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Rex_Rescue_Momma

Rex_Rescue_Momma

Member Since 2014
I just joined because after the loss of my last Devon, I am rescuing 2, 9 year old brother Devon Rex cats from a home in California that's unable to care for them any longer. Their names are Max and Dax. Dax is diabetic, and the owner is just overwhelmed with his care. I was a vet tech for 11 years, so I'm pretty familiar with the disease, but have never had a diabetic cat of my own before, so I know all my knowledge is going to go out the window and I need to start from scratch LOL

Would love opinions on diet, right now they're getting canned Friskies - I plan to put them on a higher quality diet. I know canned food is better then dry food for cats, and these two are use to being fed on a schedule so that makes that a lot easier. I would like to go to raw with them - Is that a good idea with a diabetic? Dax is currently getting insulin twice a day. I'm very excited to be able to offer these boys the home they deserve, I've been very lost without a cat in my home!!!!

I am also owned by 2 Standard poodles and an Italian Greyhound, and my roommate has a cat that's the same age as the boys I'm rescuing named Sammy.

I will upload photos when I figure out how LOL
 
Hello,

Welcome to the board. Bless you for taking on the two kitties that someone else was not able to care for. Many people here feed Friskies, the pate styles or Fancy Feast pate styles as they are low carb which is best for the diabetic kitty. Somewhere on here is a preferred food list by for the life of me I can`t find it right now. Maybe someone else will post it for you.
Sounds like you are on the right track with everything. If you have questions that's what we are here for. Edit: I used to work with a lady that had Devon`s they are so cute.

Terri
 
Hopefully someone can post the recommended foods for me, want to do the best for my new boy :)

Also, I'm not exactly sure what supplies he is coming with - But if he doesn't come with one I know I'm going to need to go purchase a glucose monitor - What is the best one to purchase? Ideally how often should I be monitoring his blood sugar?
 
Welcome extra sweet Dax, Max and MamaBean! THANK YOU for rescuing them!!!

You've already got a big obstacle whipped - no dry food! Friskies pate's truly is just fine and is a good low carb food. Many of us feed the Friskies pate's and Fancy Feast 'Classics'. The gravy foods are too high in carbs but if you stay with the pate's, it great! After you learn how Dax reacts to everything, I suggest that you do try a few other 'favorites' to see if Dax can eat them. KT LOVES Friskies Chicken Prime Fillets in Gravy...for some reason, that doesn't spike him so I can feed his 'gravy' habit. Fancy Feast Beef flavors are low carb but NOT for KT - beef WILL spike him.

Testing - most of us use regular human meters - MY favorite (and quite commonly used here) is Walmart's 'ReliOn' either 'Confirm' or 'Micro'. They also have the 'Prime' and 'Ultima' meters. The Prime is the newer one, strips are cheaper but some have had issues with it while others haven't. The Ultima is being phased out. Your vet will QUICKLY tell you they're not calibrated for pets - nope, they're not but we're watching trends and safe cycles - human meters work just fine. The vet may push you to buy an 'Alphatrak II' pet meter - meter is expensive, strips are expensive AND you're hostage to when they're open and when they have them in stock.

Insulins - what kind of insulin is Dax on?

Again, WELCOME! We would love to be able to call YOU by name too.... :)
 
Need to create a signature LOL My name is Lydia. Walmart is just across the street, so a Walmart meter would be very convenient.

I just asked about what type of insulin he is currently on, I know he gets injections twice a day, but am not sure the type of insulin. Just bombarded the lady giving these boys up with a million questions LOL She should respond sometime today and I'll be able to answer that.
 
