Newbie - first shot is supposed to be tonight

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Shari and Max

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My 4 year old cat, Max, was just diagnosed with diabetes last night. I'm supposed to give him his first shot tonight. Pardon me if I quietly freak out in the corner. Dr put him on 5 units of Lantus (glargine), twice a day. A friend, who's been through this directed me to this board. Lots of information (from lots of directions -friends, other sites- often conflicting) to process. This board looks like it will be very useful.

Saw information on this board that Lantus should be started in smaller doses, so not sure what to do. Plus it's getting late. Thinking of holding off until tomorrow night so I can talk to the vet in the morning and confirm. His initial number when the vet checked him was 596. Vet gave him 5 units at the office. Don't know if the weight of the cat matters.

The vet 'tented' his skin 6 times showing me how to give the shot. I tried it once and he bit me. (not hard - love bite) Obviously I'm not doing it right.

Unfortunately my friend doesn't live nearby, so she can't show me.

I appreciate the message you are sending to the Newbies in many of the posts I've read: Don't panic, start slow, it's a process.
 
Welcome Shari and Max!

NO, I would not give Max 5 units of Lantus this evening. Give yourself some time to learn about how it works and how to use it effectively. I will post this first because I hope you won't give the shot. My next post will have resources for you.
 
whoaaaaaaa! yeah, don't give that shot just yet k 'cause yeah that's a very high starting dose for any insulin. you don't have a meter to test kitty at home yet do you? any chance you can get one?

the big problem i see is that you're going to call the vet and he's going to insist you start at that high dose unfortunately. alot of professionals do that. but they don't live this disease day in and day out like the owners do and don't see all that happens with it. but if so, i'd just tell him/her that you would prefer to be safe and start at a lower dose and work your way up safely and that you don't want to miss the ideal dose by starting so high. also, once that 5 units is in the cat and if/when the cat hypo's, you can't take it out as easily as if you shoot 1 unit, find out it doesn't work, and can add more if it's warranted.

what does the vet have you doing as far as proper diet goes? that makes a huge difference in kitty's response to care too.

fwiw, if you want to post your general location we can see if any of us are close enough to help you with shots or testing (don't post specifics openly here like house number, phone number, or anything as this is the web. if someone is close enough to help, you can hook up with them confidentially for specifics)
 
So, having said that. Here is information on how to dose Lantus: viewtopic.php?f=9&t=1581

Our protocol calls for wet lo carb diet, starting at a low dose of insulin and going slow and testing blood glucose levels at home so we are sure it is safe to give insulin at the dose we are planning. If I were you, I would learn how to hometest. Video for hometesting We have taught hundreds of people how to do it over the internet. We'd love to help you.

Here's a picture of how to give the shot: How to give a shot We always gave the shot to Oliver while his face was deep in the food dish.
 
Haven't given the shot. My friend warned against it and this board was making me rethink it

Just to make sure my "unit" and your "unit" is the same, I have Insulin Syringes with the BD ultra find needle

Capacity 3/10 mL cc, length 12.7 mm , 30 guage. (off the package)

The vet said pull to 5 on the syringe. I am assuming that is 5 units, and the unit isn't referring to some other type of measurement. (He did give me the air bubbles lesson)
 
First off YIKES...5units twice a day is WAY too much for a newly dxed kitty. Most are started on either .5u or 1u. Unless there is something else going on that makes him require more than normal.

My own Max was 485 when dxed, and 1u twice a day was more than enough. So if you haven't given your Max any insulin I would say hold off, that is way too much for a kitty. And no the dose isn't based on weight.

Two of the single best things you can do for your furry guy is 1) switch him to a low carb, high protein canned catfood diet, and 2) Learn to test his BG's at home. You can use a regular human meter and test strips. We just prick the edge of the ear to get a small drop of blood to test. This has a ton of benefits as it lets you know exactly how the insulin is working, so you know if he is at a safe number to given insulin to, as well as allowing you to catch if he is going to low and might be in danger of hypo. Also you won't have to keep dragging him back to the vet for curves, but I'm sure your friend can give you all the skinny on how that works.

