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Laurie_McGee

Laurie_McGee

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My name is Laurie and my 6 year old Siamese/Ragdoll has just been diagnosed with Feline Diabetes. I am unsure of all the specifics as I received the call from my vet a few hours ago. I have an appointment w/ her this afternoon to discuss Max's treatment.
One question I have, do any of you have multiple cats who live in your home yet only one has diabetes? How do you handle feedings? Any advice is greatly appreciated.
 
Laurie_McGee said:
My name is Laurie and my 6 year old Siamese/Ragdoll has just been diagnosed with Feline Diabetes. I am unsure of all the specifics as I received the call from my vet a few hours ago. I have an appointment w/ her this afternoon to discuss Max's treatment.
One question I have, do any of you have multiple cats who live in your home yet only one has diabetes? How do you handle feedings? Any advice is greatly appreciated.
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Most people just try to get all cats on the same species appropriate low carb wet food diet. Most of us also hometest. We can help you with that (even if your vet doesn't suggest hometesting or says "not yet" or "wait till he's regulated" or even "hell no". It's just gathering data.) If your vet tries to start you on a big dose (bigger than 1 unit twice a day) suggest you are uncomfortable and worried about hypoglycemia and you would like to raise slowly. Come back and tell us what happened. If he mentions more than one insulin, lantus is a good choice. Vetsulin is not, even if they have it, as it has been recalled and the company has ceased making insulin right now while they clear up their trouble.
 
Karen gave you some great advice. If possible, change all of the cats' diets to a low carb canned or raw food diet. You do not need special prescription food for a diabetic cat. Most of us feed our cats either Friskies or Fancy Feast. You do want to eliminate dry if possible. Dry food it usually very high in carbs and that will make it difficult to regulate a diabetic cats glucose levels.

Also, do learn to hometest. It will help you regulate your cats diabetes and also help control the vet costs. Don't let your vet try to talk you into buying an "animal" glucose meter. Most of us use human glucose meters and any brand will work. You can get it at any pharmacy or there is also a like for a newbie kit on this site. Cindy will send you a free meter.

Let us know what the vet says. Start reading the info on this site, especially regarding insulin, diet, hometesting and hypoglycemia. Ask us any questions you may have. We are here to help you.
 
Thank you all...I really appreciate your advice and insight. Makes it easier for me. Just got home and here's what we have so far.... She is starting him on Lantus, a very low dose ( 1 unit) twice a day. I have to take him back twice a week until we have him regulated. She highly encouraged the home testing so I am going to look in to monitors. She suggested the Alpha Trak and said it's specific to dogs and cats.
As far as food, she also said that all of them could be on the low carb diet and suggested Fancy Feast. I went ahead and purchased more Purina DM can from her until we decided which brand to get. She said the Purina DM crunchies were fine as well.
Do those of you who have multiple cats feed them twice a day or just leave it out for their grazing? My cats have always just had crunchies at their disposal...
 
Laurie_McGee said:
Thank you all...I really appreciate your advice and insight. Makes it easier for me. Just got home and here's what we have so far.... She is starting him on Lantus, a very low dose ( 1 unit) twice a day. I have to take him back twice a week until we have him regulated. She highly encouraged the home testing so I am going to look in to monitors. She suggested the Alpha Trak and said it's specific to dogs and cats.
As far as food, she also said that all of them could be on the low carb diet and suggested Fancy Feast. I went ahead and purchased more Purina DM can from her until we decided which brand to get. She said the Purina DM crunchies were fine as well.
Do those of you who have multiple cats feed them twice a day or just leave it out for their grazing? My cats have always just had crunchies at their disposal...
Click to expand...


Awesome vet! Way ahead of the curve of most vets we see on here. I leave wet food out, but Pearl is teh only grazer. Some people freeze pucks of it to leave out and thaw to be "fresher".
 
Hi Laurie

just wanted to pop in to say - once u learn to home test - taking ur cat in to the vet twice a week might get a bit expensive, plus not to mention the vet stress kitties feels at the clinics, tends to raise BG numbers and unfortunately, based on that - the dose too in some cases

I'm an avid fan of home testing as are many here, especially testing BG levels before giving insulin.

