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Kate and Kloever

Kate and Kloever

Member Since 2015
My cat Kloever is a 14 year old Tuxedo that has been diagnosed with diabetes about 7 weeks ago. It's been ok. Just trying to get her regulated. I feel bad for her. I also have 2 other cats and don't really know how to only give her canned food. Any advice on ANYTHING would be greatly appreciated! So happy to have this forum available! :) THANKS!
 
Welcome to FDMB, the best place you never wanted to be.

There are 4 things you'll need to manage your kitty's diabetes:
- You - without your commitment, the following won't work.
- Low carb over the counter canned or raw diet, such as many Friskies pates. See Cat Info for more info. If already on insulin, you must be home testing before changing the diet.
- A long-lasting insulin such as ProZinc, Lantus, BCP PZI, or Levemir.
- And home blood glucose monitoring with an inexpensive human glucometer such as the WalMart Relion Confirm or Target Up and Up (the pet ones will break your budget!).
 
The few low carb dry cat foods (not recommended due to issues of hydration) are :
Evo Cat and Kitten - not the fish one (may contribute to lower urinary tract disease); at specialty pet stores, about 8% calories from carbohydrates
Young Again 0 Carb - internet sales only, in the US, pricey but allegedly they eat less so it works out cost wise. about 5% calories from carbohydrates
Stella And Chewey's freeze dried

These may be useful as transition foods while you work on getting all of them to a species appropriate diet. I feed mine Friskies pates - Turkey and Giblet, Poultry Platter, Liver and Chicken, for example. They come in 13 ounce cans which is helpful for feeding 15 cats!
 
So...would you suggest all the cats be on just canned food?? They are 15 and 11 years old. Also...where do I get the testing supplies? Idk if I can do a blood test...but possibly a urine one? I've been keeping a close relationship with my Vet! When she was diagnosed she also had a UTI...then we got her on meds and insulin...seemed to be doing GREAT! Then...peeing outside of the box again...took her back in. We've increased her insulin to 8 units 2X a day. I just want this to settle down. I'm trying so hard...but I can't have her peeing everywhere. I've been recently confining her...not a small space...but she's not free roaming. I let her out periodically so she doesn't get sad. Mentally...she's the strongest of the three. I just want her to have a good quality of life. We don't believe she has any other health issues. Thanks for taking time to help me! :)
 
Caution: No Food Changes Until You Are Home Testing For Safety! A change to low carb canned food may reduce the glucose 100-200 mg/dL and drop the insulin 1-2 Units.

Testing supplies - WalMart or Target are fine
WalMart: Confirm or Confirm Micro meter, matching test strips, lancets for alternate site testing
- same thing as the Glucocard 01 or 01 Mini
Target: Up and Up meter, matching test strips, lancets for alternate site testing

Recommended: KetoDiaStix or generic, ask at the pharmacy counter if not on shelves or purchase online. These may be used in urine testing for ketones. Ketones develop when fat is broken down. Too many ketones may indicate diabetic ketoacidosis, a potentially fatal, expensive to treat complication of diabetes.

What insulin are you using? What dose did you start at? How fast has the dose been increased That is a whopping high dose - insulin doses should be adjusted based on the nadir, the lowest glucose post-shot. Your cat may be at risk of hypoglycemia if the dose has not been correctly started and adjusted.
 
Novolin. We started at 5units 2X per day. Had her BS tested twice since. Both times were about 4 hours before the next shot. One was 246...next one was 280. She still drinks water like crazy!!! But her coat is improving!
 
What were her initial tests at the vet, before insulin?

They should have tested about 4 hours after the shot; Novolin only lasts about 8 hours in the cat, so they tested when it would be highest, not when it would be lowest.

FYI - we just had someone join last month with a cat on 15 units of Novolin. By home testing, they saved the cat from dying from too much insulin (hypoglycemia). The cat is now down around 3 units.
Kloever may need15 units ... or may be dangerously overdosed and getting ready to crash. Home testing may save her life.
 
