Newbie concerns

[AFinn]

I am new to this, so I hope I'm doing this right. My cat was diagnosed with diabetes last Monday after showing some symptoms like drinking and urinating more. He is almost 10 years old and is 15 pounds. I've taken him to the vet for two glucose curves and he was started out on 2 units twice a day (to be be on the safe side but was told he'd likely be on 3) of Vetsulin and just bumped up to 3 units twice a day yesterday. For the first glucose curve, he was given something to help with stress levels and to help keep him calm. I was told he responded surprisingly well to the first curve. He's scheduled for another next week. He eats Purina indoor dry food, 1/3 cup with each insulin dose, and I leave out what he doesn't eat at that time. I'll give him a couple treats, too. I hope that's enough food. I don't know how to calculate how much he should get. The vet wants to keep him on his normal food and routine and thinks it's better for him to eat than to possibly be picky and not eat a new food. He may adjust his diet if he's hard to regulate. I haven't learned how to do home testing yet. I am trying to put my trust in the vet. I'm just very scared that I'm going to do something wrong that will cause something bad to happen to my cat. I'm also completely terrified of a hypoglycemic episode or that I won't recognize it or will be gone or sleeping. How soon after giving insulin can one typically occur? I've been watching him so closely after each dose, I'm that scared, and I know I would get more sleep if I wasn't so scared of that. The vet tried to assure me that it won't happen but told me what to do if it does. If anyone has any tips for this newbie, or anything that could help ease my fears, please let me know. I will try to update my profile and create an introduction soon.

 

[Sharon14]

Welcome AFinn! Most of us were terrified and overwhelmed when our fur babies were first diagnosed, so you’re not alone. The best thing you can do is to learn to home test. That’s the only way to keep your cat safe and know how well the insulin is working. Once you learn that, then a diet change to a low carb food will help tremendously. Here’s some info on home testing
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/hometesting-links-and-tips.287/
Check it out and ask any questions you have

 

[JanetNJ]

I am new to this, so I hope I'm doing this right. My cat was diagnosed with diabetes last Monday after showing some symptoms like drinking and urinating more. He is almost 10 years old and is 15 pounds. I've taken him to the vet for two glucose curves and he was started out on 2 units twice a day (to be be on the safe side but was told he'd likely be on 3) of Vetsulin and just bumped up to 3 units twice a day yesterday. For the first glucose curve, he was given something to help with stress levels and to help keep him calm. I was told he responded surprisingly well to the first curve. He's scheduled for another next week. He eats Purina indoor dry food, 1/3 cup with each insulin dose, and I leave out what he doesn't eat at that time. I'll give him a couple treats, too. I hope that's enough food. I don't know how to calculate how much he should get. The vet wants to keep him on his normal food and routine and thinks it's better for him to eat than to possibly be picky and not eat a new food. He may adjust his diet if he's hard to regulate. I haven't learned how to do home testing yet. I am trying to put my trust in the vet. I'm just very scared that I'm going to do something wrong that will cause something bad to happen to my cat. I'm also completely terrified of a hypoglycemic episode or that I won't recognize it or will be gone or sleeping. How soon after giving insulin can one typically occur? I've been watching him so closely after each dose, I'm that scared, and I know I would get more sleep if I wasn't so scared of that. The vet tried to assure me that it won't happen but told me what to do if it does. If anyone has any tips for this newbie, or anything that could help ease my fears, please let me know. I will try to update my profile and create an introduction soon.

welcome!
Ok so a few things.

1. The food you're feeding is 100% not ok for a diabetic cat. This food is somewhere in the range of 37-42% carb. It would be like a diabetic person literally eating cookies all day. It has very little meat protien and is a filler. However, before you switch to an appropriate diet you will need to drop your dose back down to 1, and learn to test at home... Which brings me to my next suggestions.

2. I get that paranoia about hypos. They are scary. Your number 1 tool against that is to home test your cat just like diabetic people do. You would never give insulin to a child without testing and the same goes for a beloved pet. I have a video in my signature showing how I test my cat CC at home. Please watch it. After the first couple weeks is not difficult unless your cat is very high strung or semi feral.

Testing at home is cheaper, more accurate, and less stressful than frequent vet visits.

