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MOXYCAT!

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Hi...this is my first post of many...thanks in advance to those of you who respond! My Moxy will more than likely be diagnosed with diabetes tomorow afternoon..:(....been doing alot of reading on the subject but the injections is what scares me. like many cats she does not like to go to vets and get needles....she gets quite nasty!..my question...will i be able to give her the injections?...will she get used to it and start to accept it...or will she just be tough to treat? Thanks..Cory n MOXYCAT!
 
Welcome!
You will be fine and we will help you, can you tell us why you think your kitty has diabetes? and the vet said she was going to start using pzi? In the beginning it is a lot to take in and yes, you will learn to test and give shots. You sound as if you care and that's all it takes to learn. What is she doing that you believe it to be diabetes?

Nancy and Payne
 
Hi & welcome!!! The shots are super easy. The needles on the insulin syringes are incredibly thin - I don't think they even feel them. Once you get the hang of it, it's really easy. A lot of people give shots when they are eating and they don't even flinch, or seem to notice at all.
 
Hi COry,
Its good you found this site before you gt the diagnosis
There are so many wonderful and helpful people here that will guide you thru this
In the beginiing I though I coulnt do it either...Ihate needles and was scared to death
but we both got used to it and I am a pro now.
dont worry too much ahead, just take one day at a time and we will all be here for you
Good luck tomorrow and let us know what happens

Denise and Shakes
 
Hi and Welcome,

Diabetes is a very easy thing to manage. The early learning curve is a little steep but we can help you through it.

Let us know what you find out tomorrow.
 
Just wanted to say "Hi" and welcome you!

You will be fine and you have come to the right place for help.

Looking forward to your update tomorrow!

Kim and Kitty
 
WOW..thanks for all the replies! All of you make it sound easy! I will wait till she is properly diagnosed and go from there! All your comments sure put me at ease...i took her to the local vet last week and opted for a second opinion (he suggested putting her down). I think one of those vets without much knowledge on the subject and i stopped him from even taking blood. I travel with Mox 4 hours tomorow to get her the care she needs. Will fill you all in when we know. Cory n MOXYCAT!
 
The 2 biggest starting points I would say that make getting them regulated incredibly easier are switching them to low-carb canned food, and learning to home test. A lot of vets are not on board with either of those things, but from what I have seen with my cat and with tons of other cats here, those are the difference between struggling (high-carb and/or dry food) and putting your cat's life at risk (not home testing, and risking either dangerous high or low blood sugar).

I wouldn't worry too much about emphasizing those things with the vet - if they are on board that is great, but if they aren't, you can still make those changes at home and it doesn't affect their vet treatment. If they try to give you prescription foods though I would politely pass, and let them know you will be feeding low-carb over the counter foods like Fancy Feast (some varieties) or something else. I don't know if you have already checked out the food charts and feeding tips (try the Health Links forum if you haven't visited there yet), but there is a wealth of information around about what is best to feed diabetic kitties.

For home testing, there is a learning curve but it gets easy for many people once you get the hang of it. You can get tons of help here and on Health (I think there are some videos floating around, and lots of info about how to test, etc.), and if money is tight you can apply for a Newbie Kit where you can get a donated meter and some starter supplies.

Just keep asking whatever questions you have here and on the Health forum, and there will be people who can help you out!
 
MOXYCAT! said:
...i took her to the local vet last week and opted for a second opinion (he suggested putting her down).
Click to expand...

Well, thankfully you didn't listen to that vet! I can't believe he suggested that! Good luck tomorrow & keep us posted!

