New to this forum and new to cat diabetes

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Becki and sox

Becki and sox

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Hi every one I'm new to this forum and it's topic.
My cat has recently been diagnosed as diabetic (28/10/2018)
We are due to visit the vet nurse tonight to discuss our options wether it be diet control or insulin.
When we took Sox to the vets last Thursday his blood sugar levels were reading at 30 on a pet monitor.
Over the weekend after research in to foods and monitoring I decided to take him of the dry food that he had replacing it with just his canned meat food that he had along side. ( It has been an eye openers to how bad dry foods can be)
Since Sunday I have been monitoring his blood on a human freestyle lite machine. Sundays reading was 18.8 Mondays was 12.4 and this morning he was 10.5 so it is coming down. Could this be due to stopping the crunchies?
Also if any one out there can give me any information on the best foods to feed that can be brought at a shop rather than prescribed that would be very helpful.
Thank you to any one who reads and can offer any help.
 
Hi, welcome to the best place to help you treat your kitty!
Yes, the switch to lower-carb food could very well be contributing to the lower bg numbers which is very good news. Keep monitoring and if numbers continue to drop, you may be one of the lucky ones and find that Sox can be controlled through diet alone.
As Sharon says, let us know what country you're in and we can suggest some good foods. Wet is always recommended for a diabetic cat but there is quite a lot of variation in carb content. Basically you're looking for a food in jelly, not gravy. Most supermarkets stock a good range so it should be easy to find something suitable.
Good luck!
 
Hi thank you both for your replies.
I'm in the UK and currently feed all my cats on the wet tinned cat food from Lidl. Both jelly and gravy. So I will avoid giving him the gravy one.
I'm hoping it is the stopping of the crunchies that is making the numbers come down seems to be so far but I will see what the vet nurse also says about it tonight at my appointment.
 
Becki and sox said:
Since Sunday I have been monitoring his blood on a human freestyle lite machine. Sundays reading was 18.8 Mondays was 12.4 and this morning he was 10.5 so it is coming down. Could this be due to stopping the crunchies?
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Hi Becki, and Sox, and welcome!

You're doing incredibly well to have already stopped dry food and learned to hometest. Great job!
And it's wonderful to see those numbers come down. :)

Given that the blood glucose level still seems to be trending downwards it could be worth sticking with the wet diet alone for a wee bit longer to see how that settles out.
(The number your vet/vet nurse will get using a pet meter will be a bit higher than you'll get using a human meter because they 'read' slightly differently. And the number may also be elevated because of the stress of being at the vets.)

Becki, if you give me more info about the Lidl foods I can probably work out the carb content for you. Somewhere on the packs you should find info that gives specific percentages for protein, fat, ash, fibre and moisture. Is that info there?

Eliz
 
Hi again, thought you were in the UK! There are a few of us here who are familiar with foods... I don't know the Lidl ones but if you can tell us the names, our food expert @Elizabeth and Bertie should be able to help you decide if they are good for Sox.
Otherwise, most cans and pouches in jelly should be ok. Whiskas and Felix are popular choices as they are so readily available, but there are better quality brands with higher meat content if you want to improve nutritional value as well as lower carb intake. Some of these are availablenin supermarkets but most are from online suppliers.


ETA - I was typing as Elizabeth was posting!
 
This is the % that shows on the tin.
It says sardine 4% and tuna 4%
I have been looking at a canned food with higher meat content. Any other than Felix and whiskers in store that you can recommend that are good protein and low carbs?

Thank you every one for you help. Always good if you can speak to people who are experiencing it too ☺️ x
 

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Hi again Becki
There are quite a few foods on Elizabeth's food list (look at the link to that on her "signature" at the bottom of her posts.

A good brand that you can get in supermarkets include Sainsbury's Delicious (chicken or fish varieties) which have a better meat content than Felix/Whiskas. I think there's an equivalent at Tesco but not sure what it's called. Also Hi Life which is available in certain supermarkets. Elizabeth might add some more names for you but for the higher-end foods you may have to shop online at somewhere like Zooplus or go to a pet supermarket such as Pets at Home. My kitty's current food is Nature's Menu chicken and turkey which I buy from www.fetch.co.uk

Hopefully Sox isn't too picky and you'll find one or two brands that he'll enjoy. Some cats don't take to a wet diet if they've been used to dry food, and some love it! It's definitely worth persevering as a wet diet is much healthier for any cat, diabetic or not.
 