3. Back to diet. The BEST choice is a low carb wet food such as fancy feast classic or Friskies pate. I feed fancy feast and Tiki cat. I will l link to the food list. You want to choose foods under 10 percent carb (under 7 is even better).


https://catinfo.org/docs/CatFoodProteinFatCarbPhosphorusChart.pdf

If your cat had always eaten dry and just won't go for it, there are better choices than what you're feeding. Young Again Zero carb (Youngagainpetfood.com), epigen 90, and Dr. Elsley's Clean Protein chicken flavor are all under 10 carb. All these companies will send you a free sample if you ask. Still the best foods are wet, but these are better than the purina.

 

[FurBabiesMama]

Welcome. To be blunt, that food is 'crap'. If you have not been there yet, I suggest you visit the site catinfo.org. It is the site of a vet, Dr. Lisa Pierson, and it will give you a LOT of info on feline nutrition. The bottom line is that a high-protein, low-carb wet food diet is best. You would most likely need a smaller insulin dose if you switched to a lower carb diet. An appropriate diet and home testing at the two most important things you can do to help your cat. Everyone starts out overwhelmed and thinking they cannot do it, but you can do it, and it gets easier much quicker than you would think. You can get a lot of advice and support here to help you along the way.

 

[Rardito]

I am new to this, so I hope I'm doing this right. My cat was diagnosed with diabetes last Monday after showing some symptoms like drinking and urinating more. He is almost 10 years old and is 15 pounds. I've taken him to the vet for two glucose curves and he was started out on 2 units twice a day (to be be on the safe side but was told he'd likely be on 3) of Vetsulin and just bumped up to 3 units twice a day yesterday. For the first glucose curve, he was given something to help with stress levels and to help keep him calm. I was told he responded surprisingly well to the first curve. He's scheduled for another next week. He eats Purina indoor dry food, 1/3 cup with each insulin dose, and I leave out what he doesn't eat at that time. I'll give him a couple treats, too. I hope that's enough food. I don't know how to calculate how much he should get. The vet wants to keep him on his normal food and routine and thinks it's better for him to eat than to possibly be picky and not eat a new food. He may adjust his diet if he's hard to regulate. I haven't learned how to do home testing yet. I am trying to put my trust in the vet. I'm just very scared that I'm going to do something wrong that will cause something bad to happen to my cat. I'm also completely terrified of a hypoglycemic episode or that I won't recognize it or will be gone or sleeping. How soon after giving insulin can one typically occur? I've been watching him so closely after each dose, I'm that scared, and I know I would get more sleep if I wasn't so scared of that. The vet tried to assure me that it won't happen but told me what to do if it does. If anyone has any tips for this newbie, or anything that could help ease my fears, please let me know. I will try to update my profile and create an introduction soon.

My vet sounds like your vet. Within 3 days he had upped Mitsy's vetsulin to 5u twice a day. I'm glad I found this board before she hypo'd! I believe the general rule is to start with 1u and hold the dose for 6 cycles, then up if necessary. At the very minimum you will need to test the sugar before each shot. If possible it is good to test a few hours after the shot as well.

You'll also want to change to low carb wet food (someone above posted the link). It is especially important to test when you change foods because some cats go into remission based on diet alone.

For testing, a lot of us use the ReliOn meter from Walmart. And you'll want to set up a spreadsheet to keep track of numbers (there are instructions at the top of one of the boards). Lastly don't forget to update your signature, you can look at ours for an example!

 

[AFinn]

Thank you, everyone. I'm going to take him for another curve on Tuesday so will ask again about diet and home testing. If I switch his food, how long would it take for him to get used to it before upping his insulin again and what's the lowest dose I'd have to switch him to? Also, are there people here that use dry food? I may try that and wet food as a treat since I'm not sure if he'll like it. Thoughts? So far he's seemed okay on 3 units but how soon after can hypoglycemia occur? I'm so stressed out about all of this.

 

[AFinn]

Is this one of the foods you mentioned?

https://www.petco.com/shop/en/petcostore/product/dr-elseys-clean-protein-chicken-dry-food-for-cats

welcome!
Ok so a few things.

