Newbie - 7/3 Charms AMPS 460, +2 413 , +4 383 +6 423, +8 418

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Sam and Charms

Member Since 2013
Hi Everyone, Charms and I are new to this whole diabetes thing. And both of us lack technical skills so please bear with us. Out of desperation we found this site. Started out on the general forum and got a tremendous amount of help and support so far. They suggested we post here. Charms has really high BG but is generally good overall. Does all the pooping, peeing , purring etc... He is a very demanding social cat, which has not changed. He is still very, very thirsty and very, very hungry. He really wants more food. We got off to a bad start , we are starting over here, following all the advice we are being given. We are both a little overwhelmed but doing are best. Just raised the insulin by .5 this morning. Let me know what you all think. I know that Charms SS is very sad, but hopefully with all your help we will be able to turn it around. The purple yesterday was our first bright spot , so far. Thank You - Sam
 
Re: Newbie - 7/3 Charms AMPS 460, +2 413 , +4 383

Hi,
Welcome to LantusLand.
Fresh starts are good. That is a harsh spreadsheet. I'm glad you are seeing the pinks today.
Paws crossed that Charms will keep sliding downward.
 
Re: Newbie - 7/3 Charms AMPS 460, +2 413 , +4 383

Welcome to Lantus Land!

Here's the link to your (long) thread on Health: http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=98726&p=1055538#p1055538

Just to recap since I found that thread on Health a bit dense in information (i.e., overwhelming):
  • Charms was tried on Prozinc and Humulin N with doses up to 6.0u with numbers still above 300;
  • There's no history of ketones;
  • Charms is eating low carb food (although sometimes sneaks some food - Epigen- from your other cats)

Given Charms' history, I think it will make sense to fast track his dosing. When you start Lantus, the dose of your previous insulin should also be taken into consideration. I seriously doubt that 2.5u is going to make a big dent in Charms' numbers. Barring my being wrong, I would consider increasing Charms' dose by 0.5u (like you did this morning) every 4 cycles until you see some movement in the numbers. I do see that you started to get at least one PM test like I had suggested several days ago. That's great!!

I'm not sure I understood the focus on ketones in your thread on Health. (I was skimming so I may have missed something.) Has harms tested positive for ketones?

Do you know if Charms may need a dental? Tartar and gingivitis may not be entirely visible and dental issues can keep BG numbers inflated.
 
Re: Newbie - 7/3 Charms AMPS 460, +2 413 , +4 383

Hi,
First thank you for the warm welcome!

To answer the questions : No Charms has never had ketones, but my vet has ony tested him by his breath, I have a very laid back country vet. On the other board , they are very concerned because I have never tested for ketones. I do check his breath also , but am told this is not reliable enough. Charms is eating very well and drinking a lot, but his numbers are still high , so how concerned should I be? There are no ketone meters locally , only urine strips , not sure how successful I would be with those. I have 11 cats and 12 litter boxes. The BG testing itself is taking its toll. What are your thoughts?

Just had Charms teeth checked and vet said they are fine. I think we have not had success with the Lantus so far because I started Charms on June 20th but did not join this message board until the 28th, and possibly my vet was encouraging me to up the dose in 1u increments too fast. He was not familiar with Lantus. Let me know what you think. Thank You Sam
 
Re: Newbie - 7/3 Charms AMPS 460, +2 413 , +4 383

Sam and Charms said:
...There are no ketone meters locally , only urine strips , not sure how successful I would be with those
Click to expand...
Hi Sam! Welcome to our Lantus family. I'm Kat, mom to Gobbles (who went OTJ about 1.5 months ago) who is an 11 year old neutered gray tabby. He was diagnosed in November of last year and had his last shot of insulin on May 16th of this year. I seriously don't know where Gobbles and I would be had it not been for the members of FDMB, the kindness and support I've received, and the ongoing education :-D Charms has a good chance at remission being on Lantus and following the Tight Regulation Protocol. The best advice I ever received? Patience :-D though it took me a good while to be patient :lol:

Can you buy the ketone strips and try? It is very important to get ketone tests--smelling the breath is not very reliable. It's quite simple to get a test in--can you catch Charms in LB peeing? If so, stick the test strip directly into urine stream and then wait the allotted time on the bottle (usually 15 seconds) and read the test result.

Good luck and have a blessed fourth :mrgreen:
 
Re: Newbie - 7/3 Charms AMPS 460, +2 413 , +4 383 +6 423, +8

Testing for blood ketones is just like testing for blood glucose with one exception -- the blood ketone strips cost about $1 per strip. Unless you can isolate Charms with a litter box or stalk your kitty to the box, given the size of your furry family it will be a challenge.

I asked about ketones because it was a central topic in your thread on Health. Ketone testing is a good preventative measure but it's not mandatory. When it is important is if you have a cat that's had an episode of diabetic ketoacidosis (DKA) or is prone to developing ketones.

