Diana&Tom
Member Since 2009
A freeze-dried chicken treat such as Thrive is fine. It's the cheap carb-filled ones like Whiskas or Dreamies that you want to avoid.
New to this forum and have a few questions
- Thread starter Fiona1
- Start date
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Fiona1
Member Since 2018
Thanks Diana, going to buy both in my lunch break tomorrow then! I finish work at 6.30 tomorrow and the vet closes at 6.30 so don't think he will let me collect her tomorrow anyway. Finish at 6 on Tuesday so will be able to get her then.
Diana&Tom
Member Since 2009
Great - but you don't really need two meters at this point... they aren't cheap and you may find it confusing comparing two different types. I'd ask the pharmacist which is simpler to use and go for that. But up to you of course.
Kris & Teasel
Member Since 2016
That's good. Steroids are a definite complicating factor.
I have no proof of what I'm about to say but these numbers shout "Too high a dose!" to me. A full curve would provide the proof. Here's the usual scenario:
- BG is high so a large insulin dose is given
- BG drops low and stays low 12 hours later because of the longer duration a high dose can have
- BG is too low for insulin 12 hours later so dose is skipped
- rinse and repeat ...
Kris & Teasel
Member Since 2016
You poke beside the vein, not into the vein. Here's some good information: http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/hometesting-links-and-tips.287/
Monica & Josie
Member Since 2017
Hi Fiona,
Let me start with this - I am getting quite concerned about the vet increasing the dose so rapidly within so little time.
Increasing the dose is not always the straightforward answer to high blood sugar levels. In fact if the dose is too high it can actually really muddle up the bg readings, not to mention becoming dangerous for kitty.
Too much insulin can push the BG levels quite low in mid-cycle putting the cat at a considerable risk of having a hypo.
If your vet is only treating Tinkerbell for diabetes now I believe the dose should be considerably lower.
Please raise your concerns to the vet regarding the dosage.
I was actually very concerned to read that he increased the dosage to 5u and only testing twice a day not even trying to get the lowest mid-cycle number ( nadir ) readings to get a better idea of how is Tinkerbell responding..
As for the meter I just watched the Accu Chek Mobile device video once again and although I might be wrong but I’m still not convinced that it is easy or straightforward to use to test a cat. It looks like that it is designed for testing humans on the go with an easily controlled finger in mind to prick and not an animal’s ear.
We’ve been using the Accu Chek Performa for a year now and it is quite reliable..
Not sure if you should ask the pharmacist in Boots though, we told them in another town once that we were buying the test strips and lancets for our diabetic cat, they became funny about it and refused to sell them to us as ‘they were intended for human use..’ It was quite distressing for us as we ran out and really needed both things ASAP.. So maybe do your research beforehand..?
As for the feeding we were recommended 3-4 pouches of Sheba spread out throughout the day for our then 4.2kg cat so almost the same as Tinkerbell.
Treats are fine to give to your cat, you just have to make sure that they don’t contain added carbs or sugar.
We give HiLife freeze dried chicken breast cubes and Natures Menu pure meat chewy treats.
They made testing so much easier as most cats eventually learn that they are getting a nice reward at the end so they are willing to sit more patiently and tolerate all the poking better.
Would definitely recommend the ear for testing, watch as many YouTube videos as you can to get a better idea..
Let me start with this - I am getting quite concerned about the vet increasing the dose so rapidly within so little time.
Increasing the dose is not always the straightforward answer to high blood sugar levels. In fact if the dose is too high it can actually really muddle up the bg readings, not to mention becoming dangerous for kitty.
Too much insulin can push the BG levels quite low in mid-cycle putting the cat at a considerable risk of having a hypo.
If your vet is only treating Tinkerbell for diabetes now I believe the dose should be considerably lower.
Please raise your concerns to the vet regarding the dosage.
I was actually very concerned to read that he increased the dosage to 5u and only testing twice a day not even trying to get the lowest mid-cycle number ( nadir ) readings to get a better idea of how is Tinkerbell responding..
As for the meter I just watched the Accu Chek Mobile device video once again and although I might be wrong but I’m still not convinced that it is easy or straightforward to use to test a cat. It looks like that it is designed for testing humans on the go with an easily controlled finger in mind to prick and not an animal’s ear.
We’ve been using the Accu Chek Performa for a year now and it is quite reliable..
Not sure if you should ask the pharmacist in Boots though, we told them in another town once that we were buying the test strips and lancets for our diabetic cat, they became funny about it and refused to sell them to us as ‘they were intended for human use..’ It was quite distressing for us as we ran out and really needed both things ASAP.. So maybe do your research beforehand..?
As for the feeding we were recommended 3-4 pouches of Sheba spread out throughout the day for our then 4.2kg cat so almost the same as Tinkerbell.
Treats are fine to give to your cat, you just have to make sure that they don’t contain added carbs or sugar.
We give HiLife freeze dried chicken breast cubes and Natures Menu pure meat chewy treats.
They made testing so much easier as most cats eventually learn that they are getting a nice reward at the end so they are willing to sit more patiently and tolerate all the poking better.
Would definitely recommend the ear for testing, watch as many YouTube videos as you can to get a better idea..
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Monica & Josie
Member Since 2017
When you test on yourself you can just prick the end of your middle finger right in the soft bit in the middle..