1. The food you're feeding is 100% not ok for a diabetic cat. This food is somewhere in the range of 37-42% carb. It would be like a diabetic person literally eating cookies all day. It has very little meat protien and is a filler. However, before you switch to an appropriate diet you will need to drop your dose back down to 1, and learn to test at home... Which brings me to my next suggestions.

2. I get that paranoia about hypos. They are scary. Your number 1 tool against that is to home test your cat just like diabetic people do. You would never give insulin to a child without testing and the same goes for a beloved pet. I have a video in my signature showing how I test my cat CC at home. Please watch it. After the first couple weeks is not difficult unless your cat is very high strung or semi feral.

Testing at home is cheaper, more accurate, and less stressful than frequent vet visits.

3. Back to diet. The BEST choice is a low carb wet food such as fancy feast classic or Friskies pate. I feed fancy feast and Tiki cat. I will l link to the food list. You want to choose foods under 10 percent carb (under 7 is even better).


https://catinfo.org/docs/CatFoodProteinFatCarbPhosphorusChart.pdf

If your cat had always eaten dry and just won't go for it, there are better choices than what you're feeding. Young Again Zero carb (Youngagainpetfood.com), epigen 90, and Dr. Elsley's Clean Protein chicken flavor are all under 10 carb. All these companies will send you a free sample if you ask. Still the best foods are wet, but these are better than the purina.

 

[JanetNJ]

Is this one of the foods you mentioned?

https://www.petco.com/shop/en/petcostore/product/dr-elseys-clean-protein-chicken-dry-food-for-cats

Yes. That one is 5-6% carb. It's a bit cheaper on chewy.com. Do try wet food.

To answer your other question. Hypo can happen at any time but is most likely with vetsulin 5-6 hours after injection.

 

[Beck and Philly]

Thank you, everyone. I'm going to take him for another curve on Tuesday so will ask again about diet and home testing. If I switch his food, how long would it take for him to get used to it before upping his insulin again and what's the lowest dose I'd have to switch him to? Also, are there people here that use dry food? I may try that and wet food as a treat since I'm not sure if he'll like it. Thoughts? So far he's seemed okay on 3 units but how soon after can hypoglycemia occur? I'm so stressed out about all of this.

I honestly wouldn't ASK about diet and home testing. I would make the changes sooner rather than later.

Home testing is easy and avoids the need to send kitties to a stressful vet for curves. You can do it at home.

My vet insisted that I only feed Grandpa twice a day and that I only use Rx food. I read the guidance here and I went back and questioned the vet. I was strongly told that the Rx dry was perfectly formulated for diabetic cats. Grandpa started vomiting. Folks here told me to feed only wet <10%carb food and to feed more often. If I hadn't made the changes my cat would not be alive.

Now my favorite vet will study Grandpa's spreadsheet of home tests and tells me that he's only alive because of the care he's getting... the care the diagnostic vets advised against.

 

[Rardito]

I honestly wouldn't ASK about diet and home testing. I would make the changes sooner rather than later.

Home testing is easy and avoids the need to send kitties to a stressful vet for curves. You can do it at home.

My vet insisted that I only feed Grandpa twice a day and that I only use Rx food. I read the guidance here and I went back and questioned the. I was strongly told that the Rx dry was perfectly formulated for diabetic cats. Grandpa started vomiting. Folks here told me to feed only wet <10%carb food and to feed more often. If I hadn't made the changes my cat would not be alive.

Agree with this. Kitty needs to get off the dry food and on to low carb wet food as soon as possible. And home testing needs to start immediately so you can test before each shot to see if it is the appropriate dose. You can look for videos showing how to home test and ask us if you need any advice!

 

[AFinn]

If I try to switch him to wet food, like Fancy Feast chicken, how much would I feed him for a 15 pound cat? And I would feed him more than just at his insulin times? I'm just worried about switching food and him not eating. Is it safe to drop their insulin back down after being on 3 units? I want to do what's right for him and am just so overwhelmed.

 

[Rardito]

If I try to switch him to wet food, like Fancy Feast chicken, how much would I feed him for a 15 pound cat? And I would feed him more than just at his insulin times? I'm just worried about switching food and him not eating. Is it safe to drop their insulin back down after being on 3 units? I want to do what's right for him and am just so overwhelmed.

