New to this site Need Help Please!

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animallvr64

animallvr64

Member Since 2014
]Hello my name is Vickie and am new to this site so please bare with me.
I have an 13 year old calico cat whose name is China and was diagonised with diabetes
eariler this year. She was on insulin for a bit but then was able to get her under control and control it with her diet until now. She is no longer controlled and back on insulin. This time its starting to effect her other organs. Had her to the vet last week and had blood work done which showed that the diabetes is starting to effect her kidneys and such because its not controlled. And her thyroid is under active. She wants to eat all the time and she has lost weight she only weighed 8lbs when she was at the vet. She is on NPH (novdin) its walmart insulin gets 1.5 units every 12 hours. Is this the right kind for her? Before when I was able to get it controlled she was on Lantus and that seemed to work great for her. Right now I check her BS 2 times a day in the AM and in the PM. But not sure i fI should check her BS before she eats or after she eats? Also can you give me ideas on food for her vet wants her on dry food like natural or wellness core grain free. What do some of you all feed your cats? Please I am really need some help so I can help my sweet fur baby. She is everything to me and have been so stressed out since this has happened and I cant get her controlled. Any advice would be appericated. Thank you in advance..
 
Hi Vickie,

Take a deep breath. We're going to help you and China!

Three important things to start with:

1. Insulin - You're right to question the insulin. Novolin doesn't work very well for cats because it hits fast and wears off too quickly. Lantus, Levemir, & Prozinc are the best options. I would encourage you to try to get your vet to write a prescription for Lantus since you had good luck with it previously.

2. Testing - It is fantastic that you're testing at home. That's the best way to keep our kitties safe. Definitely test before you give each shot and before you feed China so that the number you get isn't influenced by food. Then you want to check again after you give the shot. I believe Novolin takes kitties to their lowest point about 4 to 6 hours after the shot, although every cat is different. If you can test around those times, it will tell us if the dose is taking China too low. Are you using a human meter? If so, you don't want China's numbers to fall below 50. If you're using a pet meter, you don't want her numbers to fall below 68.

3. Food - Low-carb canned food is the best for diabetic cats; ideally, you want to feed foods that are less than 10% in carbs. Here's a list that you can look at to see how many carbs are in different varieties: http://www.catinfo.org/docs/FoodChartPublic9-22-12.pdf. Look at the third column in the chart; that tells you the % carbs. Most dry foods are way too high in carbs for our kitties. Here's the catch with the food - if you do switch to a low-carb food, you want to monitor blood sugar levels often. Switching to low-carb foods can often causes the need for insulin to decrease dramatically. I've even seen cats go into remission almost immediately after switching to a low-carb food.

If you look at the bottom of our posts, you'll see links to spreadsheets. We use a common spreadsheet here to record the numbers we get when we home test. We'll be able to help you more if you can set up a spreadsheet and record your numbers on it. That way, we can see the "picture" of what's going on with China. Would you be willing to use the spreadsheet? If so, let us know, and we'll get you the instructions for setting one up.

I'm so sorry to hear about the kidney damage and under-active thyroid. I don't have any personal experience with that, but I know several other members here have kitties with those issues. Hopefully they'll be able to give you some great advice on that.

So, let me stop there and see what questions you may have about any of this.
Shelly
 
Even before you get a spreadsheet going can you post some BG readings stating ow long after the shot they were taken.
Also, can you post the results of the blood work and of any urine analysis.
Unless the blood glucose value are really high it would take years for relatively high BG to affect other organ like the kidneys.

And welcome too.
 
Thank you for the advice! Question though I understand to check her BS before she eats and if insulin is needed give it to her but then do I feed her and wait the 4 to 6 hours after shot given to check her level or give injection and wait the time without feeding to see what numbers are? I am also interested in the spreadsheet.
I don't have the results of the blood work the vet just discussed them over the phone with me am going tomorrow to get a printed copy of them. And then I can post them. Her. BS readings that I have so far are as follows::
9/24-after food 285
9/25- before meal 325 AM
Before meal 325. PM
after meal 198. 2 hrs after injection.
9/26- before meal - 340
After meal - 277
9/27- before meal - 296. Insulin given
Waiting at least 4 hrs to see what number is.
Vet stated to give insulin for anything over 220.
 
Those are not bad BGs at all, especially on N insulin.
It would be nice to get one before shot, 3 hours after shot and then 5 hours after shot. The maximum effect of N is typically at 5 hours.
 
Question though I understand to check her BS before she eats and if insulin is needed give it to her but then do I feed her and wait the 4 to 6 hours after shot given to check her level or give injection and wait the time without feeding to see what numbers are?
Click to expand...

Most people here recommend that you do not feed your kitty for two hours before the shot time. So, let's say that you give China a shot at 7:00 a.m. You wouldn't feed her between 5:00 a.m. and 7:00 a.m. At 7:00 a.m., you would test her, feed her, and then give her insulin (I think it's recommended for Novolin that you feed her and then give her the insulin 20 to 30 minutes later). After that, you can feed her like you regularly would and check her blood sugar whenever you want/can. You could, for example, feed her at 9:00 a.m. and still get a test at 9:30 a.m. There's no need to take away the food before you do "in-between" blood sugar checks. Does that make sense? It's a great question you asked!