With kitty there’s a really good photo demonstrating the best place to pierce for a blood sampl, I’ll try to upload it for you here.
Diana&Tom
Member Since 2009
Ref getting the meter, Fiona - probably best not to say you're buying it for use on a cat. I doubt it's actually illegal for a pharmacy to sell for other than human use, but it's just very unusual for people to test their cats' blood glucose so you might get a funny look! Let us know later how that goes and what you get.
And I can't stress enough the importance of being able to test both pre-shot and at least once (ideally during the first half of the cycle)... as we've said, Caninsulin works fast and you don't want to risk too big a drop when you're still getting to grips with testing. So get the meter and practise until you're confident in its use. And also err on the side of caution, dose-wise, to start with at least.
I'd suggest having a good chat with the vet about all this, make sure he is happy for you to shoot his prescribed dose at home and discuss with him whether it would be prudent to give a lower dose (which we here would definitely suggest). Oh and ask him to show you how to inject as well.
Not trying to put you off bringing Tinkerbell home, far from it, we've all been saying she doesn't need to be at the vet, would prefer to be at home, and I'm sure you'd love to have her back. I just want you to be confident in using the meter to keep her safe as well as fully understanding the need to dose carefully.
If you haven't already, print out the beginners' guide we've mentioned - it will take you through everything you need to know and having a printed copy means it is easily accessible at any time.
Best of luck!
And I can't stress enough the importance of being able to test both pre-shot and at least once (ideally during the first half of the cycle)... as we've said, Caninsulin works fast and you don't want to risk too big a drop when you're still getting to grips with testing. So get the meter and practise until you're confident in its use. And also err on the side of caution, dose-wise, to start with at least.
I'd suggest having a good chat with the vet about all this, make sure he is happy for you to shoot his prescribed dose at home and discuss with him whether it would be prudent to give a lower dose (which we here would definitely suggest). Oh and ask him to show you how to inject as well.
Not trying to put you off bringing Tinkerbell home, far from it, we've all been saying she doesn't need to be at the vet, would prefer to be at home, and I'm sure you'd love to have her back. I just want you to be confident in using the meter to keep her safe as well as fully understanding the need to dose carefully.
If you haven't already, print out the beginners' guide we've mentioned - it will take you through everything you need to know and having a printed copy means it is easily accessible at any time.
Best of luck!
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Fiona1
Member Since 2018
Hi,
I bought an accu check performa nano today and 50 strips separately. I put the first lancet in but stupidly took it out before use so the first 6 were wasted. I then used the next one and it took me 5 tries to get a reading of myself. Got there with level 4. Will need to buy more of those. Which level should i use for a cat seeing as the ear is so thin?
Vet called today and left a voicemail. Said she was 23 this morning, 15 in the afternoon and 22 in the evening, so he has tested her 3 times today even though he said 2.
I’ve decided i am going to collect her on Friday. Im just worried about me not being here in the day to begin with, especially at the nadir. Will be off work on sat, sun and mon to take readings.
I did waste some money this morning. Joined a vet service where you can call them 24/7 and enquired about caninsulin but they wouldnt give me any advice as shes in the vets!
Thanks again for the responses and the picture.
I bought an accu check performa nano today and 50 strips separately. I put the first lancet in but stupidly took it out before use so the first 6 were wasted. I then used the next one and it took me 5 tries to get a reading of myself. Got there with level 4. Will need to buy more of those. Which level should i use for a cat seeing as the ear is so thin?
Vet called today and left a voicemail. Said she was 23 this morning, 15 in the afternoon and 22 in the evening, so he has tested her 3 times today even though he said 2.
I’ve decided i am going to collect her on Friday. Im just worried about me not being here in the day to begin with, especially at the nadir. Will be off work on sat, sun and mon to take readings.
I did waste some money this morning. Joined a vet service where you can call them 24/7 and enquired about caninsulin but they wouldnt give me any advice as shes in the vets!
Thanks again for the responses and the picture.
Kris & Teasel
Member Since 2016
Many of us end up using the lancet alone and free handing the poke. It can be easier to see where you're poking without the whole trigger mechanism. It's fairly common to end up poking right through kitty's ear but they heal very quickly.
Another hint: to avoid having your meter timing out before you get a good blood drop, insert the strip only part way, get your blood drop then push the strips all the way in just before bringing it up to the drop.
What kind of food is the vet giving her? Is it low carb wet food? Anything else can elevate BG quite a lot. Vet stress might also be an ongoing factor affecting her BG.
Diana&Tom
Member Since 2009
Well done Fiona, this is progress - you've got a meter and have discovered the need to practise! So now you have a few days to get your ducks in a row before you collect Tinkerbell - watch videos about testing cats and read, read, read about Caninsulin's action... knowledge is power as they say so the more you know and understand, the better all round.
We'll be here if you have any more questions, which I expect you will - this is just the start of your FD journey!
Diana&Tom
Member Since 2009
Hi Fiona, I'll leave others who know more about lancet sizes to answer you on that one.
Briefly on the subject of food though - we tend to say that prescription diets aren't the best. They may have certain ingredients that are useful for some conditions, but many if not most contain starch/sugars so not ideal for diabetics. You may like to check out the Hills website to see what it says - it should list ingredients. TBH you can't go wrong with a good quality off the shelf brand such as the ones you've seen on the UK food list... they tend to be higher in meat content and lower in carbs than a lot of prescription foods. Again, you might like to chat to your vet about this - if he feels that a kidney prescription food is appropriate, ask him why.
