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wubby379

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Hey all,
New to the board-my cat (a six-year-old female) just recently got diagnosed with diabetes. We caught it really early :) I took her in because she had been peeing outside of her litterbox a lot recently. After trying numerous boxes/litter/locations, I took her to the vet to see if she had a UTI. They found glucose in her urine and then did a bloodtest to confirm and check on her internal organs. She was diagnosed with a mild form of diabetes and the only real symptoms she is displaying is peeing outside of her box and a slight increase in water intake (hence the peeing). The vet wants to try and regulate her with diet. Reading on here, I know a lot of people do not like dry/prescription cat food. However, I am in graduate school and also work full-time-which leads to little time and money. I would like to get her diabetes regulated with food and not have to use insulin. As of now, I have been free-feeding her prescription D/M dry food and then giving her wet cat food throughout the day. So far she loves the wet cat food, and will eat this before the dry. She only has been diagnosed for a couple of days so I am still trying to get a routine down. She did not like the freeze dried shrimp I got her so I need to find a new treat. A couple of questions, how bad is it to have her freefeed dry food when I am at work or school-I feel like I like having it out so she can nibble throughout the day to keep her insulin steady. She is a good eater-does not binge only eats until she is full. She is also not overweight-she is 8lbs which the vet says is healthy for her build. It is odd that she developed diabetes as she does not have the classic markers of a diabetic cat (i.e age, gender, weight). Also, what else can I use for treats-prediabetes I would occasionally (1-2x a month) give her small pieces of bacon which she loved-sinc bacon is high protein low carb is it okay to use occasionally? I know it is not good for her heart. What about wet tuna? She does not like fresh chicken, or fish. I really want to get this in line with food so we don't have to go to insulin so I want to make sure I am doing this right-any help is appreciated!!
 
The key to diet management if finding something she like (don't over feed) that is high protein and low carbs. I am also no longer a fan of dry food but I do foster some that will not touch wet. I have one that wont even eather dry food if there is any wateror tuna juice in eat. Needless to say my personal opinion is that wet food not only helps in with current medical problems but will also lessen the likelihood of other problems in the future. A lot of people here advocate certain fancy feast wet food for theirsugar kitties. I would recommend you look in to that.

Unlike dogs, kittys' eat to survive and not survive to eat. If your kitty is displaying signs of hunger it is because her bloodglucose isn't regulated. It is ok to leave out some extra we food until she feels better... Me though I would steer clear of the dry food or any other treats until she her BG is under control. Also make sure you leave out lots and lots of water for her.

Good luck
 
Hi and welcome to the board,

I also no long have much nice to say about dry food. I can understand the money being tight, because like you I'm a college student with only my husband working right now. Plus we have 10 cats (only 1 diabetic) and a large dog. My diabetic guy went into remission eating whatever one else eats here, just good old pate flavors of Friskies and 9-lives.

I free feed them their canned I just add a little water to the canned food so it stays moist throughout the day. As far as treats go, I found one at Wal-Mart my entire gang dearly love, they are sold as dog treats but they are pure chicken or duck jerky. Both my kids go nuts for. They are sold under the brand name Waggin Train. I use kitchen shears to cut them into small pieces for the kitties.

But honestly I would try to steer her on to an all canned diet. Since the diet switch here even my civies have benefitted from the change. My one guy with allergies had his allergies go away, thus getting him off the pred. (he passed unfortunately due to a brain tumor). The rest have gotten some of the lovliest coats I have ever seen. They look like they have been professional groomed. After learning here what I have about dry food and seeing the changes in all 10 cats because of it, I will never feed another cat so much as a mouthful of dry again.

Congrats on catching it early and goo dluck on getting ahead of it with diet alone.

Mel, Max & The Fur Gang
 
Hi and welcome :)

Glad you caught things early, but....

1. diet change alone is often not enough
2. dry food isn't going to be enough. DM dry is a brutal food, in that the quality of ingredients are very poor. Even the vet who designed the canned food doesn't like it. I don't like the canned either, but it is an improvement over the dry. Why? Dry food is high in carbs, the DM contains a lot of poor quality proteins and ingredients, and dry food is dehydrating, which is bad for urinary and kidney health

Your best chance at success is a proper diet change AND a very low dose of insulin to start. This gives the pancreas the best rest and chance to recover. It doesn't mean you'll always have to give insulin (see my signature).