Also, to let you know - if ur vet didnt mention it - u can actually use any human meter sold at pharmacies.
The Relion is a good choice and an inexpensive choice. Plus so u know, strips for the AlphaTrak meter can be pricey and only available at a vets office and online.
so as u can see, u have many choices for meters.

I have two cats, one is diabetic, now in remission, and they both eat at the same times, and graze thru the day on their yummy low carb wet food! It is do-able but does take a little time to get them into the good habits.

Good luck to you and hopefully we'll see u in the Lantus forum when ur ready. In the meantime - posting here in health will get u plenty of the basics on any info u need
:-D
 
WELCOME, this forum is a great place to gain knowledge and really learn how to manage feline diabetes. By doing just a few things each day (that really won't take up much of your time at all), you won't need to worry about losing your precious cat, not where feline diabetes is concerned.

There are three key factors to managing diabetes: food/nutrition, home testing and insulin

1) Feline Nutrition: Now, as far as diet - definitely dump the dry food (if you are feeding any) and if the vet recommends purchasing prescription food like DM just say "no thank you". ALL cats, and especially those with diabetes, do best on a species appropriate diet that is high in protein and low in carbs. Dry food DOES NOT fit that bill and DM food, even canned, just really isn't that great as far as quality. Most here on FDMB feed low carb/high protein canned, raw bought from a pet store or they make there own.

Here great links, one is to a food chart put together by one of our board members that breaks down the carb % and protein % of most of the commercial brand foods. You want to keep the carb % below 10% and around 7% is great. The other link is to a site by a vet "Dr. Lisa DVM" ... who also posts on this board from time to time ... there is in-depth info. there about many things, including nutrition and how to make raw food.
Nutrition/food info

The good thing with feeding your diabetic cat this way, is that it is ALSO good for any non-diabetic cat too. All your cats can safely eat the same food without worry and it may save you some costs and headaches of having to do separate feedings and keeping track of what they are eating.


2. Home testing: It is impossible to convey the value of testing your cat's BG (blood glucose) level at home. Some vets will "suggest" this, but most won't even mention it. They will send you home with insulin and an amount to shoot and maybe some instructions about hypoglycemia (blood sugar dropping to a dangerously low level).

Well, the thing is, human diabetics don't EVER give themselves insulin without checking there BG to make sure it is safe to do so, so why shouldn't it be the same for our kitties. Here on FDMB it is. You will notice that the vast majority of people here test their cat's BG at least 2x/day (before giving each shot to make sure the level is safe enough) and periodically at other times to see how the cat is responding to the current dose. We use a human glucometer, test strips and lancets - which are all very readily available and easy to use.

Our kitties get lots of love and treats for "putting up" with this and most of them actually come out to be tested on their own 'cause they want those treats . Here is a collection of great links that "Carolyn and Spot" pulled together about hometesting. See what you think ... it truly is the best way to not only keep Your cat safe but also really get a handle on this disease and help him to live a healthy life with FD (feline diabetes).

Home testing Links

3. Insulin: There are several types of insulin available. Many people, myself included use Lantus or Levimer both of which are great insulins. They are gentle insulin and given twice (BID) per day in 12 hour increments.

Please read up on the insulins available, here is a link to the Insulin Support Groups:

Insulin Support Groups

However, one caveat and again this shows how these three things are inter-related:

If you are feeding dry food or even a high carb food, BEFORE removing these foods, please make sure of your insulin dose as it will most likely need to be reduced, so as to avoid a possible hypoglycemic situation due to the removal of the dry/high carb foods that will lower the BG’s and reduce the amount of insulin required. Again, another reason why home testing is important.

I know this all seems like a lot, and that's because it is ... there is a learning curve here. But as long as you are determined and keep at it, you will have it down before you know it and you'll be seeing the results in Your cat' overall health and happiness. Ask all the questions you can think of - that's why we are here!

Also, if you haven't done it yet, take the time and fill out your profile. It will help when others come on and read this. Also, let us know where you live - city/state as there are probably people in your area who can provide on the ground support and help you to learn home testing, etc.
 