I'm sure others will be jumping in shortly to get you a ton of links to read, sorry I can't be of more help right now but I was just about to head out the door to go retrieve my husband from work, but will check back in on you when I return.

Just breathe and don't panic, you are now in the best place on Earth that you never wanted to be, but will be glad you found.
We would love to help you help your Max.

Mel, Max & The Fur Gang
 
I'm starting him on the Purina DM diet. (Vet sells it so it was convenient to buy last night) I have 3 cats and am putting them all on that for now assuming they'll eat it. Too hard to separate them for feeding right now. When things are a little less chaotic, I am planning to research the commercial alternative that are mentioned on this board. I'm just trying to simplify at the beginning.

I do plan on home testing, but to be honest, I won't be able to get one at least until the weekend. A few posts I read, it sounded like the Relion was a good choice.
 
Wet Purina DM is an okay choice - 8% carbs, but liver based and expensive and not any better than commercial foods. If your cats will eat it (many won't because of the liver) it is okay until you get something else. Purina will accept any returns - just say your cats won't eat it. If you would like other choices, check out our food chart. We feed under 10% carbs, seafood limited to a few times a week. Janet and Binky’s chart

Yes, the ReliOn is very popular here and the less expensive in terms of meter and strips.
 
How much do I feed them?

Original feeding schedule for all three:
Split a can of Friskies 3 ways in the morning
Free feed on Purina 1 Sensitive Systems dry (yeah, yeah this probably led to the issue, but until now I've never had a cat with an issue with free feeding)
Split a can of FF in the evening

Until I can get a little more organized this weekend, I'm planning:
Split a can of wet Purina DM in the morning 3 ways
Free feed on Dry Purina DM during the day
Split a can of wet Purina DM in the evening.

Sounds like I should move them to all wet food. But I am going to have to work out a separation method, because Max will eat all of the food, pushing the other cats out of the way.

How do you figure out how much wet food each cat should get during the day?

Thanks!
 
It would be best to get them completely off dry. If you are not giving insulin yet and plan to test when you start, you can switch them all over. Some of us free feed by freezing the wet and letting it thaw during the day; some of us use automatic feeders. Or you can just leave it out. It doesn't hurt it. (Think day old mice.......)

The reason I would want you to be hometesting before you switch to all wet is that it can really lower bg levels. When we switched, Oliver came down 100 points overnight.

I feed my inactive 10 pound non diabetic cat 2 cans of Fancy Feast daily. I fed my diabetic 15 pound Maine Coon 3 cans when he was an unregulated diabetic.
 
Oh good, your in good hands with Sue.

But to answer the food question as best I can, I free feed canned food to all 11 of my cats, only one of those is a diabetic. I feed just old-fashioned Friskies pate flavors off the Binky's List, Sue gave you the link for. Now my civies (non-diabetics) all eat together and range in size and age from 9 month old kittens to a lazy FAT (he's dieting) 6 yr old. With weights from 7lbs to 19 lbs. The 9 that share their dinner plates go through 12 cans a day.

Now my diabetic Max, and his girlfriend (long story), don't like to share their dishes, so they dine in my bedroom, and I feed them 4 times a day because I'm home. Max weighs 14.5lbs and he is in remission, He eats about a can and 1/2 per day, Lady Jane Grey his buddy is a little thing at 5lbs but I'm trying to get her to gain so she eats about a can to a can and a half per day. Although when Max was still on insulin and regaining weight he easily went through 3 cans per day by himself.

Can size = 5.5oz

Mel, Max & The Fur Gang
 
So I'm thinking then the better plan of attack would be:

1. Switch them to all wet tomorrow and on. Love the day old mouse remark - puts leaving the canned food out in perspective :-D But I think I may invest in a couple automatic feeders soon. (I have the DM for now and should have time to start researching what regular brands/flavors will work this weekend or shortly thereafter). I'll just make sure the other 2 cats are getting enough opportunity to eat in the morning and evening, in case Max is hogging the food during the day.

