cons more than pros, the sensors tend to fall off they stop working before the 14 days, when you have a high BG will only read HI, and it is very inaccurate reading low BG's, if you see 50-56 BG , in reality is most likely in the 70-80s, I should know Corky left the hospital with one , the next day it fell off, the second sensor stopped working after 8 days, and they are very expensive, although they are guaranteed by the MFG, do not throw away the box, you can call the customer service number and they will replace it, but you cannot say is for your cat or they will not, I found out about the insufficiency of the Libre with the last one he had on, I bought the human monitor, and checked with both, and the difference was alarming.
 
Welcome to FDF, it is overwhelming when our loved cats are diagnoses with FD, and we feel is our fault it catches us by surprise especially that our cat has the same behavior as always, except the excessive water drinking, not until we pick them up and notice the weight loss, I've been there, but in this Forum I understood the Feline Diabetes is treatable and manageable, but it does not happen over night, to the three that posted here thank you , I reviewed the spreadsheets, and yes the BG's are extremely high, try to follow the suggestions give here, for dosing, diet or for and other concern.
Bryana, my Corky is also on ProZinc, the first and most important thing is testing before each dose, second diabetic cats must have a diet of wet can food, between 0-10 % carbs, several meals a day is necessary, 2 main meals and 2-3 snacks dayly. grazing on kibble is most likely what is keeping those high BGs, kibbles contain between 20-30 % carbs, cats cannot digest carbs, you mentioned Fancy Feast Pate, most of the members enjoy
FF, below is a Drs Food list where you will find all the Fancy Feast and other brands the third column contains the amount of carbs per food to keep the BG stable, I cannot advise you on dosing, but for what I have learned here 2units seems like a high dose, ProZinc is a long lasting insulin it last 12 hours, that's so the procedure would be Test, Feed, Dose, never shoot on an empty stomach, also most of the members use the ReliOn Premier human monitor and strips, you can purchase at Walmart, the monitor is $19.99 an the strips $9.00 for 50 $17.88 for 100 this monitor is very reliable, You need to have what is called HYPO KIT, this contains some medium carb food between 11-15% and some High carbs between 16-24% some Karo Syrup or honey, this is to be used in case the Bg gets to 50 or less, we can help you go thru the process if you need us. You are doing the right thing contacting us, this is a world wide Forum with excellent knowledgeable member with updated information to help us get our furr baby to good health, In order for us to help you we would like you to create your signature this will let us know more about your cat and we can relate to for advise, below is the link, and don't worry, we have all felt powerless at times, but before you know it you will be a pro, I trust this Forum blindly, and the proof is my Corky's diabetes is
right where it should be, his pancreas are finally healing after 3 years (see Spreadsheet) on the way to remission or not, He is as healthy as before FD I will tag a member that will help you with dosing:bighug::cat::cat:
@Suzanne & Darcy
@Wendy&Neko

FOOD CHART CHECK CARBS/ FF
https://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/new-how-you-can-help-us-help-you.216696/

Hi there! Thanks for the response.

I definitely do plan to get him on an all-wet food diet eventually, I just haven't wanted to go against the vet's instruction not to yet, especially since his reaction to the insulin has been so wildly inconsistent. Maybe the specialist she talks to will tell her that that needs to happen sooner. Once she comes back to me with her thoughts about the curve I sent in on Friday, if she doesn't mention it I will.

My main issue with the testing is just that as much as I want to, it will be nearly impossible for Xander and he's so smart and routine-savvy that I'm afraid that if I start doing something else he hates, I may not be able to get him to trust me enough to give injections anymore. He absolutely remembers "what happened last time" and holds a grudge about it. I hope that makes sense. So I'm wondering if, despite the Libre not lasting very long and needing the vet to place it, it might be more worthwhile to try to stick with having one of those on as much as possible (and using the manual as a backup when I don't have one).

One of the things that has been so hard with this is that he's not a typical cat. Maybe it's because he was feral, but he is so sensitive and suspicious that 99% of the suggestions I've found through all this nonstop reading haven't been things that work for him, aside from distraction with the Churu. I guess I'm hoping to find some people who might not only have experience with FD but with a really specific temperament of kitty too.
 
The Libre monitor and sensors are convenient it has its cons more than pros, the sensors tend to fall off they stop working before the 14 days, when you have a high BG will only read HI, and it is very inaccurate reading low BG's, if you see 50-56 BG , in reality is most likely in the 70-80s, I should know Corky left the hospital with one , the next day it fell off, the second sensor stopped working after 8 days, and they are very expensive, although they are guaranteed by the MFG, do not throw away the box, you can call the customer service number and they will replace it, but you cannot say is for your cat or they will not, I found out about the insufficiency of the Libre with the last one he had on, I bought the human monitor, and checked with both, and the difference was alarming.

I have heard that it can be inaccurate, and yes the "HI" readings are very annoying (those are why most of my spreadsheet says "400+" instead of a specific number). They are expensive but at least fortuntely for me it seems like it was cheaper than many other people's experiences? I think it was about $30 and our vet charged us $17 to place it. Obviously that is absolutely a lot per week though. I'm just trying to figure out whether to go with that, despite its cons, or go manual which may backfire in that he hides from me and I can't give injections anymore either (which is obviously not a solution).
 
I have heard that it can be inaccurate, and yes the "HI" readings are very annoying (those are why most of my spreadsheet says "400+" instead of a specific number). They are expensive but at least fortuntely for me it seems like it was cheaper than many other people's experiences? I think it was about $30 and our vet charged us $17 to place it. Obviously that is absolutely a lot per week though. I'm just trying to figure out whether to go with that, despite its cons, or go manual which may backfire in that he hides from me and I can't give injections anymore either (which is obviously not a solution).
perhaps is important you ask your vet if he or she is familiar with Feline diabetes, if he insist on high carb kibble food, you will never stabilize your cat and of you will have more Vet visits ($$$$) you can transition slowly from dry to wet food, making sure that when you start you need to check his BG often, in case of a drop in BG, it is not recommended to glue the sensor on the skin, it causes a rash on the skin and the skin will have to be pulled every 14 days, not a good idea, you can replace the sensor yourself if your cat allows you to, on the side of the spine mid body the instructions are very simple, just shave the area again, open the box the sensor and apply on dry skin . Less vet visits ($$)-:bighug::bighug::cat::cat:
 
perhaps is important you ask your vet if he or she is familiar with Feline diabetes, if he insist on high carb kibble food, you will never stabilize your cat and of you will have more Vet visits ($$$$) you can transition slowly from dry to wet food, making sure that when you start you need to check his BG often, in case of a drop in BG, it is not recommended to glue the sensor on the skin, it causes a rash on the skin and the skin will have to be pulled every 14 days, not a good idea, you can replace the sensor yourself if your cat allows you to, on the side of the spine mid body the instructions are very simple, just shave the area again, open the box the sensor and apply on dry skin . Less vet visits ($$)-:bighug::bighug::cat::cat:

I don't think she's insisting on kibble, just that she doesn't want to change his diet and insulin at the same time (that she'd rather wait for one to be stable before doing the other). I emailed her today about it to see what she says.

I'm not comfortable at all applying the Libre myself (I can't hold him as is, nevermind trying to shave him or anything like that) but we'll see. I'll definitely keep having them applied for the curves but am trying to pick a manual glucometer for the twice daily testing. I have a hard time making decisions like this.
 
hopefully the change of insulin will have the desired effect.

been thinking about how difficult it must be for you with xander. it easy to say i know but we can only do what we can do. i think if i were you i would accept that i can't home test for now and just try to work towards it. you probably will need to warm his ears up to get any blood to test. can you at least get him used to having his ears warmed up? if you just warm his ears a few times a day and give him treats afterwards that would be a big step towards being able to test. and maybe get regular fructosamine tests done at the vets. they will at least give you an average glucose level over the recent period which is obviously not as good home test just before dosing but it might give you a little peace of mind. and then who knows, in a week or so he might like having his ears warmed!
 
Hi Brianna
Xander is a very cute cat and I know in the beginning it’s very hard to handle testing and giving shots. I will briefly say that the Alpha Trak isn’t more likely to give errors than any human meter, and in fact has much higher accuracy standards and requires less blood—but that doesn’t matter since for now at least you’re not interested in trying more testing with a meter if it can be avoided
I’m tagging two wonderful ladies @Heike & BInie and @Staci & Ivy —they have cats that would make Xander seem tame and use Libres —they can give you all sorts of tips for prolonging life and may even psych you up to apply them yourself at some point. There’s also a Facebook group Staci will tell you about. Heike had to give Binie a break from the Libre and has become more proficient (and Binie more agreeable) at testing that she’d ever imagined. So there is hope!
Good luck with the Libre and I hope once things are more settled you can gradually try testing with a meter again as it’s very useful in case a Libre fails or has odd results.
 
Hi Brianna, I wanted to let you know that it is most definitely possible to apply the Libre sensor yourself. Heike and I both do that regularly.

I’ve had a Libre 3 sensor on Ivy for about two years now. I change them regularly whenever is necessary. I make sure to have several on hand at all times.
Sometimes they stop working for various reasons and you need to be able to change one at a moment’s notice if necessary if you want to use them long-term.

I find the Libre 3 easier to use (than Libre 2) in that you don’t have to physically scan your cat all the time.
I found that to be quite a pain and if I need to be out of the house, I’m still able to receive information all the time because it’s constantly scanning on its own.

If you find that your cat fusses with the sensor, you may need to keep it covered with either a little T-shirt or something. Some cats don’t mind that at all.

With a Libre 3 you can have the data sent remotely to your own phone. You would need to have a separate phone that you leave at home with your kitty that needs to be within 33 feet of them to read the data and then it is sent through an app and you would receive it on your phone so that way you know what’s happening at all times.

On the Freestyle Libre website there are lists of compatible phones that you can use. If you have a spare older phone or know someone who has one You can use that or you could purchase an inexpensive somewhat older phone. (You do not need Any service on the phone so that is not an added cost). I bought a used phone on eBay for Ivy And that is her phone that reads her sensor via Bluetooth.

There are some glitches with the sensors at times, but in your situation where you just can’t poke Xander all the time, it’s extremely helpful.
My cat is not one who will allow me to poke her all the time however, I am able to poke her if she happens to go very low on the Libre sensor.
I can doublecheck to make sure what her number is on a handheld meter.