Thank you everyone for all of your advice. I really don't know what I would have done without you. Max started his injections yesterday. He has never been a big eater so it's hard to say how his appetite is. His water intake and urine output hasn't changed. I notice that he doesn't seem to be as lethargic as he was last week and I hope that trend continues. We go back tomorrow morning to see the vet so we shall see what happens.
 
Don't spend the mega-bucks for the Alphatrak meter.

Human glucometers work very well for cats, and are much less expensive.

My cat-specialist vet uses a human glucometer in her practice.
 
Max had his first follow up @ 8:00 this morning. His last meal and insulin injection before appointment was 7:00 last night. His BG this morning was 97 and he gained an ounce since Monday! I was stunned. Last night I watched him eat more and play a bit as well. The doctor was very pleased and at the moment we are just going to give him insulin once a day and stay on the diet. I have to go back Monday evening to check BG again. The doctor said if it is still looking good then he may stop the injections and keep an eye on him. What do you all think? Should I be guardedly optimistic?
 
What insulin are you using? Most insulins do need BID (twice a day) injecting not SID (once a day).

Are you home testing?

Did you change his diet?

While it's great his BG is coming down, it's still important to learn to home test - especially when giving insulin and one test doesn't tell you the whole story. You need to at a minimum test before shooting and get random tests in as you are able.

If you could give us some more information, we can assist you better.

And also remember - once diagnosed a diabetic, ALWAYS A diabetic and you must always be aware and able to test.
 
He is on Lantus 1 unit. We changed Max's diet to the Purina DM cat food. I plan to start home testing once I get a gloucometer which will be this weekend. The doctor showed me how to home test by getting blood from his ear.
 
Lantus Folks

Ok, so then what? Did he get another shot? This cat is showing a big duration off of his first shot and I'm concerned that either

a. he's not diabetic
b. he's very sensitive and needs to be closely monitored.

Typically, when first starting out anyways, no shot under 200. Once you really start working with lantus though, that may change as you collect data.

Confused yet?
 
Re: Lantus Folks

Jen & Squeak said:
Ok, so then what? Did he get another shot? This cat is showing a big duration off of his first shot and I'm concerned that either

a. he's not diabetic
b. he's very sensitive and needs to be closely monitored.

Typically, when first starting out anyways, no shot under 200. Once you really start working with lantus though, that may change as you collect data.

Confused yet?
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You know, come to think of it, the Vet didn't test him on Monday before she gave him his first injection. We went in and she gave us the news that his blood work showed ketones and the BG was @ 390 and that was from Friday. I wonder if his BG would have been lower Monday afternoon after being on the new cat food all weekend?

When I came home from the doc this morning, I fed him and gave him his injection.
 
Can you please monitor his behaviour? Giving insulin at 97 is pretty darn dangerous (NOT blaming you) and you need to be alert for signs of hypoglycemia. See this link for Melissa's post viewtopic.php?f=3&t=6632

A fructosamine is a test that shows a rough average of blood glucose levels from the last two weeks; so it is a better test than a one time blood glucose test which may be skewed by stress, etc.That said, the change in food plus possible skewing from stress may all play a role. What food changes did you do

i'm very surprised that your vet sent you home with a 97 and instructions to inject....

Can you monitor?
 
Jen & Squeak said:
Can you please monitor his behaviour? Giving insulin at 97 is pretty darn dangerous (NOT blaming you) and you need to be alert for signs of hypoglycemia. See this link for Melissa's post viewtopic.php?f=3&t=6632

A fructosamine is a test that shows a rough average of blood glucose levels from the last two weeks; so it is a better test than a one time blood glucose test which may be skewed by stress, etc.That said, the change in food plus possible skewing from stress may all play a role. What food changes did you do

i'm very surprised that your vet sent you home with a 97 and instructions to inject....

Can you monitor?
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I changed his food from crunchy generic grocery store brand to Purina DM in a can.

I can't monitor at the moment since I'm at work. But, hubby was home @ 1:00 today and said he was up and around and seemed fine.
 