Briefly on the subject of food though - we tend to say that prescription diets aren't the best. They may have certain ingredients that are useful for some conditions, but many if not most contain starch/sugars so not ideal for diabetics. You may like to check out the Hills website to see what it says - it should list ingredients. TBH you can't go wrong with a good quality off the shelf brand such as the ones you've seen on the UK food list... they tend to be higher in meat content and lower in carbs than a lot of prescription foods. Again, you might like to chat to your vet about this - if he feels that a kidney prescription food is appropriate, ask him why.
Monica & Josie
Member Since 2017
Hi Fiona,
Glad you got the meter and started practising. We tried the Lancet pen a few times on the first day but found it a bit fiddly and tricky to see where to poke so we gave up and also use free hand single lancets.
I believe the ones you got with your Accu Chek device should be suitable for this.
I find that the 28 gauge ones are the easiest to use.
Took a photo of the ones we currently use from Boots but you can get any good quality ones online.
We use a round make-up removal cotton pad to put on top of Josie’s ear then fold it back slightly and pierce from the inside. See photo attached..
At the beginning we used a little flashlight behind her ear to see where the veins were..
It’s a bit tricky to get the blood going when you start but the more poking you do the more capillaries will form and the easier it will get.
I was struggling at the beginning to pierce kitty’s ear properly but again with practice I mastered the poking skills and Josie who hated it first became calm and more forgiving thanks to the treats.
Nowadays she is like a little stripy dream-cat, when she hears the test strip tube lid popping open, she comes and jumps up the table to sit down and waits patiently to be tested.. and gets a little kitty facial massage alongside her treat
In time you will figure out what is Tinkerbell’s favourite reward.
Might sound a bit silly but you can practise on a thick plant leaf with the cotton pad behind how to hold them
together and pierce through...
Glad you got the meter and started practising. We tried the Lancet pen a few times on the first day but found it a bit fiddly and tricky to see where to poke so we gave up and also use free hand single lancets.
I believe the ones you got with your Accu Chek device should be suitable for this.
I find that the 28 gauge ones are the easiest to use.
Took a photo of the ones we currently use from Boots but you can get any good quality ones online.
We use a round make-up removal cotton pad to put on top of Josie’s ear then fold it back slightly and pierce from the inside. See photo attached..
At the beginning we used a little flashlight behind her ear to see where the veins were..
It’s a bit tricky to get the blood going when you start but the more poking you do the more capillaries will form and the easier it will get.
I was struggling at the beginning to pierce kitty’s ear properly but again with practice I mastered the poking skills and Josie who hated it first became calm and more forgiving thanks to the treats.
Nowadays she is like a little stripy dream-cat, when she hears the test strip tube lid popping open, she comes and jumps up the table to sit down and waits patiently to be tested.. and gets a little kitty facial massage alongside her treat
In time you will figure out what is Tinkerbell’s favourite reward.
Might sound a bit silly but you can practise on a thick plant leaf with the cotton pad behind how to hold them
Attachments
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Diana&Tom
Member Since 2009
I would just add to Monica's post above - if you warm the ear a little it will help the flow of blood. If you go with the cotton wool pad idea, rinse it in warm water and then squeeze dry before you hold it to the ear. Should help. You can do the same thing with a small piece of facial wipe or similar - cut a strip and fold it into a small pad to use in the same way. You'll soon work out what suits you best. Remember the warm bit though - and the treats!
Fiona1
Member Since 2018
Just to update you all. I bought some lancets and did it free hand today to myself. Unfortunately I couldn't see the accu chek softclix on Boots' website or in their store (found on Amazon and ordered via Express delivery yesterday but haven't turned up yet), so I bought another brand. Also got kitted out with cat food. Got Natures menu, Natures menu country hunter, Leonardo, Bozita, Little Big Paws, Granatapet, Catz Fine Food, Grau, Miamor, Mister Sturzy, Sheba Fine Flakes, Gourmet Gold (only for potential low blood) and Porta 21 dry food as I wasn't sure if I should get her onto this new diet gradually and this is low carbohydrate (possibly won't use, depending on BG levels). Really great list!
Vet said whatever happens with her blood sugar levels, she will be coming home this weekend! Which I told him I completely agree with. I think I've got the hang of the blood testing via watching a lot of videos now, so I am now going to start on the videos of giving insulin. Also managed to see the 'sweet spot' on my other cats ear, although I didn't test her.
Can I just ask a few questions please:
*If I accidentally hit the vein in the ear while blood testing, is that dangerous?
*I've seen my vet give insulin by pulling the scruff of the back of her neck up. Is this the best place? Is there anywhere dangerous to hit around that area like a nerve for example? Does the skin need to be pulled up to administer the insulin?
I've watched 1 video so far for giving insulin. I've just looked on Youtube. Are there any good recommendations for videos for giving insulin?
Vet said whatever happens with her blood sugar levels, she will be coming home this weekend!
Which I told him I completely agree with. I think I've got the hang of the blood testing via watching a lot of videos now, so I am now going to start on the videos of giving insulin. Also managed to see the 'sweet spot' on my other cats ear, although I didn't test her.Can I just ask a few questions please:
*If I accidentally hit the vein in the ear while blood testing, is that dangerous?