To be honest, I'm less concerned about the 1.0u increases in Lantus than I am with getting Charms at a dose that brings his numbers down. I strongly suspect it's going to be more insulin than he's getting now and it may even be closer to the 6.0u you worked your way up to with the other insulins. What I would urge you to do is stick with us. We've worked with cats who don't seem to respond to low doses. We'll get Charms there.
 
Re: Newbie - 7/3 Charms AMPS 460, +2 413 , +4 383 +6 423, +8

The possibility of ketones was a concern because it was mentioned by Sam that Charms was not eating much.
 
Re: Newbie - 7/3 Charms AMPS 460, +2 413 , +4 383 +6 423, +8

Welcome to Lantus Land! The guys here should be able to help you get these numbers down fast..good luck!
 
Re: Newbie - 7/3 Charms AMPS 460, +2 413 , +4 383 +6 423, +8

Welcome, welcome, welcome. My Dusty was recently switched to Lantus. He has been on it for just over 1 month now.
He was up to 10u of Prozinc twice a day and he didn't register on my meter except for it to say HI (which means his BG was over 600).
One of his vets (he has 2), vet H. had me start Dusty off on the Lantus at 1u. It didn't touch the HI mark. The dose was raised,
still nothing. I went and had a talk with both vets, Vet H wanted to raise him slowly, Vet C told me to raise him 2 more u.
I discussed all of this with the folks here on FDMB. After raising, raising, raising, he ended up on 7u which was close to the
dose in the Prozinc he had been taken off of. Giving the 7u for several days, Dusty's resistance to the insulin finally broke.
Please don't misinterpret me here. I am not saying to raise Charms to 7u. I do agree with Sienne that you should raised the dose though.
Have you read the "Sticky" regarding the use of Lantus at the top of the Lantus board? I can tell you, Lantus builds up
in the cat's body. Some call it building the shed. Well, Dusty's shed built and he finally came down. The down
picked up speed and I had to watch him carefully. His built by somewhat following the Lantus guidlines.
Humph, if you look at his BG we got a little confused as to when his dose should be upped. I wasn't going fast enough at one point.
When he began to come down, of course the main thing I noticed was that his BG level was actually registering a number on my meter
instead of saying HI but I also noticed things like, he wasn't as hungry or thirsty and he also wasn't visiting
his litter box (LB) as often. See Dusty's SS.
He is now hanging out on 3u twice a day, but it took the guidance of the folks here to get him there.
I was also given the request of purchasing the Ketone strips. I did and I've managed to test Dusty 2 times.
His vet has tested him 2 times (he had a UTI) going on when he was first switched to Lantus.
He remains negative for ketones. Testing is not an easy task. I have to pay very close attention to when Dusty is heading to the LB and grab a
test strip. Once he is in the LB and has started peeing I can usually quietly slip in and stick it under the stream. Dusty is a very
private kittie with the LB though. His LB is in my mud room/laundry room. He's fine about coming in when someone
is already in there, but any other time (when no one is in the mud room/laundry room) you can see him mosey that way looking
around him the entire time (to me he's looking around checking to see if anyone is paying attention to where he's going). Sneaky, Sneaky.
Anyway, he's the only kittie I have and I know how difficult it is for me to test, but perserverence will pay off.
I don't know if you've already purchased ketone test strips or not. I didn't even know where to get them. I thought I was
going to have to ask his vets.
The strips don't cost too much, you can find them at your local drug store (they are human strips) and work well for kitties.
Like I've said, I've only managed to test Dusty 2 times, but it has eased my mind to know he isn't passing ketones.
Good luck, keep asking questions here and have a Happy and safe 4th of July.
 
Re: Newbie - 7/3 Charms AMPS 460, +2 413 , +4 383 +6 423, +8

dustyboy4 said:
...Testing is not an easy task. I have to pay very close attention to when Dusty is heading to the LB and grab a
test strip. Once he is in the LB and has started peeing I can usually quietly slip in and stick it under the stream. Dusty is a very
private kittie with the LB though...
Click to expand...
In Gobbles' case, I found testing for ketones to be real easy; Gobbles would take a pee or dump in his LB in front of 100 people and not blink an eye :lol: Nothing private about him; the boy has no scruples :lol: . I usually got 3-4 tests in per week, and usually every day when he was somewhat high. He pees (usually) like clockwork: usually after a big meal, so that's when I'd watch for him going to his LB. A few times, when I was flipping out because I hadn't checked him for a few days, I would physically pick him up, place him in his LB and take his paws to dig a hole....worked pretty good. Also, since I did and do add water to all his food, he peed/pees more frequently.
 
Re: Newbie - 7/3 Charms AMPS 460, +2 413 , +4 383 +6 423, +8

Welcome to LantusLand! You, and Charms will get the hang of it here, and after many trials and errors, you'll find out what works best for him, and what doesn't. Good luck! You WILL get there. Just keep doing what you're doing.
 
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