Welcome to the FDMB! You are in the right place and will be well supported. I find it interesting that you were a vet tech. One would think you would know what to do. That truly shows how much vets need to be updated when it comes to FD. The people here are so helpful and the best in the world as far as I'm concerned. Anyway, I too have experience in diabetes. My daughter was diagnosed when she was 7. (She is 34 now.) I also take of a gentleman with type 1 diabetes and have brought him to better control. This being said, I was panicked when I found out that my fur baby had diabetes! I knew that I needed to research this and in doing so found this forum. They have helped me in so many ways, and I totally know that they have helped me to take care of Tommy to be as healthy as possible. Read all you can and feel free to ask all your questions here. Get started with BG testing as soon as possible when the kitties come. Knowledge is crucial and testing his BG will give you the knowledge you need to make the best decisions. Again, welcome!
 
Yes, I'm a vet tech - Even worked a year in a cat only hospital - But I left the profession 2 years ago, it's a very emotional, difficult job - And I just couldn't handle it anymore, to many deaths, to much suffering, to many animals that I couldn't help because there was either nothing we could do, or the owner couldn't afford the proper treatment. I know a lot has changed in the 2 years since I left the field.

I agree most vets need more education on FD. Even with my vet tech experience - I know how to treat in hospital, but not in a home setting. I also know most vets push prescription foods and would try to talk me into going with a dry prescription diet - I find them low quality and junky, so I really have not a clue what is best for a diabetic cat without using prescription cat foods that I want to avoid - I know there are better foods then those for diabetic cats.

Anyway - I will get my boys tomorrow (Wednesday). Have a doctors appointment this morning, and it's about a 4 hr drive each way to where my cats currently are from me, so I have to wait - But they are worth being patient for a couple days. I almost adopted a Cornish Rex from a purebred cat rescue before I found out about Max and Dax, but they where having a hard time reaching a couple of my references and it took a bit to find someone they felt was suitable to do my home visit. I was approved to adopt the Cornish Rex, but decided these 2 boys need me more, I know it can be challenging to find a home for an older cat, especially one with special needs, and bonded pairs are harder to place - So taking the brothers together instead of adopting from the rescue just makes more sense, I know the Cornish is safe and in a wonderful rescue, so she'll get an amazing home, these boys could have ended up in the shelter or euthanized if I hadn't agreed to rescue them.

Very excited to get them - the current owner has not been monitoring glucose at home at all, so I'll go to Walmart for a meter tomorrow. She told me he Is on an insulin called "Lantus".
 
Catinfo.org is a great resource on all things regarding feline nutrition, complete with a food chart with the "as fed" values of most commercial canned cat food. For diabetics, most any food less than 8-10% calories from carbs (the first Column C) will work, the lower the better. It's also safe to feed both of your cats the same low carb food (and better for them, too). Both of mine enjoy the Friskies Special Diet Turkey and Giblets and have been eating that since they were both kittens (only one is diabetic and also allergic to red meats so it really narrows the choices down for us :lol: ).

Lantus is a great insulin and there's even an established Protocol for using it in cats with a remission rate of around 86% for newly diagnosed cats (within the first 6 months). After that, the chances of remission do decrease, but it's still a possibility.

I'm excited for you to bring your two new fur babies home! :-D
 
I can't wait to get them here, I have so missed sharing my life with a cat - I'm so glad to be getting them!!!!

Thank you for the information on Lantus - That's good to know the remission rate is so high with it! I know that getting him on a low carb, high quality wet food diet or going to a raw diet is going to help a lot in managing his diabetes. Already have an appointment with my vet so we can discuss Dax's case and have her meet both boys and do a good exam so we have solid baselines for both of them :)

Here is a video of each cat I got earlier today from their current owner, as well as a new picture :)
http://s297.photobucket.com/user/Ig_momma/media/Video1.mp4.html
Max
http://s297.photobucket.com/user/Ig_momma/media/Video.mp4.html
Dax
 

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KPassa said:
Catinfo.org is a great resource on all things regarding feline nutrition, complete with a food chart with the "as fed" values of most commercial canned cat food. For diabetics, most any food less than 8-10% calories from carbs (the first Column C) will work, the lower the better. It's also safe to feed both of your cats the same low carb food (and better for them, too). Both of mine enjoy the Friskies Special Diet Turkey and Giblets and have been eating that since they were both kittens (only one is diabetic and also allergic to red meats so it really narrows the choices down for us :lol: ).