Becki and sox said:
I have been looking at a canned food with higher meat content. Any other than Felix and whiskers in store that you can recommend that are good protein and low carbs?
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Hi Becki, thanks for that data.... ....I've got some bad news and some good news....

Bad news is that, despite the ingredients listed on those labels, the data there suggests the foods are just over 20% calories from carbs! And for diabetics we recommend foods that have less than 10% calories from carbs.
Good news is that there are lots of foods available with less than 10% calories from carbs. Further, if you switch to one of those your cat's blood glucose may drop even further....
.
 
I see Diana has given some good food suggestions above.
Another food that is really popular with UK'ers at the moment is 'Sheba fine flakes'. It seems to be very palatable to cats and is around 2.5% calories from carbs (according to the label data). It's widely available and is about a fiver for a box of 12 x 85g pouches.
.
 
Elizabeth and Bertie said:
I see Diana has given some good food suggestions above.
Another food that is really popular with UK'ers at the moment is 'Sheba fine flakes'. It seems to be very palatable to cats and is around 2.5% calories from carbs (according to the label data). It's widely available and is about a fiver for a box of 12 x 85g pouches.
.
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Actually even better - it's £3.75 a box in Sainsbury's atm! :)
 
Ahh ok thanks for that. I've just bulk buyed my food too for this month.
Ill probably look at using that for my other cats and get some other for Sox.
How do I work out the carb % when I'm out and about?
And Diana and Tom thank you about the food I'll have a look into it.
Thanks every one
 
Hi there,
Becki and sox said:
Sundays reading was 18.8 Mondays was 12.4 and this morning he was 10.5 so it is coming down. Could this be due to stopping the crunchies?
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I thought you'd be glad to hear that this year alone we had several kitties who's gone into remission due to diet change.
Of course, they will remain diabetics but won't require the insulin therapy. Diet controlled.

Sometimes you can see the change in the BG numbers so dramatic that it makes you wonder what on Earth have they made that dry food of?

Another positive thing is that you have just started weaning off the dry food but already seeing good response.
It takes time to get rid of all of the previously consumed dry foods within kittie's body.
really think that you will see BG levels even lower than now and it's a wonderful sign.
 
That's great. It does make you wonder what is in the dry food.
I read some one who put feeding dry food to your cat is like feeding chocolate and sweets to your kids.
I've took all the cats off it now. As they are all indoors and could probably benifit with losing a few pounds. So for now crunchies will just be a treat now and then.
I was really surprised when I saw numbers coming down just after 3 days that's what made me thought could it really just be the crunchies.
Was so worried when I got the diagnosis but now speaking to more people it's not as scary as I though x ☺️
 
Becki and sox said:
Ahh ok thanks for that. I've just bulk buyed my food too for this month.
Ill probably look at using that for my other cats and get some other for Sox.
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If you've got other kitties to feed as well you could consider Butcher's Classic, which you can get as 6 x 400g cans, or 12 x 400g cans. It's available from quite a few places and is far cheaper than the Sheba fine flakes. The Butcher's is around 7.6% calories from carbs.

There are lots of foods in the list in my signature below. Scroll down the list a bit for supermarket foods. (And if you're willing to buy online from somewhere like Zooplus there may be many more options besides...)
.
 
Becki and sox said:
Also is cat milk ok for diabetic cats and what are the best treats for them?
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I don't think cat milk is great, no, it contains sugars, and not ordinary milk either. It's really a myth that cats like milk - often they are allergic to the lactose.
As for treats, look for things like freeze-dried chicken pieces in little tubs (Thrive or Cosma). They can be quite expensive in supermarkets so look online at Zooplus. Or you can offer small pieces of cooked chicken as treats, or ham or cheese in moderation. All zero carbs.
 