A lot of us free feed, as they don't process food like a normal cat. We just pick up the food 2 hours prior to the blood test that occurs prior to the feeding/shot. I'll let someone else do more commenting on the feeding schedules, since I free feed and am not sure about how many calories per pound they need.

And yes you can go down in the insulin, it is much safer for a cat to have higher numbers than too low of numbers. Once you go to low carb food you will see the numbers drop, so 3 will likely be too high and could cause a hypo. Most people start at 1u twice a day and go from there. I think the general rule is to start at 1u and stay at that amount for 6 cycles and then adjust if necessary. There are others much more experienced than me so I will let them chime in!

It's overwhelming at first but trust me it gets way easier after a couple of weeks

 

[Beck and Philly]

There are others here much better qualified to answer dosage questions, but I think you can start lower and follow either the SLGS or TR protocol for adjustments.

I believe a rule of thumb is 20 calories a day per pound of desired weight. Grandpa was healthy at 12lbs so my goal is 240 calories a day. I feed him every four hours through the day with the largest meals at 6:30 AM and 6:30 PM. He goes through periods where he doesn't eat well, so if he seems really hungry I let him eat a little more.

There are so many options of low carb wet food, I hope you can find something that works. I was surprised that Petsmart has quite a few from the approved food list. You could sprinkle a little dry on top at first to help transition.

 

[AFinn]

Thank you. How many cans of FF do you feed your kitty? My kitty is 15 pounds and the vet would like him to lose a little weight. I've been trying to study up but am feeling so overwhelmed. If I give him FF before each insulin dose, could I leave out a low-carb food for him to graze during the day? I just don't want him to starve and want to do what's right for him.

welcome!
Ok so a few things.

1. The food you're feeding is 100% not ok for a diabetic cat. This food is somewhere in the range of 37-42% carb. It would be like a diabetic person literally eating cookies all day. It has very little meat protien and is a filler. However, before you switch to an appropriate diet you will need to drop your dose back down to 1, and learn to test at home... Which brings me to my next suggestions.

2. I get that paranoia about hypos. They are scary. Your number 1 tool against that is to home test your cat just like diabetic people do. You would never give insulin to a child without testing and the same goes for a beloved pet. I have a video in my signature showing how I test my cat CC at home. Please watch it. After the first couple weeks is not difficult unless your cat is very high strung or semi feral.

Testing at home is cheaper, more accurate, and less stressful than frequent vet visits.

3. Back to diet. The BEST choice is a low carb wet food such as fancy feast classic or Friskies pate. I feed fancy feast and Tiki cat. I will l link to the food list. You want to choose foods under 10 percent carb (under 7 is even better).


https://catinfo.org/docs/CatFoodProteinFatCarbPhosphorusChart.pdf

If your cat had always eaten dry and just won't go for it, there are better choices than what you're feeding. Young Again Zero carb (Youngagainpetfood.com), epigen 90, and Dr. Elsley's Clean Protein chicken flavor are all under 10 carb. All these companies will send you a free sample if you ask. Still the best foods are wet, but these are better than the purina.

 

[JanetNJ]

Thank you. How many cans of FF do you feed your kitty? My kitty is 15 pounds and the vet would like him to lose a little weight. I've been trying to study up but am feeling so overwhelmed. If I give him FF before each insulin dose, could I leave out a low-carb food for him to graze during the day? I just don't want him to starve and want to do what's right for him.

So the rule of thumb is about 20 calories per pound of ideal weight. So if your cat SHOULD be about 13 lbs, 13x20 is 260. Each ff can is around 90 calories, So that's about 3 cans. Yes you can leave food out, just no food at least 2 hours prior to the preshot test. Some find it easiest to use an automatic pet feeder. You could do a can in the morning, half a can mid day, a can in the evening and a half can at bedtime or overnight.

 

[AFinn]

Thank you SO much. This is helpful and I am completely overwhelmed especially since I'm not doing home testing yet and haven't changed his diet yet, either. I don't really know anyone who can provide support, so this site has been helpful. Just so worried about my cat because he's my best friend.