*I've seen my vet give insulin by pulling the scruff of the back of her neck up. Is this the best place? Is there anywhere dangerous to hit around that area like a nerve for example? Does the skin need to be pulled up to administer the insulin?
I've watched 1 video so far for giving insulin. I've just looked on Youtube. Are there any good recommendations for videos for giving insulin?
Fiona1
Member Since 2018
1 other question, sorry. Ketone strips are on their way, also coming from Amazon. Is there a specific type though? Or are any ok? Also, with people who have multiple cats, I take it the only way to test is to shut the cat in a room for a night with a very thin lining of litter (separate from the other cat)?
Monica & Josie
Member Since 2017
Hi Fiona,
all sounds very promising and you’ve made such a progress already with most of the essential basics, nice one!
As for hitting the vein whilst testing, it will happen. It’s ok just be prepared that on a bad day within seconds there could be a jolly good amount of blood, especially if kitty shakes her head. Then it will go everywhere.. lol
Just remember once you tested her just grab a piece of folded tissue or the cotton wool pad you were using for the poke, fold it in half, pinch the ear and hold it firmly on the area for a few seconds.
This should stop the bleeding and prevents bruising as well.
I’ve got several Aloe Vera plants at home, I also rub a bit of fresh Aloe gel on Josie’s ears if they look particularly battered so they have a cooling effect, antibacterial and contain several healing properties.
You can also use over the counter antiseptic cream for the same reasons.
As for injecting the easiest and safest way is to pinch and pull up the skin between the shoulder blades which forms a little ‘tent’ and shoot in the middle of it. Some people practise on a satsuma to get a feel of the needle going in. They shouldn’t feel a thing..
Keep up the good prep work, you’re doing great so far!
all sounds very promising and you’ve made such a progress already with most of the essential basics, nice one!
As for hitting the vein whilst testing, it will happen. It’s ok just be prepared that on a bad day within seconds there could be a jolly good amount of blood, especially if kitty shakes her head. Then it will go everywhere.. lol
Just remember once you tested her just grab a piece of folded tissue or the cotton wool pad you were using for the poke, fold it in half, pinch the ear and hold it firmly on the area for a few seconds.
This should stop the bleeding and prevents bruising as well.
I’ve got several Aloe Vera plants at home, I also rub a bit of fresh Aloe gel on Josie’s ears if they look particularly battered so they have a cooling effect, antibacterial and contain several healing properties.
You can also use over the counter antiseptic cream for the same reasons.
As for injecting the easiest and safest way is to pinch and pull up the skin between the shoulder blades which forms a little ‘tent’ and shoot in the middle of it. Some people practise on a satsuma to get a feel of the needle going in. They shouldn’t feel a thing..
Keep up the good prep work, you’re doing great so far!
Fiona1
Member Since 2018
Hi everyone, today is the day she comes home! I am collecting her at 6.30.
Would you all recommend that i just give her sheba fine flakes to begin with? She hasn’t been having dry food at the vets. Shall i start my blood testing tonight? How long should I do it for after she has been given insulin tonight?
Just to let you all know, her blood sugar was back up to 30 yesterday morning
she is still having 5 units. Should i lower that? Because the vet said she was at 6bg 2 days ago. Ill discuss lowering with the vet too. Her bg also might drop due to stress at the vets and changing to one of the approved foods.
Would you all recommend that i just give her sheba fine flakes to begin with? She hasn’t been having dry food at the vets. Shall i start my blood testing tonight? How long should I do it for after she has been given insulin tonight?
Just to let you all know, her blood sugar was back up to 30 yesterday morning
she is still having 5 units. Should i lower that? Because the vet said she was at 6bg 2 days ago. Ill discuss lowering with the vet too. Her bg also might drop due to stress at the vets and changing to one of the approved foods.
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Monica & Josie
Member Since 2017
Morning Fiona,
I thought about it long and hard whether I should say this because although I don’t want to confuse you I feel I have to put it out there.
Others might support this or say completely the opposite but I wanted to give you my take on the case because to me this would make the most sense..
If Tinkerbell was my cat when I got her home I would start her exclusively on the low carb Sheba Fine Flakes and start her Caninsulin dose all the way back from 1unit. See how she responds monitor and increase by half unit gradually if necessary to build it up until you get the dose right.
This way it is safe, you won’t miss the right dose if you start from the very beginning and would significantly lowers risk of a hypo in mid cycle or whenever you’re out so you wouldn’t worry so much about it.
Some cats respond better to a lower dose and Tinkerbell might be one of them but you won’t know until you give it a try.
Relaxed home environment, the consistent low carb food and plenty of TLC should reduce her BG to some degree anyway.
Good luck for today and please try don’t worry and don’t panic too much. It will be a little bit overwhelming or a lot! but we’ve all been there and I can tell you that whatever happens things will be ok.
We can help you and nothing is the end of the world so don’t stress too much if you get things wrong or not sure about something.
Big hugs, hope all goes well today
Sent from Monica's iPhone SE
I thought about it long and hard whether I should say this because although I don’t want to confuse you I feel I have to put it out there.
Others might support this or say completely the opposite but I wanted to give you my take on the case because to me this would make the most sense..
