New to this world, need advice

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Rusty/Jen & Ernie

Rusty/Jen & Ernie

Member Since 2015
First of all, THANK YOU, this message board is simply amazing. My 1st post is over in the Intro section & details the back story on how we came to find FDMB. I want to lay out our current measures & see if we are started on the right track.

Initial suspicion on 7/13, DX confirmed on 7/20. Vetsulin started on 7/21, with a 6:30/6:30 schedule.

Current dose is 1u - 2x daily.

After studying this board for the better part of the past week, we have realized that we need to start home BG testing. So we are going to be picking up the Relion or One Touch mini. My wife is nervous about ear pricking, but she was also unsure about insulin injections & has already had to fly solo a couple of times. I myself, am an EMT, so it came naturally to me anyway. So until we get a meter & strips, I don't have any curve data to share. What I can tell you is that the week of 7/20 was spotty on him getting his insulin, he was still adjusting to eating the wet food on demand! He missed too many doses to be able to tell if the dosing had helped stabilize him. However, the week of 7/27, he was a trooper, missing only one dose. And had his 1st follow up on 8/1, his BG came back at 180 five hours after breakfast & his AM dose. So, we are off to a decent start, however, his body language tells me we aren't quite there yet.

Ketone test strips (Walgreens brand) are being used & the dip tests have been negative.

Primary meals (twice daily) have been switched to FF Turkey & Giblets Pate after reading through the board.

We have always been a free feed household, with dry kibble. He still nibbles on that throughout the day. And of course, with 2 other cats, we have multiple bowls in different spots. We have also deployed 2 waterfall style drinking fountains. The dry food, we are slowly switching right now to Simply Nourish Chicken & Turkey. I am not familiar with the brand, but it was high protein / low carb & grain free. As well as being free from red dyes & it seemed low in phosphorous. Is anyone familiar with the brand, is it a good option?

I know that free feeding dry food isn't the best option. But with 3 cats & a work schedule that takes us away from home from 7:00-7:00 until getting home around 5:30-6:00. We want to make sure that he has access to food as he needs it. And he is a grazer, so he really does eat small snacks throughout the day. On top of that, if he was to slide towards hypo, I want him to be able to be able to eat. Am I thinking wrong here, or am I making the best of a less than ideal situation?

Speaking of hypo, we have our supplies ready & wanted to bounce them off of the board & see if we are missing anything: FF Gravy lover foods (multiple flavors), canned tuna in water, chicken broth, corn syrup, honey, milk replacement supplement for kittens, & a feeding syringe.

After researching the board, I am starting to wonder if he would be better off on the gentler, but more expensive Lantus. But I will give Vetsulin & our vet's opinion a fair shake. Thoughts?


Thank you everyone. I will respond when I have a chance, right now, it is back to research time, sprinkled with loving time for my sugar man!
 
Cat Info is our bible for feline nutrition. Pop over and see what you think.
I put out food twice a day and the cats graze on it until finished.
 
BJM, it is funny, I have already read that article & that is what makes me want to eliminate dry kibble completely. But I am scared if I leave the wet out all day, that the 3 of them will consume it all. And what happens if his body tells him that he needs food badly & there is nothing available.

On top of that, if he grazes all day on the wet, we might struggle to get him to eat it again before his evening dose.
 
You may want to consider some of these options:
- Freeze part of the food which may be eaten as it thaws
- getting a few timed feeders such as the Pet Safe 5 to spread out the availability of food
By following the systematic protocols for adjusting insulin dose, the risk of hypoglycemia is controlled.
Here is the Vetsulin guide.
 
Hi, Bojangles and I are brand new to this too - we started insulin 7/30 pm. I'm a single pet parent, so have to do the ear sticks & insulin on my own. I thought that there would be tears (mine), but I've transitioned well to this. The ear sticks become easier. Others recommended filling a baby sock with rice and warming it 15 seconds or so in the microwave (test heat level on yourself first!) and holding that to the ear to warm it/help with blood flow, also vaseline a thin strip on the ear to help the blood bead up rather than spreading out into the fur. Both work well, but definitely the vaseline works wonders on making the blood test easier a lot fewer pricks to get the sample. Bojangles is not a huge fan of the canned DM and is a dry food addict. I'm trying to give less and less dry DM each day and leave out both 1/3 canned DM & 1/2 can Fancy Feast. Our numbers have ranged between 305-362 in the mornings and 296-301 in the evenings. I will be doing her first curve this Friday when I am off. She is currently on 1 unit of Lantus 2x/day. I use the AccuChek Aviva monitor for her glucose tests. My vet confirmed that I should keep honey and/or corn syrup on hand in case she goes hypo and then rub it on her gums. Fingers crossed that the transition to wet will progress, but I started the Fancy Feast as she didn't seem to be taking in enough of the DM canned - I panicked. I don't think she'll ever eat 1.5 cans of the DM as my vet recommended.
 