So the rule of thumb is about 20 calories per pound of ideal weight. So if your cat SHOULD be about 13 lbs, 13x20 is 260. Each ff can is around 90 calories, So that's about 3 cans. Yes you can leave food out, just no food at least 2 hours prior to the preshot test. Some find it easiest to use an automatic pet feeder. You could do a can in the morning, half a can mid day, a can in the evening and a half can at bedtime or overnight.

 

[JanetNJ]

Thank you SO much. This is helpful and I am completely overwhelmed especially since I'm not doing home testing yet and haven't changed his diet yet, either. I don't really know anyone who can provide support, so this site has been helpful. Just so worried about my cat because he's my best friend.

Believe me we all know how you're feeling. Just watch, in six months you will be helping a new person lost and confused. I promise it gets easier and all becomes routine.

OK so something that you can do now is create a signature so we have basic info always there and don't have to ask the same questions repeatedly.

Click on your name at the top right corner and choose signature. Add info such as your pets name, age, date diagnosed, insulin type, food you're feeding, meter when you get it, and any other health concerns or supplements.

 

[Bron and Sheba (GA)]

Hi and welcome to both you and Finn
You have been given great advice and I agree with what has been said.
What @Beck and Grandpa has said is true. I wouldn't bother asking your vet about the food and home testing. If he knew a lot about feline diabetes, he would have advised you to swap to low carb wet food and suggested home testing. A lot of vets do not know a lot about FD.
So if I were you I would
1. Go out and buy a human glucose meter. Walmart has the ReliOn meter and the necessary supplies to go with it. You will also need a box of lancets 26 or28 gauge, cotton balls to use to hold behind the ear when you test, and a box of extra test strips.

2. Learn to home test. Here is the link. Ask for help if you are having any issues with it. It may take a few days before you are totally successful....we have all been there!
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/hometesting-links-and-tips.287/

3. When you are able to home test (test before EVERYinsulin shot and about 4 to 6 hours later), I would REDUCE the dose down to 1 unit and then swap over to the low carb food. Home testing must come before you swap over to the low carb food to keep Finn safe.

4. Record all the BSL readings in the spreadsheet link here
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/fdmb-spreadsheet-instructions.130337/

When you next visit your vet you can tell him you are home testing the BSLs and have swapped over to the low carb food. Remember you are paying the vet bills and this is a partnership and the vet needs to listen to your contribution. Hopefully he will agree with what you have done.
We all worry about hypos but if you are home testing, you will be in control and be able to keep Finn safe.

 

[AFinn]

Is it safe to reduce the dose down to 1 from 3 or have to do it gradually?

Hi and welcome to both you and Finn
You have been given great advice and I agree with what has been said.
What @Beck and Grandpa has said is true. I wouldn't bother asking your vet about the food and home testing. If he knew a lot about feline diabetes, he would have advised you to swap to low carb wet food and suggested home testing. A lot of vets do not know a lot about FD.
So if I were you I would
1. Go out and buy a human glucose meter. Walmart has the ReliOn meter and the necessary supplies to go with it. You will also need a box of lancets 26 or28 gauge, cotton balls to use to hold behind the ear when you test, and a box of extra test strips.

2. Learn to home test. Here is the link. Ask for help if you are having any issues with it. It may take a few days before you are totally successful....we have all been there!
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/hometesting-links-and-tips.287/

3. When you are able to home test (test before EVERYinsulin shot and about 4 to 6 hours later), I would REDUCE the dose down to 1 unit and then swap over to the low carb food. Home testing must come before you swap over to the low carb food to keep Finn safe.

4. Record all the BSL readings in the spreadsheet link here
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/fdmb-spreadsheet-instructions.130337/

When you next visit your vet you can tell him you are home testing the BSLs and have swapped over to the low carb food. Remember you are paying the vet bills and this is a partnership and the vet needs to listen to your contribution. Hopefully he will agree with what you have done.
We all worry about hypos but if you are home testing, you will be in control and be able to keep Finn safe.

 

[JanetNJ]

Is it safe to reduce the dose down to 1 from 3 or have to do it gradually?

Yes. It's not something that needs to be weened down. It's a hormone, not a medication.