Barbara
 
Hi and welcome Cory & Moxicat.
Glad you are taking Moxi to another vet. Feline diabetes is manageable and your cat can still have a very good quality of life.
When my cat was first diagnosed, I was very frightened I would hurt him with the ear pokes to test his blood glucose and the needles for his insulin injections. I was very nervous, but it was surprisingly easy right away.
Just have the vet your are taking Moxi too to show you how to do the injection. Mine had me practice at her office with a dry syringe for practice to check my technique. There are links on the stickies on the board index about how to give an injection and ear poke. Also the ProZinc and BD websites have instructions and videos about giving injections.
The best thing you can do is wean your cat off dry food and onto some low carb varieties of canned food that are readily available and don't have to be purchased from the vet and are actually a lot lower carb that what they sell and much less expensive. There is a link to Janet & Binky's food charts on one of the stickies that lists carb content of various canned cat food that you can print out and take with you to the store.
Good luck at the appointment tomorrow!
 
Welcome!
MOXYCAT! said:
like many cats she does not like to go to vets and get needles....she gets quite nasty!..my question...will i be able to give her the injections?...will she get used to it and start to accept it...or will she just be tough to treat
Click to expand...

Welcome! I had the same worries at the beginning. And while Alex almost always meows or hisses when he gets his shot, it is just a little tiff and he soon forgets. So, if I can give the shot to Alex, you can give it to Moxie.
 
Trust Ginny!!! If she can give it to Alex, you will be fine with Moxy!!

Ask Ginny about the calming collar! :lol:
 
Hi everyone...so Moxy does in fact have diabetes. Her count this afternoon was 24. Im all set up to give her injections. The vet prescribed ..Caninsulin. The only thing i dont have is a meter. I will grab one in the morning along with the strips. I gave Mox an injection with just water and took a sample of blood from her ear with the vet. It was rather simple. The spot he showed me where to give the injection was what he called ...'the tent'. Is this where the majority of you give the injections? My other question...should i give Mox an injection tonite without being able to test her blood before hand to find out what 2 unit of insulin do given the fact her count earlier was 24 or should i wait till i can test first? Again..thanks for your replies...Cory n MOXYCAT!
 
I am confused. Her count was 24? I know you must not mean her blood glucose testing on the meter. That is a major hypoglycemic number and you wouldn't give ANY insulin. General rule is no insulin if blood glucose is under 200 for newbies or without enough data to know how your cat processes insulin and only experienced caregivers with data on their cat to give insulin between 150-180 blood glucose readings.
Have you checked her blood glucose level tonight?
I am not familiar with Caninsulin and how it works but someone else will be along to help.
Please don't give Moxi insulin tonight if her blood glucose is under 200 when you test since you are new to testing and giving insulin and please clarify the count of 24.
 
Just read your post again...please wait until you get the meter and test her blood glucose before you give her any insulin.
I don't know anything about Caninsulin but 2U seems like a little steep starting dose for a newly diagnosed diabetic cat.
With PZI/ProZinc they saying is start low/go slow around here. Most advise starting at 1U because you don't have any data and don't know what your cats reaction to the insulin will be and by giving too much to start with you can get into danger with low (hypoglycemic) numbers or have a rebound reaction by starting too high.
Please don't shoot insulin until you can test Moxi right before giving insulin and make sure to feed her either a few minutes before testing her blood glucose, or right after testing before you give her an injection.
 
No worries, Moxy is obviously in europe. 24 in US bg #'s is 432.

I would go ahead and give Moxy the insulin but I would only give 1unit.

What country do you live in?

Caninsulin is no longer used in the US because of potency problems. Is there any way your vet could prescribe a different insulin?
 
Hi and welcome! Perhaps there was a typo and you meant her BG (blood glucose) was 240? The BG range of a normal non diabetic cat is around 60 to 120. Caninsulin is not an insulin many here use. You could ask on the Health forum about it. It is always safest to test before administering insulin.
 
I am sorry Moxie has diabetes, but it is a treatable disease, and you can get lots of help here. We have very few people here using Canninsulin. It is a harsher insulin than the three most poular ones here- Lantus, Levemeir and PZI.

This forum has PZI users. There is a Canninsulin (called Vetsulin in the US) forum, but no one is active on it. I would suggest you post on the Health forum (viewforum.php?f=28)and mention Canninsulin in your title. The people who used Canninsulin are mainly in Europe and are most often on at night.