Becki and sox said:
...is there an easy way to work out the carbs?
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Carbs aren't often listed in the ingredients, so the way to find the approximate carb% by weight is to add up the other percentages for protein, fat, ash, fibre and moisture and deduct that from 100%. But here on FDMB we take the calculation further and compare by 'the percentage of calories' from carbs, looking for that to be less than 10% for a diabetic.
There used to be a good phone app that did this calculation, but I think it's disappeared now, sadly. Though there are some others around that do the calculation slightly differently.

There is a good online calculator by Scheyderweb that gives a good ballpark figure. Details are in the second link in my signature below (scroll down almost to the bottom of that info).
And/or I can send you my Excel SS which does the whole calculation (sent to me when I first joined this forum). It's basic but works just fine. If you'd like it just PM me your email address.

Eliz
 
So i have just returned from my appointment at the vets they checked his glucose on their alphatrak and it was 25.5 I think this is possibly high due to stress.
They have recommended diet control to start with and suggest Purina DM. With 24 cans at 46 pounds.
At the moment I am going to continue with my food currently feeding to do a curve test at weekend but then will possibly try feeding either the butcher's choice or Sainsbury's ones.
 
Good for you, Becki. Good call to stick with usual low-carb food - there should be no need for expensive prescription food. That 25.5 is very high but probably at least partly due to vet stress. It will be interesting to see a curve at the weekend - can you plot the numbers on a spreadsheet and link to your signature here so we can see and comment if you'd like us to? If you need help setting up a spreadsheet just say, there are people here who can do it very quickly for you.
 
I did think it was very expensive when there might be super market equivlents.
Also the vet nurse recommend if I'm going to change his food to do it gradually over a week. Is this something that is recommended as she said it could spike the glucose results?

Yes definitely I will put the results on here when I've done it on Sunday hopefully.

If those are the values have I worked it out right that the % of carbs is 7.3

Fingers crossed I have figured it out properly lol. Thanks
 

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Yes, when switching foods it is always best to do so gradually so as to familiarise kitty with the new taste etc and avoid possible tummy upsets. Not sure what your vet nurse meant about switching maybe causing bg spike, it should be the other way round if you're going to a compeletely wet low-carb diet.

I'll leave it to Elizabeth to comment on your carb calculation!
 
Elizabeth and Bertie said:
Yes! :)
(My calculator makes it a smidge higher but it may be rounding up).
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Great thank you. Least I know I can work them out now is store when I'm looking at the foods.
Only one I'm struggling with is whiskers as I can't see the ash%

When testing six this morning (at 7am) his BG was 13.3 so had gone up from yesterday morning. Is it normal for it to go up and down. Or could it still be running abut high from his visit to vets last night?
Do you advise testing BG once or twice a day?
 
About had a damn heart attack when I saw your numbers, then I realized you were international. Welcome to you, Becki and Sox! I am new as well; River was dx on 10/20. You will find lots of support here. Hang in!! <3
 
If you can't see the food info on the box, you can sometimes get more details by looking up the product online. Try one of the supermarkets such as Sainsbury's or Tesco, they should have detailed content analysis.

As for bg, yes it certainly is normal for it to go up and down, and this is the major frustration when treating FD. It depends on food intake (what and when), energy levels, stress factors, any infection going on... any of those things can affect bg. The challenge is to try to keep numbers in a normal range for as much of the day as possible. This is where keeping a log of your testing results and other info will be vital in trying to work out a correct dose of insulin (if it comes to that).

13.3 isn't a bad number at all for a diabetic cat (albeit still definitely a diabetic number) but you would need to shoot insulin to bring it down. As far as frequency of testing is concerned - if/when you're giving insulin you would need to test before every shot, to ensure that the number is high enough to warrant a dose. Then, testing as and when you can during the 12-hour cycle (insulin is normally given twice a day) will enable you to see how the insulin is working - when it starts to take effect (onset), what is the lowest number during the cycle, and at what point it starts rising again. This is a curve, in essence. I think you said you were planning to do a curve at the weekend which will be good practise and enable you to see how numbers fluctuate during the day, BUT those numbers will most likely be very different without insulin. There is no particular need to test unless you're giving insulin, but it's all good useful data.
 