Rusty & Jennifer Shafer said:
I know that free feeding dry food isn't the best option. But with 3 cats & a work schedule that takes us away from home from 7:00-7:00 until getting home around 5:30-6:00. We want to make sure that he has access to food as he needs it. And he is a grazer, so he really does eat small snacks throughout the day. On top of that, if he was to slide towards hypo, I want him to be able to be able to eat. Am I thinking wrong here, or am I making the best of a less than ideal situation?
Click to expand...

As you know from your reading, it is recommended that you switch to just low carb wet food for Ernie, but switching all your kitties to this diet will benefit all of them and make regulating Ernie's blood sugar much easier.

If you do choose to make the transition, you will need to do it gradually over several days, and you will need to keep a very close eye on Ernie's blood sugar levels throughout the transition. With you both working out of the house, I recommend doing the main part of the transition on a weekend when you can test throughout the day. Changing the diet is likely to drop Ernie's blood sugar significantly and consequently his need for insulin. The dose will most likely need to be reduced in line with the changing proportions of wet and kibble that you feed, probably on a cycle by cycle basis. For example, Saoirse was on 3IU BID Caninsulin at the start of her transition (same as Vetsulin - different brand name in the UK). She was eating Hills w/d dry as prescribed by the diagnosing vet (kitty cornflakes - I was not happy about this Rx). Within 48 hours her BG dropped so much that I had to reduce her dose to 0.5 IU and I had to stop giving Caninsulin by the end of the week. (Switched to Lantus shortly afterwards.) Home testing will help you manage the transition safely.

Timed feeders are a godsend!


Mogs
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@Bojangles' Mom -

I'm a single pet parent, too. (Never thought to put it that way before. :D) Glad you're getting the hang of testing. It definitely does get easier with practice.

Re the Purina DM, a lot of cats don't like it. IIRC, Fancy Feast patés may actually be lower in carbs. See the post before this one for advice on transitioning to wet food only. Be extra vigilant with testing during the transition.

For your hypo kit, Fancy Feast Gravy Lovers is a good addition. If a kitty goes low, it can be helpful to just give some of the gravy from this food. It provides carbs but doesn't fill them up in case they need to eat a little more later in the cycle to keep their numbers coming up.


Mogs
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There is one dry food that those who just can't switch use. It's a Young Again Zero Carb which is really about 5%. You can check them out on line and ask for a sample. It is pricy though.
 
Thanks so much for your advice on having the FF Gravy lovers as part of her hypo kit. That's a good idea. I definitely think she'll be more likely to eat the FF pates than the DM, but will continue to offer both since I have a case of the DM.
 
Bojangles' Mom said:
Thanks so much for your advice on having the FF Gravy lovers as part of her hypo kit. That's a good idea. I definitely think she'll be more likely to eat the FF pates than the DM, but will continue to offer both since I have a case of the DM.
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I've read here that there may be a money-back guarantee on the Purina DM prescription food. It might be worth checking with your vet if Bojangles really doesn't like it.
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It's worth trying to return the food to the vet. My vet's office took back dry food that I'd opened. Then I recycled that money into other supplies. :)

Also wanted to add on an important tip as you make the transition from dry to wet food. I notice that your signature doesn't have a link to a spreadsheet which suggests that it's a work in progress. :) I would suggest that you get your spreadsheet set up as soon as possible so you have an organized way of recording your testing numbers. Without the color-coded spreadsheet when my little guy was making the transition, I would have missed really critical information that I needed to keep him safe. With all the adjustments I needed to make the spreadsheet was an amazing tool that helped me learn to interpret what was going on in Radar's furry little body. The spreadsheet also helps people here see what's happening so they can help you better.

I can't seem to find the link for the spreadsheet and directions for setting it up.... Sorry. I'm sure there's someone out there who knows where to find the directions.
 
Thank you. I actually don't have a computer or cell service at home so wasn't sure if that would be a useful tool. I'll look into it.
 
Would you be able to write down the numbers and record them from work? Is that how you are posting now?
 
Lantus is the preferred insulin for most as it seems to gave the best chance of reaching remission. It is expensive though.
 
We are on Lantus 1 unit 2x per day. The vet is fairly confident we caught it early enough so we'd only need to use it for about a month.
 
Are there directions on how to use the spreadsheet? I have dates/times/readings of glucose. It looks a bit intimidating. U=units of glucose given? AMPS - am reading pre-shot? PMPS - pm pre-shot? +1, +2, etc = 1 hour later, 2 hours later, etc? Am I interpreting this correctly? Right now I've only been measuring pre-shots (nothing after) as she so far has been over 300 for the most part.
 
I know it's intimidating because this is all new. You will be amazed at how quickly it makes sense. Yes you are interpreting it correctly. We usually do the test, feed, shoot routine about 15 minutes before shot time in case there are any surprises like a lower than expected amps/PMPS number. Since you don't have internet at home I would copy the stickies on shooting low numbers and keep it handy. We dose based upon the nadir, lowest point in a cycle which for most cats is +5-7 and can vary. If you don't know what that is you might end up missing a good dose and pass right by it. It's also good to get an out the door test before you go to work as that will help you figure out what is likely to happen while you are gone. Many cats, like mine, drop at night even though they get the same food as during the day so if you work all day and can't get the daytime numbers if you get a before bed test which hopefully us at least three hours after you shoot that will help out pieces into the puzzle. Does this make sense? Ask as many questions as you can think of.
 
