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lozza12

Member Since 2023
Hiya
Our Turkish rescue boy Diamaris was newly diagnosed with Diabetes on 5th December 2022. We are in Glasgow Scotland.
Diamaris is roughly 12-14years old. We first noticed that he was drinking a lot of water and urinating a lot. Go to vet 05/12 his weight then was 7.5kg, one week later he was down to 7.2kg. Leave with Libreview monitor fitted, and initial 2 units of Caninsulin. Very little advise on diet, as we have a multicat household told not to change his food, but then sold me Royal canin diabetic dry food.
10 days or so later back to vet and he is down to 5.5kg, i was very concerned, but vet was not. Said that she would expect this. Libreview fell off after 5 days, 2nd one lasted 24hrs.
At next appt Fructosamine blood level still sitting at around 500, advised Caninsulin put up to 3 units.
I'm very worried at his weight loss, would we not have expected this when we did not know he was unwell and not when he was diagnosed and after 2 weeks on insulin.
i have ordered a Gluco Navi human blood monitor, and plan to change food to low carb and eliminate dry food from diet. But as all our cats eat both wet and dry, during the transition, can someone recommend a Low carb dry food to use in the short term.
I haven't started taking BS readings yet, as i go on holiday next week and haven't changed his wet food yet. But i have completed the details on his Signature and followed the instructions, can someone tell me if i have done this properly.
Also can i leave frozen wet food out during the day and night for him and my other cats to eat, given we are looking to eliminate all dry food. I was led to beleive by my vet that he should only be fed 2x day, 12 hours apart, but with other cats, and Diamaris loves his food, im not sure how i do this
Thankyou to all who reply
Laura
 
That’s likely why he lost weight and the major food issue right now. Feeding a cat twice a day only is old fashioned advice. It sounds like your vet is more familiar with diabetic dogs than cats since eating twice a day only works for dogs but not for cats who are mainly grazers. It’s also easier on their pancreas if they eat more times a day. Most of us feed the big meals around shot time and then smaller meals throughout the day. And he prescribed Vetsulin which is also called caninsulin since it was developed for dogs. I’d start feeding him more frequently and honestly as much as he wants at this point. Unregulated diabetic cats can’t process the nutrients in food efficiently so they eat and are still hungry and continue to lose weight. They also burn calories just by peeing since there’s sugar in their urine. They need to eat more than a regular cat so please start feeding him more right away.

it’s great that you want to transition to a low carb diet but please don’t do that until you’re able to home test as his bg numbers can drop significantly, as much as 100 points, and Vetsulin is a very harsh insulin. It also doesn’t work a full 12 hours so he’s not protected the entire 24 hours. I know in Europe it seems to be harder to get other insulins prescribed, but you should really ask your vet about switching to Lantus or prozync which are gentler, longer acting and much better for cats. With Vetsulin, you need to make sure he has food onboard at least an hour before you give him the shot as it hits fast and hard. The last thing I want to mention is that you don’t need a fructosamine test at every checkup. It’s useful to diagnose the diabetes since it gives you a 3 week average but after that it’s not necessary especially if you’re going to be monitoring at home by home testing. It’s an expensive test so save your money.

I can’t speak for the food available there, but we have members from all over the world and I’m sure someone in Europe will respond soon! You want to look for foods that are 10% or less carbs
 
The spreadsheet looks right to me, but we need a bit more info on your signature, like date of diagnosis, insulin your using, food your feeding, and any other health conditions he may have. Take a look at mine and also here’s a bit more info in general for you (copied from another member’s post :cat:):

Your instincts are correct. Unfortunately most vets do not know a lot about feline diabetes….they have many animals to look after and they all have different diseases and treatments. Vets also get their information about nutrition from the big cat food manufacturers so they are biased in what they recommend. A dry high carb diet is not good for any cat, especially a diabetic cat. That’s like feeding your diabetic child a diet of biscuits, ice cream and sweets.

With a diabetic cat you need

  • A low carb wet diet that is 10% carbs or under. Most of us use around 4-7% carbs
  • A suitable insulin such as Lantus or Prozinc which are long acting, more gentle insulins than the old insulins.
  • We recommend hometesting the blood glucose with a human meter…it is not necessary to use a pet meter which is expensive to run and is no better. It will keep your kitty safe and you will know how the dose is working for your kitty. Only testing every so often will not tell you what is happening in between those times and an awful lot can happen in even a day.
  • HELP US HELP YOU has information about the spreadsheet, signature and hypo box which you will need to be able to look after your beloved kitty properly
 
Ale & Minnie (GA) said:
That’s likely why he lost weight and the major food issue right now. Feeding a cat twice a day only is old fashioned advice. It sounds like your vet is more familiar with diabetic dogs than cats since eating twice a day only works for dogs but not for cats who are mainly grazers. It’s also easier on their pancreas if they eat more times a day. Most of us feed the big meals around shot time and then smaller meals throughout the day. And he prescribed Vetsulin which is also called caninsulin since it was developed for dogs. I’d start feeding him more frequently and honestly as much as he wants at this point. Unregulated diabetic cats can’t process the nutrients in food efficiently so they eat and are still hungry and continue to lose weight. They also burn calories just by peeing since there’s sugar in their urine. They need to eat more than a regular cat so please start feeding him more right away.

it’s great that you want to transition to a low carb diet but please don’t do that until you’re able to home test as his bg numbers can drop significantly, as much as 100 points, and Vetsulin is a very harsh insulin. It also doesn’t work a full 12 hours so he’s not protected the entire 24 hours. I know in Europe it seems to be harder to get other insulins prescribed, but you should really ask your vet about switching to Lantus or prozync which are gentler, longer acting and much better for cats. With Vetsulin, you need to make sure he has food onboard at least an hour before you give him the shot as it hits fast and hard. The last thing I want to mention is that you don’t need a fructosamine test at every checkup. It’s useful to diagnose the diabetes since it gives you a 3 week average but after that it’s not necessary especially if you’re going to be monitoring at home by home testing. It’s an expensive test so save your money.