Information you were given about the Facebook group is correct and it is excellent for giving you all of the information you need to get started. There are videos all kinds of good information. It’s really everything you could need. It’s where I learned everything in one place.
I’m happy to help if you have any questions, please let me know.

.
 
@Brianna & Xander
If you try to start testing with the human meter
Here is the link for the meter and test strips so you don't have to search for them
Relion Premier Classic Meter at Walmart for 9 dollars
https://www.walmart.com/ip/ReliOn-Premier-CLASSIC-Blood-Glucose-Monitoring-System/552134103

The tests strips are 17.88 for 100
https://www.walmart.com/ip/ReliOn-Premier-Blood-Glucose-Test-Strips-100-Count/575088197
At least if you need more test strips you can run into Walmart and pick them up or if you're running low you can just order them from Walmart

  • Blood sample size: 0.5 microliters


Or the
https://www.walmart.com/ip/Freestyle-Lite-Blood-Glucose-Monitor/5983301

You can get the test strips on Amazon for 38.91 for 50 test strips

Freestyle Lite meter requires only 0.3 microliters of blood for a test sample.


There also is freestyle freedom lite meter
https://www.cvs.com/shop/freestyle-freedom-lite-blood-glucose-monitoring-system-prodid-454974
FreeStyle Freedom Lite blood glucose meter requires a blood sample of 0.3 microliters

Looks like for the Freestyle Lite and the Freedom Lite you can use the same tests strips for both meters
Pic below

upload_2025-1-15_0-15-14-jpeg.72367
 
Last edited:
hopefully the change of insulin will have the desired effect.

been thinking about how difficult it must be for you with xander. it easy to say i know but we can only do what we can do. i think if i were you i would accept that i can't home test for now and just try to work towards it. you probably will need to warm his ears up to get any blood to test. can you at least get him used to having his ears warmed up? if you just warm his ears a few times a day and give him treats afterwards that would be a big step towards being able to test. and maybe get regular fructosamine tests done at the vets. they will at least give you an average glucose level over the recent period which is obviously not as good home test just before dosing but it might give you a little peace of mind. and then who knows, in a week or so he might like having his ears warmed!

I'm really touched that you've been thinking about us! This is also great advice and I'll definitely try that, thank you! Getting him into a routine is something he's generally good at (at least until it becomes unpleasant, lol)
 
Hi Brianna
Xander is a very cute cat and I know in the beginning it’s very hard to handle testing and giving shots. I will briefly say that the Alpha Trak isn’t more likely to give errors than any human meter, and in fact has much higher accuracy standards and requires less blood—but that doesn’t matter since for now at least you’re not interested in trying more testing with a meter if it can be avoided
I’m tagging two wonderful ladies @Heike & BInie and @Staci & Ivy —they have cats that would make Xander seem tame and use Libres —they can give you all sorts of tips for prolonging life and may even psych you up to apply them yourself at some point. There’s also a Facebook group Staci will tell you about. Heike had to give Binie a break from the Libre and has become more proficient (and Binie more agreeable) at testing that she’d ever imagined. So there is hope!
Good luck with the Libre and I hope once things are more settled you can gradually try testing with a meter again as it’s very useful in case a Libre fails or has odd results.

Thank you so much! Obviously I don't like that anyone has to go through this but I'm at least glad that I'm not alone with a cat that's really hard to handle. I know it's not easy for anyone but I keep feeling like so many people's cats seem easier than mine. It's always a little different for us.
 
Hi Brianna, I wanted to let you know that it is most definitely possible to apply the Libre sensor yourself. Heike and I both do that regularly.

I’ve had a Libre 3 sensor on Ivy for about two years now. I change them regularly whenever is necessary. I make sure to have several on hand at all times.
Sometimes they stop working for various reasons and you need to be able to change one at a moment’s notice if necessary if you want to use them long-term.

I find the Libre 3 easier to use (than Libre 2) in that you don’t have to physically scan your cat all the time.
I found that to be quite a pain and if I need to be out of the house, I’m still able to receive information all the time because it’s constantly scanning on its own.

If you find that your cat fusses with the sensor, you may need to keep it covered with either a little T-shirt or something. Some cats don’t mind that at all.

With a Libre 3 you can have the data sent remotely to your own phone. You would need to have a separate phone that you leave at home with your kitty that needs to be within 33 feet of them to read the data and then it is sent through an app and you would receive it on your phone so that way you know what’s happening at all times.

On the Freestyle Libre website there are lists of compatible phones that you can use. If you have a spare older phone or know someone who has one You can use that or you could purchase an inexpensive somewhat older phone. (You do not need Any service on the phone so that is not an added cost). I bought a used phone on eBay for Ivy And that is her phone that reads her sensor via Bluetooth.

There are some glitches with the sensors at times, but in your situation where you just can’t poke Xander all the time, it’s extremely helpful.
My cat is not one who will allow me to poke her all the time however, I am able to poke her if she happens to go very low on the Libre sensor.
I can doublecheck to make sure what her number is on a handheld meter.

Information you were given about the Facebook group is correct and it is excellent for giving you all of the information you need to get started. There are videos all kinds of good information. It’s really everything you could need. It’s where I learned everything in one place.
I’m happy to help if you have any questions, please let me know.

.

Thank you so so much for this response! I have desperately hoped that I could just use a Libre longterm because I genuinely just don't think he'll take the manual testing. It would probably get very expensive but at least he'd be getting tested and we'd both be so much less stressed out.

You're right, the Libre 2 was a huge pain having to scan it all the time (and it did have a ton of errors). I fully expected him to rip it off within seconds, so I got him a sweater and a soft cone. He literally got out of those in his carrier on the way home from the vet, but never fussed with the sensor. Hopefully that would stay the same. It did only last a week, but again, better than not being tested.

I'm having an absolutely awful night and feel like I'm at the breaking point. Tonight's injection he turned around and bit me, which he's never done before. Not hard, no blood and it didn't even hurt. But I just know from knowing him that it'll keep happening. :(

We picked up a vial of Lantus and some U-100 needles tonight because our vet wants us to try that instead, but with this turn of events my partner and I decided that we'd like to stop the ProZinc and ttry switching him over to the low carb wet food completely before trying the new insulin. It just seems like that's what was supposed to happen first anyway and who knows, maybe we'd get lucky enough that that would make a huge difference. If not at least we'd both get a small break from being stabbed, change the food without the danger of doing it while on insulin and hopefully have less to fight against if/when we started the Lantus. We also ordered some manual testing stuff tonight but obviously that's not looking promising so our plan is to get another Libre so we can monitor with that during the food change. Does that make sense or am I missing something obvious?

I'm utterly defeated tonight and you sharing your experience of using the Libre longterm has given me some hope, so thank you so, so much for that.
 
View attachment 72368

See you can use the test strips for either meter
Most pharmacies have them or stores like Walgreens, Walmart, CVS , Amazon
Who ever has the cheapest price
@Brianna & Xander

Thank you so much for this info! We actually picked up a Contour Next One tonight but now based on tonight's events (mentioned in another response here) it's seeming even less likely to be possible than I'd hoped. I will absolutely keep those options in mind if we end up needing to switch or anything!
 
Thank you so so much for this response! I have desperately hoped that I could just use a Libre longterm because I genuinely just don't think he'll take the manual testing. It would probably get very expensive but at least he'd be getting tested and we'd both be so much less stressed out.

You're right, the Libre 2 was a huge pain having to scan it all the time (and it did have a ton of errors). I fully expected him to rip it off within seconds, so I got him a sweater and a soft cone. He literally got out of those in his carrier on the way home from the vet, but never fussed with the sensor. Hopefully that would stay the same. It did only last a week, but again, better than not being tested.

I'm having an absolutely awful night and feel like I'm at the breaking point. Tonight's injection he turned around and bit me, which he's never done before. Not hard, no blood and it didn't even hurt. But I just know from knowing him that it'll keep happening. :(

We picked up a vial of Lantus and some U-100 needles tonight because our vet wants us to try that instead, but with this turn of events my partner and I decided that we'd like to stop the ProZinc and ttry switching him over to the low carb wet food completely before trying the new insulin. It just seems like that's what was supposed to happen first anyway and who knows, maybe we'd get lucky enough that that would make a huge difference. If not at least we'd both get a small break from being stabbed, change the food without the danger of doing it while on insulin and hopefully have less to fight against if/when we started the Lantus. We also ordered some manual testing stuff tonight but obviously that's not looking promising so our plan is to get another Libre so we can monitor with that during the food change. Does that make sense or am I missing something obvious?

I'm utterly defeated tonight and you sharing your experience of using the Libre longterm has given me some hope, so thank you so, so much for that.
Hi Brianna, all of your feelings are completely valid and understandable. The beginning of this diabetes ride is extremely difficult and there was a huge learning curve. Just know that you are not alone and it’s completely normal to feel how you are feeling.
I was an absolute mess at the beginning of my journey 2 1/2 years ago. My vet was completely hands off. In fact, she told me to look up a YouTube video to figure out how to give a shot.
When she told me that I didn’t need to test and I should just shoot blindly and she was increasing my dose every few days by half a unit or sometimes even a full unit it just didn’t feel right in my gut. That’s when I started doing some research and I ended up here And I’m so thankful that I did.

I’m glad for you that you did the same thing and now you found a community of people who want to help each other because we all know how hard this is.

I’m so sorry that Xander bit you. Remember, it’s equally stressful for him. He doesn’t know what’s happening and all the sudden things are very different so he’s stressed as you are, and I do think they pick up on our stress which, of course we can’t help.
I think if you’re going to try the food transition with a Libre, it’s certainly a good plan to see where things go.
Just remember that as you found with the Libre 2, the Libre 3 can also have glitches and can be flaky at times.
The more you use them, the more used to the glitches you become.

There’s no perfect system. But I feel like it’s much better than having no doubt at all.

