Newbie help please - adjusting Lantus dose

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Obiesmom

Member Since 2014
First, introductions. Our 7 year old kitty, Obie, was diagnosed with diabetes this month, after losing a fair bit of weight in the last year or so. We just had our other kitty put down in August after living with kidney disease for over two years, so it's kind of tough to have our other kitty diagnosed with another chronic disease.

Our vet started Obie on 1 unit of Lantus twice a day. We did a curve at home about a week later, and found that his highest BG was over 500, and his lowest was 312. No real change in his behavior. None of his spot BG checks ever below 300. Vet recommended we increase his dose to 2 units twice a day which we did a week ago. We weren't checking his BG before giving his insulin (1st mistake, I know now). We did get one BG on Tuesday about 6 hours after his insulin that was 171, so I was happy. Wednesday after Obie ate supper and I gave his insulin, I thought I'd check his BG, and it was 117. Checked it again in the evening and it got as low as 50, although he wasn't symptomatic. I got pretty nervous and gave him 1/2 can of high carb cat food (24% carb). Yesterday morning his BG was over 600(!), so we gave him 2 units. Talked to the vet, who said to hold the insulin if his BG was below 180 and to do another curve. We aren't around to do one until Sunday, but last night his BG was 57, 44 on recheck, so we held the insulin. BG 241 at bedtime. This morning his BG was over 600 again. We gave him 1.5 units, on the presumption that he would just bottom out again if we gave the full dose. At supper BG was 117, so we gave 1/2 unit because I didn't want him to be over 600 again in the morning. However, I'm not very comfortable adjusting his dose myself.

My questions are: should I just keep going with the vet's recommendation of 2 units twice a day, hold if BG below 180? Should I go with a lower dose of insulin and if so, what dose? This is so confusing (and I'm a nurse!)

(Further info: Obie weighs between 7 and 8 lbs, we are feeding a mixture of 9lives tuna flakes( about 2% carb IIRC) and science diet tuna in gravy (about 24% carb). We test with the Relion Micro, which I know gives lower readings than the Alphatrak. Obie does seem to be gaining some much-needed weight since we increased his insulin dose, and he doesn't seem as ravenously hungry and thirsty.)
 
Its great you're home testing! You don't want the glucose to go lower than 50 mg/dL on a human glucometer. The nadir (lowest glucose between shots) for Lantus in cats is roughly +5 to +7 hours after the shot. We do it as +# hours because the forum is international and interpretation and action varies depending on when you get the number. See my signature link Glucometer Notes for some info on meters and test value ranges.

Lantus takes about 5 to 7 days on the first dose level, then 3 - 5 days on any later level to stabilize due to carryover effects in cats. It crystalizes under the skin, then the crystals slowly dissolve to take effect. Some haven't dissolved by the next shot 12 hours latern we call that the depot.

We typically suggest dose adjustments in the 0.25 to 0.5 unit range so you don't by-pass a good dose. You have to eyeball 0.25 and 0.75 unit increments as no OTC syringes measure that finely. (Glass research syringes may, but require autoclaving for re-use!) You may find that 1.5 units is a bit better of a dose for now, until you get the testing, feeding, and shooting where you want it.

We suggest feeding under 10% calories from carbohydrates. Cat Info, written by Dr Lisa Pierson discusses feline nutrition and has a nutrition list for a good number of USA/North American foods. If you reduce the carb level, you'll need to reduce the insulin, too. Testing will help you see how much.
 
Hi and welcome. I suggest you come on over to the lantus tight regulation forum and read the stickies on dosing as well as how to handle low numbers. There are really knowledgeable people there that can help you with dosing. We use a combo of low carb, middle carb, and high carb food depending on the BG and at what point you are in the cycle. Newbies don't shoot under 200 at first but once you have enough info we shoot anything over 50. If you start a google spreadsheet you will have lots of eyes looking at your numbers and helping to guide you. Lantus dosing is based upon the nadir rather than the am/pm pre-shots. I use the same meter as you do and it's usually at lest 20% lower than the vet one but the strips are so much cheaper and I go through a lot of them.

Elise
 
Hi

I am a newbie so can't advise on much but just wanted to say well done on the blood glucose testing. I test before each shot and then try and get at least one more in on each cycle even if it is just +1 or +2 as even this data can tell you where you cat is heading. The spreadsheet we use here is a really great visual tool so that we can track progress and let other members know how out cats are doing. Here is a link to setting one up if you want to:

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=18207

With lantus the aim is to give a consistent dose, so if the 2units means that you can't sometimes shoot Obie because he has gone too low when it time to shoot again then I think the experienced members will tell you it might be too high (again I am a newbie so I could well be wrong :smile: ). Having to skip the next shot means Obie blood glucose shoes back up.

have you looked at the various stickies on the forum. There is a great one of dealing with hypos and low numbers. I have that printed out and great ones about lantus on the tight regulation board.

Best wishes

Sarah
 
Tight Regulation Protocol here. See what you think and ask questions.

Tight Regulation forum here. Have a browse to see how others are implementing TR.
 
Hi,
I just wanted to welcome you and Obie to FDMB.

You are at the right place! I'm a "newbie" and my grandkitty is on ProZinc so can't really help with dosage questions but I will say that going to one of the Lantus support groups will help a lot! I am involved in the ProZinc support group and the people are a God send! My vet is so busy, as most, so it's nice to be able to get feed back from people who have or are in the same boat as me.

I think you'll see a difference in Obie's numbers when you have him on strictly low carb wet food. The high carb food can really shoot the BG numbers high. Good luck and hang in there.

Kimmie
 
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