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She was over 400 initially...
You're scaring me...she's acting totally normal. I just talked to my Vet a couple of days ago. She's parked at the water dish and urinating a ton. It went from 5units 2X per day...to 6 units 2X per day...to 7 units 2X per day..to 8 and 7...to 8 and 8.
I don't have any home testing supplies... :-(
 
Make sure there is ample food out for now. If you don't have a nearby WalMart with 24 hour access, then get the testing supplies tomorrow, asap.

When/If the glucose goes too low, compensatory hormones release any stored glucose from the liver (glycogen). This gets converted into glucose. The stored amount is finite, and so far, your cat has been able to eat enough to compensate. The stored glycogen may run out at some point, though.

Vets have a lot to try keeping up on, and realistically, can't be up to date on everything. If your vet were up to date, you would have gotten one of the insulins I mentioned above - ProZinc, Levemir, Lantus, BCP PZI.
Do not get Caninsulin/Vetsulin - it was developed for dogs, which have a slower metabolism than cats do.
 
I got the insulin that was donated by someone that lost their cat. I have lantus...he was happy with how this was working for her so he told me to keep her on it. Thank you for your help. I will watch her!
 
They should. May be behind the counter.

Your earlier post said Novolin; your previous post says Lantus.
Which insulin are you actually using? It makes a big difference as they are NOT interchangeable.
 
The donated insulin is Novolin. I have Lantus in my possession. Vet liked that Novolin was working for her. He advised me to stick with the Novolin for now.
 
Yeah, and the vet is raising the dose at a very rapid rate and you're not home testing. I am very concerned.
Its your choice, though, as to if you are willing to risk your cat's life. You would never give an infant insulin without knowing it was safe to do so, [edited to add] so we figure why would you do that to your cat?

 
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Now you're assuming poor things about me without even knowing me. Thank you for your time. Pass judgment on others from now on. Most people wouldn't even try to treat an animal with diabetes.
 
Kate, I don't think BJ was passing judgment, just trying to get across the importance of home testing. Since cats tend to hide pain or discomfort, it is difficult to know how they are feeling or where their sugar is at without testing.
 
I'm sorry you took it that way, Kate. Its just really urgent that you get started testing due to that exceptionally high dose. I don't want you to come home and find him in hypoglycemic seizures or near death.

See also my signature link Secondary Monitoring Tools for other assessments which may be helpful - dehydration checks, monitoring intake and output, etc.
 
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Welcome Kate and Kloever! Don't worry - you're not being judged, we're just concerned as that dose is HUGE for a cat without other contributing factors like IAA (insulin autoantibodies) or Acromegaly.

Testing at home where Kloever is comfortable is critical especially with your vet raising the dose so rapidly, quickly and at such large amouts. Most of us change it by .25units, not whole units at a time.

You can get human testing supplies which work fine at any pharmacy that carries diabetic supplies. Many of us use Walmart's ReliOn brand 'Confirm' or 'Micro' meter. That way you can get strips easily as needed. My first diabetic was diagnosed June 8th 4 years ago. On August 12th, if I hadn't been testing, I would have killed him by shooting a full dose into an already hypo number. That sure scared me and made me SO SO thankful I was testing! It's not hard to do, just different. We'd love to help you learn too. Some vets say human meters won't work but they do... :)

HUGS! Please let everyone here help!
 
Welcome @Kate and Kloever! I think we can all see that you're trying your very best to learn as all of us have to do and are still doing. I know that this all seems very overwhelming as I am also still learning as I go along too and am still asking questions, weeks after I joined. It's a tough road to go down and you're right. There are so many people who wouldn't bother trying to be in here, learning as you are trying to do. Please...pat yourself on the back for your efforts and your want to know more how to help your kitty! :)

Please also get to know some of us in here as all of us are concerned and so many in here have a great deal of knowledge and experience. They have helped me tremendously with their vast wealth of knowledge. Trust me...I know that you are scared as I was a mess when I first came in here and still have my days where I am panic stricken. That's where the kind members in here are wonderful in being able to calm us all down/each other down.