Paigeworthy said:
About had a damn heart attack when I saw your numbers, then I realized you were international. Welcome to you, Becki and Sox! I am new as well; River was dx on 10/20. You will find lots of support here. Hang in!! <3
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Becki, in case you're wondering - the US uses its own bg numbers which are different to the rest of the world. There's no need to get overly involved in this for now, but for possible future reference - to translate a US number to a world number, divide it by 18, and to convert a world number to US, multiply it by 18.
 
Okie dokie. Think I get that then.
Thanks every one for all your input.its been really useful I'll see how I get on now over the next couple of days and keep every one updated on how were getting on ☺️
 
So tested tonight and it's 17.6 UK reading..
How long does it take to see major changes in stability. Be it a few days or does it take at least a few weeks to regulate?
Vet said to stay on food he's currently fed but that has carbs at 20% do you think I should change his diet to a 10% or lower one before we do the curve test.
Thanks guys
 
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Elizabeth and Bertie said:
Hmmm.... Numbers seem to be creeping up again....
Any change in what you're feeding, Becki?
.
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He had the same food this morning as he has every day. He did have a different food last night at around 8pm. But he's had it off and on through the month before I knew he was diabetic. It did have a lower carb content. Maybe it's my own fault for giving him that instead??
 
I'd change to a lower carb food and see if that makes any difference. 20% carbs is quite high so hopefully a lower carb food will lower bg. If you then stick to a lower carb food for a few days before doing a curve, you'll have a better idea of what Sox's "normal" bg may be on low carb food but without insulin, and you'll have a clearer picture of whether insulin is needed or not.
 
Yeah I was thinking would be better to get him on lower one soon as possible really. So just gradually change it over a few days?
I've never weighed his food before so he's 4.9kg how much would you recommend feeding? And still ok to keep to his 2 feeds a day?
 
Well ideally yes, change food over gradually, a few days is fine... mix a little of the new one in with the existing one, increasing the proportion of new each time until the whole meal is the new food.

You prohably dont need to weigh the amount you feed... unregulated diabetics are often very hungry so give him as much as he needs. Two meals a day may not be enough, or you could offer some carb free treats as mentioned earlier.
 
Sorry it's not loading my image it's one of the Sainsbury's canned food and has 8.5 protein and 6.71% carbs. That should be ok shouldnt it
 
Becki and sox said:
It's adult compleat by Sainsbury's or im thinking butcher's choice.
Sorry it was ment to say protein my phone likes making up words
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If it's tinned or pouch food in jelly it should be fine. The poultry varieties are usually the best to go for, and fish just once a week or so.
Ah yes phones do like making up words! I didn't think that could be right but when people are new to FD it is easy to get confused with the technical jargon :) :) :)
 
Becki and sox said:
Yes that's the one. Any particular reason why chicken is better than fishy one?
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There probably isn't much difference in nutritional value, but it isn't generally recommended to feed fish too often as it may contain something that isn't good for cats in excess.
So the tins you're going to feed look ok carb wise. They are really the Sainsbury's equivalent of Whiskas or Felix with 4% meat. If you want to increase the meat content in the diet you could alternate with one of the other brands we mentioned.
 
This is the one I've brought
 

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Thank you. I think I did hear some where before that too much fish isn't good for them.
So you think that Sainsburys one will be ok for now for the low carbs but then just alternate with a low carb high meat content occasionally. How are you best to altinate them if you have to swap food over a few days? Sorry for the dumb question.
Thank you ☺️
 
Not a dumb question at all! The food you've bought may or may not be similar in carb value to the other (dearer) food which is just higher in actual meat content. If you look at the label you attached the image file of here, it lists meat and meat derivatives as the main content but derivatives can mean anything and not actually muscle meat. Actually the label also says derivatives of vegetable origin, and various sugars - these things can elevate bg so if you feed this don't be surprised to see a bit of a spike. But, you just don't know, it's trial and error. You are right at the beginning of all this, you're doing really well, it sounds as if there's a lot to take in but once you get your head round the basics it gets much easier!
 
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