There are lots of good suggestions here about how to train them to get used to giving injections or manual testing with ear pokes. I won’t go into all that here, but will say that maybe while you are trying your food trial you could just go through, trying to get him acclimated with handling. You could do things like just rubbing his ears as though you were going to test him (and then give him a low carb treat or freeze dried bit of protein) or just pulling up the skin as though you would be giving him an insulin shot and then giving him a treat just so he associates the handling and touching with something positive that he likes.
There are so many challenges with all of this, and it takes a lot of patience on our part and experiment
But, it’s worth it to try to figure out what will work with you and Xander.
As far as the sensor and him pulling it off, I would maybe try just the sweater and not the cone because I’m sure it was complete overload on him and it was too much restriction.
My Ivy did not like wearing a T-shirt although I had her wearing it for about nine months and she was biting holes in it. I eventually figured out that I put what I will call a tube top on her, something that has no shoulders, no sleeves, and she’s much more tolerant of that :)
The one time I left her sensor uncovered she had pulled it off within 10 minutes. And only one time have I seen her pull off her tube top, little Houdini that she was that day;)
Keep asking questions and let me know if there’s anything else I can do to help and keep asking questions here in general.
People will be happy to jump in and help.
:bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug:
 
Hi Brianna, all of your feelings are completely valid and understandable. The beginning of this diabetes ride is extremely difficult and there was a huge learning curve. Just know that you are not alone and it’s completely normal to feel how you are feeling.
I was an absolute mess at the beginning of my journey 2 1/2 years ago. My vet was completely hands off. In fact, she told me to look up a YouTube video to figure out how to give a shot.
When she told me that I didn’t need to test and I should just shoot blindly and she was increasing my dose every few days by half a unit or sometimes even a full unit it just didn’t feel right in my gut. That’s when I started doing some research and I ended up here And I’m so thankful that I did.

I’m glad for you that you did the same thing and now you found a community of people who want to help each other because we all know how hard this is.

I’m so sorry that Xander bit you. Remember, it’s equally stressful for him. He doesn’t know what’s happening and all the sudden things are very different so he’s stressed as you are, and I do think they pick up on our stress which, of course we can’t help.
I think if you’re going to try the food transition with a Libre, it’s certainly a good plan to see where things go.
Just remember that as you found with the Libre 2, the Libre 3 can also have glitches and can be flaky at times.
The more you use them, the more used to the glitches you become.

There’s no perfect system. But I feel like it’s much better than having no doubt at all.

There are lots of good suggestions here about how to train them to get used to giving injections or manual testing with ear pokes. I won’t go into all that here, but will say that maybe while you are trying your food trial you could just go through, trying to get him acclimated with handling. You could do things like just rubbing his ears as though you were going to test him (and then give him a low carb treat or freeze dried bit of protein) or just pulling up the skin as though you would be giving him an insulin shot and then giving him a treat just so he associates the handling and touching with something positive that he likes.
There are so many challenges with all of this, and it takes a lot of patience on our part and experiment
But, it’s worth it to try to figure out what will work with you and Xander.
As far as the sensor and him pulling it off, I would maybe try just the sweater and not the cone because I’m sure it was complete overload on him and it was too much restriction.
My Ivy did not like wearing a T-shirt although I had her wearing it for about nine months and she was biting holes in it. I eventually figured out that I put what I will call a tube top on her, something that has no shoulders, no sleeves, and she’s much more tolerant of that :)
The one time I left her sensor uncovered she had pulled it off within 10 minutes. And only one time have I seen her pull off her tube top, little Houdini that she was that day;)
Keep asking questions and let me know if there’s anything else I can do to help and keep asking questions here in general.
People will be happy to jump in and help.
:bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug:

I can't tell you how much I appreciate your help.

You're right, my same thought is that it's flaky but something is better than nothing!

Fortunately so far he's left his Libre alone other than grooming around it occasionally. I couldn't believe it. He hated the sweater so much more. Interesting idea about the tube top though! If he does start messing with them I'll look into a tiny little tube top that maybe he'd tolerate more.

The idea of continuing to do the things he's not a huge fan of minus the poke and rewarding him after is great and I'll keep doing that. I'll try to keep the routine the same, just without the needle.

Do you have any advice in terms of how soon after stopping the ProZinc it would be safe to make the food change? I gave him an injection last night but am not planning on it this morning or tonight. Should I maybe wait a full day? The whole reason for switching to Lantus is that the ProZinc works for way too short a time for him, which would imply that I shouldn't have to wait too long. And do you have any suggestions as to how to actually switch the food or at what pace? He does love the pate so I don't think getting him to eat it should be too difficult, but I obviously don't want to make him feel sick. I also don't want to take any longer than necessary to do it in case we do just immediately have to get back on the insulin.

Thank you again for your responses. You're giving me some hope when I'm feeling completely hopeless.
 
Thank you so so much for this response! I have desperately hoped that I could just use a Libre longterm because I genuinely just don't think he'll take the manual testing. It would probably get very expensive but at least he'd be getting tested and we'd both be so much less stressed out.

You're right, the Libre 2 was a huge pain having to scan it all the time (and it did have a ton of errors). I fully expected him to rip it off within seconds, so I got him a sweater and a soft cone. He literally got out of those in his carrier on the way home from the vet, but never fussed with the sensor. Hopefully that would stay the same. It did only last a week, but again, better than not being tested.

I'm having an absolutely awful night and feel like I'm at the breaking point. Tonight's injection he turned around and bit me, which he's never done before. Not hard, no blood and it didn't even hurt. But I just know from knowing him that it'll keep happening. :(

We all have been at one point of another asking us what am I doing wrong? or I can't do this!, believe me, I am a perfect example, at first I was almost at the point of a breakdown with sleepless nights, monitor from the Corky left the hospital after 8 days, given a bag full of stuff, and told here this is what he needs, a sensor that fell off the day after and the bottle of insulin fell off my hand and shattered on the floor, so I understand you perfectly, our cats know we are doing everything for their well being, this Forum and their members is the best thing to ever happen to him, he is as perfectly regulated as he can be, when I thought it was not possible, I was told to just put him to sleep, that broke me in pieces. it took 3 years of hard work and patience by me and Corky, the perfect diet and trusting this Forum blindly in every advice for dosing, and procedures. You will get there as well we all do because we love our Furr babies. I was told here the magic words. "take a step back, breath in and breath out, cats are very sensitive to stress, we stress they do so as well" it can reflect on their BG. so You are doing a great job, finding information and doing everything you can, Congratulations!;):bighug::bighug::cat::cat:
We picked up a vial of Lantus and some U-100 needles tonight because our vet wants us to try that instead, but with this turn of events my partner and I decided that we'd like to stop the ProZinc and ttry switching him over to the low carb wet food completely before trying the new insulin. It just seems like that's what was supposed to happen first anyway and who knows, maybe we'd get lucky enough that that would make a huge difference. If not at least we'd both get a small break from being stabbed, change the food without the danger of doing it while on insulin and hopefully have less to fight against if/when we started the Lantus. We also ordered some manual testing stuff tonight but obviously that's not looking promising so our plan is to get another Libre so we can monitor with that during the food change. Does that make sense or am I missing something obvious?

I'm utterly defeated tonight and you sharing your experience of using the Libre longterm has given me some hope, so thank you so, so much for that.
 
I can't tell you how much I appreciate your help.

You're right, my same thought is that it's flaky but something is better than nothing!

Fortunately so far he's left his Libre alone other than grooming around it occasionally. I couldn't believe it. He hated the sweater so much more. Interesting idea about the tube top though! If he does start messing with them I'll look into a tiny little tube top that maybe he'd tolerate more.

The idea of continuing to do the things he's not a huge fan of minus the poke and rewarding him after is great and I'll keep doing that. I'll try to keep the routine the same, just without the needle.

Do you have any advice in terms of how soon after stopping the ProZinc it would be safe to make the food change? I gave him an injection last night but am not planning on it this morning or tonight. Should I maybe wait a full day? The whole reason for switching to Lantus is that the ProZinc works for way too short a time for him, which would imply that I shouldn't have to wait too long. And do you have any suggestions as to how to actually switch the food or at what pace? He does love the pate so I don't think getting him to eat it should be too difficult, but I obviously don't want to make him feel sick. I also don't want to take any longer than necessary to do it in case we do just immediately have to get back on the insulin.

Thank you again for your responses. You're giving me some hope when I'm feeling completely hopeless.

Weather changing insulin or not it needs to be done slowly and testing often every day often,while making the transition, I do not understand why would you stop dosing, just because you are changing insulin, and why ProZinc is an excellent insulin, for what I see the spreadsheet, he's RED all over the place, I am sure you are prepared for even higher BG's by not dosing, and many radical changes in his BG there could be a chance that you might be giving a a fur shot??:bighug::bighug::cat::cat:
 
Last edited:
Weather changing insulin or not it needs to be done slowly and testing often every day often,while making the transition, I do not understand why would you stop dosing, just because you are changing insulin, and why ProZinc is an excellent insulin, for what I see the spreadsheet, he's RED all over the place, I am sure you are prepared for even higher BG's by not dosing, and many radical changes in his BG.:bighug::bighug::cat::cat:

I wouldn't be planning on stopping dosing permanently, just temporarily to do the switch so that the risk of a hypo isn't there. Unless we were lucky enough that just the diet change was enough, we'd be starting the Lantus right after. We just figured that would be a less risky way to make the food transition.

The ProZinc isn't working for us (like you pointed out, he's mostly high) so we're going to be switching to the Lantus anyway, we just thought doing the food change in between without having to worry about hypos would be easier than managing both insulin and diet change at once, and that we'd be able to do the change quicker because there'd be no danger of lows. Once he was switched to the wet food we'd start the insulin again.

If that's not really an option then I guess I'll call my vet as soon as they open, see if they can squeeze us in to place a new Libre today, and I'll continue as is for now with insulin but slowly start increasing the wet food and decreasing the dry food until there's none. I don't want to the change with insulin until I can watch his numbers and right now the CGM is the only option to see them.

:(
 
I struggled with food change timing when we started too. We did it over the course of a week or two.

If you’re looking for an example, in my spreadsheet for last year I put a divider when we switched to LC wet, and you can definitely notice a decrease in numbers. I tried keeping insulin dose the same during this change to see what the food only difference was.

Being able to see the numbers is key though, so it sounds like you have a good plan.
 