If Tinkerbell was my cat when I got her home I would start her exclusively on the low carb Sheba Fine Flakes and start her Caninsulin dose all the way back from 1unit. See how she responds monitor and increase by half unit gradually if necessary to build it up until you get the dose right.
This way it is safe, you won’t miss the right dose if you start from the very beginning and would significantly lowers risk of a hypo in mid cycle or whenever you’re out so you wouldn’t worry so much about it.
Some cats respond better to a lower dose and Tinkerbell might be one of them but you won’t know until you give it a try.
Relaxed home environment, the consistent low carb food and plenty of TLC should reduce her BG to some degree anyway.
Good luck for today and please try don’t worry and don’t panic too much. It will be a little bit overwhelming or a lot! but we’ve all been there and I can tell you that whatever happens things will be ok.
We can help you and nothing is the end of the world so don’t stress too much if you get things wrong or not sure about something.
Big hugs, hope all goes well today
Sent from Monica's iPhone SE
Diana&Tom
Member Since 2009
Very pleased to hear Tinkerbell is coming home today, Fiona! OK! So...
Re the Sheba - I don't know the carb content v what the vet has been giving her, but you can check this using a calculator that @Elizabeth and Bertie can give you. The Hills does have sugars so that might be contributing to keeping her bg high, so in theory the Sheba is probably a better bet, but until you make the change we simply don't know.
It's the insulin dose that is the big question mark at the moment. That 5u or 6u looks very high for a recently diagnosed cat, but we don't know what else is at play that might be keeping the bg high and requiring that dose. Also, when you are changing to a lower-carb food, that might lower bg and therefore reduce the need for that dose. It's hard to directly contradict your vet, but most cats are started on a much lower dose - 1u twice a day - and see how they get on with that, increasing only slowly until a dose is reached that is keeping the bg in better levels for most of the day. A bg of 30 at the vet's is not good and does beg the question of whether it is too high, causing a reaction that Kris explained very well a few days ago. So dose is something you need to think very carefully about, discuss with the vet and bear in mind what you've learned here. Personally I would certainly not give 5u. I might drop to 2u and see how that goes - it might still be too much so you might decide to start from scratch at 1u.
As you know, the main thing here is to know how the insulin is working at what dose, with the aim of making it as effective as possible (ie as much as she needs to keep her bg within acceptable levels) and keeping her safe (ie not too much which could risk hypo). Unless you are very lucky, this is not a quick process. It is a fine balancing act and you need to build up more data (bg tests) to gain an awareness of how Tinkerbell *might* respond to a particular dose when she is back home.
Basically, you need to test BEFORE EVERY SHOT and also, in these early stages, at possibly significant points during the cycle as well. So that might mean two hours after the shot (+2), followed by a +4 and so on. With Caninsulin we'd expect a good drop early in the cycle so that's when you need to test to make sure she isn't dropping too much/fast. Later in the cycle we'd expect to see a steady rise. BUT it's important to point out that every cat is different and what we *expect* to see isn't necessarily a certainty.
You will need to log these numbers on a spreadsheet and link it to your signature here so that if you post with any questions, we can see at a glance what dose you've given and how Tinkerbell is responding to it. There are technical types here who can help you set up the spreadsheet quickly, and then it will be easy for you to maintain.
Sorry this is long but I've tried to cover all bases. It may seem a bit overwhelming at first but you'll soon get the hang of it. As I said recently, knowledge is power. There may be more questions so keep asking, we will do our best to help.
Good luck and above all enjoy having Tinkerbell back home!
Re the Sheba - I don't know the carb content v what the vet has been giving her, but you can check this using a calculator that @Elizabeth and Bertie can give you. The Hills does have sugars so that might be contributing to keeping her bg high, so in theory the Sheba is probably a better bet, but until you make the change we simply don't know.
It's the insulin dose that is the big question mark at the moment. That 5u or 6u looks very high for a recently diagnosed cat, but we don't know what else is at play that might be keeping the bg high and requiring that dose. Also, when you are changing to a lower-carb food, that might lower bg and therefore reduce the need for that dose. It's hard to directly contradict your vet, but most cats are started on a much lower dose - 1u twice a day - and see how they get on with that, increasing only slowly until a dose is reached that is keeping the bg in better levels for most of the day. A bg of 30 at the vet's is not good and does beg the question of whether it is too high, causing a reaction that Kris explained very well a few days ago. So dose is something you need to think very carefully about, discuss with the vet and bear in mind what you've learned here. Personally I would certainly not give 5u. I might drop to 2u and see how that goes - it might still be too much so you might decide to start from scratch at 1u.
As you know, the main thing here is to know how the insulin is working at what dose, with the aim of making it as effective as possible (ie as much as she needs to keep her bg within acceptable levels) and keeping her safe (ie not too much which could risk hypo). Unless you are very lucky, this is not a quick process. It is a fine balancing act and you need to build up more data (bg tests) to gain an awareness of how Tinkerbell *might* respond to a particular dose when she is back home.
Basically, you need to test BEFORE EVERY SHOT and also, in these early stages, at possibly significant points during the cycle as well. So that might mean two hours after the shot (+2), followed by a +4 and so on. With Caninsulin we'd expect a good drop early in the cycle so that's when you need to test to make sure she isn't dropping too much/fast. Later in the cycle we'd expect to see a steady rise. BUT it's important to point out that every cat is different and what we *expect* to see isn't necessarily a certainty.