I assume you are in Europe or Canada because of the number. We use the US system, not metric, so you need to multiply by 17.
We would really encourage you to start on a low dose until your testing shows you how it is working. 2 units is a pretty high dose. We would prefer 1 unit twice daily.

When you look for a meter, pick one that sips and takes a small sample. The strips are the expensive part, but you can find them on bay. Many people here like the ReliOn meter from Walmart. It's the cheapest as are the strips. You also need lancets (25-27gauge) and a lancet device. When you post on Health, you will get lots of hometesting help.
 
The tent is the area of loose skin you pull up to inject the insulin into. You generally try to move the injection site a little every day (only has to be a little) so you are not using the exact same injection site each day to avoid a build of granuloma or thickened skin which prevents the insulin from absorbing as well. The flank, side or shoulder is where you would pull up the "tent" to inject. Avoid getting close to the spine. Some shoot in the scruff but that is not the preferred area and the insulin usually doesn't absorb as well there.
 
I am going to cross-post for you on Health - although some of us here have used Caninsulin, we are currently on PZI here, and I'm not sure if the Vetsulin/Caninsulin forum is even active anymore? It has been discontinued here in the US like Robin said.

Usually people post in U.S. numbers here (sorry!!!! lol). I think the international peeps may have a spreadsheet that does the conversion automatically.

I would NOT shoot 2u, that's a lot, and it's a faster acting insulin than some others, so less gentle and forgiving so to speak. I would start at 1u, only move up in no more than 0.5 increments. There are some stickies hopefully (? used to be at least) in the Vetsulin forum, so I would read those (assuming they are still there!).

I would recommend that you post daily in the Health forum for now. Many from here read that board as well, and there are others too who may be on your insulin and be able to give you more specific help.
 
Thanks for all the advice....I do live in Canada...the meter here definitly said 24. The vet did recomend 6- 12. Will definitly call him in the a.m. and not give any injections. I will try find the proper forum...Like i said in the subject line.....NEW TO THIS!...thanks again....Cory n MOXYCAT!
 
I thought it was 18 too, thus my math.

I think that there is a group of European beans that is overseen by Simon & Sam? that can help out with food choices and insulin. If you want a link, let me know.
 
Here is the sticky with Caninsulin general info, should be a good introduction if I recall: viewtopic.php?f=19&t=302

It looks like the last post in that forum was several days ago, so while you may want to post there in case others are checking, I would definitely post in the Health forum. There is almost always someone one Health, so you should have the best chance there I think of getting some responses.
 
Hi Cory and Moxy,
I used Caninsulin for over a year before switching to Levemir. I switched because it was impossible, due to the nature of the action of Caninsulin, to keep my cat in the target range that your vet gave you. If you have already bought the insulin and the syringes, lets try it for a while and see how it works for Moxy. (Just check one more time for us that your syringes say U40 on them). There have been several cats become regulated ok on Caninsulin, and at least one that no longer needs insulin. When I remember her name, I'll post a link to her spreadsheet.

If you put your location in your name, people will hopefully realize that you are giving numbers in world units, not US units. And to be even better, multiply your number by 18 and put in brackets eg PMPS 24 (432). It won't be long until you'll be set up with a spreadsheet and there won't be this confusion.

Great that you are testing. What are you feeding Moxy? Gradually removing all dry food and changing her to wet, lo carb will also make a big difference.
 
MOXYCAT! said:
Thanks for all the advice....I do live in Canada...the meter here definitly said 24. The vet did recomend 6- 12. Will definitly call him in the a.m. and not give any injections. I will try find the proper forum...Like i said in the subject line.....NEW TO THIS!...thanks again....Cory n MOXYCAT!
Click to expand...