Could you confirm what type of meter you're using (human or pet)? That will make a difference when we're figuring out what China's numbers mean.

Here are the directions for the spreadsheet:

  • 1. First of all, you’ll need to set up a Google account if you don’t have one already. Here’s the link for it: https://accounts.google.com/SignUp?continue=https://accounts.google.com/ManageAccount

    2. Once you set up your account, make sure you are signed in to it. Then open this link: https://drive.google.com/previewtem...U5BVEdyU1dGZmx5bnRvdG10OWc&mode=public&pli=1#

    3. This will bring up the template that you can use. In the upper, left-hand corner of the page, it says “Use this template.” Click on that.

    4. Now you have your own copy of the template. At the top, left-hand corner of the page, click on “File” and then choose “Rename.” You can now change the name of your spreadsheet.

    5. Once you finish entering the date, numbers, etc., you will need to publish your spreadsheet. Click on “File” again and then click on “publish to the web.” A little pop-up box will appear. You will want to make sure that the box that says “automatically republish when changes are made” has a checkmark next to it. Then click on “start publishing.”

    6. Now, you need to make sure other people can see your spreadsheet. Click on the blue “share” button on the upper right-hand corner of the page. A pop-up box will appear. There may be an option here to “get shareable link.” If there is, click on that. Then make sure the viewing option is set to “anyone with the link can view” and click save at the bottom of the box.

    7. Finally, you have to add the spreadsheet to your FDMB account. First copy the web address that appears in the address bar on your spreadsheet. Come back to FDMB and click on “User Control Panel” at the top left-hand side of the page. Then click on the tab that says “Profile” Next, click on the tab that says “Edit Signature.” There’s a little “url” button at the top of the box where you write. Click on it. This is what will show up in the box:



    Click in between the middle brackets and paste the web address for the spreadsheet that you created.

    In the end, it will look something like this:

    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...tting the spreadsheet up, just yell for help!
 
Thank you all for your advice it makes more sense now. I am using a human meter. It's the relion from walmart. I hope this is a good one. I have to test China early in the mornings because of my work. So should I pull her food before I go to bed for the night so I know she hasn't eaten before ki check her BGs in the AM? I just don't want her to be hungry she always wants to eat and doesn't seem like she can get.enough to.eat. Any ideas or thoughts?
 
With Novolin/Humulin N (aka NPH) insulin, please feed 30 min before you shoot. This is because this insulin hits hard and fast, so you want some food on board to start matching the insulin.

Here is a link to our Humulin Primer.
 
If your cat is hypothyroid your vet should prescribe Levothyroxine. Can you tell me what the Free T4 level was? Regulating the thyroid function will help get blood to the kidneys which will help with the kidney issues? Were the BUN and Creatinine levels elevated? When we were first diagnosed there was also a severe kidney infection, but even elevated or unregulated glucose levels can increase kidney values.

Squeaker was first diagnosed in July 2013 and with Lantus he went into remission by Sept. In May of this year he had a relapse and was back on Lantus for 5 weeks before going back into remission. His relapse was caused by a bout of pancreatitis. As I understood you to say this is a relapse in which case I would consider a pancreatitis test.

One thing I did right from the beginning was to get copies of all blood work results and put them in a spreadsheet. That way I can compare the levels across time at a glance.

Anita and Squeaker
 
Anita

I am getting a copy of her blood work tomorrow from the vet and also am going to tell her I want to put her back on lantus, because this insulin just do sent seem to be lasting long enough, and she did real good on lantus before, we had her in remission in no time. She also was just treated for a bladder infection. I am doing a curve on her today so I can show the vet tomorrow that this Insulin isn't holding her long enough.

However I am confused about something. My vet wants me to give her 1,5u every twelve hours if over 220. So if I say check her BG at 6am and its higbh and give her insuln at 6:30am then she wouldn't get another dose till 6:30pm. But what if her BG is elevated later in there day when I check it do I not given her the Insulin and just wait till 6:30p when she is suppose to get it? That just doesnt make sense to me and also tells me that the I sulin she is on is not lasting long enough for her. I am thinking king right or not?
 
Don't ever give more than 2 injections of insulin per day, and no less than 12 hours apart. Doing so could cause an unexpected drop in glucose. A hypo can be a deadly event.

Tell your vet that you do want Lantus and switch over. In about a week (for curves wait 2 weeks) you should see some changes. It might also be beneficial to ask for a fructosamine test. Rather than spot checking BG this test will look back over a couple of weeks and give a better view of glucose levels over time. I would really also get that pancreatitis test.

When you get the blood results I would really like to know the thyroid, BUN, and Creatinine levels.

