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ecioch

ecioch

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Hello. I am new to this site. Pls bear with me while I learn...I have an 8 yr old cat (named Mister), sometimes we call him Mither...
He has newly developed diabetes. I brought him three weeks ago and we started insulin (4 units, twice daily)...I brought him back
last week for check up and his sugar was 530 something...so we upped his insulin to 6 units and to my dismay this week his sugar
was even higher!!!(even after we upped his insulin)...it was 570 something. Thank Goodness we upped his dosage.
I guess I'm looking for support, as I am so scared that I am going to lose my Mither! confused_cat
 
Actually, upping the dose may have been exactly the wrong thing to do.

4 units as a starting dose is way too high. Most cats are started on 1 unit 2x/day.
Most cats are regulated on 1-3 units 2x per day.

By starting too high, you may have already passed the correct dose and are experiencing
'rebound'. That's when too much insulin is given, and the liver tries to protect the body
by dumping its reserve of glycogen into the bloodstream. Then the BG will read high.

Sooner or later the liver will run out of reserve glycogen and the BG will crash dangerously low on
such a high dose of insulin.

The high starting dose make me very worried that your vet in not knowledgeable about
treating diabetes in cats. Many cats are stressed at the vet, which in itself can
make the BG 100 or more points higher than it would be in the cat's home environment.

Some questions we need answered in order to help you best:

What insulin are you using ? (Pro Zinc, Lantus, Levemir, other )
What are you feeding ?
Are you home testing ? We can help you learn to home-test.
Where are you (city , state) in case we have a member near you to help you.
 
Hi. Thank you so much for your quick reply. I live in Frankfort, New York and I go to Mohawk Valley Veternary Clinic.
I am so new to this diabetes that I really don't know. I just am so scared that I am going to lose my beloved cat.

They did not mention testing at home. They want to regulate it first.
I did not know that is alot of insulin to give. I have no clue.

Please advise me what to do. Right now I just have to bring him back next week for a recheck. (And keep an eye on him. I have Karo syrup handy, just in case)

Thank you so much for your help.
 
Welcome to FDMB! You are in the right place for support & tons of knowledge. All you have to do is read & ask questions. You are going to get tons of help & get Mister on the right path to feeling better very soon.

What you are feeling right now is normal. We have been right where you are & felt the same way. I was heart broken when I found out Baxter had FD. I thought I was going to kill him with insulin. I couldn't sleep. I didn't want to leave my house. With time everything got better. I learned so much from becoming a member & reading anything & everything about FD. I would suggest you take some time & visit this website it's very informative about feline diet & feline health. www.catinfo.org.

What kind of diet are you feeding?
What insulin are using? Oh my..the dose you are adminstering is a lot. Memebers like to start out low & slow.

Everything is going to be ok.
Jenn & Baxter cat_pet_icon
 
Welcome, Mister and (What shall we call you? ;-) ) -

I can echo the sentiments of being scared and anxious and guilt-ridden and... and... We didn't even know cats could GET diabetes until Hershey was diagnosed in Nov, 2011. We came home and immediately started researching. We found this site and switched him from dry to canned food. He wasn't on insulin yet - please don't change food once you've started insulin until you are home-testing!

We found this site and started asking questions...and questions...and - well, you get the idea. We quickly made lots of good friends here who care about our kitties and freely share what they've learned to help us take care of our babies!

I spoke with my vet about home-testing and was led to believe it really wasn't necessary. I can't emphasize enough how important it is to home-test! Hershey has hypo'd a few times with no symptoms, so I wouldn't have known if I hadn't been home-testing. Scary thought! His first two hypo's were on 1u.

I spent lots of time reading and looking at people's SS (spread sheets) and still do a lot of that. I feel like the more I learn, the more I realize how much I don't know.

Sorry if I missed it, but did you say what kind of insulin you use?

Again, welcome! We look forward to getting to know you -

Libby (and Hershey, too!)
 
Thank you so much to all who have replied...I forgot to mention his insulin is ProZinc...

Everyone has been super nice and reassuring to me.