Welcome Laurie & Max! Just want to throw out there for you that the dosage of 1 unit is NOT the lowest you can go. My cat Morris is currently getting .25u and many are on .10u and something called a fat 0.

I suspect that the starting dose of 1u BID was too high and needs to be reduced. The dosage is not always based on the weight either. Morris was 26 lbs. at one time and 17 lbs when he started Levemir (similar to Lantus).

How was Max diagnosed??? Did the vet do a fructosamine or was it based on one high reading under vet stress???? Your vet sounded good in your first couple of posts but that later post leads me to question her competence. You need to get that meter now...is there a Walmart nearby?? The ReliOn is something like $20 and box of strips another $20.

Sorry, that sounded harsh to me...but I'm worried. nailbite_smile
 
Brenda and Morris said:
Welcome Laurie & Max! Just want to throw out there for you that the dosage of 1 unit is NOT the lowest you can go. My cat Morris is currently getting .25u and many are on .10u and something called a fat 0.

I suspect that the starting dose of 1u BID was too high and needs to be reduced. The dosage is not always based on the weight either. Morris was 26 lbs. at one time and 17 lbs when he started Levemir (similar to Lantus).

How was Max diagnosed??? Did the vet do a fructosamine or was it based on one high reading under vet stress???? Your vet sounded good in your first couple of posts but that later post leads me to question her competence. You need to get that meter now...is there a Walmart nearby?? The ReliOn is something like $20 and box of strips another $20.

Sorry, that sounded harsh to me...but I'm worried. nailbite_smile
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I originally took Max to the vet last Friday because his breath smelled like acetone, he was vomiting and lethargic. She originally did a BG test in the office and also sent his bloodwork to the lab for a complete work-up. His BG on Friday came back @ 370 w/ the office gloucometer and @390 from the lab. The work also showed some Ketones in urine.

ETA: The doctor I saw on Friday and Monday is my regular vet. The doctor I saw today was another one from the practice. I have an appointment Monday evening w/ my regular vet.
 
Ok, so we have to be cautious here with the ketone issue...

ketones usually take a combo of factors to develop; insufficient insulin/insufficient food/infection

So, did your vet talk with you about the ketones, what may have caused them and how to treat them? I'd wonder if he has an infection, was perhaps borderline diabetic and the infection drove up blood glucose levels and bam ketones? Just speculating...

Either way, it is important that he eats, that he gets insulin IF numbers warrant and that you test his urine for ketones every day. Sounds like a lot but majorly important until he's stabilized.

I do agree that you guys need to consider hometesting asap; it is a lot to take in but can save your boy's life.

Jen
 
Quick update here...this weekend I closely monitored Max although I was unable to home test due to a) being scared to stick him and b) not completely comfortable w/ the meter. Thankfully my dear co-worker walked me through it today. I noticed Max wasn't eating as much and drinking more. Took him to the vet just now and his BG was up to 346. This is after eating @ 6:30 this AM and injection @ 7:00. He has gained about 1/2 a pound since Thursday. We are back to 2 injections a day with a follow up on Thursday. I told my vet that I will continue to monitor Max and can hopefully feel comfortable to test at home. She recommends the home testing. ;-)

I suggested that she check out this web site and message board and told her how amazing everyone is. I also recommended that she refer all of her patients who have felines w/ diabetes to come here as well and what a wonderful resource this site is.
 
glad he's feeling better and that you are getting the hang of testing! Can you also please test his urine for ketones? Let us now how things go ok?!

Jen
 
Jen & Squeak said:
glad he's feeling better and that you are getting the hang of testing! Can you also please test his urine for ketones? Let us now how things go ok?!

Jen
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Where can I get the Ketone strips? I thought about that last night w/ I saw Max using his facility ...
 
You can usually get ketone strips at your local pharmacy. You may have to ask the pharmacist since sometimes they are behind the counter. You can also get ketone trips combined with urine glucose strips. They are called Keto-Diastix (Bayer brand).
 