If I might be so bold @BJM ???
I know exactly what BJM has been trying to say and why. She is right for her concern and warning to save you a lot of heartache and Kloever's life. BJM has a lot of knowledge and because she answers so many posts every day, in spite of the fact that she no longer has need to be in here anymore except out of pure love and concern and want to help, she's here, trying to help others with issues and her vast amount of knowledge.
I will be honest....in her brevity sometimes, it *may* sound like she is a bit "gruff" (sorry BJ...just lack of better words to put it in). I too, was taken back at first by her some of her responses BUT...I have come to know her, her compassion and her knowledge and my senses have stopped stinging as I know that she has mine and Morrigan's best interests at heart. She is a healthcare professional as well so, she knows her stuff! She's really NOT judging you at all! I know it may sound/feel that way but, she's really NOT. Trust me. She gets right to the point and doesn't blather on as I will do oftentimes, driving myself and everyone else NUTS!!! :eek: :kiss: :( :woot: Now, SMILE because honestly...you are NOT being "judged" by BJM or anyone else. :bighug: It's purely out of concern that those points are being pushed as hard as they are. That's not to say that Kloever will suddenly have issues after this much time...but, more to the point that she *could* if not watched carefully. That's all. Don't get into a total panic though.

That said, I do agree with BJM that it seems confusing for us here as well to understand things at first and now that you have clarified which insulin you are using and why, it DOES seem like a hefty dosage to be on BUT...that said, your vet has given the green light on it. I also agree with BJM that Home Testing...especially, at this level of dosing, IS SO IMPORTANT!!! Not just for you and your sanity's sake....but, for all of us (so that more knowledgeable members can look at them and help) and particularly a kitty like Kloever who is on such a high dose. Honestly, it's not hard to do the home testing at all once you get used to doing it....but, it will mean that getting that meter and strips will be extremely important to do. The sooner you can get that, the better for you and kitty. I think that's the real point that BJM was trying to get across with brevity and lack of a long drawn out explanation. :)

So...please take a breath, breathe, sigh, take a drink if you need one and try to relax, knowing that all of us in here CARE and are here to help you in whatever ways that we all can. You've come to the right place...a bit of a rocky start maybe, but...NO judging, NO malice and certainly only a HUGE HUG and welcome to the group!!! :bighug::bighug::bighug:
 
Thanks everyone! I'm sorry BJM for jumping to conclusions. I just felt attacked...for lack of a better term. I never said I wasn't going to home test. My Vet actually said I could. I bought a meter and strips today and am about to use it. My Dad has had diabetes for 26 years...so I'm not exactly a novice. I've been watching her very closely.

So my question right now is...the ear right? As close to the tip as I can? Warm it up first? Hard surface beneath? What number am I looking for? It's been 12 hours since her shot this morning.
 
Warm it first, about a half an inch to an inch below the tip, towards the edge, something on the underside of the ear to keep from poking yourself. Between 50 and 120 is normal. Have you fed her yet this evening? And so glad you came back!!!

ETA: I read Louellen's post, and I agree about the numbers. Let's just see where she is at. Have you given her shot yet?
 
So glad that you're back and have taken that breath as we all have had to do on many, many occasions with our own Sugar Kitties. :) You'll get this and having a diabetic dad, you have an advantage and will get this down pat quickly :)

The ear yes. That's where most of us test...though a few members will test the paws. Most cats won't let us touch their paws and because they are in the litter/dirt (if they go outside) it's more prone to infection but, most who do it that way are fine. I'd start with the ear. :)

You can warm the ear with either gently massaging the ear towards the outside edge (the "sweet spot" where the vein runs along the outer edge) or...you can use a warm wash cloth or a sock with some dry rice, put into the microwave until just "warm" (not hot). Either way is purely preference and ease for you. Massaging as the advantage as well of bringing the blood flow to the ear edge for a better chance of a bead.

You can try putting a very THIN layer of vaseline on first as that will give a good blood bead until the ear start to bleed easier (they will get used to bleeding...really). It stops the blood from soaking into the fur or wicking up the fur so that you can't get the sample properly.

Then, once you have that all done, poke with either the lancet that came with the meter (if Kloever will accept that noise) OR...take the top off of the lancet and just "free hand it" by poking the ear yourself.

You will need something underneath the ear. Some people use cotton or tissue folded up, others prefer something hard like a small roll of tape, covered with a tissue or paper towel (you don't want to prick yourself too at the same time as many of us have done). Don't be concerned if you go through the ear as most of have done it many times.