I did give Mister the 7 units tonight and I'm watching him and he is acting fine. How soon would a reaction occur?
 
ecioch said:
Thank you so much to all who have replied...I forgot to mention his insulin is ProZinc...

Everyone has been super nice and reassuring to me.

I did give Mister the 7 units tonight and I'm watching him and he is acting fine. How soon would a reaction occur?
Click to expand...

OK welcome to the site, and the very first thing I will say is that you are giving more insulin than most diabetic cats EVER need. That high a dose could cause him to go hypo, so here are some links with info.....PLEASE READ!
List of Hypo symptoms
How to treat HYPOS-They can kill! Print this out!
Jojo’s HYPO TOOLKIT

Now the next thing I will ask is what food are you feeding Mister?
If you are feeding all dry food, that dry food is very bad but it may be what has saved Mister from having a hypo already from that dose.
here are some food links. Binky's is one list that tells you the carb contents... stay below 10% but do NOT change food before cutting that dose down to something like 2units twice a day!
Binky’s Food Lists
Feeding Your Cat: Know The Basics of Feline Nutrition
List of Low Carb Healthy Treats

Next, pick up a meter for testing Mister's BG .... the Relion is the most economical meter and test strips. Also pick up a container of KETOSTIX so that you can test his urine for ketones.
here is another link for you:
Testing on cat’s ear

Now, please don't feel badly; I never even knew cats could have diabetes! And I was feeding my cats all dry food like most people, with even vets pushing dry food on people to feed their pets, so how would you know.

Please ask any questions you have and keep a close eye on Mister; that's way too much insulin for any cat unless the cat has an insulin resistance condition.
 
I use Prozinc. Ok..7 units of ProZinc is a lot. I don't want to alarm you. 2 things could happen...
1. He could hypo. Which you said you had your hypo kit right. Without home testing you might not know. Until its to late & you need to rush him to ER vet. I will warn you it will be costly & he could stay in there for a couple of days.
2. The cycle could go flat because it's way to much.
How long ago did you give him 7 units? What time?

I want to suggest right now. Get to Walmart & purchase the Relion human BG monitor. You will need to buy some testing strips too. You need to start hometesting ASAP. I know I don't know your vet, but I am going to say this....he is wrong you need to be hometesting. What if Mister pancreas decided to start working & you injected insulin into a normal range of BG. You could end up in a hypo state. Sometimes hypo doesn't always show signs of symptoms until its to late. There are YouTube videos to show you how to home test. Watch a couple & start testing.

Keep in mind once the insulin is in you can't take it out.

Come on over to the PZI insulin support board. Everyone will help you with dosing.

What kind of food are you feeding?
 
Hi, thank you all for your replies...I am feeding Mister Purina One dry food. (This is what my old vet suggested, as I cannot afford Imes or Science Diet)

I injected him 7 units around 7:30 ish tonight and he seems to be fine.

I am going to pick up what you suggested for testing at home tomorrow. What should I be looking for when reading his test strip?

Thanks again
 
Most people just feed fancy feast or friskies pate wet foods.
Even special kitty from walmart or 9Lives are decent, just stay away from the gravy flavors... i am sure that Mister may love the gravies, but the carbs are in the gravies. You don't need to feed any expensive wet foods. Sure some are better than others, but even the above ones are tons better for a diabetic cat than any dry food you could ever feed.

But please, do NOT change to the wet food until you lower that dose. I think I would cut that dose in half anyway... then start home testing and see what the insulin is really doing.

Cats are pretty secretive; they don't stand up and let us know if they feel like crap, or if the insulin you are giving is making their blood sugar drop really low. Sadly, it's sometimes too late when a dose is too high. The high numbers are bad, but the low ones can send you to the ER with a hypo cat.
 
What is your name?

Ok so injection at 7:30....nadir is the lowest point of what insulin brings BG to. Nadir (the lowest point) can happen anywhere between 4-7 after injection. Some cats nadir later. Please, please keep a eye on Mister tonight. Please read the links Gayle included. They are going to help you especially if you find yourself in a hypo situation.