Hi Brianna,

I’m not sure what time period you were thinking of being off one insulin and onto the other but I’d echo Maria’s concerns: his BG are high already and on a Libre that tends to read lower than actual numbers. I wouldn’t delay getting him on the new insulin unless your vet says it’s ok. They certainly won’t ok the several weeks it may take to fully transition him. What you don’t want to do is rush the transition as a diabetic cat that stops eating can develop DKA. Just as a diabetic cat that isn’t getting insulin can develop DKA.

when his glucose is that high it’s likely he’s not getting enough usable energy from eating. His body will start breaking down fat for energy and can rapidly damage the liver, build up ketones and end up very very sick very quickly. Please contact your vet for advice about delaying the lantus. She may be ok with you testing less frequently but please talk with her about a dose he can take if you’re still having trouble testing.

re shots I have two suggestions: often if eating they don’t notice the shot, and shooting in the scruff is easier for beginners. It’s not an ideal location because of irregular adsorption but it’s where we used to always inject decades ago—and until you build up confidence may be easiest for you.


I know this is stressful but you will get the hang of it I promise. You might see if you can pay a pet sitter (who are often vet techs or one with diabetic cat experience) to come for a few visits. They can maybe test and certainly inject—he will be more relaxed at home and you can watch and learn. Good luck
 
I struggled with food change timing when we started too. We did it over the course of a week or two.

If you’re looking for an example, in my spreadsheet for last year I put a divider when we switched to LC wet, and you can definitely notice a decrease in numbers. I tried keeping insulin dose the same during this change to see what the food only difference was.

Being able to see the numbers is key though, so it sounds like you have a good plan.

I'll check that out! Thank you, that's really helpful! I agreed that it would be important to be able to see the numbers so we're getting a new Libre (the 3 this time instead of the 2) placed this afternoon.
 
I'll check that out! Thank you, that's really helpful! I agreed that it would be important to be able to see the numbers so we're getting a new Libre (the 3 this time instead of the 2) placed this afternoon.
Good job! you do not want to keep his without his dose for too long, it will destroy his pancreas and risk of ketones, make sure when you begin the Lantus you change it on the Spreadsheet as well as the food you are giving and the to the Libre 3 :bighug::cat::cat:
 
Hi Brianna,

I’m not sure what time period you were thinking of being off one insulin and onto the other but I’d echo Maria’s concerns: his BG are high already and on a Libre that tends to read lower than actual numbers. I wouldn’t delay getting him on the new insulin unless your vet says it’s ok. They certainly won’t ok the several weeks it may take to fully transition him. What you don’t want to do is rush the transition as a diabetic cat that stops eating can develop DKA. Just as a diabetic cat that isn’t getting insulin can develop DKA.

when his glucose is that high it’s likely he’s not getting enough usable energy from eating. His body will start breaking down fat for energy and can rapidly damage the liver, build up ketones and end up very very sick very quickly. Please contact your vet for advice about delaying the lantus. She may be ok with you testing less frequently but please talk with her about a dose he can take if you’re still having trouble testing.

re shots I have two suggestions: often if eating they don’t notice the shot, and shooting in the scruff is easier for beginners. It’s not an ideal location because of irregular adsorption but it’s where we used to always inject decades ago—and until you build up confidence may be easiest for you.


I know this is stressful but you will get the hang of it I promise. You might see if you can pay a pet sitter (who are often vet techs or one with diabetic cat experience) to come for a few visits. They can maybe test and certainly inject—he will be more relaxed at home and you can watch and learn. Good luck


We actually just came from the vet and finally got some answers and a plan, so that's really nice.

Just to mention: we do normally give him a Churu while we do it (food isn't interesting enough for him but he'd kill for a Churu) and he actually reacts way more to being touched near the scruff than the hips. We tried that a lot but he just hated it so much, for whatever reason.

So we won't stop insulin. The vet still wants us to switch over to the Lantus, but we're getting a new Libre 3 placed today to monitor numbers. He's already eating a mix of the wet food and he definitely prefers it, so getting him to eat doesn't seem like it should be an issue. We're going to give him 3 cans/day but also leave a little bit of his dry food out to seek out if he needs/wants it. We'll keep an eye on the numbers and she doesn't want to see it go below 80. We'll also have honey and higher carb kibble on hand if needed.

For the injections themselves she's giving us some Gabapentin for his anxiety and also some topical cream to numb the spot because she thinks he has some neuropathy and is extra sensitive. Hoping with all of my might that this will be the thing that turns it around for us and finally makes this possible! For the moment I finally don't feel like I'm literally falling apart. Crossing my fingers as hard as I can.
 
We actually just came from the vet and finally got some answers and a plan, so that's really nice.

Just to mention: we do normally give him a Churu while we do it (food isn't interesting enough for him but he'd kill for a Churu) and he actually reacts way more to being touched near the scruff than the hips. We tried that a lot but he just hated it so much, for whatever reason.

So we won't stop insulin. The vet still wants us to switch over to the Lantus, but we're getting a new Libre 3 placed today to monitor numbers. He's already eating a mix of the wet food and he definitely prefers it, so getting him to eat doesn't seem like it should be an issue. We're going to give him 3 cans/day but also leave a little bit of his dry food out to seek out if he needs/wants it. We'll keep an eye on the numbers and she doesn't want to see it go below 80. We'll also have honey and higher carb kibble on hand if needed.

For the injections themselves she's giving us some Gabapentin for his anxiety and also some topical cream to numb the spot because she thinks he has some neuropathy and is extra sensitive. Hoping with all of my might that this will be the thing that turns it around for us and finally makes this possible! For the moment I finally don't feel like I'm literally falling apart. Crossing my fingers as hard as I can.
You are doing an amazing job and taking such good care of him. @Sheila and Minky also has a cat that really didn’t like tests or shots and was especially sensitive to shots. She’s super busy with two jobs and several sick kitties but she may drop by for moral support. Minky has become better with time.
It sounds like you’ve got a solid game plan. Remember: you’ve got this, even when it feels like you don’t. It gets better.
Hugs
 
Hi Brianne, welcome to the board! I am sorry this is such a struggle for you and Xander at the moment. I can completely relate. Binie is also a "special" cat and I thought I would never manage to inject twice a day, do tests or even apply the libre myself. But we managed together and you will do that too with Xander.

From my experience with Binie: Usually she cooperates getting injections if I keep her busy with a plate, where I spread churus on. She is licking the churus, I inject. I noticed that she can sense when I am very nervous and that makes her more likely to not cooperate. So I do my best to make myself comfortable before the injection and usually that makes things easier.

The first ten month of her diagnosis I was using the libre full time, because testing was so difficult and I was also scared I couldn't inject her anymore, if she is already annoyed after the test. While she was wearing the libre, I tried to train testing with her. Again, the churus on the plate safed us. Binie would never let me poke her ear without churus. :joyful: She doesn't believe in getting rewards afterwards. I respect that and so we manage. Since she had an allergic reaction to the skin protection barrier I used to apply the libre, I didn't apply her libre anymore to give her skin a break. To my surprise she cooperates well with the pokes, if I don't do it too much.

The first month of her diagnosis we went to the vet to apply the libre, then I learned with the help of the fantastic facebook group "Freestyle libre for cats and dogs" to do it myself. Like you, I thought I couldn't do it because I could never hold Binie. But I found a way how to apply it, where holding is not necessary. I found out that I can apply the libre without problems, if she is lying in a certain position and is fully relaxed. Sometimes she is hissing at me because the applicator makes a loud noise but in this moment the libre is already on. The only hard thing is to be ready in the right moment, where she is lying in the correct position.

So we also came a long way Brianne and I never thought we would manage. But we did and now we are on this journey for one year. You will manage too with Xander. Maybe the key for treating him is the same as with Binie: make it attractive for him to cooperate. No pressure, many rewards. And churus in all different flavors. :)

If there is anything you want to ask, feel free! I keep my fingers crossed things get easier soon for you and Xander! :bighug::bighug::bighug:
 
I can't tell you how much I appreciate your help.

You're right, my same thought is that it's flaky but something is better than nothing!

Fortunately so far he's left his Libre alone other than grooming around it occasionally. I couldn't believe it. He hated the sweater so much more. Interesting idea about the tube top though! If he does start messing with them I'll look into a tiny little tube top that maybe he'd tolerate more.

The idea of continuing to do the things he's not a huge fan of minus the poke and rewarding him after is great and I'll keep doing that. I'll try to keep the routine the same, just without the needle.

Do you have any advice in terms of how soon after stopping the ProZinc it would be safe to make the food change? I gave him an injection last night but am not planning on it this morning or tonight. Should I maybe wait a full day? The whole reason for switching to Lantus is that the ProZinc works for way too short a time for him, which would imply that I shouldn't have to wait too long. And do you have any suggestions as to how to actually switch the food or at what pace? He does love the pate so I don't think getting him to eat it should be too difficult, but I obviously don't want to make him feel sick. I also don't want to take any longer than necessary to do it in case we do just immediately have to get back on the insulin.

Thank you again for your responses. You're giving me some hope when I'm feeling completely hopeless.
I'm so glad to hear it went well at the vet today and you are getting some great advice!
Please keep posting and let us know how you are both doing (and link your last post as well) so we can follow along and help you!

You've got this, remember to breathe, we are here to help :bighug::bighug::bighug:
 
You are doing an amazing job and taking such good care of him. @Sheila and Minky also has a cat that really didn’t like tests or shots and was especially sensitive to shots. She’s super busy with two jobs and several sick kitties but she may drop by for moral support. Minky has become better with time.
It sounds like you’ve got a solid game plan. Remember: you’ve got this, even when it feels like you don’t. It gets better.
Hugs

Thank you so much for the encouragement and for summoning Sheila and Minky!! ❤
 
Hi Brianne, welcome to the board! I am sorry this is such a struggle for you and Xander at the moment. I can completely relate. Binie is also a "special" cat and I thought I would never manage to inject twice a day, do tests or even apply the libre myself. But we managed together and you will do that too with Xander.

From my experience with Binie: Usually she cooperates getting injections if I keep her busy with a plate, where I spread churus on. She is licking the churus, I inject. I noticed that she can sense when I am very nervous and that makes her more likely to not cooperate. So I do my best to make myself comfortable before the injection and usually that makes things easier.