Anita and Squeaker
 
Thanks Anita will post the results when I get them tomorrow. She had that blood test checking the be levels over time and she said its been out of control. I will ask about the other test as well. Thanks again just want to do what's best for my baby girl.
 
With humulin, some people do shoot TID (three times a day), every 8 hours. It takes a lot of testing, BG data, and schedule flexibility to do this effectively so it's not ideal. If you can get him to prescribe you Lantus again, I would think you'd have a much easier time of it.
 
I was able to get my vet to give me a rx for Lantus, however didn't realize how expensive it was. Does anyone know where I can get it where it won't cost a arm and a leg. Please let me know.
 
To answer one of your questions- I just spoke with my vet yesterday about when to feed and she said to take the food away at night to help out with the morning routine. My kitty was free fed before and was just a little annoyed, but doing fine with the new routine. :-)
 
So just an update China BGs have been staying in the mid200 to the mid three hundreds. She is still on humlin n twice a day. But now getting 2units. I am trying to keep her in the two hundreds or below. Is this a reasonable number. What is the normal blood sugar for a diabetic cat on insulin. ? I just want to do the best for her so her senior years are good ones. Any input is appericated.
 
See my signature link Glucometer Notes for info on what the readings may mean.
 
Normal blood glucose is 50-120...just like humans

We like to keep them in that normal range as much as possible because cats have the unique ability for their pancreas to heal and resume producing insulin..but to do that, it needs to rest as much as possible....Keeping them in those normal numbers allows it to get that rest

Have you looked into getting the Lantus? It's a much longer lasting and gentler insulin than Humulin is
 
I have looked into the lantus. But its.so expensive. Still looking to get.the best.price. I am working so hard to try and get her regulated. How do u know when you should increase the insulin or should that be the bets call? Doesn't seem like 1.5 u is enough. Thoughts please.
 
With Humulin or Novolin, to adjust the dose you need to test aroung the nadir between +3 to +4 hours after the shot.

If this lowest value in between shots is above 150 mg/dL, you may increase by 0.25 units. You'll have to eyeball it as no syringes mesure 0.25 increments.

Because both Humulin and Novolin are in and out insulins, your vet is going to understand how ProZinc and BCP PZI work better than he'll understand Lantus and Levemir which are depot insulins. If you feel up to teaching your vet and can afford it, by all means go with a depot insulin. The curves are more gentle for most cats. If your vet is unwilling to learn, you could have a real battle on your hands trying to explain how depot insulins work.
 
If you scroll up a little, I put a link to a post I made earlier about a pharmacy in Canada where I got a 5 pack of Lantus pens for $133.99 plus shipping

I can vouch for them being great to work with and very trustworthy

For most kitties, that's more than enough to last a year, so it breaks down to less than $12/month...but you will need a prescription from a vet
 
Well I finally got the spreadsheet done. I hope I did it right, please take a look at and give me any comments on what you see. I am new to this so am not sure about these numbers if there OK or not. Any feedback would be appreciated .
 

Attachments

This may help.

Understanding the spreadsheet/grid:

The colored headings at the top are the ranges of glucose values. They are color-coded to clue you in as to meaning.

Each day is 1 row. Each column stores different data for the day.

From left to right, you enter
the Date in the first column
the AMPS (morning pre-shot test) in the 2nd column
the Units given (turquoise column)

Then, there are 11 columns labeled +1 through +11
If you test at +5 (5 hours after the shot), you enter the test number in the +5 column
If you test at +7 (7 hours after the shot), you enter the test number in the +7 column
and so on.

Halfway across the page is the column for PMPS (evening pre-shot)
To the right is another turquoise column for Units given at the evening shot.

There is second set of columns labeled +1 through +11
If you snag a before bed test at +3, you enter the test number in the +3 column.

We separate day and night numbers like that because many cats go lower at night.

It is merely a grid for storing the info; no math required.
 
HI Vickie!

Are you still using the NPH or have you gone to Lantus yet?

If you're still using the Novolin, it'll be much better for China if you can get her the Lantus. If you can handle the initial cost of about $150, in most cats that's going to last at least a year so it breaks down to only about $12/month

What have you been feeding China?
 
To get your spreadsheet on the web, go to http://www.google.com
Click on the small icon grid.
Select Drive
Click on the drop down arrow next to My Drive and select Upload files...
Navigate to the spreadsheet and select it.
It will automatically convert to a Google Sheets file, so rename it by clicking on the name in the upper left corner and leave off the xls or xlsx extension. You might give it your cat's name.
Click on File, Publish to the web ...
Select Start Publishing
Copy the link to the published file (near the bottom of the dialog box)
That will go in your signature. Past it somewhere you can find it again - in a word processor works.

Now edit your signature.
Go to the top left of the screen.
Click on User Control Panel.
Click on Profile
Click on Edit Signature
A test box displays.
This is where you paste the link for your spreadsheet.
Add any other text, such as
your name, cat's name,
city and state,
date of Dx (diagnosis)
insulin
meter
any other pertinent issues like food issues, allergies, IBD, etc.
 
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