Lantus is a great insulin and there's even an established Protocol for using it in cats with a remission rate of around 86% for newly diagnosed cats (within the first 6 months). After that, the chances of remission do decrease, but it's still a possibility.

I'm excited for you to bring your two new fur babies home! :-D
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Thank you for that info - That food chart is very helpful!!! Will use that to guide my decisions on which foods to try with the boys! I agree ALL cats should be on a low-carb diet. Cats are carnivores, they don't need all that plant material and junk in their diet!
 
FYI: Food changes may drop the glucose level as much as 100 mg/dL, depending on what they have been fed, so you'll want to be home testing before changing the food from what they have been eating. Plus, vet stress may elevate the glucose from 100 to 180 mg/dL in the office.

And you probably know that sudden food changes may provoke GI upset, so that gradually changing to new food about 20-25% per day may reduce the risks of that.
 
Thanks everyone for all the help, I've already started testing twice a day, and we went to the vet yesterday to get him established so I can keep in touch with the vet so she knows what's going on and she can adjust the prescription as needed to keep him stable. They arrived here early yesterday - His BG at breakfast time (I am going to be feeding at 8 am and pm) was 56 that morning - I am not sure if this is because he didn't eat well the night before or what, his BG last night was 244, this morning it was 247, he's been getting Friskies and Fancy Feast canned foods. I'm going to try switching to get them onto raw as I'm a big believer in species appropriate raw diets especially for cats, but if he won't accept raw then we'll stick with wet food. Going up a unit on the insulin tonight if he is still in the 200s and see what his sugar level looks like in the morning.
 
Lantus isn't based on pre-shots as much as it's based on the nadir/low point in the cycle (around 5-7 hours after giving a shot). I would suggest on holding off on an increase just yet because we first need to see how low his current dose is taking him. If you could grab some mid-cycle tests over the next 3 days or so, we'll be able to see if it's safe to raise the dose and, if so, by how much. We usually only raise the dose in .25u increments at a time and hold it for a minimum of 3 days/6 cycles. Any time he drops below 50, that counts as an automatic dose reduction of .25u.

That 56 you got the other day, when was the last time he had been given insulin prior to that?
 
You want a dose that can be given safely twice a day. If the first shot you gave took him down to 56, it is too high and should be reduced.

Starting out, do not shoot below 200 mg/dL on a human glucometer (230 on a pet specific meter).
The nadir, lowest point between shots, should remain above 50 mg/dL(80 on a pet specific meter) on a human glucometer, for safety.
 
I am not sure of the exact time the insulin was given the night before, as I got the boys early that morning (about 3 am), as a friend picked them up from their previous owners and brought them to Vegas for me.

How to you accurately dose .25u? Do I need a different type of syringe then what I have? What I have right now is Relion 30g, 3/10 syringes. If you recommend a different kind of syringe, where is the best place to get them? That is all the pharmacy I got them from carries.
 
WalMart syringes w/ half unit markings
NDC code: 81131-0311-73
Volume: 3/10 mL (cc)
Hauge: 30
Length: 8 mm(5{15") short needle

(Had the bag in my pocket as I'm going shopping!)

Magnifiers - hand, stand, visor, or clip on - help a lot with seeing small doses.
Calipers may be used to ensure the amount, too, as syringe batches may vary in their placement of the lines on the syringe barrel.
 
I got my syringes at Walmart and asked the pharmacist about syringes with half unit markers and she acted like she had no clue what I was talking about *sigh* oh well.