Afterwards, try to apply some pressure by pinching lightly on the spot so that her ear won't bruise (AFTER getting the meter strip to soak up the blood).

The numbers...well, let's leave that for now and just get the test done, recording the number first on paper and later, you can learn how to put it on a spread sheet in here for others to see in your signature and just report that number back here for a more knowledgeable member to interpret. :)

Hope this helps! :)
 
ear veins.jpg
This may help you see where you want to prick.
 
So glad I checked!!! Both times at the Vet she was 246 and 280 five hours before now!!! I hope I can get the ear thing down...I don't want her to get an infection!
 
She's near normal numbers. I would stall without feeding for 30 minutes and re-test. If she is rising swiftly, and if she gets over 200 mg/dL, you might shoot half of the Novolin you normally do.
OR
You might take this opportunity to switch to Lantus, too.
A starting Lantus dose is based on the following:
How much does he weigh?
How much should he weigh?
Convert to kilos (pounds/2.2).
Multiply by 0.25
Round down to nearest 0.25 units (we eyeball 0.25 and 0.75 increments)

OR start with 0.5 to 1.0 units (Start Low, Go Slow protocol)
 
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OK, what I'm seeing is that you're fairly new to home testing and that kitty is on a high dose of a fast acting insulin. I wouldn't give insulin at this point as she's under 200. If you find she's rising rapidly later on, you could give her some insulin...though it looks like the 8 units might be a bit much for her if she's close to normal numbers after 12 hours on an insulin that doesn't usually last that long.
 
The higher numbers at the vet could very easily have been vet stress - that can add 100+ points to any reading that's taken in a vet office.
 
Thanks!! That's what I was thinking. It's almost 10pm here...should I just skip the shot? Also...she still drinks a ton of water!!!???
 
Without a spreadsheet or having ANY context whatsoever for the 131, it is hard to tell you what to dose.

Are you sticking with Novolin or using the Lantus? I have no experience with Novolin

One thing that would be SUPER helpful is if you could create a signature line, showing what Insulin you are using, the units she is getting, where you are located and what meter you are using. Also, once you get your spreadsheet up and running you will want to add that as well.

In the upper right hand side you will see your name, "Kat and Kloever", hover over that and a list of stuff will come up, click on signature and it will bring you to the area to create your signature line.....
 
No, vet stress according to one research article may raise the glucose 100-180 mg/dL.
When you have a moment, could you add a few tidbits to your signature? It will help us give you feedback without having to go look in all your past posts.

Editing your Signature

In the upper right corner of the screen, within the dark blue bar, you will see ID, Inbox, and Alerts

Click on your ID.

On the left, under Settings, Click on Signature.
This is where you will put information that helps us give you feedback.
This is where you paste the link for your spreadsheet, once it is set up.
Add any other text, such as
your name,
cat's name,
date of Dx (diagnosis)
insulin
meter
general location
any other pertinent issues like if there are any food issues, history of DKA, hepatic lipidosis, pancreatitis, allergies, IBD, etc.
Click the Save Changes button at the bottom.

Always click the Save Changes button at the bottom when you have changed anything.
 
This is my first test at home. I don't know about switching insulin...although...I have seen that Novolin is discontinued? I'm sure I'll be switching over...going to call my Vet on Monday to see.
 
No worries Rhonda. Always happy to take a look if I'm online. :) And one of the ways to learn is to ask people and then see whether or not they're thinking the same as you are! :)

If you're not going to be up much longer then yes, I'd skip. With Novolin there's no depot, so there won't be a long-term effect from a skip - she might just start out a bit higher tomorrow. And it's much safer for her to run high for one night than risk her going too low.

I can confirm the effect of vet stress on Rosa - the last time I took her to the vet (and that was only for a nail trim) she was still almost 100 points above her average for that point in her cycle 3 hours after we got home again.

If you already have Lantus and your vet agrees to let you switch, it is usually a better insulin for cats, though of course results do vary depending on the individual cat. I will admit to being biased in favor of the L insulins because Rosa did so well on Lantus.
 
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