Hi again. Another update. Max went for a check up this afternoon and so far, so good. His BG was 127 and he is up to 13 pounds. The doctor said to continue w/ the diet and a little less than 1 unit insulin 2X per day. She wants us to check his BG over the weekend at different times and call her on Monday to give a report. Hopefully we can continue to regulate his BG w/ the plan we are on. I forgot to pick up the urine strips but will do that over the weekend.

I want to thank each and everyone here who have given their advice. Trust me when I say, you have all been a Godsend.
 
Everyone will tell you to not feed dry. However, there are some cats (and some living situations) that make it very difficult to feed wet food only. As a 4-cat household with one diabetic, I switched everyone to Innova EVO dry, which is 7% carbs, and left the food out all the time.

You don't need the AlphaTrak meter--the easiest one I found is the Relion Micro (from Walmart), which only requires a little tiny bit of blood. I also bought the Aviva Accucheck, but just so that I could get the Aviva lancet pen (much easier than a freehand lancet). I've compared my Relion to the results that my vet gets, and the error is only about 10-15%, which is good enough for home testing.

Home testing is really hard the first few times, but as you try to regulate your cat, it becomes worth it and you'll be glad that you have the option. You'll find it especially valuable if your cat ever gets into a hypoglycemic state. Can you find someone in your area to help you the first time you test? I was lucky enough to find someone on this board to hold my hand, and that gave me the confidence I needed to do it.
 
Jen & Squeak said:
Ummm.... how long after his shot was he 127? Are you going to get preshot tests? Hope so and hope you post if you can :-D
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It was 10.5 hours later. And we are going to test preshot as well.
 
SarahFL said:
Everyone will tell you to not feed dry. However, there are some cats (and some living situations) that make it very difficult to feed wet food only. As a 4-cat household with one diabetic, I switched everyone to Innova EVO dry, which is 7% carbs, and left the food out all the time.

You don't need the AlphaTrak meter--the easiest one I found is the Relion Micro (from Walmart), which only requires a little tiny bit of blood. I also bought the Aviva Accucheck, but just so that I could get the Aviva lancet pen (much easier than a freehand lancet). I've compared my Relion to the results that my vet gets, and the error is only about 10-15%, which is good enough for home testing.

Home testing is really hard the first few times, but as you try to regulate your cat, it becomes worth it and you'll be glad that you have the option. You'll find it especially valuable if your cat ever gets into a hypoglycemic state. Can you find someone in your area to help you the first time you test? I was lucky enough to find someone on this board to hold my hand, and that gave me the confidence I needed to do it.
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Thanks! I'll have to look at the Innova Evo food.
My husband is going to assist w/ the blood checks. Years ago he volunteered @ a vet's office and also studied to be a vet tech. He has never done a blood draw on a cat but he probably wouldn't worry so much about hurting Max as much as I would.
 
Jen & Squeak said:
Just remember, it ISN"T a blood draw, you are poking the ear capillarie. HUGE difference!
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OOPS...sorry about that. I meant poke. Still learning terminology. :oops:
Did our first one this evening @ 11 hours post injection. His BG was 103. Hubby was a saint. We warmed the rice ball we received in our starter kit and used it to warm his ear. He poked his ear and I held the gloucometer. I forgot to give him treats right after but gave him dinner. I hope this becomes as easy as the injections are.
 
Jen & Squeak said:
Hold on!

If he was 103 at +11, what did you do at shot time? Please tell me you didn't inject...
Click to expand...

I did. I gave him a little less than 1 unit about an hour after he ate. I doubled checked w/ my vet about it and she said since he is receiving such a low amount he should be OK and to watch him. I monitored him closely last night and his behavior was normal. I didn't test again because the first one stressed everyone out. This morning he has alert and normal. Will be checking his bg little later today though.
 
1 unit is not a small amount...and 103 is a non diabetic number. Some people shoot at very low numbers but only when they know how their cat responds. With yours I really question the safety. Obviously it worked out ok but please, I would consider a higher no shoot number......
 