Dax has stayed low all day today without any insulin (Called vet this morning, and she advised me not to give any more unless his numbers go at least over 150, but she would probably watch and wait for over 200). She also told me to keep in mind that a Relion meter reads a little lower then actual for a cat. He was at 35 this morning, then 29 an hour AFTER being fed with no insulin, I thought that was weird but he was acting fine and the vet told me to just keep an eye on him and check mid day. Mid day he was at 31, tonight when he normally would get insulin he was back to 27, so I offered some cuts in gravy and he went up to 85 when I checked an hour later, an hour after that he was back to 66 - So it appears his body is self regulating. He hasn't had any insulin in over 24 hrs now. I'm going to really watch his numbers closely for a few days, but unless they go up and stay up, it looks like in the very short time I've had him, just getting him onto a better quality food may have been all it took to get him into remission! Hoping that's the case! My vet was very encouraged that his numbers where as low as they are, and he was still acting great, she said it was a very positive sign that his body was starting to do it's job and regulate things without the need of additional insulin.
 
Hello Lydia,

You have probably saved Dax's life several times. Since he went as low as you describe (27, 29, 35...), he will probably be extra, extra, extra sensitive to insulin. Please do not give him any insulin unless you check with this board. I simply would not, if he were mine. He might have been even lower (read: close to death) that it shocked his system and he will not need any insulin. To repeat: He was probably very close to death. So sorry, but that's how I see the situation. He looks very fragile. He needs plenty of good wet food, extra cuddles, love.. all of which I know you are providing. You are awesome! Good for you! He's one lucky boy, as is his brother!
Best wishes to you and Dax,
Sophie
 
Ya, I was a vet tech for 11 years so those low numbers really concerned me, and I knew he didn't need insulin! Been really watching him tonight, just did a spot check (if he was getting insulin still, it would be about 6 hrs since he would have normally gotten a shot) and he's at 76. That is a number I can be very happy with! I doubt he will need any insulin, at least not for awhile. Unless I see his numbers go pretty high, close to 200 or over, I won't be giving any more insulin to him, I'll just monitor his BG and see how it goes. The scary part is his previous owner was giving the insulin without any home monitoring at all, so he's very lucky! I would never give insulin without watching what the sugars do - Especially on a cat just diagnosed (he was only diagnosed with diabetes 01/13/14, so just barely over a month ago!).
 
Barring other medical problems, if he is not on insulin, he cannot hypo.

And if he stays under 130 without insulin for 14 days, we consider him Off The Juice (OTJ).

Note: all home glucometers read within about 20% of what a lab might get per FDA requirements for selling in the USA. Two tests may be considered the same if the +/- ranges overlap.
To check, answer the following:
Is the low value * 1.2 greater than (>) the high value * 0.8?
If yes, they may be considered the same
 
Dax! Your mommabean Lydia broke you already?!?! :RAHCAT :RAHCAT

Guess she loves you very much to add you and your brudder Max to her family. I know my mommabean Deb loves me lots.

Hope you really like those new fuds you're eating, cause they really seem to have made a huge difference. I think she needs to fatten you up just a tiny bit, but not too much cause we don't want you to need those shots again.

What's your favorite flavor? Mine is Fancy Feast Turkey & Giblets

Cheering you on - Wink
 
Wow! What an amazing story. Max and Dax are so lucky to have found you. I noticed in your first post that you might be interested in feeding raw. The website where we get the food list catinfo.org has a great recipe for making your own raw food. I use this recipe as it has the proper ratio of bone to meat that is needed for an optimal carnivore diet. I was able to transition all of my cats to it and the outward benefits are so worthwhile. It is safe for a diabetic cat but has too much phoshorus for a CRF cat.

Good luck with them. Looks like Dax may not need insulin much longer.
 
Been watching his numbers close to day, so far our highest was his last reading at 5:00 (his last insulin was at 9:00 2 nights ago). I'm watching but as long as it stays below 130, I don't think I'm going to give any more insulin, if it hits that, I'll give him half a unit instead of a whole unit. I'm thinking the good food has made all the difference! He also really likes the chicken Wellness cat food. I've done raw diets with cats before, and have my dogs all on raw - But I'm always happy to look at recipies! I don't add anything to them, just whole ground meat including organs and bone, that way the ratios are right and I don't worry about it being out of balance. So far not getting him of his brother to interested in eating raw, but I'll keep working at it. Until then I'll just stick with whatever he likes as long as it's grain and potato free, and I try to stick with pate varieties vs the ones with more gravy.