The first ten month of her diagnosis I was using the libre full time, because testing was so difficult and I was also scared I couldn't inject her anymore, if she is already annoyed after the test. While she was wearing the libre, I tried to train testing with her. Again, the churus on the plate safed us. Binie would never let me poke her ear without churus. :joyful: She doesn't believe in getting rewards afterwards. I respect that and so we manage. Since she had an allergic reaction to the skin protection barrier I used to apply the libre, I didn't apply her libre anymore to give her skin a break. To my surprise she cooperates well with the pokes, if I don't do it too much.

The first month of her diagnosis we went to the vet to apply the libre, then I learned with the help of the fantastic facebook group "Freestyle libre for cats and dogs" to do it myself. Like you, I thought I couldn't do it because I could never hold Binie. But I found a way how to apply it, where holding is not necessary. I found out that I can apply the libre without problems, if she is lying in a certain position and is fully relaxed. Sometimes she is hissing at me because the applicator makes a loud noise but in this moment the libre is already on. The only hard thing is to be ready in the right moment, where she is lying in the correct position.

So we also came a long way Brianne and I never thought we would manage. But we did and now we are on this journey for one year. You will manage too with Xander. Maybe the key for treating him is the same as with Binie: make it attractive for him to cooperate. No pressure, many rewards. And churus in all different flavors. :)

If there is anything you want to ask, feel free! I keep my fingers crossed things get easier soon for you and Xander! :bighug::bighug::bighug:

Hi there! Thank you so much for the response. I'm sorry that you can relate but it's so comforting to know that I'm not the only one with a "special" kitty.

The Churu really does seem to be a lifesaver lol If I'm not able to continue with the Libres longterm I'll be sure to try to use those for then too. The vet did give us some lidocaine to use for the injections. I wonder if it would be helpful for the ear pricking too if we end up having to do it manually.

How often do you manually test now?

Thank you so much again! I appreciate you.
 
I'm so glad to hear it went well at the vet today and you are getting some great advice!
Please keep posting and let us know how you are both doing (and link your last post as well) so we can follow along and help you!

You've got this, remember to breathe, we are here to help :bighug::bighug::bighug:

I definitely will! Thank you so much for all of the advice and encouragement, everyone. Hopefully things will be looking up now! :bighug:
 
We actually just came from the vet and finally got some answers and a plan, so that's really nice.

Just to mention: we do normally give him a Churu while we do it (food isn't interesting enough for him but he'd kill for a Churu) and he actually reacts way more to being touched near the scruff than the hips. We tried that a lot but he just hated it so much, for whatever reason.

So we won't stop insulin. The vet still wants us to switch over to the Lantus, but we're getting a new Libre 3 placed today to monitor numbers. He's already eating a mix of the wet food and he definitely prefers it, so getting him to eat doesn't seem like it should be an issue. We're going to give him 3 cans/day but also leave a little bit of his dry food out to seek out if he needs/wants it. We'll keep an eye on the numbers and she doesn't want to see it go below 80. We'll also have honey and higher carb kibble on hand if needed.

Great news! if Xander is intaking the wet food with no problems, you can start every day by adding an extra on each meal 1-2 tsp at a time, it is recommended for diabetic cats to eat 2 main meals AMPS/PMPS and 2-3 small meals or snacks( 3tsp) during the day to keep the insulin in check, if you go to Corky's SS and scroll to the right you will see in Remarks how he is fed and the amount of food, also for wet foods most of the members here enjoy Fancy Feast Pates, they are US made so it is regulated no waste goes into the food, many flavors and brands to choose from, especially chunky foods that kibble lovers will enjoy, below is a link of Drs food list the third column contains the %s of carbs
LOW CARBS / 0-10% ((True % for diabetic cats)
MED CARBS / 11-15%
HIGH CARBS / 16-24% (gravies at best)
:bighug::bighug::cat::cat:

great news!

For the injections themselves she's giving us some Gabapentin for his anxiety and also some topical cream to numb the spot because she thinks he has some neuropathy and is extra sensitive. Hoping with all of my might that this will be the thing that turns it around for us and finally makes this possible! For the moment I finally don't feel like I'm literally falling apart. Crossing my fingers as hard as I can.
 

I only just now realized that your responses are showing up within the quote itself and not just below! Sorry about that.

Thank you! I'll check out Corky's SS too. :)
 
Hi everyone,

My 11 year old boy Xander was diagnosed about a month ago, on December 11th. His drinking and urinating had increased to a shocking degree incredibly suddenly. I had never really given him any crunch treats before a couple of months ago, but had gotten a free bag of Friskies Party Mix and was giving him a few daily (half or less than the bag "recommended"). At first I thought maybe they'd just made him really thirsty, so I immediately stopped the treats but drinking/urinating stayed crazily high, so at that point I obviously got him to the vet. I would imagine this was going on long beforehand and that the treats just tipped the scale, and I'm sure that makes me look like an idiot.

I apologize for how lengthy this will probably end up being but as is often the case for me I feel like there are extra circumstances that make my situation weird/difficult.

For some background, I'm Brianna. I'm 33 and have had Xander since late 2013. He was probably about 4 months old when I adopted him and he had been feral. He's such a sweet boy, but has always been very sensitive and nervous. In many ways personality-wise he's almost literally just me as a cat. He loves my partner, but I'm definitely his chosen person. I'm disabled so I'm usually home, and we basically spend every second together. If I'm at my desk he's probably laying on it or in his designated chair next to me. If I get up to go to the bathroom or get a drink, he follows. Even so, 11 years down the line I've never been able to "hold" him. Don't get me wrong; he loves to be held, but only if he doesn't think that's what's happening.That usually means laying on my desk in front of me with my arms around him with his face all snuggled up into my chest. (Picture examples: One, two, three) lol Even with me, he gets very nervous if he thinks he's going to be trapped/held somewhere.

He's eaten Science Diet Sensitive Stomach & Skin basically his whole life. After diagnosis, our vet said she didn't want to change his diet and start insulin at the same time, so we were instructed to keep him on that food for now. She also didn't recommend we do any at-home BG testing because of the difference between pet and human trackers, etc. She prescribed 2 units of ProZinc every 12 hours.

When we went back to the vet 6 days after the first visit, to get a demo on how to do injections, he had lost about a pound just in that time (about 12.25 lb down to 11.25) and his BG was 480. :( The first day we were supposed to start injections was the night of December 23rd. I had been reading everything I could (especially the resources here) since diagnosis so I knew the dangers of going too low and was very uncomfortable giving any insulin without knowing if it was safe... and then he also wouldn't eat. He's always been a grazer, but we'd also taken the food away several hours beforehand to make sure he'd eat before the injection. The vet had given us her number to text her over the holiday if we needed her so finally, mid-panic attack, we did. She suggested that we give him a little bit of wet food to entice him, let him continue to graze on the dry food and to just give 1 unit to be safe. We didn't have any wet food, so we skipped that dose and picked some up on Christmas Eve.

So now to ensure he eats something, I give him half of a 3oz can of Fancy Feast Classic Pate before each injection, alongside his dry food (which I let him graze on, but I do measure it out). The next problem was that he's terrified and untrusting of the simplest things, so even going to tent the skin he'd freak out and run. The first several I had to have my partner hold him down for which only made him more afraid. Calling his name or even putting food out for him, he wouldn't come. He's smart and picks up on routine so fast.

He had really liked the Churu treat from the vet, so I started trying to distract him with those while I did it, putting it on a plate for him to lick off. That worked great for a couple of days, he didn't even seem to notice the needle! And then he started jumping away the instant I went for his skin again.

This getting better/getting worse cycle repeated for a while. Having the vet shave some spots on his hips (he can't stand me going for his scruff area, I can only do the flank) helped a lot to be able to see. It's finally going a little better but I have to be so quick about it that I don't have time to do any of the "pull back to see blood" etc, I just have to get it in and inject before he runs. He does flinch and pull away but as soon as the needle is out he goes back to his treat. Afterward he gets unlimited loves and praises until he decides he's done. Even though it's going better now it's so stressful every time and even my hands shake for a good hour afterward. Seems to be more traumatic for me than for him!

A week and a half ago he started to seem particularly lethargic, not interested in food, vomiting some of the time. I was worried about DKA or any number of things, so the vet took him in for the day to give him fluids and keep an eye on him. When he'd been diagnosed his liver "showed signs of inflammation" but she thought it was likely secondary to the diabetes, and after this visit she confirmed that his liver numbers had returned to normal even after a short time on insulin, and that his tests showed that pancreatitis was unlikely. Essentially she said that everything was looking okay but if we wanted to keep investigating we could do an abdominal ultrasound. He seemed to just start to feel better shortly after this so we didn't end up doing that.

A week ago we got a FreeStyle Libre 2 placed. I didn't think there was a chance in hell he'd let it stay on for more than an hour, but especially since he's so hard to even give injections to, I don't feel like we'd have much luck pricking him twice a day and I can't really risk making it impossible to even do the injections because he's learned not to come to me anymore.

As you can probably see from his spreadsheet, his reactions to the insulin are ridiculously inconsistent. At first he'd drop (comparatively) super low, then climb right back up really quickly. I showed this to the vet way earlier than the 72 hours she requested for the curve, asking if maybe it was bouncing or rebound (or whatever) and she said that this wasn't the case because the drop wasn't happening within an hour of injection, and that this just looked like it was a short action insulin for him. She said she'd also talk to a specialist and see what they thought, and that he might just need a different insulin. Since then he's alternated between literally no discernible reaction in BG numbers to one night dropping as low as 98. Nothing between any of these doses has changed in regards to food, treats, dosage, etc. It's like if he reacts to one dose, his body ignores the next one or two. I have no idea what to make of it.

I sent the vet the full 72 hours' worth on Friday afternoon so naturally we haven't heard anything back yet but I'm just so tired of wondering so I was hoping you experienced, wonderful people might have some thoughts.

I know that everyone here says that home testing is vital. I also know that my cat is so sensitive and nervous that capturing him to prick his ear will be insanely difficult and possibly make it impossible to give injections anymore. (On that note, even the vet tech had difficulty getting his ear to bleed.) The Libre just died today (day 7) and is starting to fall off a little. It often had errors and was annoying, but it still seemed at least more doable than manual. I feel like bringing him to the vet to get it placed is more stressful for him than having it on is, but I'm also absolutely not comfortable trying to place it myself. The vet finally answered my question of which pet monitor she'd recommend if I had to use one and she said Alpha Trak, but from what I understand those are crazily more expensive over time than the human ones and also often have errors, which will obviously also add to the cost.

