new to vetinsulin

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ESM

ESM

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Norton was diagnosed about 2 months ago and put on gradually increased dose of Vetinsulin, presently on
2 units every 12 hours. His fructosamine level done at 1 month was extremely high, but the second one from
last week was within normal limits. He has developed in the past 2 weeks a pattern where his glucose is in
the mid 20's in the morning, gets his 2 units. Twelve hours later his glucose is between 5 and 8 and I have
not been giving him any insulin because I'm worried about his glucose going too low. His eating pattern is
very stable, his weight is stable and generally he seems to be doing OK. I'm wondering if anyone else has
experienced this kind of pattern and may have a suggestion for me.Thanks
 
Hello and welcome. I don't have enough knowledge of Vetsulin to help you with dose except for the fact you should not be skipping shots.

Are you home testing? It is the best way to know how it's working for Norton. You might need to lower dose a wee bit so you have 2 shootable numbers.

It's a holiday weekend so board might be a little light on people answering. Hang tight, They will be along.

Also post in the main form thread as more people will see it there.
 
Hello!
It definitely sounds like Norton might be getting a bit too much insulin. Paula is absolutely right in that you should try to find a dose you can safely give both am and pm. I know that has happened to my Lou previously. I had to lower the dose so he could get insulin twice a day. Vetsulin is a pretty fast-acting insulin, usually bring a kitty's blood glucose to it's lowest point around 4-6 hours after the insulin shot. If you are testing Norton's blood glucose at home, do you have a list of the numbers? How often do you test?
 
If it’s too much, lower to 1.5. Are you home testing? Do you have a spreadsheet or log you could share? We have a great template we use here if you’re interested. (You’ll see links to our spreadsheets in our signatures below.)
 
Thanks for all your replies. I am home testing every 12 hours before his next insulin is due. I do track the values but do not have a spreadsheet yet-will try to set that up. Presently his values are in the mid 20's in the morning and 12 hours
later are at 8 to 12 aproximately. I spoke to the vet today and she is on board with the idea of lowering his dose so that he gets some insulin every 12 hours. Will try this and thanks again for your help
 
ESM said:
Thanks for all your replies. I am home testing every 12 hours before his next insulin is due. I do track the values but do not have a spreadsheet yet-will try to set that up. Presently his values are in the mid 20's in the morning and 12 hours
later are at 8 to 12 aproximately. I spoke to the vet today and she is on board with the idea of lowering his dose so that he gets some insulin every 12 hours. Will try this and thanks again for your help
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Try to get a mid cycle reading when you can. Vetsulin usually peeks 4-6 hours after the injection. Dosing of vetsulin should be based on the nadir (lowest point).
 
I will try to get that reading as soon as I can. Right now I feel like I need to do pretesting before every dose of insulin and Norton is becoming increasingly resistive to each test. The testing is getting easier with practice and
thank you for the video - found it helpful.
 
ESM said:
I will try to get that reading as soon as I can. Right now I feel like I need to do pretesting before every dose of insulin and Norton is becoming increasingly resistive to each test. The testing is getting easier with practice and
thank you for the video - found it helpful.
Click to expand...
Oh you DEFINITELY need a preshots test, but you need to see how low it’s going in order to know if it’s an appropriate dose or too much or too little.
 
ESM said:
I will try to get that reading as soon as I can. Right now I feel like I need to do pretesting before every dose of insulin and Norton is becoming increasingly resistive to each test. The testing is getting easier with practice and
thank you for the video - found it helpful.
Click to expand...
Try giving a low carb treat for each test... don’t give that treat any other time but for testing and he will soon associate it with treats and become more cooperative.
 
Norton's profile.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1no9kbIYCYDdBjj-OzNIHxxe0dbXuxcJCGJSnSWx2hOI/edit?usp=sharing

Not sure if you can see this but I did complete the spreadsheet - some difficulty getting it on this site.
Its been a really tough couple of days for Norton. Yesterday he started trying to "rip my leg off" and yowling+++for food which usually only occurs in the am when his sugars are high. Hopefully you can see the sheet and see that his sugar was
very low. It responded over the next couple of hours to feeding. Spoke with the vet who felt I should continue with the Caninsulin 2 units pm, which I did but was so worried about it dropping again I tested at midnight and it was OK.
Today has been brutal, hoping you can see the numbers to see that his sugar spiked at +2hrs and has only moved minimally over the next 4 hrs. Where yesterday his +6 was at 3, today it's 18???? I'm doing a glucose curve today in an
effort to try to understand what is happening with the insulin. Unfortunately I sometimes have to poke him more than once and his poor ears look terrible. I am trying the polysporin ungt as in Janet's testing video. I really really hope
you can see Norton's spreadsheet and hope someone might have some insight. I am very confused and concerned about where this is going. My plan is to try and finish the glucose curve and give the results to the vet this evening.
Thanks
 

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ESM said:
Norton's profile.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1no9kbIYCYDdBjj-OzNIHxxe0dbXuxcJCGJSnSWx2hOI/edit?usp=sharing

Not sure if you can see this but I did complete the spreadsheet - some difficulty getting it on this site.
Its been a really tough couple of days for Norton. Yesterday he started trying to "rip my leg off" and yowling+++for food which usually only occurs in the am when his sugars are high. Hopefully you can see the sheet and see that his sugar was
very low. It responded over the next couple of hours to feeding. Spoke with the vet who felt I should continue with the Caninsulin 2 units pm, which I did but was so worried about it dropping again I tested at midnight and it was OK.
Today has been brutal, hoping you can see the numbers to see that his sugar spiked at +2hrs and has only moved minimally over the next 4 hrs. Where yesterday his +6 was at 3, today it's 18???? I'm doing a glucose curve today in an
effort to try to understand what is happening with the insulin. Unfortunately I sometimes have to poke him more than once and his poor ears look terrible. I am trying the polysporin ungt as in Janet's testing video. I really really hope
you can see Norton's spreadsheet and hope someone might have some insight. I am very confused and concerned about where this is going. My plan is to try and finish the glucose curve and give the results to the vet this evening.
Thanks
Click to expand...
So what is happening is called a bounce. It's his body's response from going so low. If it were my cat I'd cut back to 1.5 and see what happens.


