New to this forum and have a few questions

Status
Not open for further replies.
Fiona1 said:
Yeah i was thinking that about 8.8 lol
Shes quite lively this evening.
Click to expand...
So it's all going pretty well then, really... and I bet you're glad to be home now after being away from her for a few hours. Are you at work the rest of the week? If so you can take today's amps and mid cycle numbers as a guide, but the lower (ie nicer) her numbers go, the more cautious you will have to be. As we've said, when in doubt, just shoot a very conservative or token dose.
Great work Fiona!
 
Yeah working the rest of the week.
Working 8-4 tomorrow so will need to leave by 7.15.
Just tested her and shes 11.7
Im unsure what to do. I could stall but thats going to make the time i inject her even later. I was hoping to inject her at 7.10 this evening. Good pmbg but unsure what to do now! Lol
 
Fiona1 said:
Yeah working the rest of the week.
Working 8-4 tomorrow so will need to leave by 7.15.
Just tested her and shes 11.7
Im unsure what to do. I could stall but thats going to make the time i inject her even later. I was hoping to inject her at 7.10 this evening. Good pmbg but unsure what to do now! Lol
Click to expand...
Well it seems that she's definitely rising, which is expected. Good duration though on the skinny 0.5u. You could try that again this evening - should be safe, especially if you get a couple of tests in to check before you go to bed. See what the others say - @Elizabeth and Bertie @Kris & Teasel ?
 
Nice numbers today. And Tinkerbell is getting a really lovely response to the Caninsulin.
Interesting that the preshot numbers are still trending downward...

Fiona @Fiona1 , how are you coping with measuring the smaller doses?
.
 
Just done 0.5.
Im eyeballing them but have u40 syringes with .5 increments on the way.
When would you all suggest testing her tonight?
 
Fiona1 said:
Just done 0.5.
Im eyeballing them but have u40 syringes with .5 increments on the way.
When would you all suggest testing her tonight?
Click to expand...
Well, various ways of looking at this but you could test her just before you go to bed, and then at whatever time is between now and then... not the most scientific suggestion but in a non-vital situation it's quite nice to just be simple/practical sometimes!
 
Ive done a +2 test and its 9.3. Ill do +4 then sleep.
So happy today as i havent seen tinkerbell this bright in about a month. Shes been walking round lots, purring, going to eat on her own without me taking it to her although still not large amounts. Shes done this for small amounts of time but she has been like this since i got home, almost 4 hours ago.
Thank you all so much for your help!
 
The problem is, shes still not eating as much as she used to. Think shes having equivalent to just under a pouch per day at the moment, even though i keep trying to get her to eat more. I feel like thats definitely influencing it. Im not sure what to think.
 
Sorry for so many posts in a row. I wonder if either the high levels of unsulin or high blood sugar levels in the vets could be causing either a decrease in apetite or lower blood sugar levels because the insulin is possibly still in her system? Shes also not as lethargic as the weekend but shes still not her usual self.
 
Lovely pmbg again but you may be right about what is keeping the numbers down. One pouch a day is very little. Does she like fresh chicken, or fish, or ham? Can you tempt her to eat more by sprinkling some Parmesan or tuna juice on her food? That will entice many cats. But she may be a bit unsettled by this warm weather. Try not to worry - you were very positive yesterday when she was in better form so maybe today she's just having a quieter day.

As for the high doses of insulin still being in her system - no, not after all this time. Caninsulin is an "in and out" insulin, not a "depot" insulin like some others, so when it's been used up, that's it. It may be though that her whole system is stil
adjusting to events of the last few weeks so it may be a question of time and waiting to see how she gets on. Are you due a vet visit at some point soon?

Good call to stall, definitely. She has probably been surfing nicely all day so we need to think carefully about dose now.
 
Im due a vet visit on monday.
Shes been having a bit of bozita then tuna. She had sardines today and liked those. Ill try some fresh fish too.

Shes still as bright as yesterday but shes not back to her usual self yet.
 
Try not to worry. Easier said than done of course, but look how far you and she have come. She had a bout of DKA, her body had to cope with those very high doses of insulin, and it's been a bit too warm for comfort for many animals. But I'm sure she's much happier back home and you are now you're in control of her bg and diet. Think of a human coming home to convalesce after a spell in hospital - it takes a little while to get back to normal.

Hang in there Fiona, you're doing such a great job as we all keep saying.
 
Thanks :)
The stalling result was 11.2
Fed her bozita and she had a small anount and walked off. Put her in the play pen with the food and shes now eating more.
To be honest, neither of my cats had huge appetites before this. Used to have half a pouch each per day and biscuits because i thought that was healthy as per my vets advice. Didnt have that many biscuits as i was always throwing them away.
 