You will need to log these numbers on a spreadsheet and link it to your signature here so that if you post with any questions, we can see at a glance what dose you've given and how Tinkerbell is responding to it. There are technical types here who can help you set up the spreadsheet quickly, and then it will be easy for you to maintain.
Sorry this is long but I've tried to cover all bases. It may seem a bit overwhelming at first but you'll soon get the hang of it. As I said recently, knowledge is power. There may be more questions so keep asking, we will do our best to help.
Good luck and above all enjoy having Tinkerbell back home!
Fiona1
Member Since 2018
Tinkerbell is home!
Vet said he gave her 6 units yesterday evening after going up to 30 yesterday. She was at 2 this afternoon! She hasnt had and wont be having insulin today.
I just tested her bg for the first time and it all went well! She was 7.1. Tried to reward her with a thrive treat but she turned her nose up. Will have to get something else.
Shes been so happy since she got back. Purring and friendly.
Vet told me to give her 5 units in the morning but think i am going to try 2.
Will start the spreadsheet shortly. My vet was very interested that ill be blood testing and asked me to update him. He sounded keen on the idea. Should i test tonight seeing as she isnt having insulin?
I am so grateful for everybodys advice! I almost had a panic attack when the forum was down earlier! Lol
Vet said he gave her 6 units yesterday evening after going up to 30 yesterday. She was at 2 this afternoon! She hasnt had and wont be having insulin today.
I just tested her bg for the first time and it all went well! She was 7.1. Tried to reward her with a thrive treat but she turned her nose up. Will have to get something else.
Shes been so happy since she got back. Purring and friendly.
Vet told me to give her 5 units in the morning but think i am going to try 2.
Will start the spreadsheet shortly. My vet was very interested that ill be blood testing and asked me to update him. He sounded keen on the idea. Should i test tonight seeing as she isnt having insulin?
I am so grateful for everybodys advice! I almost had a panic attack when the forum was down earlier! Lol
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Idjit's mom
Member Since 2018
S
So glad your fur baby is home, it's difficult when they, or we, have to be away.
Diana&Tom
Member Since 2009
Gosh - that bg of 2 is a million miles away from 30... and 7.1 this evening? I am very curious to know what has caused this sudden change... bg is often higher at the vet but not usually that much higher! So she hasn't had insulin all day - that's even better because the 7.1 is a normal number so maybe things are settling down. Or, another possibility is that her last insulin dose was high enough to be very long-lasting.
There's no need to test tonight as you're not giving insulin - she can't hypo in that case. Although I'd be interested to know if she stays in nice single figures, so maybe you could test again and see what's what then.
I would persevere with the Thrive treats - most cats have a taste for them but if Tinkerbell doesn't, do try another treat. And you don't have to waste the Thrive, you can crumble it up and sprinkle it on top of her food.
See what tomorrow brings ref dose. If she is still in single figures you certainly do not want to be giving any insulin at all.
Yes, try to get the spreadsheet set up and meanwhile celebrate this good news. And very well done for getting the testing knack so quickly!
There's no need to test tonight as you're not giving insulin - she can't hypo in that case. Although I'd be interested to know if she stays in nice single figures, so maybe you could test again and see what's what then.
I would persevere with the Thrive treats - most cats have a taste for them but if Tinkerbell doesn't, do try another treat. And you don't have to waste the Thrive, you can crumble it up and sprinkle it on top of her food.
See what tomorrow brings ref dose. If she is still in single figures you certainly do not want to be giving any insulin at all.
Yes, try to get the spreadsheet set up and meanwhile celebrate this good news. And very well done for getting the testing knack so quickly!
Diana&Tom
Member Since 2009
Fiona, just to clarify/emphasise - please be very wary of dosing tomorrow unless Tinkerbell is really high again. That bg of 2 was too low for comfort - my guess is that the high dose dropped her a bit too low and we wouldn't want you to be facing a number like that at home (I imagine the vet knew it was low but was monitoring closely). It may be, as I said just now, that a combination of factors has caused a positive change in Tinkerbell's diabetes, but this is still a very early stage and even a lowish dose now might be too much. Remember - 1u or 2u may sound tiny to us, but it may not be for the cat.
What time tomorrow morning do you plan to test? Maybe Monica and I can look in and comment then.
What time tomorrow morning do you plan to test? Maybe Monica and I can look in and comment then.
Fiona1
Member Since 2018
Yeah i wont thanks got the beginners guide print out which says dont shoot 11 or under.
Vet has been doing it at 9 but i wanted to do it earlier as ill be leaving at 7.15 1 day this week. Was thinking 7 but should i make that change gradually or not as she hasnt had insulin today?
got the beginners guide print out which says dont shoot 11 or under.Vet has been doing it at 9 but i wanted to do it earlier as ill be leaving at 7.15 1 day this week. Was thinking 7 but should i make that change gradually or not as she hasnt had insulin today?