2. Talk to my vet about the dosage.

3. Get my home tester this weekend. Don't give the first insulin dose until I can home test. It will be okay to wait a couple days start the insulin.


BTW, I live in Zelienople, PA. (near Pittsburgh)

Sound reasonable?
 
on my way out the door to go home for the night but boy have you lucked out. there's a very large group of gals on here in the pittsburgh area. so many that they all get together a couple times a year and have lunch, plant exchanges, etc.....

if you end up wanting some hands on help with shots or learning to test, or just want to hook up with others local to you, get hold of (or someone can do it for you) deb & spot, dian & wheezer, lynda and scruffy and there's others but fiance is yelling at me to go right now. LOL!!!
 
It seems okay Ideally, we would like you to start hometesting now. There is no way of knowing how long it would be safe to postpone the insulin - high bg levels are not good for your kitty. Wet food should help lower the levels.

If you decide to postpone the insulin, I would get ketostix and test his urine. It is not as good as the glucometer, but it is better than nothing.

You can give a low dose of insulin until you are testing at home. The usual starting dose is .5 to 1 unit twice daily. But you can't know what the insulin is really doing until you test.

Get your supplies and let's get started asap.
 
Can someone confirm my understanding of the units that I mentioned earlier in the post @7:35pm? I want to make sure I'm on the same page regarding what a unit is. Thanks.
 
ok, lantus is a u100 insulin so you should have u100 syringes.

based on the description of the syringes you gave earlier, yes, the 5 mark is 5 units.

just to make sure though, your syringes have markings in 5 unit increments up to 30 right, with a bunch of lines in between each number?
 
Yes, the syringes have those markings and say 'use u-100 insulin only'.

Thanks for the confirmation. I just wanted to make sure I was interpreting the vet correctly when he said to go to 5 that it was 5 units and not some fraction of that (like really it was .5 units).

But wow, to only give .5 or 1 in that syringe isn't very much. How can you be accurate in what you are drawing? I would think for an amount that small, the syringe would be smaller in width so you could be more accurate with the markings.(Markings further apart) Does that make sense?
 
they're out there. you just have to find them :-)
standard issue is the whole unit marked ones but ones with half unit markings are available.
i get mine at walmart actually. some people order there's online at places like http://www.hocks.com though.

i just tell the gal in the pharmacy, relion 3/10cc 5/16" needle 30 or 31 gauge with half unit markings and ta-da! she brings me a box of them. in all honesty though, sometimes they're out and i have to get the ones without the half unit markings but i've been doing this for over 4 years now so i can eyeball it pretty good.

fwiw, they do make syringe magnifiers too that make it easier to see what you're doing. let me see if i can find a link for that.......ok, googled it and came up with this http://www.google.com/search?q=syringe+ ... d=0CDYQrQQ
 
If you're going to wait to start the insulin until the weekend I would highly recommend picking up some Ketostix (I got a bottle of 50 at CVS for about $15). All you do is dip a strip into fresh urine (yum!), wait 15 seconds, and compare the color on the stick to a color chart on the bottle.

I use the Relion and love it. It's easy, cheap, and requires a very small blood sample.

And I agree with some of the others that recommended giving a reduced dose (.5-1 unit) instead of skipping it altogether.

And to put into perspective the huge impact that diet can have, here is my cat Mali's story in a nutshell: diagnosed 5-1/2 years ago, still ate mostly dry food, was getting 3.5 units twice a day. He was recently switched to an all wet food diet due to dental issues (he's 17) and he immediately stopped requiring insulin. He's doing great now, but we didn't realize what a big effect the change in diet would have and didn't alter his doseage. He went into hypo, had a seizure and we could've lost him. That's when I got proactive - did lots of research, found this forum, started home testing (blood and urine), maintained a strict all-wet low-carb diet. And he's great now! He's lost a little weight (still has more to lose, he's pretty chubby), his fur has gotten much softer and shinier, and he just seems to be feeling better.