Fiona1 said:
Thanks :)
The stalling result was 11.2
Fed her bozita and she had a small anount and walked off. Put her in the play pen with the food and shes now eating more.
To be honest, neither of my cats had huge appetites before this. Used to have half a pouch each per day and biscuits because i thought that was healthy as per my vets advice. Didnt have that many biscuits as i was always throwing them away.
Click to expand...
Well in that case it's not so surprising that she's not tucking in to the wet food now, if she's never had a big appetite. Not all cats are gluttons! Maybe all you can do atm is keep tempting her with whatever you have to hand, and adding something strong-smelling on the top (tuna, cheese) - cats are very influenced by their sense of smell.
Going forward, if she's still not eating much but it's not really much less than what she had before and she was well on it, that's ok. No point force-feeding her unless she really is refusing everything - and she seems to associate the playpen with meal times so keep up that habit!
 
Yesterday, she was 11.7 so i gave her 0.5. Today shes 11.2 after stalling (didnt feed before this) and im wondering whether or not to give her any. I can always do it up until 9pm and change her time as im working 10-6 then 10.30-6.30 the next 2 days. I just dont know if shes too low. Shes just eaten a fair amount and i can give her sardines in about 3 hours.
 
Diana&Tom said:
Well in that case it's not so surprising that she's not tucking in to the wet food now, if she's never had a big appetite. Not all cats are gluttons! Maybe all you can do atm is keep tempting her with whatever you have to hand, and adding something strong-smelling on the top (tuna, cheese) - cats are very influenced by their sense of smell.
Going forward, if she's still not eating much but it's not really much less than what she had before and she was well on it, that's ok. No point force-feeding her unless she really is refusing everything - and she seems to associate the playpen with meal times so keep up that habit!
Click to expand...
lol i know. When you say it like that, it makes sense. Im just an extremely anxious person. Before this, a few months ago, i felt a lump on her spine which is still there. I took her to see 4 vets and they all said it wasnt anything to worry about.
 
Fiona1 said:
lol i know. When you say it like that, it makes sense. Im just an extremely anxious person. Before this, a few months ago, i felt a lump on her spine which is still there. I took her to see 4 vets and they all said it wasnt anything to worry about.
Click to expand...
Fiona, honestly - we're all anxious when it comes to our cats so what you're saying is nothing new or surprising.

As for dosing tonight - I'm not sure what to say other than be very cautious. Are you around to help, @Elizabeth and Bertie @Kris & Teasel ?
 
I’m loving these numbers Fiona, I am very cautious with dosing, probably too cautious...but again I’m no expert.
I personally wouldn’t give her any insulin tonight but others might say different..
As for eating Josie’s not been keen on eating either lately but still looking and acting ok.
Hopefully with Tinks it’s a combination of the weather and all the crash course changes she’s been going through lately x
Ps. Plain steamed chicken or fish fillet?
Josie usually eats those if I make it..
 
Monica Lewis said:
I’m loving these numbers Fiona, I am very cautious with dosing, probably too cautious...but again I’m no expert.
I personally wouldn’t give her any insulin tonight but others might say different..
As for eating Josie’s not been keen on eating either lately but still looking and acting ok.
Hopefully with Tinks it’s a combination of the weather and all the crash course changes she’s been going through lately x
Ps. Plain steamed chicken or fish fillet?
Josie usually eats those if I make it..
Click to expand...
Yeah hopefully thats just it.
Just saw her drink some water too :) not from the cat water bowls, but because i put my glass in front of her! Lol
With the fish, should it be an oily one or not?
 
Fiona1 said:
Yesterday, she was 11.7 so i gave her 0.5. Today shes 11.2 after stalling (didnt feed before this) and im wondering whether or not to give her any.
Click to expand...
The 11.2 and the 11.4 (that you got yesterday am) are pretty much the same number given that meters aren't that precise. So, maybe it would be worth trying the same skinny 0.5 (0.4?) if you can monitor..? Or, even just a smaller token dose, just 'some' insulin. If you give nothing the chances are that her blood glucose will be higher in the morning (or maybe not, perhaps Tinkerbell will surprise us!).

It is difficult when a kitty's blood glucose levels are trending downwards, because the insulin requirements keep dropping....

Perhaps another BG test in a wee while before deciding...? ...If the BG is unchanged, or has dropped at all in response to the food, that could be a reason to skip....

Ultimately, you should do what you feel most comfortable with.
.
 