Diana&Tom
Member Since 2009
It doesn't really matter if you test (and possibly shoot) at 7am tomorrow, as it will be longer than the usual 12 hours since the last Caninsulin shot (in other words, the last dose should be out of her system so should be safe to shoot IF necessary). At this point I'm not sure what to suggest ref dose as it will depend so much on the bg number you get... def no shot at 11 or under, but the dilemma is what to shoot if above that... if only slightly above, you could give a token dose, say 0.5u; if well into the teens or higher you could probably give a little more, maybe go for 1u and try the "starting from scratch" approach. Hmmm. I wonder if @Kris & Teasel or @Elizabeth and Bertie have any suggestions?Yeah i wont thanks
Vet has been doing it at 9 but i wanted to do it earlier as ill be leaving at 7.15 1 day this week. Was thinking 7 but should i make that change gradually or not as she hasnt had insulin today?
Diana&Tom
Member Since 2009
Oh bless her! She's gorgeous! I'm sure she's sooooo pleased to be home.
Fiona1
Member Since 2018
Just did a reading just now and it was 9. She hasnt eaten since this morning. Gone to the bowl a few times, sniffed it and walked off. Must be used to the hills. Vet gave me the rest of the box. Should i give her any or just stick with sheba fine flakes for now? She liked this before she went in.
Kris & Teasel
Member Since 2016
Your earlier post said you were going to try 2 units. Good call. The 5+ unit dose your vet recommended seems far too high. Is that 2 u what you did this evening? If so, how long since the shot had it been when you got this test result? Try hard to get her to eat. Sprinkle dry parmesan cheese on her Sheba food or try adding tuna water, etc.
Kris & Teasel
Member Since 2016
OK. It's obvious, then, that 6 u is far too high. If she's at 9 for her BG now and hasn't had insulin in 24 hours that's further proof of that dose being far too high. I suggest no insulin tonight, try hard to get her to eat and get one more test before you go to bed. Post here in the morning with her BG test result.
Kris & Teasel
Member Since 2016
Excellent! Try what I suggested in my post #85 above.
Fiona1
Member Since 2018
Thanks will do
Monica & Josie
Member Since 2017
Hi Fiona,
Pleased to hear she’s at home and happy, also that your testings are going well.
Very interesting bg numbers, although must say not totally unexpected.
Tinkerbell could be one of those cats whose blood sugar can be be managed and kept under control just by a low carb diet itself. But maybe not.
Regular testing is key and time will tell..
Glad you found something that she’s happy to eat now, maybe try to stick with that brand for a little while if you can.
Btw my cat couldn’t care less about Thrive treats either so I guess it’s just not for everyone. Had to bin it at the end..
6u is far too high, pleased you’re planning to reduce it. A BG reading of 2 is way too low as well, maybe with the lower dose you will get more balamced numbers..
Very sweet pic, hope she will settle back in all alright.
Pleased to hear she’s at home and happy, also that your testings are going well.
Very interesting bg numbers, although must say not totally unexpected.
Tinkerbell could be one of those cats whose blood sugar can be be managed and kept under control just by a low carb diet itself. But maybe not.
Regular testing is key and time will tell..
Glad you found something that she’s happy to eat now, maybe try to stick with that brand for a little while if you can.
Btw my cat couldn’t care less about Thrive treats either so I guess it’s just not for everyone. Had to bin it at the end..
6u is far too high, pleased you’re planning to reduce it. A BG reading of 2 is way too low as well, maybe with the lower dose you will get more balamced numbers..
Very sweet pic, hope she will settle back in all alright.
Kris & Teasel
Member Since 2016
This means she needs some insulin but likely a much lower dose. Leave her alone until tomorrow AM and test before her breakfast. It's best if she has no food for at least two hours prior to this test. The number then should give a clue as to a dose to try. Post her AM test number here. I won't be up yet so I think that if she's above 11 (no matter how high) try 2 u. It'll take a few days to know if this is in the broad "good dose range".Thanks
She growled this time as i was holding her
Fiona1
Member Since 2018
Morning all. She is 20.1 this morning. Food taken away 2 hours ago. Gave her little big paws again just now and she is eating. Not eaten much of it though.
Update: now she has eaten a little bit of natures menu country hunter.
Not a big amount but she doesnt tend to eat loads in 1 go
Update: now she has eaten a little bit of natures menu country hunter.
Not a big amount but she doesnt tend to eat loads in 1 go
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Diana&Tom
Member Since 2009
I think you'll be ok to give 2u but if you're around today to test every couple of hours that would be great. Post here when you can so anyone looking in can see updates and comment if necessary. Before you set up your spreadsheet to show data, please note your numbers like this:
AMPS (morning pre shot) - xx (bg number) / x units given
+2 - xx
+ 4 - xx
+6 - xx
+8 - xx
+10 - xx
PMPS (evening pre shot) - xx / x units given
These results would constitute a curve and allows us to see at a glance how a particular dose is working.
Elizabeth and Bertie
Member Since 2010
You're doing great, Fiona. 
It does indeed look like the dose was too high. And it may take a few days for the numbers to properly settle out as Tinkerbell's body settles down from her blood glucose levels bouncing around.
Do be kind and patient with yourself. You're doing a great job!
((((Reassuring hug))))
I know it can be upsetting when a kitty reacts to being tested. But don't worry, they are incredibly forgiving (bless them!). And as you both get more used to the testing process it will get a whole lot easier.Thanks
She growled this time as i was holding her
It does indeed look like the dose was too high. And it may take a few days for the numbers to properly settle out as Tinkerbell's body settles down from her blood glucose levels bouncing around.