Bojangles' Mom said:
Are there directions on how to use the spreadsheet? I have dates/times/readings of glucose. It looks a bit intimidating. U=units of glucose given? AMPS - am reading pre-shot? PMPS - pm pre-shot? +1, +2, etc = 1 hour later, 2 hours later, etc? Am I interpreting this correctly? Right now I've only been measuring pre-shots (nothing after) as she so far has been over 300 for the most part.
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That's spot-on. Gold star! :)

A cycle is a 12-hour period following an insulin shot. You need to take readings at other times during each cycle to ensure that it is safe, how low it will take Bojangles (the nadir), and also how long the dose remains effective (the duration).


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Thanks all for clarifying. I just spoke to the vet and she said she's right where they'd expect with her numbers. I do give insulin just before work, but have about 3 hours after the pm shot when I can measure post shot readings....have been somewhat scared at giving so many ear sticks, but am doing better thanks to the advice to put vaseline on the ear to help in bead....I think it's worse on the parents than the children!
 
A lot of us use Neosporin pain relief ointment on the ears. And yes it is harder on us than it is on the kitties. Since you can't get a +2 or 3 in the morning another option is to get a test at +11 or 12 to see if he is heading back up. Sporadic tests whenever you can get them will help to see the response to the dose. Some set an alarm at +6-7 at night every so often.

What time do you shoot and what are your hours away from home?
 
Bojangles' Mom said:
Thanks all for clarifying. I just spoke to the vet and she said she's right where they'd expect with her numbers. I do give insulin just before work, but have about 3 hours after the pm shot when I can measure post shot readings....have been somewhat scared at giving so many ear sticks, but am doing better thanks to the advice to put vaseline on the ear to help in bead....I think it's worse on the parents than the children!
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That PM+3 is a good test to grab for Vetsulin. Its onset is usually from +1 onwards. By +3 it should be at or getting toward nadir. If you make a habit of grabbing the +3 'before bed' test as a matter of course it should give you an idea of where Bojangles' numbers are heading and catch any unexpected lows.

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Critter Mom said:
That PM+3 is a good test to grab for Vetsulin. Its onset is usually from +1 onwards. By +3 it should be at or getting toward nadir. If you make a habit of grabbing the +3 'before bed' test as a matter of course it should give you an idea of where Bojangles' numbers are heading and catch any unexpected lows.

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They are using lantus.
 
@tiffmaxee - OUCH !!! Thanks for catching my error, Elise. My apologies for the error @Bojangles' Mom. I got confused because there are two cats on this thread.

@Bojangles' Mom - when you get a chance, can you add your insulin type and meter type into your signature (and save numpties like me from making faux-pas like the above! :oops: )

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I made the same mistake which is why I knew they are using lantus. I had to go back and reread to make sure I didn't mix up the two as well.
 
Ok, THANK YOU everyone for chiming in. It is quite comforting to know we have this huge support group / sounding board. Thank you everyone for that.

Here is what I am concluding: #1 - We will be getting a meter & starting home BG tests, as well as the charting aspect of it. #2 - We will switch all of our food to FF, however, I don't want to switch totally until we get the home testing established & know what his curves are. For now, we will leave the old kibble out, because it is carb laden & will serve well as a rescue food, if he were to need to self medicate during the day or overnight.

My question is, should I push for switching to Lantus, or should I give Vetsulin some more time? My reason for thinking about switching is that it seems like it is a gentler acting & seems to keep a better balance. So his curves aren't as likely to look like a roller coaster. I know it is more expensive, but this is our child, so cost isn't the most important factor. And it also seems like remission has a little better track record with Lantus. Should I push for Lantus, or give Vetsulin some time?
 
Bojangles' Mom said:
Thanks all for clarifying. I just spoke to the vet and she said she's right where they'd expect with her numbers. I do give insulin just before work, but have about 3 hours after the pm shot when I can measure post shot readings....have been somewhat scared at giving so many ear sticks, but am doing better thanks to the advice to put vaseline on the ear to help in bead....I think it's worse on the parents than the children!
Click to expand...
If you give mine or Elise's SS a look, you will see that we test quite a bit. And our kitties are no worse for wear.
 
BJM said:
Cat Info is our bible for feline nutrition. Pop over and see what you think.
I put out food twice a day and the cats graze on it until finished.
Click to expand...
Hi BJM! I'm new on here & trying to get all this figured out! Is it okay to leave unfinished food in the dish to be " grazed". I have a newly diagnosed diabetic kitty & another kitty who is showing some signs of possible beginnings of renal failure.
Thanks-----Meri
 
I too leave food out as Bojangles is a grazer. She doesn't eat enough in one sitting to remove the food. However, I'm sure that makes her morning readings higher as she likely is eating about an hour before I do her initial check. I too would appreciate anyone's thoughts or advice on this.
 
I routinely leave food out for 10 hours at a time and pick up 2 hours before pre-shot test. All the cats have been fine with doing this - and there are 15 in the condo!
 
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