Elizabeth and Bertie said:
The 11.2 and the 11.4 (that you got yesterday am) are pretty much the same number given that meters aren't that precise. So, maybe it would be worth trying the same skinny 0.5 (0.4?) if you can monitor..? Or, even just a smaller token dose, just 'some' insulin. If you give nothing the chances are that her blood glucose will be higher in the morning (or maybe not, perhaps Tinkerbell will surprise us!).

It is difficult when a kitty's blood glucose levels are trending downwards, because the insulin needs keep dropping....

Perhaps another BG test in a wee while before deciding...? ...If the BG is unchanged, or has dropped at all in response to the food, that could be a reason to skip....

Ultimately, you should do what you feel most comfortable with.
.
Click to expand...
Mmm yes that sounds much what I was thinking but I bow to Eliz's greater experience. It could be that the 0.5u was enough to stop a sudden rise and keep her nice and steady all day. But it could also be that now she's in better numbers, she will need less and less insulin. I agree with Eliz's suggestion - test again in another hour or so and that might give a clearer signal of what to do.
 
Fiona1 said:
Yeah hopefully thats just it.
Just saw her drink some water too :) not from the cat water bowls, but because i put my glass in front of her! Lol
With the fish, should it be an oily one or not?
Click to expand...
I steam either white fish, salmon or tuna steak when I’m getting desperate..
Can’t do it too often though but comes handy when they decide to refuse all other food..:banghead: Kitties gotta eat..
 
Thanks all for the input.
I went with less than before, id say 0.3. She had an 11.5 reading. Will check her in 3 hours and give her sardines. She just went and ate more bozita as her own choice, in the pen.
I wish i could get my other cat to take to these foods. Shes been on hunger strike unless its in gravy. Ive no idea why. She used to eat sheba fine flakes
 
Fiona, you are just incredible you know... that's a wonderful number to see this morning. You have such a good grasp of all this now and I'm sure your vet will be extremely impressed with what you've achieved.
We'll all be hoping that the bg situation stays this way - you'll have to carry on testing for a while of course - and meanwhile try not to worry tooooo much about the food/appetite and slight lethargy... Tinkerbell is still recovering in a way so just give her loads of TLC and hopefully she'll be back to her normal self very soon.
Look forward to an update this evening.
Have a great day - celebrate!
 
Fiona1 said:
what if my accu chek is faulty?! Lol
Click to expand...
You can always test yourself - and any other willing human volunteers - to see if the BG seems to be in range.... :smuggrin:
Or, you could try testing your other kitty...... :nailbiting: ;)

If you test yourself, prick the side of a fingertip, not the pad. It doesn't sting as much, and the sting doesn't last as long.

However, I suspect your meter is working just fine!
The numbers have been trending downwards, and this was to be expected if that trend continued.... :D:D:D
.
 
Fiona @Fiona1 , it looks like Tinkerbell now has a strong chance of remission... :D
Perhaps it is indeed the case that her diabetes was steroid induced...

Here on FDMB the general rule of thumb is that if a kitty stays in normal numbers (approx 2.7 - 7.2) for 14 days they can be considered to be in remission.
Sometimes the blood glucose rises again (usually just briefly), so don't be unduly concerned if her BG rises enough to need insulin.

Today will be Tinkerbell's first full day without insulin, so this is Day One.
Keeping fingers, paws, and everything else crossed for her....

Go, Tinkerbell!!! :cat::cat::cat:
.
 
Elizabeth and Bertie said:
Fiona @Fiona1 , it looks like Tinkerbell now has a strong chance of remission... :D
Perhaps it is indeed the case that her diabetes was steroid induced...

Here on FDMB the general rule of thumb is that if a kitty stays in normal numbers (approx 2.7 - 7.2) for 14 days they can be considered to be in remission.
Sometimes the blood glucose rises again (usually just briefly), so don't be unduly concerned if her BG rises enough to need insulin.

Today will be Tinkerbell's first full day without insulin, so this is Day One.
Keeping fingers, paws, and everything else crossed for her....

Go, Tinkerbell!!! :cat::cat::cat:
.
Click to expand...
Thanks i really hope so!
Gave the cats salmon tonight and they both turned their noses up! Lol bozita it is then...
Do you reckon i should test her later or just in the morning?
 
Fiona1 said:
Do you reckon i should test her later or just in the morning?
Click to expand...
Unless you're uber keen I'd say just test again in the morning. (And please don't be disappointed if the numbers are a bit higher. It's OK...)