Jen
 
Here is a slightly different view of the situation. Knowing what I know now about diabetes, food, and home monitoring, I would find food off the lo carb list (found in the FAQ) that my kitty liked. I'd then take all the prescription food back to the vet or don't buy any more if you have used it up (cans can definitely go back). I'd then spend a few dollars on a meter and some strips and begin testing her blood glucose at home so I knew how well the diet change was controlling the diabetes.
Once the infection clears, it is possible that she won't be 'diabetic' any more. However, I think that it might be something that you need to monitor. I don't know if she might have the same reaction to other infections such as dental.

A glucometer can b purchased at WalMart in the US and 25 strips for quite a reasonable price (less than $50 I think). It gives you so much information in your program to manage your cat's diabetes - hopefully into remission.
 
I would disagree, on the basis that it might have been the glucose in the urine that caused the UTI in the first place. That said, it is correct that insulin needs could go down once the infection is treated, so you need to be cautious.
 
Insulin is very easy to administer as it is a subcutaneous injection. You just lift up a fold of skin, insert the very small diameter, short needle into the tented area, and gently push the plunger. The needle is so small, the cat barely notices.

Giving insulin may help the pancreas recover as it allows the pancrease to rest a bit.

The upfront cost of some insulins looks daunting, until you realize that (for example) 1 vial of Lantus is 1,000 units and a common dose of around 2 units twice a day means the refrigerated, gently handled vial may last 250 days.
 
Thanks to all that posted! I have purchased the fancy feast classic wet cat food and am experimenting with leaving the wet cat food out with water or chicken broth in it. She appears to like it-to clarify she did not end up having an UTI just the glucose in the urine. She actually has been doing well the past couple of days-only one accident outside of her box. Her vet didn't mention monitoring her sugar levels but I think I will do it. All the info is overwhelming and I am trying to educate myself. I actually think (based solely off my instincts) that her diabetes was brought on by her cat treats (was feeding her pounce cat treats). Her diabetes is only mild and she doesn't have blood in the urine, she still grooms herself constantly, wants to plays and snuggle, her coat is still soft and shiny, and eyes clear so I am really hoping diet changes help! I appreciate all the feedback have been really stressed about this!
 
If you would like hands on help with learning to home test her blood sugar, you can always post your general location and it is very likely we will have a member or two close by that can get you some in person help.

Yes, it is all very over whelming at first, but it gets much easier as it goes along.

By the way what's your's and kitty's name? We're a friendly bunch, and it just seems wrong to refer to your baby girl as she or her.

Looking forward to getting to know you and your baby girl.

Mel, Max & The Fur Gang
 
wubby379 said:
Hey all,
New to the board-my cat (a six-year-old female) just recently got diagnosed with diabetes. We caught it really early :) I took her in because she had been peeing outside of her litterbox a lot recently. After trying numerous boxes/litter/locations, I took her to the vet to see if she had a UTI. They found glucose in her urine and then did a bloodtest to confirm and check on her internal organs.
Click to expand...

Was a fructosamine test done? That is the test that confirms if a cat has diabetes or not.

wubby379 said:
She was diagnosed with a mild form of diabetes and the only real symptoms she is displaying is peeing outside of her box and a slight increase in water intake (hence the peeing). The vet wants to try and regulate her with diet.
Click to expand...


Diet alone rarely works for cats. If you want to try diet, give it no more than a week. And instead of the dry food, feed low carb canned food.

wubby379 said:
Reading on here, I know a lot of people do not like dry/prescription cat food.
Click to expand...


Prescription foods are full of junk-quality ingredients that really don't do anything. Vets push the foods because they know very little about proper nutrition.

Dry food in general is not an appropriate diet for cats. http://www.catinfo.org goes into details why and how dry food can cause all sorts of health issues, diabetes included.


wubby379 said:
However, I am in graduate school and also work full-time-which leads to little time and money.
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See this for tips on how to manage a diabetic cat on a budget: http://binkyspage.tripod.com/frugal.html


wubby379 said:
I would like to get her diabetes regulated with food and not have to use insulin. As of now, I have been free-feeding her prescription D/M dry food and then giving her wet cat food throughout the day. So far she loves the wet cat food, and will eat this before the dry.
Click to expand...

Well, your cat is smart :smile: The canned prescription food is better than the dry stuff but you can do a lot better by feeding a better quality and less expensive commercial brand of food. You can return the prescription food to the vet for a refund.


wubby379 said:
A couple of questions, how bad is it to have her freefeed dry food when I am at work or school-I feel like I like having it out so she can nibble throughout the day to keep her insulin steady.
Click to expand...