Instead of attaching a off file, can you set up a signature and just make it a link?

Click on your name at the top right corner and choose signature. Add info such as your pets name, date diagnosed, insulin type and dose, food you're feeding, meter you use, and any other health concerns. Then you can also post the link to the spreadsheet.

@Kris & Teasel
 
Thank you - that makes sense to me. I think I will try that reduction.

Regarding the file, I will do my best to set it up as a link. I'll add more info as I become more familiar with the process.
 
ESM said:
Thank you - that makes sense to me. I think I will try that reduction.

Regarding the file, I will do my best to set it up as a link. I'll add more info as I become more familiar with the process.
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Youre doing great
 
I agree with Janet about reducing to 1.5 u to see if he'll settle. You can then increase from there in no more than 0.25 u increments (eyeballed on the syringe - best to have syringes with half unit marks for this but can be done without).

We all know how challenging this is, especially at the start when the two of you are getting accustomed to the "new normal". As Janet mentioned, your signature with basic information will be very helpful. Have a look at the light grey text under our posts to see what can be included. Click on your name in the upper right corner, then signature, then type in the box that opens and save it when you finish. Once you have your Google spreadsheet figured out you can put a link to it in that box of text. There are people on the forum who can help you with the spreadsheet if you need it.
 
Thanks. The fact that his sugar fell to 3 so suddenly on Wednesday scared me and it made sense about the bounce yesterday. I understand that making small changes and not frequently is the way to go, so it seems that trying 1.5 units for the next while is worth trying. This morning his sugar was 8.6 and in the past at this level I have withheld the insulin resulting in his next pre shot level being in the mid 20's but today I went ahead and gave him the 1.5 units. Will keep a close eye on him
especially around the +6 time and hope this works OK. For future reference is there a value at which you definitely withhold all insulin? Thanks for your support.
The spreadsheet is done and updated and I thought it could be viewed but maybe I'm wrong there?
 
ESM said:
For future reference is there a value at which you definitely withhold all insulin?
Click to expand...
We usually say around 200 for new people who don't have a lot of BG test results to go by. That number can eventually be reduced as you come to know your kitty's patterns. Your dose of 1.5 u this AM at a pre shot BG of 155 is good test for now. I don't think I'd dose below 150 just yet. Keep the 1.5 u dose for a few days, both AM and PM to see where he settles.
 
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Kris & Teasel said:
We usually say around 200 for new people who don't have a lot of BG test results to go by. That number can eventually be reduced as you come to know your kitty's patterns. Your dose of 1.5 u this AM at a pre shot BG of 155 is good test for now. I don't think I'd dose below 150 just yet. Keep the 11.5 u dose for a few days, both AM and PM to see where he settles.
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Typo, change that to 1.5 not 11.5. Big difference. Lol
 
Thank you for the advice. I'm pretty determined to stay with the same dosing for at least the next few days and will make a note of that 150
 
Have now read several articles, including on this forum, about different sites to inject insulin. Was taught the area essentially between the shoulder blades ?the scruff? and have always used this. Had no idea that this area may not have the
best blood supply to absorb the insulin, and maybe should consider using the sides more toward the back and the abdomen. Would love to hear your thoughts. Thank you
 
ESM said:
Have now read several articles, including on this forum, about different sites to inject insulin. Was taught the area essentially between the shoulder blades ?the scruff? and have always used this. Had no idea that this area may not have the
best blood supply to absorb the insulin, and maybe should consider using the sides more toward the back and the abdomen. Would love to hear your thoughts. Thank you
Click to expand...
Switch around. Keeps scar tissue from forming. My cat won't let me do the sides. Tried to eat me.
 
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I'm going to try switching the sites around and trying to move a little further from the scruff area. Will see how Norton tolerates that - don't want to cause him any added distress. The testing seems to be still pretty difficult for him.
Thanks for your response-it helps to know there's some support "out there":)
 
Hi..have been away for several weeks but Geoff has been doing AM and PM sugars. The numbers seem very random to me so we finally got our act together and did a glucose curve today. Norton has been generally OK but have had to add
a couple of protein snacks to try and keep his weight up. Not sure if this is the diabetes or his struggle with diarrhea. The recent course of metronidazole seems to have helped that a bit. Also he still seems to be hungry much of the day. Now looking at this curve and not sure what direction to go in - wondering about adding .25 units AM and PM ? Would really appreciate any suggestions. Thanks
 
We kept Norton on 2 units twice daily for the week and we never did get any blue so this morning very cautiously increased his dose to 2.25 units. We thought the +4,+6 and +8 numbers looked pretty good but then the +10
and PSPM sky rocketed. Not knowing what else to do I gave him only the 2 units this evening. Don't know what happened - could this be a bounce???? Looking back over his log we did see the occassional blue number when
he was getting only 1.5 units but very infrequent. Any suggestions would be appreciated. Thank you
 
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