Do be kind and patient with yourself. You're doing a great job!
((((Reassuring hug))))
Monica & Josie
Member Since 2017
Morning Fiona,
20.1 is still not bad considering she had no insulin the day before.
Did you go with the 2u dose?
How did you find injecting?
Yes try to do the testing every 2 hours for a curve but if kitty is getting very agitated or growling at you don’t worry and don’t force it too much, just try to do as many as you can between the essential A.M. and PM ones
20.1 is still not bad considering she had no insulin the day before.
Did you go with the 2u dose?
How did you find injecting?
Yes try to do the testing every 2 hours for a curve but if kitty is getting very agitated or growling at you don’t worry and don’t force it too much, just try to do as many as you can between the essential A.M. and PM ones
Diana&Tom
Member Since 2009
If the area seems wet it was probably what's called a fur shot, Fiona - easily done. Correct decision to not shoot again as some of the insulin might have been injected. Always err on the side of caution when giving insulin - it is a powerful substance. This will all get easier as you go along - it's surprising how quickly it all seems second nature!I did do 2u but i just wasnt sure if it went in. It seemed wet around the area
Thank you for all your comments
Monica & Josie
Member Since 2017
You can usually feel it going in as you need to push through the skin and that gives a little resistance.I did do 2u but i just wasnt sure if it went in. It seemed wet around the area
Thank you for all your comments
Other way you can check is squirt a little drop of the insulin onto your index fingertip, rub it together with your thumb and smell it. Insulin has a very particular smell.
This way if you’re not sure next and see Tinkerbell’s fur a bit wet just rub your finger onto the wet patch and smell it.
It usually helps us to see whether it went in or not. Furshots can and will happen. One thing is very important, do not give a second shot if you are unsure.
Well done for injecting in spite of your fears!
Elizabeth and Bertie
Member Since 2010
Fiona @Fiona1 ,
As Monica says above, if Tinkerbell is agitated or growling, don't stress too much about testing every two hours throughout the cycle.
In fact, with Caninsulin, the things you most need to know will usually happen in the first half of the insulin cycle.
When doing a Caninsulin 'curve' it can actually be helpful to test hourly initially, until you are past the peak (lowest blood glucose) of the cycle and the blood glucose is beginning to rise. After that testing isn't so important, unless you want/need to know how fast the blood glucose is rising.
Many cats will have the lowest blood glucose at around 4.5 hours after the shot. But it could be earlier or later. (On FDMB some cats have had 'nadirs' as early as +3 and as late as +7.)
Caninsulin can start acting quite quickly. And it can drop the blood glucose steeply in some cats. If it is dropping too fast, or threatens to drop too low, it is often possible to 'steer' the blood glucose with food.
For more info see:
Beginner's Guide to Caninsulin (Vetsulin)
Do remember to reward yourself for your efforts. Chocolate, wine, and bubble baths are longtime favourite 'human treats' here at FDMB....
Eliz
As Monica says above, if Tinkerbell is agitated or growling, don't stress too much about testing every two hours throughout the cycle.
In fact, with Caninsulin, the things you most need to know will usually happen in the first half of the insulin cycle.
When doing a Caninsulin 'curve' it can actually be helpful to test hourly initially, until you are past the peak (lowest blood glucose) of the cycle and the blood glucose is beginning to rise. After that testing isn't so important, unless you want/need to know how fast the blood glucose is rising.
Many cats will have the lowest blood glucose at around 4.5 hours after the shot. But it could be earlier or later. (On FDMB some cats have had 'nadirs' as early as +3 and as late as +7.)
Caninsulin can start acting quite quickly. And it can drop the blood glucose steeply in some cats. If it is dropping too fast, or threatens to drop too low, it is often possible to 'steer' the blood glucose with food.
For more info see:
Beginner's Guide to Caninsulin (Vetsulin)
Do remember to reward yourself for your efforts. Chocolate, wine, and bubble baths are longtime favourite 'human treats' here at FDMB....
Eliz
Kris & Teasel
Member Since 2016
Hi Fiona,
I’m very glad you had these ladies to advise you this AM. I agree that her BG wasn’t that high after a long period between shots. Don’t worry about a possible fur shot - it happens to everyone. Yes, insulin has a very strong smell that can be helpful to know if you missed. I always sniff Teasel’s fur after a shot.
The dose of 2 u might not be exactly right. You needed a reduction and it had to be a significant one. Tinker bell might need even less than that. If you’re really struggling with testing get the pre shot test and then another in the +3 to +5 hours after the shot. Do that today even if you think it was a fur shot. More tests would be better but that one would give us a general idea of her response.
I WILL get easier - promise!
I’m very glad you had these ladies to advise you this AM. I agree that her BG wasn’t that high after a long period between shots. Don’t worry about a possible fur shot - it happens to everyone. Yes, insulin has a very strong smell that can be helpful to know if you missed. I always sniff Teasel’s fur after a shot.
The dose of 2 u might not be exactly right. You needed a reduction and it had to be a significant one. Tinker bell might need even less than that. If you’re really struggling with testing get the pre shot test and then another in the +3 to +5 hours after the shot. Do that today even if you think it was a fur shot. More tests would be better but that one would give us a general idea of her response.
I WILL get easier - promise!
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