Diet-FD is very similar to human diabetes. Meaning you want to feed a low carb, high protein diet.
Dry food is high carb. In comparison high carb human food would be pasta, bread starchy food, sugar food. A human diabetic should stay away from those types of food. Felines should to which would be dry food. Felines do best with a carb count of 10% or less. This can be found in canned food. Actually, you don't need to feed SD or Iams. Many members feed fancy feast....low carb, high protein. Since you already have Mister started on insulin you are going to have to slowly transition the canned food in. Once you take the dry food away you will see BG number lower. Once you start getting rid of the dry you will want to lower the dose of insulin.
Together the insulin & transitioning out dry food could really bring down BG. So it's important to lower the dose while you are doing this.
While you are doing this I suggest you come over to PZI to help you with the right dose.

Normal feline BG is 80-120.
So anything higher is consider diabetic. Anything over 278 is consider in the thershold.
300 is high & you should start testing for ketones.
400 is very high. Still need to test for ketones.
500 is dangerous! Diffently need to be testing for ketones.

80 & lower. I would say when you get around the 60 & lower range it's can be dangerous & hypo can occur. Some cats tend to be lower, but aren't on insulin. No insulin in the body, no hypo.

I know this is so overwhelming. You can do this. Just read & read. The more you read the more head of the game you will be become. The better you can do for Mister.
 
ecioch said:
They did not mention testing at home. They want to regulate it first.
I did not know that is alot of insulin to give. I have no clue.
Click to expand...


Well, you can't regulate blood glucose levels without daily blood glucose testing :roll: Shooting insulin blindly into the cat without knowing what the blood glucose levels are is dangerous, especially with a huge dose of 7 units.

As others have said, dry food keeps blood glucose levels too high and is not good for a diabetic cat. But don't change the diet right now. Learn how to test blood glucose levels, then lower that insulin dose. Then change the diet to low carb canned food.
 
Welcome! My sister and her family lives in Canojaharie, so I've been in your neck of the woods before. :-)

If you get the lower carb Special Kitty (Walmart) or Sophistacat (PetSmart) in the 13 oz cans, it's actually cheaper than feeding Purina One dry food. Cats don't need to eat as much canned food because it's more digestible--half of what they consume in the Purina dry is pooped right back out. You'll also be saving money on kitty litter for the same reason. But as others have said, make sure you cut the dose down to 1-2u and are hometesting before you make the switch to canned food. The super high dry food is what is likely keeping your cat alive on that high dose. Removing it without lowering the dose can cause a deadly hypogycemic episode, if one hasn't occurred already. The only way to know how the insulin is affecting your cat is to home test. Go to Walmart and get a Relion Confirm or Micro meter and some test strips--it's a good meter and the test strips are inexpensive. Also, if you're home testing you don't have to spend any more money on blood testing at the vet, which is too inaccurate due to vet stress and infrequent to be helpful.

A agree with everyone else that 7u is WAY too high a dose, and unfortunately, your vet does not seem to know what he/she is doing. You can't regulate a cat without daily home testing.

Here's a link to the AAHA guidelines: http://www.aahanet.org/PublicDocuments/AAHADiabetesGuidelines.pdf. They state the max starting dose for a very large cat should be no more than 2u. I would print them out to give to your vet.
 
Ecioch & Mister...how are things going?

Were you able to get a meter? Have you ran a test? What was the number?
Lower the dose to maybe just 1 unit until you start getting some test results. Most ProZinc cats only need about 1 unit. Baxter is on .3 & some times .4 units. That is not three units it's point three units. We started on 1 unit over time he has needed less.

Give us a update when you can.
Jenn & Baxter cat_pet_icon
 
Please, watch your kitty closely but do not panic. My Poto was stated on a dose of 5 units once a day and within the next few months incresed to nealy 9 units twice a day. I'm sure its the extra carbs he gets in the Purina One, especially after what I have leaned here. The past 2 years he has gotten 7 units twice a day and until the past few days,I was unaware of how to test him at home. Since I have found is site, I am Home Testing, slowly getting him off Purina One and strictly on Friskies Pate. This week the Vet had me decrease his insulin to 6 units. These folks certainly seem to be helping.
Hang in there....
Hugz,
Carol
 
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