Newbie has some dumb but sincere questions

Status
Not open for further replies.
P

Puddles' Person

Member Since 2014
My 8-year old kitty Donut was started on BCP (bovine) PZI today, just a half-unit to start which probably will need to be increased. I know this varies greatly and is a dumb question but how soon can we expect to see any lowering of her BG? Her BG before the shot was 318. I've tested her so far at +1 and +3 and there has been no real movement. I plan to test her again at +6 and several times tomorrow and for the next few days. I have read that PZI is a slow-acting and gentle insulin, so don't want to have ridiculous expectations but would like to know a little about what to expect. She has recently had pancreatitis and I'm not sure (nor is vet) whether she is actually over it. Until a cat is under good BG control, will they continue to lose weight? She doesn't eat, drink or pee to excess so I'm confused about that as I read those are "classic" diabetes symptoms. How often should I be testing her during these first few day? Also, does a cat ever have "side effects" from insulin? I am really stressing about my lack of knowledge and don't know what I'd do without the advice on this board. Thank you so much for any and all suggestions and sorry if my questions seem naïve. :oops:

Molly and Donut
 
Hi Molly and extra sweet Donut! Welcome to FDMB!

PZI is a good insulin. Most people see a change in numbers after +3 since food starts to wear off. Lowest point (which we call nadir) is usually between +5 and +7. However, remember ECID (every cat is different). Some cats nadir at +4, some at +9...just depends. Some cats take a few days to settle in to insulin, some don't. You'll learn your cats habits soon.

As for testing, we always test before AM and PM shot to make sure the number isn't too low to shoot. We recommend not shooting under 200 when you're new. The order is test, feed, and shoot in about 15 minutes. If the number is under 200, wait about 20 minutes without feeding and retest.

We also test at nadir if possible. Since you can't be sure where Donuts nadir is, it's good to test between +5 and +7. Then a test before bed to see where she is going at night.

A curve (testing every 2 hours or so) is very valuable when you can. I used to try to get one every week until I figured out Gypsy's patterns.

Side effects are rare. They could happen but it's not likely.

Don't wirry about questions! It's overwhelming and lots of info at first. We've all been new and had the same questions. Ask all you want. We want to help!
 
Welcome to fdmb,

In my opinion no question is a dumb question when it comes to feline diabetes. That's how you gain knowledge. Hidey's bg would start dropping around +4 and took awhile to get regulated, but every cat is different like you said not to mention Hidey was put on vetsulin at first and that did nothing then he was put on prozinc. What are you feeding at the moment? Also could the diagnosis be from the pancreatitis? Stress and illness will raise bg. As to testing, at LEAST before every shot. I was testing Hidey several times a day until he got regulated though, when my schedule allowed it.
 
PZI is different from Lantus in that you don't have to wait for it to accumulate and it should go to work immediately at lowering the numbers. I'm not as familiar with this insulin since I've never used it, but I'll attempt to answer some of your questions as best as I can.

First, there's this fantastic ProZinc/PZI Primer that one of our members (Sue and Oliver) wrote up that should give you an idea of how it works and when to increase the dose.

As to not showing "classic symptoms" of diabetes, ECID! (Every Cat Is Different) You guys also might have caught it early enough before the symptoms really had a chance to present themselves. I wouldn't worry about that too much because the BG numbers alone show she needs insulin. Is she still losing weight? How much weight has she lost? You can also feed her a bit more food if you think that will help, but yes, weight gain usually occurs as the numbers start evening out and start coming down again.

Insulin side-effects: I know for certain that Lantus causes side-effects in some kitties because Michelangelo was one of those kitties. He's also not the only one; there are a few other cats on this board that had bad reactions while on Lantus and/or were impossible to regulate until switching insulin. As to the other insulins, Mikey is doing just fine right now on Levemir with no noticeable side-effects and I can't really recall hearing of any cats that had issues with any of the other insulins.

How often should you test her? Around here, you don't really want to ask that question because a lot of us are data junkies so pretty much as often as you can. :lol:

We were all once where you're at now; that's why we're here offering support to those newly diagnosed! We know how confusing and overwhelming the first few weeks (and even months) can be. :YMHUG: It's like taking a college level crash course in feline diabetes! Feel free to ask for clarification or for us to repeat ourselves. The only bad question is the one that goes unasked.
 
Hi Rachel,
Thank you for so much really good information and especially for helping me not to feel like a moron with my questions ;-) With Donut currently being treated for an infection (high WBCs and neutrophils) and her pancreatitis, it's hard to know what to blame for her weight loss and lethargy. But we're sure hoping that we're on the right track with the new PZI. I wondered if insulin was something that had to "build up" in the kitty's system or whether it's an instant response kind of thing. I plan to test her every 2 hours (poor thing--she hates to see me coming) over the weekend and see if there is any downward movement of her BG before talking to the vet on Monday. Thanks so much for your help!

Molly and Donut
 
Hi dirtybirdsoaps,
Thank you so much for your reply. Yes, the vet and I have both wondered if her pancreatitis has affected her BG and he thinks it has. Plus, she also had really high liver numbers and after some antibiotics they have returned to normal. She had abdominal surgery last month to biopsy her colon as she had had IBD for years. I'm convinced that the Royal Canin high-fiber (and HIGH CARB I know now) food that the previous vet put her on probably caused her diabetes. She has been eating low carb canned ever since the day of diagnosis. I wish I had been smarter sooner, I might have spared her all this misery. I'm going to test Donut (much as she hates it) before each shot and several times a day until I see a pattern start to form. And thanks for saying no question is a dumb question because I have to admit I really feel like I don't even know the basics yet and I want to make sure my ignorance doesn't harm Donut because I'm too embarrassed to ask :oops:

Molly and Donut
 
Hi KPassa,
Thanks so much for the link to the ProZinc/PZI Primer. I just went and read through it and it is a wonderful help. It clarifies so many things. I'm so glad you sent it.
In the past two months Donut lost 2 pounds, and during that time she also had a liver infection and pancreatitis, plus abdominal surgery for biopsies which it has taken her a long time to rebound from. And the capper was the discovery of diabetes. I know her well and know how extremely stressed she has been by all her time in the hospital and then the multiple vet visits. During her recovery after the surgery I hand-fed her for about 2 weeks before she started eating on her own. She is still on antibiotics for infection but I'm making sure she gets enough to eat so I assume it's her sugar being too high that is the problem now. So I'm very anxious to see if the PZI works quickly. Donut is one of those cats who couldn't tolerate Lantus. Even the smallest dose made her very ill and didn't help her BG numbers at all. After several weeks of a Lantus trial with the same bad response, both the vet and I finally said "enough!" Fingers crossed for the PZI. I hate worse than anything poking her all the time but know it is necessary at this point. Does it usually take many weeks to get a cat regulated? I keep trying to remember ECID :smile:
Thanks so much--I am so grateful for your advice and the link.

Molly and Donut
 
Antibiotics as pills, liquids, or injectables?

Just a note: Liquids, if originally developed for humans, may have a sweetend base syrup to mask the flavor.
 
Hi BJM,
This was an injectable, Convenia, given by the fill-in vet without consulting me and I found out about it after the fact. If it had been my regular vet it wouldn't have happened I'm sure. I have read some scary things about Convenia's safety record so now have that to worry about. Like Donut needs any more problems. But thanks for the heads-up about possible sweeteners, I honestly never thought of that.

Molly
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top