Dry food just keeps blood glucose levels high and works against the insulin. You'd need to give a pretty big dose of insulin to lower the blood glucose levels to a more healthy level if you feed dry food.

You can free feed canned food. Most people use a timed feeder to allow their cats small meals throughout the day.


wubby379 said:
Also, what else can I use for treats-prediabetes I would occasionally (1-2x a month) give her small pieces of bacon which she loved-sinc bacon is high protein low carb is it okay to use occasionally? I know it is not good for her heart. What about wet tuna? She does not like fresh chicken, or fish. I really want to get this in line with food so we don't have to go to insulin so I want to make sure I am doing this right-any help is appreciated!!
Click to expand...

Here a list of suggsted low carb treats: viewtopic.php?f=14&t=9172 There are other brands out there.

Cat grass and cat nip are also good treats. Treats don't necessarily have to be food. A brushing, a scratch behind the ears, a toy, etc are all good rewards.

wubby379 said:
Thanks to all that posted! I have purchased the fancy feast classic wet cat food and am experimenting with leaving the wet cat food out with water or chicken broth in it.
Click to expand...

Water is better. Chicken broth may contain garlic which is not good for cats.

Fancy Feast is a good choice. Here's the canned food charts if you want to look at how many carbs are in the food and what other brands might be good to feed: http://binkyspage.tripod.com/canfood.html

wubby379 said:
I actually think (based solely off my instincts) that her diabetes was brought on by her cat treats (was feeding her pounce cat treats).
Click to expand...

I doubt an occasional Pounce treat would have caused diabetes. Usually eating nothing but dry food for years will cause diabetes. Many popular brands of dry foods are really high in carbs :-Q If you want to take a look at how many carbs, see the dry food chart: http://binkyspage.tripod.com/dryfood.html

Pounce treats are high in carbs. I think the hairball one is like 40% carbs or something :shock: Many big name commercial treats are high in carbs. Freeze dried meat or fish treats are best.
 
It can be overwhelming, but you're on the right track. As for home testing, I learned a lot by watching the videos. Just search diabetic cat on Youtube, you're bound to find some good ones. Best wishes and welcome to the board. Everyone here is super helpful.
 
When I spoke with a different vet about my cat's diagnosis of diabetes, she said that blood in the urine may have been indicative of a UTI instead of diabetes so I would wonder for sure if the diagnosis is correct with your cat. Just a thought.

About the food - i used a timer feeder so that my cat could have some food in the middle of the day when I was not there. Just put some canned food in there, set the timer, and it is ready. Also if i was going to be late for the pm meal or would be gone for a period of time, I mixed up the canned food with a little bit of water and froze it in a container so that it would fit in the timer feeder.
 
Thanks All!! Something else I just noticed, Ali use to have blackheads on her chin. They weren't bad just kind of gross looking. I just always assumed it was from how she drinks her water.I got her a ceramic food bowl and a ceramic water fountain hoping it would help and it got a little better but never went away. After, eating a mostly wet cat food diet in the past 4 days-they have disappeared!! I mean it has only been 4 days but the only change has been her diet. Weird & Awesome! :)
 
The wet food is definitely the way to go. There was a person who was giving somewhere around 20u of insulin shots, but feeding only dry food. Once the dry was replaced with wet, the insulin needs took a nose dive down to something like 1u shots. Food makes an extreme difference if you have a cat who is very carb sensitive.

So, you can continue to leave the dry out, and end up having to spend the money you save on food for insulin and syringes and test strips, or you can go the low carb wet food way and maybe have yourself a diet controlled diabetic cat who needs very little or even no insulin.

I think home testing has already been mentioned - it would be a great idea for you to test Ali's blood sugar while you are making the food changes and keep track of the numbers you get and what times you take the test. There are plenty of things that can cause blood sugar to rise, so you have checked for infections with the vet, and now you can try the diet changes and see how it goes.

I am not sure what your vet meant by a mild case of diabetes - to me, that's like saying you are a little bit pregnant. I think you are or you aren't. Maybe it was something like a recently or newly diagnosed meaning not a long term chronic diabetic.

About the chin issue, there are some cats that have problems with plastics, so make sure all of Ali's food and water bowls are glass or maybe stainless steel. I use glass and corelle bowls for my cats; anything non-porous could be good. Diet as you have found can also clear up the problem.