I am back and quite frustrated. We are having the worst time trying to home test. The first time we did it, only had a bit of problems finding the vein in the ear. Once we used the flashlight we found it but had some difficulty getting blood to come out but once it did, success. Last night we decided to try the rear paw pad since I read here that some have gone that route. We had to poke 3 different times and went through 3 strips without any luck. We kept getting test strip error messages and were able to tell it was because we weren't getting the blood on correctly. We gave up after the third try. Tonight we tried the rear paw pad again with no luck. So we tried the ear, again without any success. After the third try we stopped. We are following the instructions sent with the heated rice sock, for better circulation and still nothing. :sad:
The meter we have is the One touch, ultra mini.

Any advice?
 
We spent a whole weekend poking poor Oliver. It does take a while to get the hang of it. But promise, pretty soon it will be second nature.

Try the flashlight again, Laurie. This time when you see the right spot, put a dab of vaseline there. It will help you poke in the right place when you are ready, and will make the blood bead up. Are you sure heating the ear long enough? At the beginning, it does take a while. It's like the ear learns to bleed.

What size lancets are you using? Sometimes the ultra thin ones are too thin.

Be sure to give a treat, whether successful or not. Don't give up. It'll work!
 
You just keep trying. (Not all at once! I set my limit at three pokes. Then I'd wait quite a while before trying again). You might have to make the sock just a bit warmer and hold it a bit longer. (Check it against your ear! You don't want it hot, just quite warm.) I counted to 20. Also, test yourself. It gives you an idea of how much pressure to use. It's surprisingly firm. It's not a LONG amount of pressure but a short burst. I also have much better luck as near the edge of the ear as you can get. Don't try for the vein. You'll get it eventually. It's ok.
 
Well, one idea...

I poke the inner thicker edge of the ear, not the thinner feathery outer edge...I also make sure that I have a very thin coat of vaseline on Squeak's ear so that the blood beads up nicely and doesn't disperse into his fur.

Did you ever post your location? Ah yes, Orlando....

Jen
 
The testing does get easier - the first few times are awful. I've also found that the thinner lancets don't work as well for us (takes me too many tries) but the 30 gauge ones at 45 degree angle work like a charm. Keep at it! Your BG tests are the best information you can have right now.
 
After a visit to the vet who walked us through an ear poke, we have been successful the last 4 nights. I have been testing him @ 2 hours after dinner and his glucose has been between the 70's and 90's. Saturday night we tested him before dinner and it was @ 87 and then again 2 hours post and it was still in the 80's. So, we are keeping a close eye on him and only doing one injection of just under 1 unit of Lantus @ 7:00 in the morning.
 
Congrats!!!

BUt what is he at when you are injecting? how low is he going 6 hours after shot? Those numbers are quite low, I'm concerned about injecting at all!

Jen
 
Jen & Squeak said:
Congrats!!!

BUt what is he at when you are injecting? how low is he going 6 hours after shot? Those numbers are quite low, I'm concerned about injecting at all!

Jen
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We have only been testing at night. We will check tomorrow before shot and also @ 6 hours and let you know.
 
Wow. I'm guessing that dinner is about 12 hours after AM insulin? If so, and his blood sugar is in the 70s and 80s AFTER dinner, you may not be giving insulin for much longer. He could be going very low during the day and you've just missed it! Definitely get that +6 tomorrow. You might be surprised at the number. :-D
 
Holly and Pablo said:
Wow. I'm guessing that dinner is about 12 hours after AM insulin? If so, and his blood sugar is in the 70s and 80s AFTER dinner, you may not be giving insulin for much longer. He could be going very low during the day and you've just missed it! Definitely get that +6 tomorrow. You might be surprised at the number. :-D
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I was!! We tested him at 6 hours after AM injection. His BG was only 80. We have only been giving him one injection a day and testing periodically. His BG has remained under 100 post shot. He is eating well and actually playing. This is a cat who never played much before and we always thought he was lazy. After reading articles on the diabetes, I imagine he has been fighting it for a while. I was stunned to see him batting around a hair tie and trying to catch it in the air.

Question, can anyone direct me to the recipies for home made food? I have looked and can't find them. He is still eatcing the purina DM and loves it. But, my pocketbook doesn't. :cry:
 
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