I guess my questions are:

• What on earth do you think is going on with his reactions to injections? Why does he sometimes react so strongly and other times literally not at all? I know a lot of people immediately switch to low-carb wet food but our vet didn't want us to do that. Could that be the whole problem as opposed to needing a different insulin?

• What should we do about testing? I wish the Libre lasted longer because it'd be a no-brainer. I'd also at least like to have the option to test him manually if I need to, but I just don't know what to do. I know that human meters are much cheaper than pet ones, but which one would you recommend as least jarring/possibly painful for a very scared, sensitive cat? Needs less blood, maybe?

• The sensor itself on the Libre has come mostly detached from the adhesive pad, but the pad is still stuck. I'm not sure if I should leave it and let it fall the rest of the way off (the edges are lifted) or ask the vet to take it off. I'm afraid to hurt him (or make him afraid of me).

I'm so stressed nonstop that I feel like I'm going to crack open. I'm crying every day and it's all I think about. I'm chronically ill and it's hard enough to take care of myself, but now I'm taking care of my chronically ill best friend too and there's just nothing left of me for anything else. He is absolutely worth it and I'll do everything I can to make my best buddy healthy and happy again, but I'm just as afraid and sensitive a beast as he is and I feel all alone in this. In one way it's amazing that my vet is willing to text me after hours if I have questions, but in another way I feel thrown out without a life vest and keep feeling like what I'm told is at odds with what I read here, so I'm just... terrified. All the time.

One of the things that has been so hard with this is that he's not a typical cat. Maybe it's because he was feral, but he is so sensitive and suspicious that 99% of the suggestions I've found through all this nonstop reading haven't been things that work for him, aside from distraction with the Churu. I guess I'm hoping to find some people who might not only have experience with FD but with a really specific temperament of kitty too.

Thank you so much if you took the time to read this far. I can't express how much I appreciate it. My entire life for the past month has literally been nothing but researching this and taking care of him, but I'm sorry if any of this sounds stupid/uninformed. I've been writing this for so long that now I'm about to go to bed but I'll be here first thing in the morning and will answer any and all questions you might have.

I wanted to add a few images but don't want them to make the post massive since I can't resize them, so here are some links lol

This is what our version of "being held" is: One, two, three
And here are just a couple cute ones: One, two :)

Edit 1 (1/14 1:27 PM): The vet just emailed me about his curve and said that she spoke with an internist who agreed that the ProZinc is working but has too short a duration for him and that he needs to switch. She's prescribing 2 units of glargine now instead, said that there's no need for a washout; to just switch at the next dose. I also asked her if it would be wise to start the full switch to low carb wet food but haven't gotten a response yet.

Edit 2 (1/14 10:14 PM): Every step forward comes with two steps back, it seems. Tonight he turned around and bit me with the injection. Not hard, no blood drawn, it didn't even hurt. But I know just from knowing him that this will continue. I'm utterly defeated and am stressed to the point of it manifesting physically. In no way do I plan to stop treatment, but I'm struggling with just trying to exist in any capacity aside from this and I'm trying so hard but this just isn't working as is.

My partner and I decided that we'd like to pause insulin (stop ProZinc but not start Lantus yet) just long enough to switch his diet over entirely to the low carb wet food. It shouldn't be a problem because he loves it! But I know it's harder and dangerous to do while also on insulin so we thought it would make sense to do that before starting the new one instead. We plan to get another Libre placed so we can watch his trend with the food change. If we're ridiculously lucky maybe it will be enough to make a difference, and if not at least there will be less to fight against when starting insulin again. I did email my vet tonight to ask if there's anything we should know first, like how long after his last injection it's safe to start this, and if there's any specific way to go about it, but I'd also like to hear what you all think. Since his action time for the ProZinc was so short (hence switching to Lantus), it doesn't seem like it should take long before it was safe. Maybe a day? Two? Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated.
Hi Brianna,

First, what a sweet beautiful baby <3 I know how incredibly stressful all of this is especially when you struggle with your health too. Minky, my black kitty, was diagnosed with DKA shortly after I came back from a three-week visit with my dad in India; that was around August 10th. She had been given a steroid shot for feline hyperesthesia in June. And steroids can trigger diabetes. Apparently, this is what happened along with not eating well and probably inflammation in her body. It hit me out of left field though, and we thought we were going to lose her. We took her home from the emergency vet not knowing how much time we had with her. They had given her fluids, electrolytes, and some other things. For the next several days, I was force feeding her, giving an appetite stimulant, testing her, and giving insulin. Testing was going bad and Minky hated the needles. I want to encourage you it does get better. You develop a system. It is new to our kitties and to us.
Some things that helped me with testing:
- warm the ear up (I used a warm damp paper towel but others use a warm rice sock) and put some Vaseline on the outside where the needle will go (it helps to bead the blood up)
- try to prick closer to the edge of the ear and then when you draw blood hold a dry paper towel over it to stop the bleed
- over time it seems to be the more you prick the more the blood comes easier

I do use an AlphaTrak but have used Relion from Walmart. Relion is definitely cheaper, but the AlphaTrak requires less blood which in your case would probably be better for that reason (but I understand the cost factor). Try to find a place where Xander is comfortable. Over time, my little girl usually heads for the couch when she know her insulin is coming. This took some time so don't get discouraged. She also was very bitey with me, swatted the needle out of my hand, and even cut my hand with her claws so much so that I cried. But I was determined. I had to be confident, and authoritative (not mean) with her. I gently and firmly held her neck and used the one spot that she seems to be more okay with a needle going (right area side of her chest above her leg--it is hard to describe, but it works for us). I had wondered if her nerve condition was making her skin super sensitive so the vet agreed to send a script to the compounding pharmacy for gabapentin I could put in the ear (transdermal). That did seem to help some and got us into a routine; usually now I don't need it. I had to tell her firmly we had to do this, and I tried to do it quicker; I didn't want to insert the needle in muscle so I would have to be careful to not do it so fast I was reckless. I get the 6 mm, 31 gauge 3/10mL with half unit markings Relion syringes which seem to be less sore for her. Give yourself and Xander some grace--this is new for both of you. I promise you will develop a routine. Now when my little girl hears the cupboard, most times she will head for the couch. I will tent her skin, she will hiss, I will give her her insulin and tell her what a good girl she is and how proud I am of her. Your baby may not stick around that long to hear praise or receive a kiss, but he will start to feel better and see you are not hurting him and that you are trying to help him.

Initially, I left dry food out but up on a table in case she felt she really needed it, but we eventually decided that that was not a good idea as it really spiked her. I found she really like Temptations Seafood Medley pate which is around 3 or 3 1/2% carbs. I was feeding her every 4-5 hours. In fact, I feed her whenever she is hungry. I was trying to get into her as much low carb food as I could and can. As you get going in the various cycles you may need at times to feed medium carb or higher carb food, but that is for a different post. There are different foods out there that are low carb; find one he loves or a few he loves. I also leave it out so she can graze if I am not around or sleeping.

I am only into this process 4.5 months. I am still very much learning. Having a support network with others who understand is huge. We are here for you. **hugs** for you both!
 
Hi Brianna,

First, what a sweet beautiful baby <3 I know how incredibly stressful all of this is especially when you struggle with your health too. Minky, my black kitty, was diagnosed with DKA shortly after I came back from a three-week visit with my dad in India; that was around August 10th. She had been given a steroid shot for feline hyperesthesia in June. And steroids can trigger diabetes. Apparently, this is what happened along with not eating well and probably inflammation in her body. It hit me out of left field though, and we thought we were going to lose her. We took her home from the emergency vet not knowing how much time we had with her. They had given her fluids, electrolytes, and some other things. For the next several days, I was force feeding her, giving an appetite stimulant, testing her, and giving insulin. Testing was going bad and Minky hated the needles. I want to encourage you it does get better. You develop a system. It is new to our kitties and to us.
Some things that helped me with testing:
- warm the ear up (I used a warm damp paper towel but others use a warm rice sock) and put some Vaseline on the outside where the needle will go (it helps to bead the blood up)
- try to prick closer to the edge of the ear and then when you draw blood hold a dry paper towel over it to stop the bleed
- over time it seems to be the more you prick the more the blood comes easier

I do use an AlphaTrak but have used Relion from Walmart. Relion is definitely cheaper, but the AlphaTrak requires less blood which in your case would probably be better for that reason (but I understand the cost factor). Try to find a place where Xander is comfortable. Over time, my little girl usually heads for the couch when she know her insulin is coming. This took some time so don't get discouraged. She also was very bitey with me, swatted the needle out of my hand, and even cut my hand with her claws so much so that I cried. But I was determined. I had to be confident, and authoritative (not mean) with her. I gently and firmly held her neck and used the one spot that she seems to be more okay with a needle going (right area side of her chest above her leg--it is hard to describe, but it works for us). I had wondered if her nerve condition was making her skin super sensitive so the vet agreed to send a script to the compounding pharmacy for gabapentin I could put in the ear (transdermal). That did seem to help some and got us into a routine; usually now I don't need it. I had to tell her firmly we had to do this, and I tried to do it quicker; I didn't want to insert the needle in muscle so I would have to be careful to not do it so fast I was reckless. I get the 6 mm, 31 gauge 3/10mL with half unit markings Relion syringes which seem to be less sore for her. Give yourself and Xander some grace--this is new for both of you. I promise you will develop a routine. Now when my little girl hears the cupboard, most times she will head for the couch. I will tent her skin, she will hiss, I will give her her insulin and tell her what a good girl she is and how proud I am of her. Your baby may not stick around that long to hear praise or receive a kiss, but he will start to feel better and see you are not hurting him and that you are trying to help him.

Initially, I left dry food out but up on a table in case she felt she really needed it, but we eventually decided that that was not a good idea as it really spiked her. I found she really like Temptations Seafood Medley pate which is around 3 or 3 1/2% carbs. I was feeding her every 4-5 hours. In fact, I feed her whenever she is hungry. I was trying to get into her as much low carb food as I could and can. As you get going in the various cycles you may need at times to feed medium carb or higher carb food, but that is for a different post. There are different foods out there that are low carb; find one he loves or a few he loves. I also leave it out so she can graze if I am not around or sleeping.