I can’t speak for the food available there, but we have members from all over the world and I’m sure someone in Europe will respond soon! You want to look for foods that are 10% or less carbs
Click to expand...
Hi Minnie
Thanks for your reply. In regards to feeding him 2 main meals and some smaller at any time in between should they be his regular cat food, which is not particularly low carb, just until I start to integrate his low carb food and start home testing. Funnily enough this is our vets first diabetic cat, she has worked with ots of diabetic dogs. I will certainly ask about changing his insulin, as I have heard that Cani sulin does not work particularly well sometimes in cats.
I thought by feeding him more it wud send his BS rising too much? As I thought I was only to feed him am and pm with dry food pit for grazing, but I understand now from wot u have explained that it is alright to do this.
 
UK food list here:
I believe that there is an insulin step system in the UK. First Vetsulin and if that doesn't work then Prozinc, then Lantus. (In all honesty, your vet knows very little about feline diabetes – it might be worth trying to find a new vet at some point.)
I'm tagging @Elizabeth and Bertie (UK) for more information about this.
 
Food sends the bg up but he’s getting insulin to counter that and once in a low carb diet, it won’t really send the bg way way up. Anyway, he needs to eat so that’s the 1st priority right now so he won’t keep losing weight because then he could be at risk of developing dka. Yes, you can do the same food just smaller amounts and/or treats. I used to do that with Minnie. 1/2 a can of Fancy Feast at shot time then 1/4 about 2-3 hours after. I also gave her low carb treats. Freeze dried treats are great. She’d also get some baby food with her probiotics. Some folks here will feed baked chicken and/or turkey. Tuna every once in a while is okay too.

as Red said, you may want to look for a vet more experienced with feline diabetes. However, if your vet admits not knowing a ton about it and is willing to work with you instead of pushing back, that would be the best scenario. I would ask him about the other insulins and see what kind of response you get
 
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Red & Rover (GA) said:
UK food list here:
I believe that there is an insulin step system in the UK. First Vetsulin and if that doesn't work then Prozinc, then Lantus. (In all honesty, your vet knows very little about feline diabetes – it might be worth trying to find a new vet at some point.)
I'm tagging @Elizabeth and Bertie (UK) for more information about this.
Click to expand...
Thankyou, yes your right, our vet has worked with a few Diabetic dogs, Diamaris is her first cat. We wer clueless at first but now I'm like a sponge soaking up all the info on here. Thankyou
 
Red & Rover (GA) said:
UK food list here:
I believe that there is an insulin step system in the UK. First Vetsulin and if that doesn't work then Prozinc, then Lantus. (In all honesty, your vet knows very little about feline diabetes – it might be worth trying to find a new vet at some point.)
I'm tagging @Elizabeth and Bertie (UK) for more information about this.
Click to expand...
Thanks red, yes our vet is inexperienced with feline diabetes, but has nursed Diabetic dogs. Diamarisnis her first cat
 
Ale & Minnie (GA) said:
Food sends the bg up but he’s getting insulin to counter that and once in a low carb diet, it won’t really send the bg way way up. Anyway, he needs to eat so that’s the 1st priority right now so he won’t keep losing weight because then he could be at risk of developing dka. Yes, you can do the same food just smaller amounts and/or treats. I used to do that with Minnie. 1/2 a can of Fancy Feast at shot time then 1/4 about 2-3 hours after. I also gave her low carb treats. Freeze dried treats are great. She’d also get some baby food with her probiotics. Some folks here will feed baked chicken and/or turkey. Tuna every once in a while is okay too.

as Red said, you may want to look for a vet more experienced with feline diabetes. However, if your vet admits not knowing a ton about it and is willing to work with you instead of pushing back, that would be the best scenario. I would ask him about the other insulins and see what kind of response you get
Click to expand...
Hiya yes I will ask for the insulin to be changed. Are the ither insulins that u mentioned able to be used with u40 needles?
 
Welcome to FDMB!

I believe that in the UK, Prozinc is available. The other insulin that may be available is glargine (Lantus). Prozinc uses the same syringes as Caninsulin whereas with Lantus (or a generic/biosimilar of glargine) you will need U100 syringes.

Please proceed very carefully if you are planning on transitioning your cat to a low carb diet. 3u of Caninsulin is a substantial dose of insulin especially given how fast and hard it can drop numbers. In all likelihood, the higher carb food is bolstering your cat's numbers and keeping him out of dangerous numbers. (Cats have a much faster metabolism than dogs and this is going to be new territory for your vet.) Once you're home testing, you will be able to monitor how your cat's numbers are influenced by both insulin and a low carb diet. You may want to share the guidelines from the American Animal Hospital Assn for the treatment of diabetes in both dogs and cats. the AAHA no longer recommends Caninsulin/Vetsulin for treating feline diabetes.
 
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