When kitties are going into remission (touch wood / anti-jinx) it can be helpful to just feed them small, mini-meals at a time, so as to stimulate the pancreas without giving it too much to do at any one time. But I know that Tinkerbell doesn't have a huge appetite anyway, so this general advice may not apply, haha!
.
 
Ref the food situation, Fiona - if your cats really don't care for all your carefully selected gourmet cat grub, you could try some of the "complementary" options such as Applaws and Encore... many cats like these. But because they are not "complete" (ie don't contain all the essential nutrients) you'd have to add a supplement such as Felini (available on Zooplus) to make them complete. May be a bit of a faff but as it's a never-ending quest for some of us to find a food our cats will eat consistently, it's an option to keep up your sleeve, if only for occasional deployment!
 
Just tested myself and got 5.o (wanted to check the meter was working). Looked online and got conflicting answers for a human. Did have a some wine in potential celebration! So that could have added to it i guess.
 
Fiona1 said:
Just tested myself and got 5.o (wanted to check the meter was working). Looked online and got conflicting answers for a human. Did have a some wine in potential celebration! So that could have added to it i guess.
Click to expand...
Lovely healthy normal number!
 
Fiona1 said:
Reading for tinkerbell of 4.2 this morning.
I spoke to my vet yesterday evening and he said he was amazed, thanked me for letting him know and asked me to send my spreadsheet.
Click to expand...

Brilliant!
I'm not surprised the vet was amazed - your dosing decisions were much better than his. If he asks you what you based your dosing on, you could tell him that you spent a lot of time reading on a well-respected feline diabetes website (actually you are almost certainly better informed about FD now than your vet) and you followed a protocol that starts on a low dose... you have proof that this can work.
 
Fiona1 said:
Reading for tinkerbell of 4.2 this morning.
Click to expand...
Yay! That is so lovely to see! :D:smuggrin::D:smuggrin::D

Fiona1 said:
I spoke to my vet yesterday evening and he said he was amazed, thanked me for letting him know and asked me to send my spreadsheet.
Click to expand...
Diana&Tom said:
I'm not surprised the vet was amazed - your dosing decisions were much better than his...
Click to expand...
Ditto to everything Diana said in her post.

Your vet kept increasing the dose on the basis of seeing high preshot numbers, but without sufficient testing during the cycle. Without those mid-cycle tests it won't become apparent that the dose is too high. And even though the vet allowed a day to see if the cat was in rebound, that day simply wasn't sufficient.
I'm not going to sugarcoat it; those high doses could have caused fatal hypoglycemia.

The sad reality is that most vets get very little training in feline diabetes. And the training that they do receive seems to be incomplete and rather out of date. Very few vets in the UK support hometesting, and many still advise feeding food that is too high in carbohydrate... :confused:
...I really like my vet. He's mostly been great over the years that he's treated my animals. But he too seemed to know very little about feline diabetes. Fortunately, after a while (having seen my hometesting data), he was happy to just let me get on with it myself... ;)

Fiona, you are a really wonderful caregiver for your kitties. When Tinkerbell was diagnosed with diabetes you got online and you started learning. You've grasped a heck of a lot in a very short time, and have shown remarkable dedication. Tinkerbell is one very lucky cat! :bighug::bighug::bighug:

I do hope your vet has the interest - and the humility - to learn from your experience with Tinkerbell. If he can do that it could really help the diabetic cats that come into his care in the future.
.
 
Needless to say, I agree with all Elizabeth's comments above. This issue of vets not understanding feline diabetes is SO important. I just dread to think what happens to some kitties who receive mis-treatment through vet ignorance. There must be many tragic stories of cases that we never hear about - not everyone of course finds their way here and learns from the collective experience of cat owners all over the world. Sad to say, FD is very common - due partly perhaps to the "convenient" choice of dry food given to a species that is simply not designed to eat carbohydrates - so this sad state of affairs is set to continue.

I imagine, Fiona, when you move, you will be looking for a new vet? - do take your time and ring round to "interview" a few on their knowledge and experience of FD, and their willingness to work *with* you as a caring and intelligent owner.
And - not that I suggest you stop posting here about Tinkerbell just yet - I hope that when the pressure is off, and if you have time, you will stick around and maybe give other newbies the benefit of your experiences.
 
Yes I would definitely like to stick around and try to help. I wish we could do more to get this out there for people!

Thanks for your kind words but it’s also thanks to all of you who have taken your own time to teach me and I really appreciate that!

I’m going to phone around vets in Worthing next week. There is one that I am looking to phone in the first instance, which is a cat only vets called Cats Whiskers, which doesn’t mean they know most about feline diabetes but I will give them a try first.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top