I am only into this process 4.5 months. I am still very much learning. Having a support network with others who understand is huge. We are here for you. **hugs** for you both!

Aww, I'm so sorry to hear about your sweet Minky! It sounds like you've both been through so much!

Thank you so much for the suggestions for testing! Our vet gave us some licodaine yesterday to help with injections since he's so sensitive, so maybe if I end up not being able to use the Libre long-term, I can try some of that.

I really admire your ability to just "get the thing done" with a poor kitty who isn't cooperative! It's so hard when you just want to help and they don't understand. :( My vet did also give us some Gabapentin so for the last two injections I've put some in a small amount of his food (it's a capsule) and it definitely has calmed him a bit. It takes a bit to kick in though.

I'm still leaving a little bit of dry food out in case she needs it (at the vet's suggestion), but only 1/3rd cup. I'm trying to feed him some small meals every 3-4 hours and hopefully that'll make him not as interested in the dry food, but at least in the beginning of the switch and with a new insulin, I want him to be able to go to it if he feels low.

4.5 months is short but I know it feels so long! I feel like I've been doing nothing but this for a whole year and it's only been like 5 weeks.

Thank you so much for your thoughtful response! I really appreciate the advice and the commiseration! :bighug:
 
Hi there! Thank you so much for the response. I'm sorry that you can relate but it's so comforting to know that I'm not the only one with a "special" kitty.

The Churu really does seem to be a lifesaver lol If I'm not able to continue with the Libres longterm I'll be sure to try to use those for then too. The vet did give us some lidocaine to use for the injections. I wonder if it would be helpful for the ear pricking too if we end up having to do it manually.

How often do you manually test now?

Thank you so much again! I appreciate you.

Hi Brianne,

just take a look into our ss for the tests. It always depends on her cycle, how often I test. I always test before I inject and most of the times I test at +2 or +3. From there on I decide, how often I have to test.

I think lidocaine is not needed. If you test more at the edge of the ear, there are not many nerves. Binie doesn't flinch if I prick her. She just doesn't like me pressing her ear after it. I do that to prevent bruises. Maybe start making Xander more comfortable with you touching his ear.

It's a lot to learn but I am sure, if we can do it you can do it too! I cried a lot in the beginning and sometimes thought I never manage. But keep on trying. One day it will work. Good luck with it! :bighug::bighug::bighug:
 
Hi Brianne,

just take a look into our ss for the tests. It always depends on her cycle, how often I test. I always test before I inject and most of the times I test at +2 or +3. From there on I decide, how often I have to test.

I think lidocaine is not needed. If you test more at the edge of the ear, there are not many nerves. Binie doesn't flinch if I prick her. She just doesn't like me pressing her ear after it. I do that to prevent bruises. Maybe start making Xander more comfortable with you touching his ear.

It's a lot to learn but I am sure, if we can do it you can do it too! I cried a lot in the beginning and sometimes thought I never manage. But keep on trying. One day it will work. Good luck with it! :bighug::bighug::bighug:

I think Xander's just so insanely sensitive to literally everything that he'd probably react to that too. Although at least for now, with the exception of tickling, he doesn't seem to mind me touching his ears briefly at least.

I really do spend a good majority of my time crying lol :( Yesterday was another especially bad day. Trying to keep telling myself things will get better, but it's hard because history has shown that for us, improvement lasts a day and then we're somehow even worse off than we were.
 
I think Xa
Hi everyone,

My 11 year old boy Xander was diagnosed about a month ago, on December 11th. His drinking and urinating had increased to a shocking degree incredibly suddenly. I had never really given him any crunch treats before a couple of months ago, but had gotten a free bag of Friskies Party Mix and was giving him a few daily (half or less than the bag "recommended"). At first I thought maybe they'd just made him really thirsty, so I immediately stopped the treats but drinking/urinating stayed crazily high, so at that point I obviously got him to the vet. I would imagine this was going on long beforehand and that the treats just tipped the scale, and I'm sure that makes me look like an idiot.

I apologize for how lengthy this will probably end up being but as is often the case for me I feel like there are extra circumstances that make my situation weird/difficult.

For some background, I'm Brianna. I'm 33 and have had Xander since late 2013. He was probably about 4 months old when I adopted him and he had been feral. He's such a sweet boy, but has always been very sensitive and nervous. In many ways personality-wise he's almost literally just me as a cat. He loves my partner, but I'm definitely his chosen person. I'm disabled so I'm usually home, and we basically spend every second together. If I'm at my desk he's probably laying on it or in his designated chair next to me. If I get up to go to the bathroom or get a drink, he follows. Even so, 11 years down the line I've never been able to "hold" him. Don't get me wrong; he loves to be held, but only if he doesn't think that's what's happening.That usually means laying on my desk in front of me with my arms around him with his face all snuggled up into my chest. (Picture examples: One, two, three) lol Even with me, he gets very nervous if he thinks he's going to be trapped/held somewhere.

He's eaten Science Diet Sensitive Stomach & Skin basically his whole life. After diagnosis, our vet said she didn't want to change his diet and start insulin at the same time, so we were instructed to keep him on that food for now. She also didn't recommend we do any at-home BG testing because of the difference between pet and human trackers, etc. She prescribed 2 units of ProZinc every 12 hours.

When we went back to the vet 6 days after the first visit, to get a demo on how to do injections, he had lost about a pound just in that time (about 12.25 lb down to 11.25) and his BG was 480. :( The first day we were supposed to start injections was the night of December 23rd. I had been reading everything I could (especially the resources here) since diagnosis so I knew the dangers of going too low and was very uncomfortable giving any insulin without knowing if it was safe... and then he also wouldn't eat. He's always been a grazer, but we'd also taken the food away several hours beforehand to make sure he'd eat before the injection. The vet had given us her number to text her over the holiday if we needed her so finally, mid-panic attack, we did. She suggested that we give him a little bit of wet food to entice him, let him continue to graze on the dry food and to just give 1 unit to be safe. We didn't have any wet food, so we skipped that dose and picked some up on Christmas Eve.

So now to ensure he eats something, I give him half of a 3oz can of Fancy Feast Classic Pate before each injection, alongside his dry food (which I let him graze on, but I do measure it out). The next problem was that he's terrified and untrusting of the simplest things, so even going to tent the skin he'd freak out and run. The first several I had to have my partner hold him down for which only made him more afraid. Calling his name or even putting food out for him, he wouldn't come. He's smart and picks up on routine so fast.

He had really liked the Churu treat from the vet, so I started trying to distract him with those while I did it, putting it on a plate for him to lick off. That worked great for a couple of days, he didn't even seem to notice the needle! And then he started jumping away the instant I went for his skin again.

This getting better/getting worse cycle repeated for a while. Having the vet shave some spots on his hips (he can't stand me going for his scruff area, I can only do the flank) helped a lot to be able to see. It's finally going a little better but I have to be so quick about it that I don't have time to do any of the "pull back to see blood" etc, I just have to get it in and inject before he runs. He does flinch and pull away but as soon as the needle is out he goes back to his treat. Afterward he gets unlimited loves and praises until he decides he's done. Even though it's going better now it's so stressful every time and even my hands shake for a good hour afterward. Seems to be more traumatic for me than for him!

A week and a half ago he started to seem particularly lethargic, not interested in food, vomiting some of the time. I was worried about DKA or any number of things, so the vet took him in for the day to give him fluids and keep an eye on him. When he'd been diagnosed his liver "showed signs of inflammation" but she thought it was likely secondary to the diabetes, and after this visit she confirmed that his liver numbers had returned to normal even after a short time on insulin, and that his tests showed that pancreatitis was unlikely. Essentially she said that everything was looking okay but if we wanted to keep investigating we could do an abdominal ultrasound. He seemed to just start to feel better shortly after this so we didn't end up doing that.

A week ago we got a FreeStyle Libre 2 placed. I didn't think there was a chance in hell he'd let it stay on for more than an hour, but especially since he's so hard to even give injections to, I don't feel like we'd have much luck pricking him twice a day and I can't really risk making it impossible to even do the injections because he's learned not to come to me anymore.

As you can probably see from his spreadsheet, his reactions to the insulin are ridiculously inconsistent. At first he'd drop (comparatively) super low, then climb right back up really quickly. I showed this to the vet way earlier than the 72 hours she requested for the curve, asking if maybe it was bouncing or rebound (or whatever) and she said that this wasn't the case because the drop wasn't happening within an hour of injection, and that this just looked like it was a short action insulin for him. She said she'd also talk to a specialist and see what they thought, and that he might just need a different insulin. Since then he's alternated between literally no discernible reaction in BG numbers to one night dropping as low as 98. Nothing between any of these doses has changed in regards to food, treats, dosage, etc. It's like if he reacts to one dose, his body ignores the next one or two. I have no idea what to make of it.

I sent the vet the full 72 hours' worth on Friday afternoon so naturally we haven't heard anything back yet but I'm just so tired of wondering so I was hoping you experienced, wonderful people might have some thoughts.

I know that everyone here says that home testing is vital. I also know that my cat is so sensitive and nervous that capturing him to prick his ear will be insanely difficult and possibly make it impossible to give injections anymore. (On that note, even the vet tech had difficulty getting his ear to bleed.) The Libre just died today (day 7) and is starting to fall off a little. It often had errors and was annoying, but it still seemed at least more doable than manual. I feel like bringing him to the vet to get it placed is more stressful for him than having it on is, but I'm also absolutely not comfortable trying to place it myself. The vet finally answered my question of which pet monitor she'd recommend if I had to use one and she said Alpha Trak, but from what I understand those are crazily more expensive over time than the human ones and also often have errors, which will obviously also add to the cost.

I guess my questions are:

• What on earth do you think is going on with his reactions to injections? Why does he sometimes react so strongly and other times literally not at all? I know a lot of people immediately switch to low-carb wet food but our vet didn't want us to do that. Could that be the whole problem as opposed to needing a different insulin?

• What should we do about testing? I wish the Libre lasted longer because it'd be a no-brainer. I'd also at least like to have the option to test him manually if I need to, but I just don't know what to do. I know that human meters are much cheaper than pet ones, but which one would you recommend as least jarring/possibly painful for a very scared, sensitive cat? Needs less blood, maybe?