It's great that you're reaching out from day one, I wish I would've known about websites like this one in the beginning! But it sounds like you're getting some good advice, keep us posted and good luck!
 
hi shari.
dian and wheezer here. i know where Z is but that is about an hour from me. I live on the other side of pgh near monroeville. I get lost very easily but if you want to get together I can give it a shot or we can meet someplace or you come here or I see if anyone wants to come with me, like deb and spot but would have to see when she is off.
in the meantime, I think I would just put on an all wet lo carb diet which can work wonders is helping to bring down numbers.
I use special kitty. you can get syringes at walmart with 1/2 unit markings. let me know what your decision is and I will see what I can do., K
 
Glad to see you're posting and getting some good feedback! For everyone that's replied, I'm the friend that directed Shari here :)

Dian, I mentioned to Shari possibly Lynda would be willing to teach her how to hometest. It stinks for me to no longer be right down the road!

Thanks to everyone for helping out my dear friend and her big guy Max.
 
that would be great helen ans she is closer. I will see if I can get in touch with her on FB as she does not frequent here
ok, sent off a PM to lynda and will wait to hear from her. if she cannot help, I will make the drive. hopefully I can find someone to go with me as my ability for getting lost is quite high
 
edited a few times

ok, so here is what you need to start before starting insulin

1) ketostix to test urine for ketones

2) meter. relion micro or confirm is the cheapes and the strips are cheaper than other strips. I believe $20 for 50 or there abouts. make sure there is a lancet and lancet needles in the kit. if not, pick those up also. very cheap

3) ditch the dry and you can take the DM back to vet and tell them cats will not eat. they will give money back for returned ones.all the cats can eat this and will be much happier and healthier
cheapest food is special kitty, the 10oz cans. I get supper supper,., mixed grill and turkey and giblets when they have the latter.
I feed my guys 2x/day but sometimes new diabetics are very hungry cause they are not able to utilize the food. the fosters I have get fed 4xday. they get a total of 6 oz/day. that is 2 fancy feast size cans split up into 4 feedings.
any questions PM me and we will see what we can do to help

4) walmart also has the syringes. get what they said above with 1/2u markings. will say so right on box or can order from hocks.com

one stop shopping.
hope this helps. oh yea. no rush on starting insulin. as said before. just changing to wet lo carb will help numbers and please do not give more than 1u. I personally would start at .5u until you can test and see what is going on.
oh yea, cats ARE NEVER DOSED ACCORDING TO WEIGHT. at least not their initial weight. it goes by ideal weight. do not know formula but if cat weighs #20 and should weigh 10#, that is the weight you use and it always comes out to .5u-1u. ALWAYS
 
Hi There!! This Deb, of Deb and Spot. I'm a friend of Lynda and Dian (and Wheezer). I live in the Pittsburgh area and am about 45 minutes away from Zelenople and know the area pretty well since my sister lived there for a while. I have no problem coming out w/Dian to help if Lynda can't do it. However, my plate is pretty full for the next couple of days....I am working Friday from 7 am until about 8 pm. Saturday I'm working from 7 am until approximately 4 pm and Sunday working from 7am until noonish, then off to my nieces b.day party and then off to a Blues for Food bash. The Bash is in Cranberry, so I'll be out in the area. Soooooo.....I am available Saturday between 4 and 6 (Spot gets his shot at 6) and Sunday afternoon...about a window of 1 hour between 3 and 4. Let me know what would work for you!
 
Hey, Helen!

(I wondered who Shari was referring to when she said "Helen"! How are you? And does she go to our good old Dr. G?)

I am delighted to help Shari learn to test Max. And she's right down the road - God forbid Dian would have to be loose in her car hunting for Butler County! I'm going to go and hunt up my FD stuff, and meet Shari this weekend.

I never caught onto this new board - I think maybe my avatar and signature pictures of ScruffyDoodle are missing.... as are my beloved emoticons. (My old computer died a year ago.)
 
GREAT!! thanks Lynda. I never heard back so I am glad you were able to get in touch with her. you are in good hands sheri. good luck with max and scritches to the boy from me. maybe we will get to meet in the near future since you are practically a neighbor. let us know how it goes
 
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