And yes, I love my boys very much - I wasted no time getting them here! I knew they needed to be here with me, I'm glad Dax had no problems there, it really had me concerned that they had started him on insulin and weren't monitoring his level at home at all :shock: But unless a vet tells someone to, often they just don't know they're suppose to! Vets really need to be better educated so they can better educate their clients on home care with animals, especially with serious diseases like Diabetes that can kill if not properly managed!!!!
 
So far not getting him of his brother to interested in eating raw, but I'll keep working at it. Until then I'll just stick with whatever he likes as long as it's grain and potato free, and I try to stick with pate varieties vs the ones with more gravy.
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I never could get my civie Libby to eat the raw food.

Hope you have better luck with Dax and Max. Yes, the pate varieties are lower carb then most of those gravy or grilled or sliced varieties.

Keep up the good work.

it really had me concerned that they had started him on insulin and weren't monitoring his level at home at all :shock: But unless a vet tells someone to, often they just don't know they're suppose to! Vets really need to be better educated so they can better educate their clients on home care with animals, especially with serious diseases like Diabetes that can kill if not properly managed!!!!
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Yes, we wish vets were more straightforward with their diabetic cat clients. Guess they are scared of asking too much from their clients and afraid the clients will opt to put their cats to sleep instead of treating this easily managed disease. We just try to educate where we can. One vet at a time, one cat owner at a time.

It saddens me when people come on here and tell us their vet actually discourages home testing or tells them they won't help them if they home test and to find another vet. I realize the vet is concerned about liability and about losing money if the cat owner isn't bringing them in to test, but not every one can afford that. Even the AAHA Diabetes Management Guidelines for Dogs and Cats, vet journal published in 2010, says that home testing is best and easy to learn. That's a good resource to pass along to any vets you know.
 
Thanks, will pass that along to both cat owners and vets alike! Thankfully the vets I know (Ok, so I'm actually very selective in what vets I even go to in the beginning LOL) all are very good at recommending home testing, since the only vets I'll used are vets I have worked with in a professional capacity when I was working as a vet tech, so I know are good to educate their clients and to really go out of their way to make sure the animals come first. But I also live in an area where vets are in abundance so it allows me to be very selective, where I grew up, unless you wanted to drive quite a ways, the options for vets where pretty limited. Right now I'm trying to get one of my old neighbors that still lives in that area to take her cat to a different vet for a PU surgery, he keeps re-blocking when the vet removes the catheter and the cat keeps developing stones and has already had 2 surgeries in a week to remove stones from his bladder, and yet she just won't listen and get him to a vet that's willing to do the PU surgery :( I hate it when people come to me for help, and they won't change ANYTHING they're doing to try to help their animal! Makes me wonder why they come to me to begin with :( I just hope her cat survives!
 
It took my old girl civvie, Emmylou, five months to figure out that the old food wasn't ever coming back. With only one lick came the realization that the raw food tasted so much better than the canned food she was being offered. Of course I have to put Parmesan on top of hers. I recently took in her mother and not only did she take to the raw immediately, but it is now all that she will eat! I like knowing what is in their food and like the results even more.
 
I completely agree. It is SOOO much better to be able to have complete control over what your feeding your babies! All 3 of my dogs are on raw, I wouldn't have it any other way!
 
Hi Lydia,

I am soooooo glad Dax went into remission! Your cats are so lucky they found you.

I have two Devon Rex cats, too! These are Bruno and Coyote:

http://instagram.com/p/lsjcjvN1Xh/

Bruno, the orange one, has diabetes. He hopes he can be like Dax and go into remission, too. :)

Anna
 
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