The idea of an auto-feeder would be something that will set your mind at ease; several others who are away at work or school use a feeder to ration out food for the day, and you can even freeze foods in ice cube trays and put into the feeder if you worry about food going bad through the day.

Binky’s Food Lists
Feeding Your Cat: Know The Basics of Feline Nutrition
Petsafe 5-meal Auto Feeder

Let's hope that you can get Ali all fixed up with just a diet change and if not, she will be alot healthier.
Saving money by testing at home and you won't have to keep spending to go to the vet to check blood sugars.

Be sure to ask any questions you have; someone will be able to help you.
 
So I tried to test Ali's glucose last night-I pricked her ear three times :( and could not get any blood to pool-after three times she was done with me touching her head. I tried to warm her ear by rubbing it-she did not like the wash cloth by her head either. She was pretty patient with me all things considered-wondering if I should try her paw pad next? I have the Reli-on meter. I am kind of traumatized and don't want to keep poking her for nothing
 
Never think you are poking for nothing; you are making sure that it is safe to give the shot.

Don't feel too badly because in the beginning, it's tough as you both have to get used to it, and the ears DO 'learn' to bleed better.

Every so often I test my civvie to see how her numbers are doing... I had to poke Booboo's ears about 10 times before I just barely got enough for a test. She hates everything and everyone but she stayed put for the pokes and was no worse for wear.

Cats are pretty sensitive, so I am sure your feelings may have been getting picked up by Ali. You are upset, so Ali may get upset. Just take your time and you both will soon be old hands at it all.
 
That's great news! I also found several unexpected improvements when I changed to low-carb wet food including the disappearance of lifelong dandruff, not to mention a much more active and playful cat overall.

wubby379 said:
Thanks All!! Something else I just noticed, Ali use to have blackheads on her chin. They weren't bad just kind of gross looking. I just always assumed it was from how she drinks her water.I got her a ceramic food bowl and a ceramic water fountain hoping it would help and it got a little better but never went away. After, eating a mostly wet cat food diet in the past 4 days-they have disappeared!! I mean it has only been 4 days but the only change has been her diet. Weird & Awesome! :)
Click to expand...
 
Another question,
Since changing Ali's diet to wet food, her poo has changed color from a light brown to a dark brown - black color. Is this normal? She had her blood work and urine analysis done on Thursday and there was no sign of infection just the glucose.
 
I can't comment on the coloration but there is a 'poo chart' somewhere and I'll see if I can find it. Meanwhile, change in appearance and composition is totally expected given the drastic change in diet.

Jen
 
Ali Baby and her favorite way to sleep
 

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wubby379 said:
Ali Baby and her favorite way to sleep
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What a sweetie! I know my kids' poo got darker when we went wet... a lot of the dry foods have corn and other grains that are light in color going in, so will be light in color going out. Just my experience, though!

With the ear pokes, definitely use the rice sock starting out. I found it made a huge difference! Also, check the size of your lancets. I would go with a 30 gauge or larger (the smaller the number, the thicker the lancet). Switching even from a 31 to a 30 made a big difference for me. Willie now almost always gets a reading on the first poke, and we almost never use the sock... and it's only been two weeks!
 
I think I need to get bigger lancets. I have been using the ones that came with the reli-on strips. I poke her ear and get blood but it is never enough for the meter :(. However, Ali seems to be feeling a lot better. She ALWAYS sleeps in the same room as me and my husband. The past week she has been sleeping in the room next to her litter box. The past two days however, she has started to sleep in our room again, wants to go outside, and is getting into mischief (e.g. she managed to unwrap two Christmas presents). I have never been so happy in my life to see her causing trouble!! I think Christmas came early this year for me- I have been so stressed and it is such a relief to see her feeling better. I noticed one of her poops had a huge amount of fur in it- doing research on it- it seems to be normal but can cause digestive problems- after the poop she seems to be feeling better.I don't know if it was getting that out or the new diet that is making her better. I am just glad that she is happy!
 
The couple of things that really seem to help are (and not necessarily all at once!) warming the ear which you are already doing, a very thin coat of vaseline to help the blood bead up and not disappear into the hair, 'milking' the ear after you have poked. And poke as though you are serious - one serious poke is less annoying to moost cats than several little pricks. If you go through the ear, its not a big deal. I usually use a cotton make-up remover pad and fold ove rhte ear and hodl pressure for a few moments. This way, I get both sides if I've gone through. You two will be old pros in no time.
 
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