Hey fellow Canadian!
I am usually lurking in the Lantus forum, but saw your post on health and wanted to wish you luck.
With the help of my vet, this site, and my wonderful glucometer, my cat Noxin now has a blood glucose range of 3-5, while being diet controlled and no longer needing insulin. It took me a while, but I got used to recognizing both the US blood glucose values, and the ones my glucometer gives me.
If you take a look at Noxins spreadsheet you can see that it can be switched from US values to Canadian by clicking on the WORLD link at the top.
I am glad to hear you didn't listen to that first vet who suggested putting your cat down! And it's great that your vet showed you blood testing and let you inject with saline (water) for practice. It sounds like you've got a great start!
 
MOXYCAT! said:
Hi everyone...so Moxy does in fact have diabetes. Her count this afternoon was 24. Im all set up to give her injections. The vet prescribed ..Caninsulin. The only thing i dont have is a meter. I will grab one in the morning along with the strips. I gave Mox an injection with just water and took a sample of blood from her ear with the vet. It was rather simple. The spot he showed me where to give the injection was what he called ...'the tent'. Is this where the majority of you give the injections? My other question...should i give Mox an injection tonite without being able to test her blood before hand to find out what 2 unit of insulin do given the fact her count earlier was 24 or should i wait till i can test first? Again..thanks for your replies...Cory n MOXYCAT!
Click to expand...
Hi Cory and Moxycat
I should warn you by saying it may seem like a ton of stuff to learn right upfront, but don't worry about that because there are a ton of people with experience here who can help you every step of the way.

I am also Canadian, living in Toronto with 2 diabetic cats but I grew up in Winnipeg. if you have any questions, just ask.

The insulin your vet is recommending is not the greatest but it's what the vets have in their offices for animals; I think it's not bad for dogs but not great for cats. We are lucky being in Canada and we don't need a prescription for insulin so you could just go to your local pharmacy and purchase an insulin such as Lantus or Levemir. My vet had me give my Shadoe Caninsulin when she was first diagnosed but she did quite poorly on it. I switched her to Lantus and she did better but later I switched her to Levemir and she is doing very well now. I think of Caninsulin as not quite lasting long enough ...
You will give shots every 12 hours but Caninsulin does not last that long, and so the last few hours before the next shot, Moxycat's numbers will be high again. You can try the Caninsulin as some cats are OK with it, but please get a meter and test strips first so that you can see how well the insulin is working or maybe not working. Also, most people start giving insulin at a lower starting dose, maybe 1u, and then if more is needed, you can increase the dose. Remember: You can always give more insulin, but you can't take back insulin if you give too much... better safe than sorry.

One thing that many people try first, before even starting insulin, is to change the cat's diet to low carb wet food and no dry foods. Alot of times the diet changes are all that's needed for the cat to be a diet-controlled diabetic.
there are plenty of good food choices so just refer to Binky's list and see what's available at your local stores, stick to 10% carbs or lower.

Binky’s Food Lists
Feeding Your Cat: Know The Basics of Feline Nutrition

You mentioned a test number of 24mmol/L which converts to 432mg/dL.. The meter you get at your drugstore will show your test results in mmol/L values but the people on this board post and understand the mg/dL values... that's why someone asked if you meant 240 instead of the 24. A common meter that many use is the OneTouch or Accu-Check or even Bayer Contour.... just look at what's available at your drug store and maybe even check with the pharmacist about availability of test strips.
there is a conversion chart on the old board or you can just multiply the number you get on your meter by 18. I am lazy so I made myself a chart that I'll give you.
BG Conversion Calculator

There are many additional contributing reasons for high BG numbers like that 24, not just diabetes, but also poor diet, illness, dental problems, and also stress. It is tough to go by the number at the vet .... my Shadoe tests higher at the vet office, and my Oliver tests lower at the vet office... they both stress differently.


You and Moxycat are going to be just fine. Pick up a meter at the drugstore, some low carb cans of food and start some home testing to see what Moxycat's numbers are while relaxed at home. Don't worry about the testing hurting .... my 2 cats sleep through the pokes on the ear. Start with a low dose of 1u, and see how it goes from there. No question should be unasked. To know the road ahead, ask the man coming back.
 
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