• The sensor itself on the Libre has come mostly detached from the adhesive pad, but the pad is still stuck. I'm not sure if I should leave it and let it fall the rest of the way off (the edges are lifted) or ask the vet to take it off. I'm afraid to hurt him (or make him afraid of me).

I'm so stressed nonstop that I feel like I'm going to crack open. I'm crying every day and it's all I think about. I'm chronically ill and it's hard enough to take care of myself, but now I'm taking care of my chronically ill best friend too and there's just nothing left of me for anything else. He is absolutely worth it and I'll do everything I can to make my best buddy healthy and happy again, but I'm just as afraid and sensitive a beast as he is and I feel all alone in this. In one way it's amazing that my vet is willing to text me after hours if I have questions, but in another way I feel thrown out without a life vest and keep feeling like what I'm told is at odds with what I read here, so I'm just... terrified. All the time.

One of the things that has been so hard with this is that he's not a typical cat. Maybe it's because he was feral, but he is so sensitive and suspicious that 99% of the suggestions I've found through all this nonstop reading haven't been things that work for him, aside from distraction with the Churu. I guess I'm hoping to find some people who might not only have experience with FD but with a really specific temperament of kitty too.

Thank you so much if you took the time to read this far. I can't express how much I appreciate it. My entire life for the past month has literally been nothing but researching this and taking care of him, but I'm sorry if any of this sounds stupid/uninformed. I've been writing this for so long that now I'm about to go to bed but I'll be here first thing in the morning and will answer any and all questions you might have.

I wanted to add a few images but don't want them to make the post massive since I can't resize them, so here are some links lol

This is what our version of "being held" is: One, two, three
And here are just a couple cute ones: One, two :)

Edit 1 (1/14 1:27 PM): The vet just emailed me about his curve and said that she spoke with an internist who agreed that the ProZinc is working but has too short a duration for him and that he needs to switch. She's prescribing 2 units of glargine now instead, said that there's no need for a washout; to just switch at the next dose. I also asked her if it would be wise to start the full switch to low carb wet food but haven't gotten a response yet.

Edit 2 (1/14 10:14 PM): Every step forward comes with two steps back, it seems. Tonight he turned around and bit me with the injection. Not hard, no blood drawn, it didn't even hurt. But I know just from knowing him that this will continue. I'm utterly defeated and am stressed to the point of it manifesting physically. In no way do I plan to stop treatment, but I'm struggling with just trying to exist in any capacity aside from this and I'm trying so hard but this just isn't working as is.

My partner and I decided that we'd like to pause insulin (stop ProZinc but not start Lantus yet) just long enough to switch his diet over entirely to the low carb wet food. It shouldn't be a problem because he loves it! But I know it's harder and dangerous to do while also on insulin so we thought it would make sense to do that before starting the new one instead. We plan to get another Libre placed so we can watch his trend with the food change. If we're ridiculously lucky maybe it will be enough to make a difference, and if not at least there will be less to fight against when starting insulin again. I did email my vet tonight to ask if there's anything we should know first, like how long after his last injection it's safe to start this, and if there's any specific way to go about it, but I'd also like to hear what you all think. Since his action time for the ProZinc was so short (hence switching to Lantus), it doesn't seem like it should take long before it was safe. Maybe a day? Two? Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated.

nder's just so insanely sensitive to literally everything that he'd probably react to that too. Although at least for now, with the exception of tickling, he doesn't seem to mind me touching his ears briefly at least.

I really do spend a good majority of my time crying lol :( Yesterday was another especially bad day. Trying to keep telling myself things will get better, but it's hard because history has shown that for us, improvement lasts a day and then we're somehow even worse off than we were.

I believe you need a Vet that has knowledge on Feline Diabetes, ProZinc is a 12 Hour insulin, as Lantus is, Vets are more familiar with dog diabetes , and treat a cat these same
I understand your frustration as much as we all have at one time, I have cried too, What worries me by seeing the SS is that as you continue to give dry food, no matter how small amount even 4 kibbles, will raise the BG, dry food (Kibbles) have between 25-30% carbs, you will continue to see these numbers, the pancreas need healing, produce their own insulin, not that it will happen right away, but cats cannot digest carbs, if and you need to get those numbers down, it will not happen eating high Carbs, and grazing all day, not good, if you take a look again to his SS, scroll to the right in R3marks, you can see how when and how much he is fed,( again this is for you to get an idea that they can almost eat all day and keep the BG low) I believe suggested you see in once before, Corky eats Fancy Feast 3oz can, 1/2 cn per meal, and he is a 16.8 ex large tall and long cat ( not obese), I do not mean to be persistent, but if
Xander is already eating wet food, it's awesome is low car between 0-10% carbs you can make your own feeding schedule feed 3-4-5- meals a day but low carbs. below is a Dr. Food list many brands to choose from, the third column has the % of carb per food, and a link for a Carb calculator, download on your phone so when you shop for his food turn the label to nutrition and calculate, Gravy food id only given when BG is low, so you should have 2-3 cans of that handy, and is given a tsp at a time, test in 1./2 hour if still low repeat process until BG is safe. you are doing awesome and Xander knows it, maybe it was a love bite!:D Before you realize it Xanders BG numbers will start to go down the same day you remove all the carbs, but you need to test often when you decide to do so, to be on the safe site, he's BG might lower but as high as he has it you have time to take control and we are here for you!!:bighug::bighug::bighug::cat::cat: PS: The Forum likes to have the titles no longer the 50 posts, you may want to start a new one, you cant title it
Continuation-Newbie hoping for advice/encouragement! :) and attach this to the new title post!
FOOD CHART CHECK CARBS/ FF
Cat Food Nutrition Calculator | Elizabeth C Scheyder
 
I believe you need a Vet that has knowledge on Feline Diabetes, ProZinc is a 12 Hour insulin, as Lantus is, Vets are more familiar with dog diabetes , and treat a cat these same
I understand your frustration as much as we all have at one time, I have cried too, What worries me by seeing the SS is that as you continue to give dry food, no matter how small amount even 4 kibbles, will raise the BG, dry food (Kibbles) have between 25-30% carbs, you will continue to see these numbers, the pancreas need healing, produce their own insulin, not that it will happen right away, but cats cannot digest carbs, if and you need to get those numbers down, it will not happen eating high Carbs, and grazing all day, not good, if you take a look again to his SS, scroll to the right in R3marks, you can see how when and how much he is fed,( again this is for you to get an idea that they can almost eat all day and keep the BG low) I believe suggested you see in once before, Corky eats Fancy Feast 3oz can, 1/2 cn per meal, and he is a 16.8 ex large tall and long cat ( not obese), I do not mean to be persistent, but if
Xander is already eating wet food, it's awesome is low car between 0-10% carbs you can make your own feeding schedule feed 3-4-5- meals a day but low carbs. below is a Dr. Food list many brands to choose from, the third column has the % of carb per food, and a link for a Carb calculator, download on your phone so when you shop for his food turn the label to nutrition and calculate, Gravy food id only given when BG is low, so you should have 2-3 cans of that handy, and is given a tsp at a time, test in 1./2 hour if still low repeat process until BG is safe. you are doing awesome and Xander knows it, maybe it was a love bite!:D Before you realize it Xanders BG numbers will start to go down the same day you remove all the carbs, but you need to test often when you decide to do so, to be on the safe site, he's BG might lower but as high as he has it you have time to take control and we are here for you!!:bighug::bighug::bighug::cat::cat: PS: The Forum likes to have the titles no longer the 50 posts, you may want to start a new one, you cant title it
Continuation-Newbie hoping for advice/encouragement! :) and attach this to the new title post!
FOOD CHART CHECK CARBS/ FF
Cat Food Nutrition Calculator | Elizabeth C Scheyder

The switch to wet has been going well! He doesn't tend to eat all that much in general so I struggled to get him to eat if I gave too many small meals (even though he loves the food.) Right now I'm giving him 1/2 a can or less prior to his breakfast to mix his Gabapentin into (I have to, so that it can be effective for shot time). Then I give him the other half a can at breakfast before his AM shot. He gets another half can or less around lunchtime, and then for his second Gabapentin dose 2 hours before the PM shot, and finally about half a can for dinner. The dry food is only out for a relatively short period of time (mainly overnight, since I won't be awake to see lows), it's limited and he doesn't eat very much of it. We're just being careful for a little bit since we're also just starting the Lantus, but he is at like 80% wet food right now and I'll be decreasing it more too. Like I said, he doesn't tend to eat much in general, even the food he loves (which is the wet) so I'm just having a safety net.

His SS has actually gotten a lot better than it was on the Prozinc (his average is in the 300s now rather than the 400s, so not great numbers but definitely improving!)

Thank you for the heads up! I'm trying to get a few days in of this new routine but I'll probably end up making another post soonish and I'll put it in the Lantus forum, linking to this post. :)
 
The switch to wet has been going well! He doesn't tend to eat all that much in general so I struggled to get him to eat if I gave too many small meals (even though he loves the food.) Right now I'm giving him 1/2 a can or less prior to his breakfast to mix his Gabapentin into (I have to, so that it can be effective for shot time). Then I give him the other half a can at breakfast before his AM shot. He gets another half can or less around lunchtime, and then for his second Gabapentin dose 2 hours before the PM shot, and finally about half a can for dinner. The dry food is only out for a relatively short period of time (mainly overnight, since I won't be awake to see lows), it's limited and he doesn't eat very much of it. We're just being careful for a little bit since we're also just starting the Lantus, but he is at like 80% wet food right now and I'll be decreasing it more too. Like I said, he doesn't tend to eat much in general, even the food he loves (which is the wet) so I'm just having a safety net.

His SS has actually gotten a lot better than it was on the Prozinc (his average is in the 300s now rather than the 400s, so not great numbers but definitely improving!)

Thank you for the heads up! I'm trying to get a few days in of this new routine but I'll probably end up making another post soonish and I'll put it in the Lantus forum, linking to this post. :)

It's not the insulin that is making the change is the wet can food LC and less carb, both insulin are just as effective and the forum recommends both of them :bighug::bighug::cat::cat:
PS this post can be attached to the new Title to refer to this one
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top